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+--- Thread: Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets (/thread-12983.html)
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Drew Phipps - 03-09-2014
Well, either Cheney is either flat wrong about a number of things, or the film is. JFK never "turns around" to look over his left.
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Bob Prudhomme - 03-09-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:Well, either Cheney is either flat wrong about a number of things, or the film is. JFK never "turns around" to look over his left.
From the Warren Commission testimony of Jesse Edward Curry, Chief of Police:
"Mr. CURRY - I said what was that, was that a firecracker, or someone said this, I don't recall whether it was me or someone else, and from the report I couldn't tell whether it was coming from the railroad yard or whether it was coming from behind but I said over the radio, I said, "Get someone up in the railroad yard and check."
And then about this time, I believe it was motorcycle Officer Chaney rode up beside of me and looking back in the rear view mirror I could see some commotion in the President's car and after this there had been two more reports, but these other two reports I could tell were coming behind instead of from the railroad yards.
Mr. RANKIN - What do you mean by reports?
Mr. CURRY - Sharp reports as a rifle or a firecracker, and looking in the rear view mirror then I could see some commotion in President Kennedy's car."
Further testimony from Chief Curry:
"Representative FORD - Did you get this order over the PA system before the second and third shots?
Mr. CURRY - I don't believe so, I am not sure. I am not positive. Because they were in pretty rapid succession. But after I noticed some commotion in the President's car and a motorcycle officer ran up aside of me and I asked him what had happened and he said shots had been fired, and I said, "Has the President been hit or has the President's party been hit? And he said, "I am sure they have."
I said, "Take us to the hospital immediately," and I got on the radio and I told them to notify Parkland Hospital to stand by for an emergency, and this is approximately, I would say, perhaps a couple of miles or so to Parkland Hospital from this, and we went to Parkland and I notified them to have them to be standing by for an emergency, and we went out there under siren escort and went into the emergency entrance."
Something peculiar is going on here, for sure.
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Herbert Blenner - 03-09-2014
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Drew Phipps Wrote:Well, either Cheney is either flat wrong about a number of things, or the film is. JFK never "turns around" to look over his left.
From the Warren Commission testimony of Jesse Edward Curry, Chief of Police:
"Mr. CURRY - I said what was that, was that a firecracker, or someone said this, I don't recall whether it was me or someone else, and from the report I couldn't tell whether it was coming from the railroad yard or whether it was coming from behind but I said over the radio, I said, "Get someone up in the railroad yard and check."
And then about this time, I believe it was motorcycle Officer Chaney rode up beside of me and looking back in the rear view mirror I could see some commotion in the President's car and after this there had been two more reports, but these other two reports I could tell were coming behind instead of from the railroad yards.
Mr. RANKIN - What do you mean by reports?
Mr. CURRY - Sharp reports as a rifle or a firecracker, and looking in the rear view mirror then I could see some commotion in President Kennedy's car."
Further testimony from Chief Curry:
"Representative FORD - Did you get this order over the PA system before the second and third shots?
Mr. CURRY - I don't believe so, I am not sure. I am not positive. Because they were in pretty rapid succession. But after I noticed some commotion in the President's car and a motorcycle officer ran up aside of me and I asked him what had happened and he said shots had been fired, and I said, "Has the President been hit or has the President's party been hit? And he said, "I am sure they have."
I said, "Take us to the hospital immediately," and I got on the radio and I told them to notify Parkland Hospital to stand by for an emergency, and this is approximately, I would say, perhaps a couple of miles or so to Parkland Hospital from this, and we went to Parkland and I notified them to have them to be standing by for an emergency, and we went out there under siren escort and went into the emergency entrance."
Something peculiar is going on here, for sure.
Immediately after ordering his men to go to the hospital Chief Curry and then Sheriff Decker sent their forces away from the TSBD and toward the west end of Dealey Plaza in response to hearing the gunfire.
http://hdblenner.com/temps/curryndecker.wav
Obviously Curry and Decker acted without foreknowledge of the official cover story.
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Bob Prudhomme - 03-09-2014
Absolutely, Herbert. No one is saying they did. At the risk of invoking a Fetzerism, though, I've always been interested in the whole story of Chaney riding his motorcycle ahead of the limo to inform Chief Curry the President had been shot.
