+- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora)
+-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/Forum-Deep-Politics-Forum)
+--- Forum: JFK Assassination (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/Forum-JFK-Assassination)
+--- Thread: Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? (/Thread-Can-t-find-diagram-of-shots-to-jfk-from-conspiracy-point-of-view)
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - William Charleston - 01-09-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:Fortunately for people who use guns, all the "hammer swinging" is done in the chamber and barrel. The reason why blunt force blows transfer a high percentage of their momentum to the target, and bullets don't, is all about surface area. Bullets use a lot of their energy penetrating stuff.
You apparently fail to understand that it took ENERGY to puncture a hole in JFK's skull on entrance and to blow out a 5 inch diameter hole in the back of his skull. Where did the energy come from? Obviously from the bullet. And it was the CHANGE in kinetic energy of the bullet. People's heads don't just get holes in them without energy being used to make the hole.
Energy to blow out the holes in JFK's head:
Change in KE of the bullet entering the head to exit: = 1/2 x mass x (velocity in)**2 - 1/2 x mass x (velocity out)**2
The xrays showed some mass of the bullet was left in JFK's head but for first approximation, lets neglect that small mass because it wasn't a significant percentage of the bullet's mass. So the bullet had to slow down to transfer energy to JFK's head because we all know that for problems like this, CONSERVATION OF ENERGY IS TRUE. What that means is that the bullet had to do work to blow the hole in JFK's head and therefore, the bullet had to slow down.
CONSERVATION OF MOMENTUM is also true in problems like this.
That means: TOTAL MOMENTUM OF THE BULLET AND JFK TOGETHER IMMEDIATELY BEFORE IMPACT = TOTAL MOMENTUM OF THE BULLET AND JFK AFTER THE BULLET EXITED JFK's HEAD
Momentum = mass X velocity
Because the bullet had to slow down to transfer energy to make the holes in JFK's skull and conservation of momentum is true, it means the bullet's momentum was transferred to JFK's head and body. Because the acoustical evidence proves with a 95% probability (or better) that the bullet that hit JFK's head was fired from the right front, it means that JFK's head would be thrown backward directly away from the gunman which is exactly what we see happened.
IF you watch Doug Horne's presentation on the forgery of the Zapruder film, you'll see that Dino Brugioni says that the today's Zapruder film is different than what he saw on the Saturday night after the assassination. Dino said the original was crystal clear throughout (but today it isn't because during the time shots were fired, it transitions to an obvious forgery that only a fool would believe is original). Brugioni also says that in the Zapruder film he saw Saturday night, he saw several frames with the cloud of spray from the head shot which is radically different from what we see in the forged Zapruder film we see today.
[video=vimeo;102327635]https://vimeo.com/102327635[/video]
Statistically, it isn't possible that so many witnesses would independently give a similar description of a large hole in the back right of JFK's head if it wasn't actually there. It isn't possible for JFK's head to move backwards so fast without the bullet's momentum knocking him backwards. It isn't possible for the so many things outside of the gubermint's evidence and fixed investigations to show a single gunman
Instead of continuing to believe that a bullet blowing a large holes in JFK's head did not transfer momentum to the body, what does it all mean? In other words, why did the US government forge the Zapruder film? Why was it important enough for the US government to alter the autopsy photographs and maliciously attack witnesses who said there was a large hole in the back of JFK's head about 5 inches in diameter? ETC.
One of the main reasons Americans have been made fools of for decades is that they actually expect the presstitutes or the gubermint to tell them the correct answers. That is obviously not going to happen until WE THE PEOPLE laugh at their lies.
The JFK assassination has never been a mystery, it has always been a lie!
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 01-09-2014
What I am suggesting is, if the bullet passed thru the head from front to back and exited to the back, it carried away some of its kinetic energy, and could not have transferred 100% of its momentum to the head. The motion of the head backward contains more energy than can be added by one bullet (even at 100%). I just don't believe the quasi-medical explanation that the force was muscular spasms or anything like that (for the good and simple reason that no one seems to be able to have ever documented this effect before). The melon-jet effect by itself (which requires a bullet from the rear - but at least it has been documented) doesn't seem to add a force of sufficient magnitude, or duration, to push the head that fast or that far.
