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+--- Thread: The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 (/thread-14411.html)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - David Josephs - 04-02-2016
I must have missed this one Chris...
Aren't the cones simply in a 3 point line back to Zapruder?
As I wrote this I stopped... for Shot #1 maybe but #3 obviously does not follow that logic...
If they are 235 and 255 the sidewalk cone is Altgens so the Street cone would be where the rear bumper would be when the front bumper hits the 255 cone ????
Again, thanks Chris - I'll be adding this analysis summary to my 3rd Article which talks about the evidence offered...
I'll make sure to run it by your first so I am saying what you are meaning
:-)
Chris Davidson Wrote:Chris Davidson Wrote:Two different distance locations via the pylons for shot#1.
chris
The pylons set out for the 1st shot appear to be at approx extant z235 (Connally shot ?) and it's curbside counterpart at approx extant z255.
If you want to place the 1st pylon, use the lane markers between the two light posts for orientation purposes.
More than likely, the distance between the shot1 pylons is probably a representation of the limo front to limo rear span, with the back bumper (street pylon) representing JFK'S position in the limo. Same as the other pylons further down the street.
chris
![[Image: Shot1A.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Shot1A.jpg)
![[Image: Shot1AA.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Shot1AA.jpg)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 05-02-2016
David quote:
"If they are 235 and 255 the sidewalk cone is Altgens so the Street cone would be where the rear bumper would be when the front bumper hits the 255 cone ????"
Very close.
21.3ft-19.6ft = 1.7ft according to WC final survey plat.
The blue lines intersecting the curb show the difference between the two.
Hope this makes sense.
chris
P.S. The WC didn't address this location, doing so would have provided 2 shots not within the allotted time to fire the rifle. imo
Hence my previous comment about the Connally shot circa 235.
![[Image: Pylon1.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Pylon1.jpg)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 05-02-2016
According to the extant zfilm and WC final plat, I determined the limo speed (z156-z166) at 13.44mph.
The overall average speed of the limo according to Shaneyfelt is 11.2 mph
13.44-2.24 =11.2mph
The entry for CE884 Z161-Z166 = a speed of 2.24mph
chris
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 05-02-2016
Since z171 is listed at Station# 3+30.1 on the WC final survey plat, same as z166 on CE884, the next speed calculation of interest is z171-z186:
15frames@20.7ft traveled
18.3/15 =1.22 x 20.7ft = 25.254ft per sec /1.47 =17.18mph
17.18mph -13.44mph(z156-z166) = 3.74mph
Speed from Z168-171 on the WC final survey plat = 3.74mph
chris
![[Image: 171-186.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/171-186.jpg)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 05-02-2016
The last calculation within the first 18 frame span z168-z186 (use previous data chart) is z185-z186.
I guess this could be considered the truest instantaneous speed.
1.5ft per frame x 18.3 =27.45ft per sec/1.47 = 18.673mph
I will use 18.68mph going forward, you'll understand why, a little later.
chris
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - David Josephs - 05-02-2016
How did they remove the wide turn from Towner & Hughes, Chris? 7 frames cannot possible remove all of it... that's only a split second
And I'm pretty sure this helps prove that Zap didn't stop and start his camera... So I get the removal of it from Zap - that's easy...
And once the film is cut, syncing the other 3 films: Nix, Muchmore (who didn't film it anyway) and Bronson gets alot easier.
I have the same feelings about Moorman. That's obviously not down where the "headshot" occurred - can you explain that image?
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 05-02-2016
David Josephs Wrote:How did they remove the wide turn from Towner & Hughes, Chris? 7 frames cannot possible remove all of it... that's only a split second
And I'm pretty sure this helps prove that Zap didn't stop and start his camera... So I get the removal of it from Zap - that's easy...
And once the film is cut, syncing the other 3 films: Nix, Muchmore (who didn't film it anyway) and Bronson gets alot easier.
I have the same feelings about Moorman. That's obviously not down where the "headshot" occurred - can you explain that image?
David,
Using this Bond-Muchmore? combo, can you describe/point out where the "headshot" location is?
I've always believed their were 2 headshots. extant313 and Altgens
chris
![[Image: BOND-MUCHMORE1.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/BOND-MUCHMORE1.jpg)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - David Josephs - 05-02-2016
Chris Davidson Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:How did they remove the wide turn from Towner & Hughes, Chris? 7 frames cannot possible remove all of it... that's only a split second
And I'm pretty sure this helps prove that Zap didn't stop and start his camera... So I get the removal of it from Zap - that's easy...
And once the film is cut, syncing the other 3 films: Nix, Muchmore (who didn't film it anyway) and Bronson gets alot easier.
I have the same feelings about Moorman. That's obviously not down where the "headshot" occurred - can you explain that image?
David,
Using this Bond-Muchmore? combo, can you describe/point out where the "headshot" location is?
