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Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Jan Klimkowski - 28-01-2011
Prouty's JFK: The CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate John F Kennedy, p236:
Quote:According to Lewin, the "Special Study Group" that produced this amazing report voted to keep it under wraps, because the members of the group felt that:
"The reader may not be prepared for some of its assumptions - for instance, that most medical advances are viewed more as problems than as progress; or that poverty is necessary and desirable, public postures by politicians to the contrary notwithstanding; or that standing armies are, among other things, social-welfare institutions in exactly the same sense as are old-people's homes and mental hospitals... that the space program and the controversial antimissile missile and fallout shelter programs are understood to have the spending of money, not the advancement of of science or national defense, as their principal goals, and that military draft policies are only remotely concerned with defense."
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Adrian Mack - 29-01-2011
Very interesting. Thanks again, Jan.
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Charles Drago - 29-01-2011
The RIM reads like a Study Guide for Advanced Conspiracy Analysts.
Stroll with me beyond the limitations of the envelope and imagine ... just for a moment ...
The ultimate goal of this misdirection ... of all related misdirections ... is to keep us focused on the literal, the material.
Imagine ... we're not even on the right battlefield.
Hey, it's Friday night. The Barbaresco has its own agenda.
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Jim DiEugenio - 29-01-2011
Its pretty clear that Fletcher knew it was fictional.
But there were real attempts by Kennedy to explore the limits of disarmament. These are mentioned in the Martin Schotz book. And this may be what Prouty is referring to.
I agree that Fletcher has been attacked unfairly by the other side. This began with Anson's hit piece in Esquire in which, Stone's chief researcher Jane Rusconi, gave him a lot of material with which to 1.) go after Stone and his sources, and 2.) specifically target Fletcher. Anson then used this to further smear him with that charge that he was published in "girlie" magazines. Like the NY Times was going to print his essays. Recall, Anson also peddled that BS about Garrison and the Mob. (Which I think at one time, Rusconi actually took seriously.) Anson closed his hit piece with a naked lie, that somehow Oliver was backing away from Garrison and Prouty. Which he never did. Anson then went to the first ASK Conference with Rusconi, and he did a hit piece on it. This was his swan song in the JFK field. Which is one reason why I repeatedly attacked him in my first book.
Then came Chip Berlet, Mr. Anti Conspiracy, who used to hang out in Angleton's circles. He went after Fletcher for publishing in Freedom and Barnes Review. You know, the anti Semite smear.
The came Dave Perry and John McAdams, and the Christchurch Star episode. They have used this to discredit both Fletcher and Stone's film. I think these should be countered with specific information. Seamus can supply bullet points for the last.
See, when I was specializing in Garrison, many years ago, I collected all the Mob smears and ran them down. I discovered each one was BS sorted out and spread by his enemies. Me and Bill Davy then demolished them: me in public at COPA and him in his book. The same thing could and should be done with Fletcher.
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Greg Burnham - 29-01-2011
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Seamus can supply bullet points for the last.
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Jack White - 29-01-2011
Adrian Mack Wrote:Hey! Is this thing on?!?
Quote:In his book, Prouty goes in more detail, writing that the Group's existence "was so highly classified that there is no record, to this day, of who the men in the group were or with what sectors of the government or private life they were connected." Still, he claimed to have managed an exclusive interview with a "purported member of the Iron Mountain Special Study Group", who told Prouty he "believes that the group's mission was delineated by McNamara, William Bundy, and Dean Rusk." In 1996, Simon & Schuster reprinted the Report, with a new introduction, underlining that the book was a political satire.Link
This refers to Prouty's claims to have interviewed an unnamed member of a group that didn't exist.
I'm not trying to be an ass about it. I just want to know WTF?
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Its pretty clear that Fletcher knew it was fictional.
But there were real attempts by Kennedy to explore the limits of disarmament. These are mentioned in the Martin Schotz book. And this may be what Prouty is referring to.
I agree that Fletcher has been attacked unfairly by the other side. This began with Anson's hit piece in Esquire in which, Stone's chief researcher Jane Rusconi, gave him a lot of material with which to 1.) go after Stone and his sources, and 2.) specifically target Fletcher. Anson then used this to further smear him with that charge that he was published in "girlie" magazines. Like the NY Times was going to print his essays. Recall, Anson also peddled that BS about Garrison and the Mob. (Which I think at one time, Rusconi actually took seriously.) Anson closed his hit piece with a naked lie, that somehow Oliver was backing away from Garrison and Prouty. Which he never did. Anson then went to the first ASK Conference with Rusconi, and he did a hit piece on it. This was his swan song in the JFK field. Which is one reason why I repeatedly attacked him in my first book.