For the head to move backward so fast, something else must also have occurred. And Bob P. is fixing to tell us what that is, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Bob Prudhomme - 01-09-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:What I am suggesting is, if the bullet passed thru the head from front to back and exited to the back, it carried away some of its kinetic energy, and could not have transferred 100% of its momentum to the head. The motion of the head backward contains more energy than can be added by one bullet (even at 100%). I just don't believe the quasi-medical explanation that the force was muscular spasms or anything like that (for the good and simple reason that no one seems to be able to have ever documented this effect before). The melon-jet effect by itself (which requires a bullet from the rear - but at least it has been documented) doesn't seem to add a force of sufficient magnitude, or duration, to push the head that fast or that far.
For the head to move backward so fast, something else must also have occurred. And Bob P. is fixing to tell us what that is, hopefully sooner rather than later.
It's coming, Drew! I promise the very next post on that other thread will contain all the material I have been teasing everyone with.
In the meantime, two things we should ponder:
Does a large exit wound in the rear of JFK's head mean that a bullet, or part of a bullet, had to exit through that hole?
Did JFK actually get knocked back and to the left by the energy transferred by the arresting of the bullet, or did this transfer of energy only produce a brief recoil in that direction, and then and only then did JFK's limp form fall towards his wife, affected only by gravity?
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - William Charleston - 06-09-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:What I am suggesting is, if the bullet passed thru the head from front to back and exited to the back, it carried away some of its kinetic energy, and could not have transferred 100% of its momentum to the head. The motion of the head backward contains more energy than can be added by one bullet (even at 100%).
For the head to move backward so fast, something else must also have occurred.
There is an easy way to explain how what we see for movement in the Zapruder is physically impossible. You can start with Ken Rahn's mathematical analysis of the JFK movements seen in the Zapruder film. I have pointed out previously that Ken made one huge assumption:
Assumes that the Z-film is genuine
Obviously, this work assumes that the Zapruder film is genuine. It is ludicrous to think that it is anything else. Thompson has effectively destroyed the myth of alteration in a brilliant essay that is posted here.
And here is one of his problems:
Low mass of head
There may be a conflict between the lighter heads that these calculations support (57 lb) and the classical heads that are usually quoted (more like 10 lb, or even 15). Does this mean there is something wrong with these calculations? Not necessarily
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/Scientific_topics/Physics_of_head_shot/38-Objections.html
So Ken with his in depth mathematical review of the movements we see in the Zapruder film finds that for those movements to be possible that JFK's head must be lighter than any classical heads!!!!!!!!!
To resolve this problem, Ken does what Vince Bugliosi and many others do when faced with explaining a conflict with the big lie, he proposes a ridiculous assumption to fix the problem, JFK's head must be lighter than what the literature shows a normal head weighs. Yea, that's it, JFK's head was lighter than everyone else's! If you wade through this mess, Ken goes on to state that the shot from behind is possible with what we see in the Zapruder film but it is not possible that he was shot from the front.! See, the US government was right after all even though he had to make the ridiculous assumption that JFK's head weighed about one half of what we would expect it to weigh classically. Wake up. JFK's head did not weigh only 5-7 pounds!
And then the JFK crowd quotes Ken as saying that the shot works from behind but it is impossible the shot was fired from in front.
In other words, Ken showed JFK's head movement we see in the Z film proves the Zapruder film is forged because it had to assume JFK's head had to be lighter than possible. Duhhhhhhhhh!
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - William Charleston - 06-09-2014
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:William Charleston Wrote:[quote=Bob Prudhomme]RichardExcellent argument and, surprisingly, one that I never thought of. Yes, why would only one of the three shots produce an echo, if they were all from the same origin?WilliamI'll go even one better. Why not three shots within the .7 second period,An
I could kiss you, William, I'm so pleased to find someone on these forums that can analyze a situation for himself.
Yes, there are indeed problems for the Goobermint in tying Connally's back, wrist and thigh wounds together. In fact, looking at the medical evidence, the problem is even worse than what you think, although you are definitely on the right track.
