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The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - John Kowalski - 21-01-2011
Charles Drago Wrote:John Kowalski Wrote:What does this discussion tells us about the state of JFK assassination research? Does it reminds us that after 47 years we still do not have a clear picture of who the initiators, planners and executors of the conspiracy were? We still do not have the names of those persons who initiated the plot and have not defined the relationships between them and those who planned and carried out Kennedy's execution.
John
John,
On numerous occasions I have made these points to assembled JFK researchers at conferences in Dallas, New York, Minnesota, and Providence.
I'd also humbly recommend that read my essay "In the Blossom of Our Sins" (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?36-quot-In-the-Blossom-of-Our-Sins-quot-An-Old-Friend-Revisited).
Charles
Charles:
I read your article, very well said.
John
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - John Kowalski - 21-01-2011
Peter Lemkin Wrote:John Kowalski Wrote:What does this discussion tells us about the state of JFK assassination research? Does it reminds us that after 47 years we still do not have a clear picture of who the initiators, planners and executors of the conspiracy were? We still do not have the names of those persons who initiated the plot and have not defined the relationships between them and those who planned and carried out Kennedy's execution.
John
The exact names [though some are known] are not as important as the forces/entities/interests/power-groups involved. I suggest, if you haven't you read JFK and the Unspeakable....the best IMO we can get to the 'who' and more important [in many ways to prevent it again and meliorate it!], the WHY!
Peter:
I would really like to see more books that focus on the conspiracy from the top down and not the bottom up. I have read JFK and the Unspeakable and it is a good start. Also read Newman's updated Oswald and the CIA that suggests that Angelton may have participated in the conspiracy. More work needs to be done there. Who are the one's that are known to have been involved?
John
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - Charles Drago - 21-01-2011
John,
Thank you for your kind words.
May I rewrite your question?
"Who was known to be involved in the conspiracy, and at which level(s)?"
The Sponsor level is most challenging to populate.
The Facilitator level is easiest to populate.
False Sponsors, derived in the main from Facilitators, are promoted by the
criminal and the criminally ignorant most every day.
The Mechanic level is over-populated.
Charles
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - Jim DiEugenio - 22-01-2011
I could not disagree more with a top down analysis.
What a top down, or Big Picture analysis does is explain WHY JFK was killed. And I think Douglass' take on that is probably the best we can get right now. And it is quite good.
But as far as figuring out who was involved and the way the plot worked, you have to work from the bottom up. After doing that, you find a paradigm that will then fit over the circumstances and evidence that you have adduced. But that model you fit the paradigm over has to be detailed, inclusive, and logical. And it must include the most crucial pieces of evidence.
Jim Garrison wrote a memorable letter to Jonathan Blackmer near the beginning of the HSCA, when Sprague was running things with Tanenabum. JG was sending Jon very valuable stuff from his files. And then he summed up the stuff he had sent him, and said words to the effect that you would never solve the JFK case by conventional investigative means. The reason being that the DPD and FBI had manipulated or faked too much of the evidence. You had to collect as much pertinent and real evidence as possible, and then begin to apply the most logical paradigms one after the other. Then you would eventually find one that matched all the circumstances and that was the one you went with.
To me, and today, things that Garrison did not know about are of the greatest interest and value in constructing a more inclusive paradigm: the Lopez Report, the Chicago Plot, Oswald's call to John Hurt the night before Ruby kills him, John Armstrong's work on the rifle and the Walker shooting, Carol Hewitt's excellent work on Ruth and Michael Paine. (How many here know that the Imperial Reflex Camera was not on the DPD inventory on Saturday night. But that Ruth Paine "found" it nine days later and gave it, not to the FBI or DPD, but to Robert Oswald since Marina was staying with him at the time.) The work of Gary Aguilar, Dave Mantik, and Doug Horne seems to me of prime importance: the photos in the Archives cannot be of Kennedy's brain, and the X rays are ersatz also. And today we can actually prove when and how CE 399 was substituted. It was by the FBI at the end of the first day.
This is all remarkable evidence. And the ARRB discovered most of it. Or was very helpful in aiding writers to close the circle on certain aspects or characters.
An author like North or Nelson who is going to ignore this treasure trove should be looked at with an arched eyebrow from the start. ANd North has now done it twice. First it was to say that the Mob killed JFK, now its to say that the Mob did it with LBJ's help. What utter malarkey.
