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Grassy knoll=diversion - Seamus Coogan - 29-05-2011
Bernice Moore Wrote:Seamus Coogan Wrote:Betty Chruscielski Wrote:While I greatly admire Doug Weldon's work I do not agree with his thoughts of where the shooters would have been stationed. I believe one of the hitmen was in the back seat of the lead car.
I hear planet Kpax is calling! Talk to Robert Morrow or Jim Fetzer they might buy this crud. The real shame is you've just ruined a good thread, which incidentally, you yourself just started. :joystick:
aw Seamus, and you had been playing soooooo nicely.....:nono:anta:
Okay, that was a bit rash. But please a gunman in the backseat of the lead car!!!!!!:canabis: If its not Kpax someones seriously been smoking something rofl.
The question is then who was this dare devil shooter? I like what Zach said at least it's not that Greer BS because this idea is even a notch above that madness. Your wanting me to believe that Kellerman and Greer (in particular) sat there watching a shooter in the back seat of the lead car waving around a high calibre rifle or pistol in a moving vehicle on a descending/declining angle?
The insanity of all this is that Betty says Sorrells was lying that he could never have seen the people on the overpass. Okay, then if the car was covered how on Kpax or Bob Marley's gunga stash could Betty's 'hitman' have then taken a shot? That's not to mention the utterly hilarious notion that the lead car stopped too let the hitman out and let Sorrells in. Now we have the the 'Hitchhiker' hit.
I wish I could laugh at this sort of thing forever. But what it does is muddy legitimate questions raised about Sorrell's actual role and some potentially interesting actions of the lead car which may well be worth a look )if only for a more complete understanding of the events that day). But of course this has been examined in part by Vince Palamara and Pamela McElwain Brown who have studied the Motorcade more indepth than most. Indeed I'd like Pam if she's around to add her two cents to this. Sadly. it also ruins the credibility of what was a very interesting idea presented in this particular thread. That being of a potential diversion shot from the gnoll-which though I'm not totally in favour of I think many people here myself included was worthy of a discussion.
Also cheers Bernice for the corrections vis a vis Brasil. Sorry I cant click on the images at the mo my new version of IE is being a right troll on images. If anybody has any advice on how sort out the lack of there no right click response let me know!
Grassy knoll=diversion - Betty Chruscielski - 29-05-2011
"The question is then who was this dare devil shooter? "
I don't think we'll ever know the name of the dare devil shooter. No doubt he was the highest paid hitman of the day. Hiring a hitman is like hiring a plumber, you get what you pay for. With the combined resources of the Federal Reserve, CIA, oilmen etc. I'm sure money was no object.
"I like what Zach said at least it's not that Greer BS because this idea is even a notch above that madness. Your wanting me to believe that Kellerman and Greer (in particular) sat there watching a shooter in the back seat of the lead car waving around a high calibre rifle or pistol in a moving vehicle on descending angle? "
The witnessess at Dealey Plaza state the car stopped this would give the hitman an opportunity to shoot. You're absolutely right about Kellerman and Greer having to stay still to allow the shooter to shoot. I'm sure each respectively leaned to the outside.
"The insanity of all this is that Betty says Sorrells was lying that he could never have seen the people on the overpass. Okay, then if the car was covered how on Kpax or Bob Marley's gunga stash could Betty's 'hitman' have then taken a shot? That's not to mention the utterly hilarious notion that the lead car stopped too let the hitman out and let Sorrells in. Now we have the the 'Hitchhiker' hit."
Is there anything Sorrells doesn't lie about? He found the witness Howard Brennan who stated that Oswald stood to shoot. Later it was proven impossible for Oswald to stand and shoot. Also Howard Brennan states he looked at a lineup. I've read that this lineup probably never happened. Sorrells got Jack Ruby to pour his heart out was any of that stuff true? Sorrells went with Zapruder to develop the film and that film has been proven to be fake.
Okay, then if the car was covered how on Kpax or Bob Marley's gunga stash could Betty's 'hitman' have then taken a shot?
I don't understand this.