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Drew Phipps - 03-09-2014
maybe I'm wrong, but I recall a picture from a guy on Stemmons with his family showing the limo out in front of everyone, including Curry. Its possible that Cheney caught up to Curry, where they had that leisurely and informative conversation, without passing the limo. There are several Stemmons freeway photos, that show the limo in front of Curry's car, pulling away as time passes. There are three lead motorcycles in front of the limo, but all the other motorcycles are pretty far back.
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Herbert Blenner - 03-09-2014
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Absolutely, Herbert. No one is saying they did. At the risk of invoking a Fetzerism, though, I've always been interested in the whole story of Chaney riding his motorcycle ahead of the limo to inform Chief Curry the President had been shot.
The Decker broadcast contains a loud and annoying brieftone.
http://hdblenner.com/illcheckit_files/deckerbroadcast.wav
The unchanging frequency of this tone implies that a Channel-II radio receiver and Decker's microphone were stationary when this broadcast was made about one minute after Curry ordered his men to go to Parkland Hospital.
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Bob Prudhomme - 03-09-2014
Okay, time to talk about the wounds, and to see if it is possible to tie them to the frangible bullets we discussed earlier. (I can hear everyone exhaling "Finally!!")
Just a quick observation on the frangible bullets. I believe the 6.5mm M.37 Carcano frangible/range bullets would need a slight modification to make them into any kind of lethal bullet. It would be necessary to drill through the small opening in the nose of the bullet jacket and into the solid maillechort/lead projectile in the tip to convert these frangible bullets into hollow points.
This discussion may get quite involved, and I might have to deal with only one wound per post. My old eyes get sore if I look at a computer screen for too long.
The first wound is the back wound, the one moved from 5.75" below the collar line up to the collar line. This is the wound the WC apologists steadfastly maintain exited at JFK's throat and, when it is explained to them how impossible this is, their favorite response is "Well, where did the bullet go then?" Up to this point in time, this has always been a difficult question, and the matter was further confused by Humes not dissecting the supposed track of this wound and by stating he was only able to probe this wound about an inch with his baby finger. I measured the width of my baby finger, and found it to be just shy of 3/4". As the diameter of a 6.5mm Carcano bullet is just over 1/4", Humes would have to have fingers like a little girl in order to probe this wound with a finger.
To find out where the bullet really went, we have to look at observations made by PH doctors while they were still attempting to save JFK's life.
1. JFK's trachea (windpipe) was deviated to the left. My experience and education as a part time paramedic on our town's ambulance tells me this likely means only one thing; JFK was experiencing a life threatening condition known as a "tension pneumothorax" in his right lung.
2. Dr. Marion Jenkins spoke of the deviated trachea in discussing JFK, and also spoke of "obvious signs of a pneumothorax"; presumably meaning a tension pneumothorax.
3. Chest tubes were put in, or were in the process of being put in, to JFK's right and possibly left lung, just before resuscitation attempts were abandoned.
Quickly, I will go over what a pneumothorax is, both the "tension" and "open" variety, as they are connected and an open pneumothorax can easily develop into a tension pneumothorax.
Let us say, for example, someone is shot in the upper back and the bullet goes into the lung, damaging it, and does not exit the front of the patient. You now have two compromises; the first being a hole to the atmosphere through the wall of the chest and the pleural lining, and the second a hole in the lung itself, which is now no longer an airtight inflatable bag. If left untreated, each time the patient takes a breath, air will be drawn through the entrance wound in the back and inflate the pleural cavity between the lung and the pleural lining. The lung will not inflate, and the patient stands a very good chance of asphyxiating within a few minutes. The treatment for this condition involves placing a one way valve over the wound. We have a special rubber dressing called an Asherman Chest Seal dressing as seen below:
This dressing is adhesive, and the rubber valve allows air to escape out of the pleural cavity, but does not allow air to enter. If there is no hole in the lung itself, this dressing will allow the lung to inflate normally, and keep the patient alive until a doctor can see him.
However, should there be a hole in the lung itself, and the valve on the Asherman Chest Seal dressing plugs or malfunctions, or an inexperienced care giver should seal the wound with tape, or a patient with a bullet wound in his back should be laid on his back on a metal ER table thus sealing the entrance wound, an open pneumothorax can quickly develop into a tension pneumothorax, if air building up in the pleural cavity is not allowed to escape.
When a patient inhales, the diaphragm moves downwards, increasing the volume of the space in the pleural cavity and creating a negative pressure. Atmospheric pressure, 14.7 psi at sea level, enters the nose and mouth in an attempt to fill the lungs and equalize this pressure. Should the chest cavity be sealed and the lung have a hole in it, instead of this lung inflating, air will pass through the hole in the lung and fill the space between the lung and the chest walls. When the patient exhales, the lung collapses, sealing this hole, and the air in the pleural cavity becomes trapped. With each breath, this cycle is repeated, and the volume of air in the pleural cavity grows.