And before we say that the MSM is building toward an LBJ did it peak for the 50th, let us look to our false friends first. If you recall, that utter goofball Nigel Turner was at work on this scenario back in 2003, with that jerk Barr McClellan. (And so was Alex Jones.) McClelan is a guy who I saw through instantly. This McCllellan crap resulted in Jones going batty in an episode on his show which Seamus captured beautifully in his long essay. You know, if JFK was not killed in the Kill Zone, LBJ was on the radio to call in Swat Teams via helicopters, to strafe the place, and then declare martial law. Yep, that is what the McClellan nuttiness has led us to. No wonder they call us kooks.
Pity the country that has to choose between the likes of Jones, Turner, Dan Rather, and ABC and Chris Mathews on the JFK case. As far as the JFK case goes, I really do not know which is the worst. But I do know this firsthand: between the unfounded LBJ hysteria of the first two, and the continual WC denial by the last three, the public stays confused and inactive, and the possibility of a reopening remains off the monitor. Because the net sum of the above does not allow for any actionable evidence to empower people.
And that is the real sin of the likes of Nelson and North and now perhaps Farrell. Who are supposed to be in our camp. I want no part of them. They are in Alex Jones country with the likes of John Hankey.
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - Charles Drago - 22-01-2011
I could not disagree more with a forced, false choice between analyses.
Jim, we have the resources to handle both simultaneously.
I've advocated a bottom-up approach for years, and I've taken a great deal of grief for what others have termed by wasted attention on the Mechanics level of the plot.
We must reverse-engineer what happened in DP if we are to have any hope of knowing why it happened and who made it happen. Such a process by definition begins with an appreciation of the most accessible components of the plot.
SIMULTANEOUSLY we can and we must keep pressure and light on the entire hierarchical structure of the plot to the degrees that we can identify and isolate its components.
It is one thing for the Bugliosis of the world to attack from another camp. It is another phenomenon entirely when the likes of this despicable Nelson character attempt to strike us from behind.
This is war, good people. And while like Mr. Douglass I cast out violence as a means to combat violence, I nonetheless admonish all of good intentions to base their actions vis a vis this case on the realization that we are fighting for our lives.
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - Jim DiEugenio - 22-01-2011
Charles, I think you are missing my point.
I am against any theory or writer WHO BEGINS WITH THE CASE SOLVED. Which is what I think Nelson did. Which is what Blakey did. Which is what North does.
That does not work at all. It will never convince anyone.
What you have to do is to accumulate enough evidence and testimony and circumstances that arrange a plot. Then you fit the paradigm over it. That is what I said, quoting Garrison.
The paradigm that fits the most seamlessly over the most circumstances is the one that is correct. So I was working from both ends, but only after doing the ground level investigative work initially. If you do not do that, then your paradigm is worthless, like Blakey's. See, he began with the people who he said did it, the Mob. He then tried to fit it all in afterwards. It did not work. Although that did not stop Waldron from running with it to even nuttier heights.
In fact, I actually sketched my paradigm in Part Five of my Bugliosi series.
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - Jack White - 22-01-2011
Top down OR bottom up...this is all just talk UNLESS someone
NAMES names and offers proof. Nobody has done that yet.
I have read UNSPEAKABLE and it is provides a wonderful take
on the situation, especially background on meanings behind events
and why they are important.
But unless I missed it, it does not name names.
In studying the case, ALL of the evidence available has to be followed
UPWARD, to see where it leads. The people AT THE TOP just were
very careful to leave NO TRAIL DOWNWARD from themselves.
In my opinion, it is a futile model to separate SPONSORS from CONSPIRATORS,
because many involved were both.
In my opinion, the words FALSE SPONSOR identifies ONLY persons or groups
which clearly WERE NOT BEHIND THE PLOT...THE MAFIA...THE RUSSIANS...
THE CUBANS...THE CIA...THE SECRET SERVICE...THE FBI...THE MILITARY...
RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS, or representative of those named. LEE HARVEY
OSWALD was a FALSE SPONSOR because he was innocent of planning and
carrying out the execution.
In my opinion, FALSE SPONSORS like Castro, Oswald, Kruschev, Giancana,
et al are exonerated. Thus it is wrong to call LBJ a false sponsor, because
he was NOT innocent. He was a conspirator. The level of his "sponsorship"
has not been resolved. Many were sponsors, conspirators, facilitators,
mechanics, etc. without knowing others involved. Some were BOTH conspirators
and facilitators and some were both sponsors and conspirators. There was no
official flow chart, and no official assignments.