"Indeed I'd like Pam if she's around to add her two cents to this."
Please do.
"Sadly. it also ruins the credibility of what was a very interesting idea presented in this particular thread. That being of a potential diversion shot from the gnoll-which though I'm not totally in favour of I think many people here myself included was worthy of a discussion."
I never meant the grassy knoll was a diversion shot. I simply meant the grassy knoll was a diversion from what really happened.
Grassy knoll=diversion - Seamus Coogan - 29-05-2011
Paul Rigby masked his 'Greer shot JFK' and alteration of all the evidence insanity with some useful posts earlier on in his forum wall flower career (where's the book on Starnes by the way Paul-maybe you've become delayed by this fascinating new angle). But Betty, I seem to have 'masked' or given you yourself a bit much credit.
"I never meant the grassy knoll was a diversion shot. I simply meant the grassy knoll was a diversion from what really happened."
What really happened was in the back seat of a car wasn't it? Not someone shooting further down the fence line but someone 'doing it' in the back seat of a fully covered vehicle! Im sorry for the sexual inference but well this whole thing Betty is well and truly.....................I'll leave the last word up to your already impressive imagination.
Yes Sorrell's told some big porkies. These are verifiable. This is just, well, I really don't know what this is.
That's it for me on this topic. On a bright note you could have a buddy in Paul. Look him up I'm sure he'd appreiciate the company as would Doug Horne! Oh and give Kangas and Morningstar a call and tell them I sent you! Like I've said your a good person maybe you'll at least teach them some better manners.
Grassy knoll=diversion - Paul Rigby - 29-05-2011
Seamus Coogan Wrote:That's it for me on this topic. On a bright note you could have a buddy in Paul. Look him up I'm sure he'd appreiciate the company as would Doug Horne!
As literate as ever, eh, Stevie? Perhaps you could get Jimbo to do the typing in future - he's good at that sort of thing. Just ask Farley.
"The third shot he heard might have been a Secret Service man returning the fire, he said,"
"Sen. Yarborough Terms It 'A Deed of Horror,'" Chicago Sun-Times, Saturday, 23 November 1963, p.14
Grassy knoll=diversion - Bernice Moore - 30-05-2011
Bernice I was trying lol!!!!........Seamus, i realised you were, and then you all of a sudden you blew it by throwing in names and digs, i thought ''the devil made him do it''..it hit me so funny, thanks for the chuckle, i just had to say something, it was like, all of a sudden the bottom fell out..take care..imo also, there was no shooter in the back of the lead car, but it was something different and made a good thread, some information and others opinions, were posted, and that's always a positive, give the girl a break, there is so much.....thanks...b
Grassy knoll=diversion - Zach Robertson - 30-05-2011
Hi Betty,
Although we disagree about the lead car, I think you are spot on with your thought the grassy knoll was a diversion. Not necessarily a shot per se, but a clever diversion to get people looking one way while the kill shot comes from the front.
I still believe that the area where the fence meets the overpass needs looked at further as a possible location for a sniper.
Betty, if you have not done so, I would suggest reading Larry Hancock's Someone Would Have Talked. In my opinion it is by far the best book on the subject; Larry has the best handle on what went down in Dallas.
Thanks for starting this thread and creating a fine discussion.
Zach
Grassy knoll=diversion - Albert Doyle - 30-05-2011
Seamus Coogan Wrote:I'm open to it in some ways but why am I not cool about putting a cardboard role up against a camera imitating a scope to me and using the Altgens photo as evidence (when it was on a totally lower elevation) is just plain stoopid. As for 180 degrees shooting archs and sniper angles where did you get that? Are you also saying the fatal head shot came from the Southside as well Al? What CIA hitman (often free lance or hired ie they're not quite as in-house as people think) would wanna take shot through a wind sheild with a low cal rifle? Nope I'm sticking with more or less to the Elm side of the Plaza.
I've always held the position that if a bullet went through the windshield there would be no doubt about it. That there would be a clear, fully-blown and visible bullet hole for all to see that would leave no doubt. Perhaps some materials fell out after a bullet impacted the inside of the windshield making it appear as a clean bullet hole later on.