Then came Chip Berlet, Mr. Anti Conspiracy, who used to hang out in Angleton's circles. He went after Fletcher for publishing in Freedom and Barnes Review. You know, the anti Semite smear.
The came Dave Perry and John McAdams, and the Christchurch Star episode. They have used this to discredit both Fletcher and Stone's film. I think these should be countered with specific information. Seamus can supply bullet points for the last.
See, when I was specializing in Garrison, many years ago, I collected all the Mob smears and ran them down. I discovered each one was BS sorted out and spread by his enemies. Me and Bill Davy then demolished them: me in public at COPA and him in his book. The same thing could and should be done with Fletcher.
If I recall right, Anson was the mole inside of the Stone production,
and romanced Rusconi to get inside information. I am not sure whether
it was Anson, Perry, or Russo who was feeding early scripts to Weisberg,
causing Harold to make unverified false claims about the film.
Jack
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - David Guyatt - 29-01-2011
Adrian Mack Wrote:Thanks Jan.
Is this statement by Coppens not true?
Quote:Still, he claimed to have managed an exclusive interview with a "purported member of the Iron Mountain Special Study Group", who told Prouty he "believes that the group's mission was delineated by McNamara, William Bundy, and Dean Rusk."
Since I stated earlier in this thread of the deep occult roots of L Ron Hubbard, I suppose I should also mention the deep occult roots of Philip Coppens. And that some of the people he knows have very deep occult roots indeed.
This is not judgment on my part, just an acknowledgement of simply fact.
And it may be interesting to note that Churchill's term "high 'cabal'" ultimately derives from the French word "Cabale" - which in turn derives from the Medieval latin word Cabala...i.e., the "Kabbalah", which is the fundamental root of all occult work.
But then Churchill would certainly understood the deeper significance of this word.
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - David Guyatt - 29-01-2011
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Then came Chip Berlet, Mr. Anti Conspiracy, who used to hang out in Angleton's circles. He went after Fletcher for publishing in Freedom and Barnes Review. You know, the anti Semite smear.
A few years ago a well known and highly regarded researcher/writer contacted me to ask me to remove an article he had written that I had posted and which involved, to some extent, Prouty. Berlet, was on his case, he explained, and was quick to use legal means of redress (my words btw).
Obviously I removed the posted article, but I also did some checking on Berlet and was surprized to discover a number of entities that funded him directly connected to big rightist foundations.
I concluded, perhaps incorrectly, that Berlet is a gate-keeper?
I dislike Mr. Berlet.
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Jim DiEugenio - 29-01-2011
Chip Berlet is not just a gatekeeper.
He seems to me to be clearly a hit man.
If you recall, not only was he sent out to get Fletcher Prouty.
But when David Griffin made his first appearance on Democracy Now, Amy Good man had Berlet on to counter him.
Now I ask you, how much different is that from MSNBC making Donahue have opposite views on against say Michael Moore in the leadup to the Iraq War?
Very little. Berlet is the doctinaire left--or as I like to call it, the "lost left"--hit man to make sure no conspiracy fact people get on unobstructed. And therefore they insure they stay lost. He is truly one of the most loathsome entities out there. ANd the fact that Goodman had him on is one reason I have no respect for her or her show.
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Jan Klimkowski - 31-01-2011
Adrian Mack Wrote:Thanks Jan.
Is this statement by Coppens not true?
Quote:Still, he claimed to have managed an exclusive interview with a "purported member of the Iron Mountain Special Study Group", who told Prouty he "believes that the group's mission was delineated by McNamara, William Bundy, and Dean Rusk."
If Coppens is basing his statement about Prouty's view of "Iron Mountain" on the quotes I've transcribed in this thread, then in my judgement it's a misinterpretation.
Prouty clearly states that he has spoken with the author of the novel "Iron Mountain", Leonard Lewin, and suggests that the contents of the fictional Report within the novel "Iron Mountain" reflect insider elite thinking.
I find Prouty's comments entirely reasonable.
I also suspect that in JFK: The CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate John F Kennedy, Prouty may be using "Iron Mountain" as a shorthand device articulating the type of thinking that was really taking place behind closed doors.
I have no problem with that either. Indeed, it serves its purpose well, even if such as Coppens have used it as fodder to attempt to bash Prouty.
However, I am still concerned about the claims that Prouty served as a witness, through affidavit, for L Ron Hubbard - testifying to Hubbard's military and intelligence service record, and possibly character.
If this is the loyalty of a friend and fellow combatant to a friend and fellow combatant, then so be it. However, Prouty must have known the real nature of the Church of Scientology. And that remains troubling to me.
Again with the caveat that the claims of the Prouty affidavit are unproven.