The plot had NO ORGANIZATION CHART or CHAIN OF COMMAND...NO CEO.
It was compartmentalized on a need to know basis. It was ad hoc and loosely
organized. Various individuals did not know how they fit into the group, but
only did their part.
If you insist of a single entity as THE sponsor, it was the Internationalist
Globalist folks that call themselves THE NEW WORLD ORDER, unofficially
headed by David Rockefeller and his henchmen Kissinger, Bryznski, Dulles.
But they did not draw up an elaborate plan...just a simple word here or a
wink there to the necessary people...nothing that left a trail. Names? There
are some. Where are yours?
When I first met Mary Ferrell in 1975, she told me who was behind the plot,
but I did not understand it then. Mary said, IT WAS THE BILDEBERGERS BEHIND
IT. I had no idea what a Bildeberger was, and she did not explain. Over the
years I learned what a Bildeberger is. And now I know that Mary was right...
as she usually was.
Jack
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - Jim DiEugenio - 22-01-2011
This is unfair Jack. Douglass does go after certain people as plotters. What he does with Ruth Paine is quite good. What he does with Angleton is good.
Now here is a short version of my paradigm:
"As the reader can see, in spite of Bugliosi's persistent denials, we have clearly connected Ferrie, Oswald, Banister and Shaw. And beyond that, here and in Part Two of this series, we have shown how they are all connected to the CIA. (Ferrie himself admitted he was involved in Operation Mongoose. And he trained Bay of Pigs participants at a camp supervised by David Phillips. Davy pgs 28, 31) Finally, we have seen how, on the outside of their activities, lurk CIA mid-level managers like Hunt and Phillips. This is anathema for Reclaiming History of course. Because as I have noted in Part 3 of the series, Phillips-and to a lesser extent Hunt-are also involved with Oswald in Mexico City. (Journalist Tad Szulc wrote that Hunt was at the CIA's Mexico City station right before Oswald, or whoever was impersonating him, was there. Destiny Betrayed p. 383) Further, Phillips confessed to his brother as he was dying that he was in Dallas the day of the assassination. We have this through his brother's son, Shawn Phillips. (Larry Hancock, Someone Would Have Talked, p. 182) Finally, James Angleton prepared a memorandum attempting to supply Howard Hunt with a cover story for him also being in Dallas that day. (The Assassinations, ed. by James DiEugenio and Lisa Pease, p. 195)
In light of all the above, its clear why Bugliosi is in full denial overdrive. Because by persons, actions, and locations i.e. from New Orleans to Mexico City to Dallas, you can now piece together the outline of a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy. And, later on, I will list it step by step."
From Part 5 a of my Bugliosi piece.
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - Jim DiEugenio - 22-01-2011
Here is my long, step by step version:
"Oswald returns from Russia to the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Local CIA station chief J. Walton Moore asks George DeMohrenschildt to befriend him. The Baron and his wife begin to file derogatory reports on Oswald with military intelligence. (Russell, p. 456) DeMohrenschildt introduces the Marxist Oswald to the conservative White Russian community. But more importantly he introduces the Oswalds to Ruth and Michael Paine.
The Oswalds move to New Orleans in April of 1963. Oswald meets up with his old CAP leader David Ferrie. Ferrie introduces him to Guy Banister. David Phillips and James McCord are running an anti-FPCC campaign for the CIA. The FBI is running one also. (John Newman, Oswald and the CIA, p. 243) Oswald gears up to be part of it from Banister's office. But he stupidly places Banister's office address on one of the pamphlets given him by Banister.
Since Oswald is not really a Marxist but an agent provocateur, his FPCC activities end up discrediting that committee. First, Oswald is arrested after an altercation with another CIA operative, Carlos Bringuier of the DRE-which according to Howard Hunt, is also under the wing of Phillips. And further, in a radio debate with Ed Butler and Bringuier, Oswald is also unmasked as a former defector to the Soviet Union. Because of his little street theater antics, there are photos and even films, a court record, and a recorded debate about him now.
This assignment complete, Oswald is next seen in the Clinton-Jackson area about ninety minutes north of New Orleans. Told to continue his Marxist smear tactics against CORE, he is also advised by Ferrie and Clay Shaw to put in an application at the Jackson State hospital. This part of the plot goes awry since no one anticipated the size of the voter registration drive.
After this, Ruth Paine comes down from visiting her CIA employed sister outside of Langley and picks up Marina. This will separate the Oswalds at the time of the assassination. Oswald then leaves New Orleans on a strange trip to Mexico City.