For this reason, I have difficulty believing the thigh wound is connected to the wrist wound, although I believe, as you do, that the thigh wound was the result of a fragment, and not a whole bullet.
The thigh wound is NOT connected to the wrist wound. I have shown previously that is not true. The audio analysis shows that is not true because there is a UNIQUE scenario that must be true to explain all of the wounds. John Connally makes TWO radical movements in the Zapruder film exactly when the acoustical analysis shows shots were fired, 4.8 seconds BEFORE and 0.7 seconds AFTER JFK's head shot. In other words, Connally was wounded twice, not once.
When you look at the GIF of Connally IMMEDIATELY AFTER JFK's head shot, you see Connally thrown violently forward, you do NOT SEE Connally being pulled over into Neiley's lap as the gubermint (and Gary Mack, Vince Bugliosi, Possner and etc.) insists happened. Nellie did not pull John over until after he is thrown violently forward.
Dr. Shaw stated decades ago Connally's thigh wound was caused by a bullet fragment, NOT A BULLET. NOVA, 1988
The orderely who found the bullet on a stretcher stated the bullet was NOT found on Connally's stretcher, it was found on a stretcher not connected to the case (in other words, CE399 was planted). NOVA 1988
ETC
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 06-09-2014
Seems very unlikely to me that a separate bullet that transited merely the wrist would impart more of a momentum change in Conally's torso than even a whole bullet thru the chest could have possibly imparted. What you are trying to suggest sounds like handball players who are knocked backwards while playing because of the contact between the hand and the ball.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Bob Prudhomme - 06-09-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:Seems very unlikely to me that a separate bullet that transited merely the wrist would impart more of a momentum change in Conally's torso than even a whole bullet thru the chest could have possibly imparted. What you are trying to suggest sounds like handball players who are knocked backwards while playing because of the contact between the hand and the ball.
Drew
Although Connally did state that the shot that hit him in the back knocked him over, I agree that this shot was incapable of doing this, as the bullet did not go through his chest cavity but around it. The rib that was broken did not even suffer a direct blow but, rather, a glancing blow, although it was great enough to shatter it.
What did knock Connally over, I believe, is the same thing that knocked Nellie over and drove Greer and Kellerman forward into the dashboard following the head shot at z313. Greer slammed on the brake pedal and locked up the brakes. Without seat belts and shoulder harnesses, there was nothing to hold these people in place. By sheer coincidence, Cinnally was struck in the back at the same time and felt he was knocked over by the bullet. The fairy tale of Greer and Kellerman "ducking" at the sound of the shots is just that, an LN fairy tale. A close look at the Zapruder and Nix films shows Kellerman's head moving violently forward and, within as little time, moving violently back. What kind of a "duck" is that? When I duck, I stay down until I figure it is safe to come up again.
The real mystery is, why were JFK and Jackie not thrown forward at the same time?
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 06-09-2014
I agree that the ducking part is a myth, primarily because the sound of the head shot wouldn't have reached the limo at the same time the bullet did, and allowing for a fraction of a second to react to the noise, I think they are "ducking" too soon.
Jackie was moving pretty quickly after the shot. Perhaps she already had her feet braced against the floor.
As far as JFK is concerned, the only possibility was that his brace was preventing him from bending further at the waist. His inertia then would tend to slide his unbendable form forward in the seat. Wonder if there is any Zap evidence of that....
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Gordon Gray - 06-09-2014
.The problem with looking at the movement in the limo at the time of the headshot is that very likely frames have been excisewd at this point. The movent of Kellerman, Greer, and the Connollys, are totally consistent with the brakes being slamed on, but Jackie is not at all effected by it. I have always suspected that the shot that struck him in the back of the head drove him forward for several frames prior to his being struck in the temple from the front and subsequently driving him rear ward. These frames have been excised.
Can't find diagram of shots to jfk from conspiracy point of view? - Drew Phipps - 06-09-2014
which begs the question, why are the conspirators so smart as to remove frames and yet so stupid as to leave in the two frames of backward head snapping that have convinced 50% of people that the prevailing theory is hogwash?