Eventually, enough pressure is present on the affected side of the chest cavity to begin having an effect on the other organs in the pleural cavity, including the heart, major veins returning to the heart (superior and inferior vena cava), the opposite lung and the bronchii. The pressure is great enough to force these organs to the side away from the lung with the pneumothorax, and explains JFK's trachea (windpipe) being deviated to the left. Fatality occurs quickly, as the function of all the organs mentioned is impaired by this condition, and, without them, perfusion of the body's cells with oxygen cannot take place.
This condition is worsened when assisted ventilation is performed by first responders or ER staff, as even greater volumes and pressures can be attained in the pleural cavity when air is forced into the lungs.
The accepted treatment for a tension pneumothorax, should there be no obvious wound into the pleural cavity to apply an Asherman Chest Seal to, is decompression of the affected side of the pleural cavity. A large bore needle is inserted in the 2nd or 3rd intercostal space (space between the ribs) at a point near the mid-clavicular line (halfway down the collar bone). This will relieve the built up air pressure and remove the impairment affecting the other organs sharing the pleural cavity. Once again, a one way valve dressing, as shown above, should be applied following this procedure to prevent an open pneumothorax and still allow air to escape the pleural cavity. As the Parkland doctors were aware of a pneumothorax, but unaware of the back wound, they assumed the cause to be related to the trachea wound, and inserted bi-lateral chest tibes.
This is why chest tubes were being inserted into JFK's right lung. The story given about the chest tubes being inserted to relieve "subcutaneous emphysema" is nothing more than a fairy tale to keep the sheeple quiet. Subcutaneous emphysema is a non-life threatening condition that tends to develop following a tension pneumothorax, when trapped air under pressure makes its way to the layers of the skin, and becomes trapped as air bubbles. It is considered a cosmetic defect, and certainly not something ER doctors would be addressing while attempting to resuscitate a pulseless, non-breathing patient.
If JFK were shot with a full metal jacket 6.5mm Carcano bullet, I would expect PH doctors to be dealing with two open pneumothoraxes, one on JFK's back and one on his chest, as this bullet was more than capable of going straight through JFK and through Connally, as well, and possibly even through Kellerman. As, to the best of my knowledge, this did not occur, we can rule out the FMJ bullet, and look for something else. My prime suspect, and this will be supported by discussion of the other wounds, is a hollow point frangible bullet, as discussed earlier. As it entered JFK's right lung, fluid and semi-fluid matter would enter the hollow point, build up a great hydraulic pressure, and cause the powdered core of the frangible bullet to disintegrate into a cloud of lead powder. This cloud of lead powder would come to a stop almost instantly and wreak great damage on the right lung and blood vessels present in the lung.
Jerrol Custer was an x-ray technician at Bethesda and was present at the autopsy of JFK. In an interview given years later, he found, among many other things, two things disturbing. First, no x-rays were taken of JFK's chest before the heart and lungs were removed. Second, he and other staff were not allowed to be present when the heart and lungs were removed.
Next: The mysterious throat wound
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Bob Prudhomme - 03-09-2014
Drew Phipps Wrote:maybe I'm wrong, but I recall a picture from a guy on Stemmons with his family showing the limo out in front of everyone, including Curry. Its possible that Cheney caught up to Curry, where they had that leisurely and informative conversation, without passing the limo. There are several Stemmons freeway photos, that show the limo in front of Curry's car, pulling away as time passes. There are three lead motorcycles in front of the limo, but all the other motorcycles are pretty far back.
Both Curry and Chaney describe looking back at the limo, clearly indicating they believed Chaney to have gone ahead of the limo.
It must also be remembered that, in addition to Curry's lead car, there was also a pilot car out in front of them. Is that Curry's car or the pilot car seen being left behind by the limo? What became of the pilot car?
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Bob Prudhomme - 04-09-2014
The next wound on the list is the throat wound.
This wound was described by Dr. Perry of PH over the phone to Commander Humes as being between 3-5 mm in diameter, which would seem too small to have been made by a 6.5mm bullet. Of course, Humes was unable to measure the wound himself, as the tracheotomy incision had been made through the middle of the wound, obliterating it.