Oswald, or an imposter, visits both the Cuban and Soviet consulates in Mexico City. He makes an indelible impression by trying to get visas to both Russia and Cuba. But he is totally unprepared with his paperwork to do either. He creates an image of a dissatisfied, almost neurotic malcontent. But although the CIA says this is Oswald, Anne Goodpasture deliberately sends a picture of a man who is clearly not him to CIA HQ. Further, on at least one of the audiotapes recorded at the Cuban consulate, the FBI confirms Oswald's voice is impersonated. Since this would expose the conspiracy, the tapes disappear. Further, no photo of Oswald going into either consulate is ever produced. Finally, Oswald's files on this trip are segregated at CIA HQ so that only James Angleton has complete control over them.
Oswald returns to the Dallas-Fort worth area. He rents a room away from his wife who is now living with the Paines. Oswald starts looking for a job. A good job offer comes in as a cargo handler at a local airport. Ruth Paine does not tell him about this call. (James Douglass, JFK and the Unspeakable, p. 172) Instead, through friends of hers, she helps him get a lower paying position at the Texas School Book Depository.
On the day of the assassination, Oswald drives to work with Wesley Frazier. Oswald reportedly said he carried a lunch bag to work that day. But Frazier says it was a much longer bag. Yet, the man who first saw Oswald enter the TSBD, Jack Dougherty, recalled Oswald with no such long bag. (WC Vol. 6, p. 377) No one else saw Oswald carrying it either. (Sylvia Meagher, Accessories After the Fact, p. 58)
Kennedy is murdered at 12:30 PM. Oswald is almost undoubtedly on the first floor at the time. Although Policeman Marion Baker later states that he confronted Oswald at the second floor soda machine, he wrote an affidavit on 11/22/63 with no mention of Oswald. He said he stopped a man in a brown jacket on the third or fourth floor. (Numbers 8 and 9, Frazier's dubious testimony about the bag, and Baker's first day report, will be discussed in Part 6 , where I measure Bugliosi's glowing review of the performance of the Dallas Police.)
Thinking there will be no more work that day, Oswald leaves the scene. He goes home, picks up his handgun and walks to the Texas Theater. He sneaks in without paying. Someone sees him do this, and the police are called. Oswald is apprehended.
That afternoon, the back-story about Oswald in Russia and his FPCC campaign in New Orleans cascades through the media, and the portrait of a disaffected Marxist is painted in the pubic mind. That night, Jack Martin taunts Guy Banister about the things that happened in his office that summer with Oswald. Banister explodes and pistol-whips him. (Davy, p. 1) That evening, at Bethesda, the military severely curtails the autopsy so that no one will ever know the true circumstances of how Kennedy was killed. Also, the FBI switches the bullet found at Parkland Hospital to fit the second rifle found at the TSBD, a Mannlicher Carcano.
On November 23rd, not realizing his small role in the plot, Shaw/Bertrand calls Dean Andrews to go to Dallas to defend Oswald. Also on that day, the CIA sends information to LBJ that Oswald was meeting in Mexico City with the head of KGB assassination plots in the Western Hemisphere. This information freezes any real investigation of Oswald since it may lead to World War III. That night, Oswald tries to make a phone call to Raleigh, North Carolina to a man named John Hurt, a former military intelligence officer. The call is deliberately not put through by the Secret Service. The next day, Jack Ruby murders Oswald.
On 11/24 David Ferrie begins to look for any connection between himself and Oswald: library cards or CAP pictures depicting the two. On this day, Johnson calls his first meeting on Vietnam. He makes it clear he is reversing Kennedy's policy. His aim is to win the war. (John Newman, JFK and Vietnam, p. 442)
Frightened by Johnson's warning to Earl Warren about World War III, the Commission does not do any real investigation. Ruth and Michael Paine, along with an intimidated Marina Oswald, become the chief witnesses against Oswald. It is Ruth who eventually produces the Imperial Reflex camera allegedly used to take photos of the Walker house and the backyard photos of Oswald by Marina. This camera was not found by the Dallas Police in either of their two searches of the Paine residence. And none of the cameras they did find that day could have taken the photos. Further, the Imperial is a camera that Marina did not know how to operate. Ruth and Michael also helped make Oswald's Minox spy camera disappear, by claiming it was theirs. It was Ruth Paine who first found a book with a note by Oswald (without his fingerprints on it) describing what Marina should do if he gets in trouble with the law. Ruth surfaced this on November 30th, one day after the first report that Oswald may have been involved in the Walker shooting.