Weldon makes a good point when he says the weather was not predictable. Therefore the bubble top could have been in place if the showers continued during the motorcade. So it is possible a windshield shot was planned for that contingency.
Weldon makes a good case that the middle man usually sitting in the front seat was removed for the Dallas motorcade. You are looking at pure evidence of a CIA coup d etat there since no mafia men or Cubans could have ordered that. It also suggests a planned shot from the south knoll.
In the end we can't prove that the windshield wasn't just nicked and removed in the Ford plant just to head-off ALL evidence. However the logic still stands that Altgens captured the windshield damage at a time where it can't correspond to any of the official shots. The best we can do is say the magic bullet was faked and the windshield damage came from a fragment from that shot. But if you compute that with the magic bullet shot wounds it still doesn't make sense. So all evidence and logic points towards the windshield shot being a separate shot. It would also explain Kennedy's neck wound being an entrance wound.
A shot from the south knoll would also correspond to the CIA sniper tactic of setting-up a kill shot opposite the diversion shot. But also a simple crossfire triangulation. The combination of Grassy Knoll, South Knoll, Dal-Tex, and possibly Depository would more than cover the need for an assured kill.
If the head shot was from the rear then the angle of Kennedy's head at 23 degrees left would correspond to a shot exiting on the right side of his head. I won't commit to this because I'm now a believer in the temple shot seen by Crenshaw. I didn't believe in it before but I've since been persuaded by the overt level of corruption in the evidence I didn't think was possible. I've seen enough proof of total corruption and deep CIA control that we are now into Alice's wonderland and anything is possible as far as the evidence.
What is very interesting here is Penn Jones said he saw a woman being interviewed by a TV reporter saying she saw a shot from the south knoll. It would be very scary if we had a unknown victim whose witnessing was so dangerous that we don't even know she disappeared. So much for the bravery of our so-called "free press" in stepping-up and revealing that interview.
Oh for a photographer that caught a sharp close-up of the windshield at Parkland. Or for a conscientious Ford worker crew that switched windshields and smuggled the real one out to keep as evidence.
Grassy knoll=diversion - Seamus Coogan - 31-05-2011
Good post Al. I'll still play coy on it but cheers. South Side diversion shot. Yeah man very interesting. Gotta be careful with the CIA shooter thanggg! The CIA utilised classic military styles in the hit. To say these were 'CIA tactics' is a bit of a misnomer Al. I'd say that they adopted military tactics and or the shooters had been trained in that style.
Out of interest though Al in between pages 126-127 in Bob Grodens and Harry Livingstones 'High Treason' I re-checked his diagrams and on the the fourth page of illustrations there's a diagram of the various shooting positions in the plaza showing a point by the South Side storm drain. If my scanner was working I'd send it to you. Thus if anyone here has the book and could scan it I'd appreiciate it. But it's interesting to also note that Bob dropped it by the time his 'Killing of a President' came out.
Grassy knoll=diversion - Seamus Coogan - 31-05-2011
Bernice Moore Wrote:Bernice I was trying lol!!!!........Seamus, i realised you were, and then you all of a sudden you blew it by throwing in names and digs, i thought ''the devil made him do it''..it hit me so funny, thanks for the chuckle, i just had to say something, it was like, all of a sudden the bottom fell out..take care..imo also, there was no shooter in the back of the lead car, but it was something different and made a good thread, some information and others opinions, were posted, and that's always a positive, give the girl a break, there is so much.....thanks...b
Okay lol. I think the shame is that Betty as I said actually raised some good questions about the possibility of a diversion shot and about Sorrell's role and of course the lead car. I do hope she comes back.
Grassy knoll=diversion - Bernice Moore - 31-05-2011
fwiw I did the best i could with trying to blow up and crop the back window of the lead car, i think it is the top, perhaps fringe of the flag on the left front fender of the xp 100...imo..
i posted this link in shots, but perhaps the info should be available here...thanks...b