Perry was not the only PH doctor to describe this wound, though. Below is WC testimony from several of them describing the wound:
Dr. PERRY: This was situated in the lower anterior one-third of the neck, approximately 5 mm. in diameter. (3H372) Dr. CARRICO: This was probably a 4-7 mm. wound, almost in the midline, maybe a little to the right of the midline, and below the thyroid cartilage. (6H3)
DR. CARRICO: There was a small wound, 5- to 8-mm. in size, located in the lower third of the neck, below the thyroid cartilage, the Adams apple. (3H361)
Dr. PERRY: I determined only the fact that there was a wound there, roughly 5 mm. in size or so. (6H9)
Dr. JONES: The wound in the throat was probably no larger than a quarter of an inch in diameter. . . . t was a very small, smooth wound. (6H54)
Nurse HENCHLIFFE: It was just a little hole in the middle of his neck. . . . About as big around as the end of my little finger. (6H141)
Suffice it to say that Perry's estimation of wound size was inly one of many. It should also be remembered that entrance wound size is not an accurate means of estimating the diameter of the bullet that made the wound, given the elasticity of skin, and that a 6.5mm bullet has by no means been ruled out as the bullet that made the throat wound.
That being said, we are still faced with the question: If the throat wound was an entrance wound, where did the bullet go?
For an answer to this question, let us look at the anatomy of the human neck:
![[Image: head-and-neck-anatomy-pictures-580x647.jpg]](http://www.paradoja7.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/head-and-neck-anatomy-pictures-580x647.jpg)
This drawing shows us that there is an appreciable amount of tissue between the front of the neck, where the bullet entered, and the vertebrae in the rear part of the neck.
The next drawing shows the relation of the trachea (windpipe) to the vertebrae a little better.
![[Image: 118355-004-9662D2BC.jpg]](http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/55/118355-004-9662D2BC.jpg)
The thyroid cartilage is seen at the upper end of the trachea. The bullet entered just below the thyroid cartilage almost in the midline of the trachea, damaging more of the right side of the trachea.
Would there have been enough tissue between the front of the neck and the vertebrae to have made a hollow point frangible bullet disintegrate into its powder form, arresting the travel of the bullet without shattering vertebrae?
Quickly, let us go over the mechanics of a modern lethal frangible bullet with a hollow point again. As the bullet travels through soft tissue, the hollow point fills with sift matter and begins to come under enormous hydraulic pressure. This pressure is exerted on the compressed metal core of the bullet and, within two inches of entering, the compressed metal core disintegrates into a cloud of metal powder.
The greatest clue that this may have been possible in JFK's case comes from an interview done with Jerrol Custer, the x-ray technician who took the x-rays of JFK's body. He maintains one of the x-rays he made of JFK's neck has disappeared, and that it contains something very interesting. In the vicinity of the cervical vertebrae C3 and C4 are, he says, a host of bullet fragments. Unfortunately, he did not state how large these fragments are, but did allude to the fact there were enough of them to make an entire bullet. The fact they are described in great number does make it possible the fragments were very small, precisely what we would expect to see from a frangible bullet.
So, with all of this in mind, the question is, could a frangible bullet have broken up as it transited the tissue in the front aspect of JFK's neck, and completed this disintegration just before anything solid was able to smash JFK's vertebrae? Were C3 and C4 vertebrae intact, or was there damage to them? Once again, Custer does not mention this.
The two inch penetration of a frangible bullet through soft tissue is based on modern lethal frangible bullets that are the product of years of research and engineering. In 1963, such a bullet would have been a crude modification of a Carcano frangible range bullet. Is it possible it would have disintegrated earlier than a modern frangible bullet, doing so in less than the two inches of soft tissue required for the modern bullet?
What I find the most disturbing about Custer's allegations is his claim the fragments were in the vicinity of C3/C4 vertebrae. Look at this drawing below:
![[Image: neck-anatomy-580x435.png]](http://www.paradoja7.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/neck-anatomy-580x435.png)
As can be seen, C4 is level with the top of the thyroid cartilage, while C3 is slightly above the thyroid cartilage. If the bullet entered below the thyroid cartilage, and the fragments were at C3/C4, does this mean the bullet was transiting upwards through the anterior neck?
Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets - Michael Cross - 04-09-2014
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:Absolutely, Herbert. No one is saying they did. At the risk of invoking a Fetzerism, though, I've always been interested in the whole story of Chaney riding his motorcycle ahead of the limo to inform Chief Curry the President had been shot.I'm wonder if the "other" film shows Chaney riding ahead.