I've always believed their were 2 headshots. extant313 and Altgens
chris
In relation to what Chris? Muchmore claims she did not film any shooting, Bond does not have an image of the shots
Extant 313 shows a shot to the front right of JFK's head and is matched in Nix and Muchmore and Bronson
yet for Altgens to be correct about the shot 15 feet from him it would have had to occur after extant Z345 while WCD298 putts the shot around Z375.
If the FBI believed the real evidence would never be seen, they could have simply created a shot further down to support 3 shots 3 hits and provide enough time/space for reloading and firing.
If the limo stops as so many claim then the time from 313 to 375 (62 frame / 18.3fps = 3.39 seconds) is probably very close to the stopping time or how the car inched forward slowly per BREHM:
I happen to really like this composite. As I created it it became more and more clear that WCD298 was created as a plausible explanation for what may have occurred.
The "Completely misleading picture" Redlich calls the FBI and SS reports in April 1964 which would include WCD1, WCD3 and this model was either CYA or the discovery of the FBI's method of covering up what happened.
When these men saw the Zfilm with Eisenberg at this time and read WCD298 and saw the model they had to have known immediately something was wrong. The film(s) do not support this model or its info.
One of the most blatant and amazing part of this model's presentation to the Commission is what Leo Gauthier says about the WEST survey. As I ask yet apparently was not realized by this group of America's best and brightest:
How can a survey completed in May 1964 be used to construct a model in January 1964? Because the first version of the survey for the SS was completed on Dec 5th and had a shot placed at 5+00
http://www.ctka.net/2016/JosephsFBIZ313.pdf
Mr. GAUTHIER. Our data to build this were compiled on December 2, 3, and 4. It took about5 weeks to prepare this exhibit in Washington.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you participate in theonsite tests made in Dallas?
Mr. GAUTHIER. I did.
Mr. SPECTER. Was a survey made of thescene used to record some of the results of that onsite testing?
Mr. GAUTHIER. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And by whom was the survey made?
Mr. GAUTHIER. Thesurvey was made on May 24, 1964*, by Robert H. West, countysurveyor, a licensed State land surveyor, located at 160 County Courthouse,Dallas, Tex.
(*Anyone else trying to figure out how theFBI used a May 1964 survey in preparation of a Jan 20 1964 presentation?)
When we superimpose the Dec 5 survey onto DP from 11/23/63 - complete with yellow curbs - a shot is still placed 40 feet further down Elm
Are you saying Altgens as placed at Z255? That can't be...
you must be talking about Altgens 7 right?
The Altgens which does not look like any other Altgens photo and is cropped at the upper right
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - Chris Davidson - 06-02-2016
David,
This graphic is what I have been conveying in terms of the head shots throughout this entire topic.
Do you believe someone shot footage from near where Muchmore/Bond were standing?
In other words, do you believe the Muchmore? movie/Bond? photographs were taken at the time of the assassination?
Where do you believe (Elm St.physical location) the shots occurred?
chris
![[Image: Location.jpg]](http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r25/123steamn/Location.jpg)
The SS and FBI place 4 shots in and around Z313 - just not Z313 - David Josephs - 06-02-2016
Chris Davidson Wrote:David,
This graphic is what I have been conveying in terms of the head shots throughout this entire topic.
Do you believe someone shot footage from near where Muchmore/Bond were standing?
In other words, do you believe the Muchmore? movie/Bond? photographs were taken at the time of the assassination?
Where do you believe (Elm St.physical location) the shots occurred?
chris
The $64,000 question CD....
Gotta be one of 2 things
1) the z353 extent shot as described is created to occur just beyond the time needed (times 18.3 frames) to get a third shot in... and then they conclude one shot missed due to Tague (forget marks on the north sidewalk, south manhole cover, and street up by Houston just as they complete the turn... ( I believe Hickey here is looking at the mark from that shot)
Of course the problem with that thought is Chaney as corroborated by Hargis, Sorrels, and Curry about his gunning up to the Lead car immediately and then leading the way to Parkland.
If the limo stopped as many claim - they must put a shot further down that fits the 11mph BS they were telling
since there is no other place for the FBI/SS to put another shot - with three shells they were kinda stuck.
or
2) The headshot that we know as Z313 occurs further down Elm and is somehow moved (I can't see this as viable)
Now the hard part - why do the WEST survey's put a shot within 4 feet of 5+00... From what information could WEST have concluded this other than being told by the FBI/SS?
Yet I get the impression from Tom's notes that WEST was unaware of the changes and that he simply turned the FBI 3 shot scenario into a 2 shot one as instructed. by removing this last
shot further down Elm.
Do you think it possible shot #3 in the original was purely a creation of the FBI/SS/Time/Life to explain 3 shots and there never was a shot down there?
That the entrire charade was done to remove the limo stop which implicated Greer and his buddies while Kellerman coordinates the pre-Autopsy surgery with Humes starting before 7pm?