Peter Lemkin Wrote:For me, what became a bit suspicious about a 'certain person' on this Forum, was when they began to attack or inject doubt into any 9-11 thread, that had as its thrust, an 'inside job' - not 19 ill-trained pilots who had been on the FBI/CIA and various foreign intel payrolls [and some of whom are still alive and well], and a man in a cave. When they first came to the Forum they only participated in 9-11 threads related to the tower collapses - with their unique theory. At that time they also professed their belief in a conspiracy different than the official one...but that slowly morphed, IMO, to a belief that the official version was only wrong in the MANNER in which the fires caused the collapses of the towers [sans nanothermite or any explosives/incendiaries] - the 'unzip effect/theory'. These slow and subtle changes of tack, rather than the endless repetition of the unzip theory, gave me pause....it still does.

So, some of us will have to agree to disagree on this.

Tony Szamboti Wrote:We are dealing with the murder of tens of thousands of people here and Orling's "we can never know" mantra is bogus and obviously designed to paralyze. He is a classic water muddier who has no real interest in discerning what actually happened and justice. He deserves to be exposed and ignored.

Magda Hassan Wrote:

Tony Szamboti Wrote:We are dealing with the murder of tens of thousands of people here and Orling's "we can never know" mantra is bogus and obviously designed to paralyze. He is a classic water muddier who has no real interest in discerning what actually happened and justice. He deserves to be exposed and ignored.

Well, Jeffrey certainly is not responsible for the murder of thousands. He may deserve to be ignored, I'm not in a position to judge not having the skills to assess engineering/structural matters, but I doubt there is any thing to expose. And I do have those skills and experience. He has a life outside of 9/11. In my personal research on Jeffrey I found him to be actively involved in professional groups who seek to use design and architecture and planning for social responsibility. They put their professional skills to work for peace, environmental protection, ecological building, social justice, and the development of healthy communities. He sounds the sort of person I'd like. So he doesn't agree with the party line on 911. Either of them.

Tony Szamboti Wrote:Oh, he is active alright, in the sense of trying to maintain confusion and preventing a real investigation of those who had access to the interiors of those buildings.

Tony Szamboti Wrote:I would like to know if anyone here would be willing to long suffer the nonsense proffered by Jeffrey Orling, and those like him, if a member of their family had been killed in those collapses, with serious evidence pointing to intentional demolition that was not further investigated.

Tony Szamboti Wrote:[quote=David Guyatt][quote=Tony Szamboti]

I certainly do not agree. I have met him several times and after observing his behavior over a period of time believe him to be an agent.

- He gained the confidence of NYC CAN and volunteered to help out with the City Council member meetings. I was there when he tried to reframe what we would say in our first meeting with a NY City Council member and director Ted Walter came to me quite annoyed and complaining about Jeffrey's insistence on certain phrasing. I had no interest in doing that and was there to support NYC CAN and their quest for a new investigation.

- He engendered the confidence of Richard Gage and worked his way onto AE911Truth's board and was in the process of reframing the organization's entire way of viewing the collapses and removing the term controlled demolition, when certain individuals caused a ruckus about him and threatened to leave if he wasn't removed.

- He came to the University of Hartford Investigate Building 7 conference where I gave a talk and sought me out trying to argue that the 8 story free fall acceleration of WTC 7 was not indicative of controlled demolition.

We are dealing with the murder of thousands of people here, and a major change in U.S. policies due to it that caused hundreds of thousands of deaths of innocents, all while there was serious evidence that the buildings were brought down via controlled demolition that has not been investigated. Orling's "we can never know" mantra is designed to paralyze the thinking of the average person and keep them from supporting a new investigation to prevent justice from being served here. At the very least he and those like him deserve to be exposed and ignored.

Magda Hassan Wrote:[Orling] has a life outside of 9/11. In my personal research on Jeffrey I found him to be actively involved in professional groups who seek to use design and architecture and planning for social responsibility. They put their professional skills to work for peace, environmental protection, ecological building, social justice, and the development of healthy communities.

Tony Szamboti Wrote:[quote=Magda Hassan][quote=Tony Szamboti]

Oh, he is active alright, in the sense of trying to maintain confusion and preventing a real investigation of those who had access to the interiors of those buildings. The debate about it is over and that desperately needs to be done based on the evidence. If Jeffrey Orling is not an agent then he is an idiot, given the type of views he espouses in light of the clear evidence for controlled demolition, and shouldn't be given consideration either way.

I would like to know if anyone here would be willing to long suffer the nonsense proffered by Jeffrey Orling, and those like him, if a member of their family had been killed in those collapses, with serious evidence pointing to intentional demolition that was not further investigated.

Tony Szamboti Wrote:Video analysis shows that WTC 7 was in free fall acceleration for the first 100 feet of its vertical drop. This is impossible in a natural collapse.