This plot outline is pretty much demonstrable today. And it is not that difficult to comprehend. Which is why Bugliosi does everything he can to obfuscate it."
From the end of part 5 b of my Bugliosi piece. I guess you didn't read it Jack.
The lbj false sponsorship operation to continue - Jim DiEugenio - 22-01-2011
Jack, this is from the end of my Part Ten on Bugliosi. I compare how the power elite worked in the JFK case with Iran Contra.
"In the real world, it doesn't work like this. Power groups do not operate in complete isolation from each other. They intersect each other at many points. Of course, from their perspective, normal middle-class people do not see it. They can't. And the MSM does not tell us about it, since part of their function is to keep us in the dark about how the Power Elite actually operates. But every once in a while something extraordinary happens and the media can't completely hide the way the world really works.
One such incident occurred on October 5, 1986 in Nicaragua. On that day, pilot Eugene Hasenfusa former Marinewas flying a C-123 cargo plane while delivering supplies to the Contras. A young Sandinista soldier shot the plane down with a shoulder launched rocket. Hasenfus disobeyed orders by wearing a parachute. The Sandinistas captured him alive. He had a black book on him with a list of phone numbers that connected him to Ilopango air base in El Salvador. That base was run by infamous CIA officer Felix Rodriguez. Thus began the unraveling of a huge conspiracy that included the importation and sale of cocaine, illegal money to a secret army, illegal arms shipments to our alleged enemy Iran, and hostage selling. The giant conspiracy included the CIA, President Reagan, VicePresident Bush, the National Security Council, a wealthy class of multi-millionaire donors, the Secretary of Defense, the military, the Secretary of State, and the Mossad. It was a massive criminal enterprise supposedly run by a lowly Lt. Colonel named Oliver North. But we later learned that this was just a pre-planned cover story and that the upper-level conspirators had designed it that way. An honest prosecutor named Laurence Walsh indicted 14 of the plotters. But as one of his last acts as president, George H. W. Bush pardoned some of his fellow conspirators. So the truth is, we will never know the real extent of this spiraling, multi-leveled plot.
But the point is, this is the way that the Power Elite works. Centers of power are not separated from each other. They live next door to each other and work together. In the Iran/Contra affair the guy at the bottom was Hasenfus. The giveaway was the black book. In the JFK case, the guy at the bottom was Oswald. The giveaway was the Corliss Lamont flyer he stupidly stamped 544 Camp Street. That flyer has eventually unraveled a wide conspiracy. But unlike with Iran/Contra, there has been no Walsh allowed to uncover and prosecute at least some of it.
By keeping these groups artificially isolated, Bugliosi clouds our view of where the evidence leads and what really happened. What most observers believe today is that the conspiracy before the fact was run by the Agency with aid from the Cuban exiles. The exiles were eager to help since they despised Kennedy for the Bay of Pigs and his refusal to invade Cuba during the Missile Crisis. After Oswald was apprehended, the CIA called in the Mob, its former partner from the Castro plots: Enter Ruby, exit Oswald. Lyndon Johnson and his friend J. Edgar Hoover had no difficulty participating in the cover-up. LBJ was now safe from being kicked off the ticket and possibly indicted; Hoover was now rid of his boss, the hated Bobby Kennedy, and would cover up Oswald's FBI informant status. After being prodded by Eugene Rostow and Joe Alsop, LBJ then picked a blue-ribbon whitewash committee consisting of the likes of Allen Dulles, Jerry Ford, and John McCloy. Men he knew personally and who he knew would keep the true circumstances of what happened concealed until he was elected. With Hoover as their chief investigator, how could it be otherwise? The last touch on the whitewash was the phony information from Mexico about Oswald and what he did at the Russian and Cuban consulates, and Oswald with the KGB chief of assassinations in the Western Hemisphere. This was used to intimidate Johnson. He then used it in turn to scare the hell out of Earl Warren, whose choice put the temporary seal of respectability on his whitewash panel.
Unlike the grade school picture that Reclaiming History implies, this is the real way the Power Elite operates. It's a world the MSM hides from us. But with what has happened to this country of late, adults can now understand America for what it really is. It's not Ozzie and Harriet, and it's not heroes in white hats and villains in black. We live in a gangster state where laws are broken with impunity, since the perpetrators know that there is little chance they will ever be caught, and less, that they will be punished.
And they've known that since 1963."