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+--- Thread: Michael Piper and Final Judgment (/thread-9470.html)
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Albert Doyle - 13-12-2012
David Josephs Wrote:
:flypig:
Neither forced or departed Albert(s)... I posted my argument and the support for it... Y'all offered up MARK... MARK offered up some strings that dangled from a few vague inferences and NEVER was able to show the WAR between JFK and BG/Israel.. the basis of the book.
I posted the documents of the time, excerpts from the book itself and tie them together to show you how Piper does not make his case.
No, no, no. You're not being honest David. The point we were at was you used your usual ridicule and swagger to mock us with the belief that you found evidence that Johnson drastically reduced the Israel budget. When Mark correctly showed that happened under Kennedy's watch right at the same critical juncture as the NSAM trickery you bolted. And now you're not being honest about it.
Also, you're not being honest about the witnessing of Ben-Gurion's breakdown which Mark's non-Piper reference showed was witnessed and corroborated by members of the Israeli government to the same proportion and degree members of the American government witnessed the conspiracy on this side. You're simply in denial of the evidence that is there. Instead of being curious about it you show an inappropriate hostility and defensiveness that goes way beyond objective devil's advocacy and into biased agenda. What you should be worried about is the Israeli politician Mark cited who said Ben-Gurion's nervous breakdown and departure was caused by his fight with JFK over Israeli nukes. You act as if all the other evidence, like Angleton undermining JFK by supplying Israel nuclear materials, didn't exist and show dedicated incuriosity instead of honest interest. Your input is intentionally mendacious on its face and proven so by its non-serious taunting manner.
By the way, how did those "new jew backers" learn about the Cuban exiles and how did they connect and access their funding? David is suggesting a local Jewish Mahjong club got proactive and sought-out the Cuban exiles. Any honest look into the cabal would show that no jewish interest could penetrate that deeply into the conspiracy without coming in contact with all the major players associated with the main level conspiracy. You have the entire Israeli covert infrastructure described in detail in Piper yet you are positing that these unknown jewish philanthropists walked in and miraculously funded the Cuban side of the cabal, with the intent of getting rid of Kennedy first, yet somehow miraculously never came in contact with the main cabal otherwise spelled-out on this website in infinite detail. Those main players allowed this Mahjong club to waltz in and fund the Cuban side, with the intent of killing Kennedy, and showed no interest in these unknown, suddenly-appearing players. Even though their stated intent to kill Kennedy first might spoil the plan to kill JFK you recognize was being orchestrated by those main players at the time. You can see how your forced and contrived attempt to pose those backers as being innocently motivated for Cuba only grinds against the known facts and doesn't fit in to any honestly-examined assassination scenario as it is otherwise commonly known on this site.
Ya.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Charles Drago - 13-12-2012
The "Albert Doyle" provocation continues -- boldly, arrogantly, defiantly.
The following quotes, ostensibly from the cyber pen of the historic "Albert Doyle" whose DPF posts for years were characterized by their brevity, absence of confrontational language, and utterly atrocious writing, give away the provocateurs' game.
Either more than one person is posting over the "Doyle" signature, or the historic "Doyle" was playing an equally nefarious game be posing as a semi-literate dolt in order to set up the current game.
I've added emphasis in BOLD to draw your attention to vocabulary and constructions far beyond any writing ever presented by the historic "Doyle."
The point we were at was [B]you used your usual ridicule and swagger to mock us with the belief that you found evidence that Johnson drastically reduced the Israel budget. [/B]
Instead of being curious about it you show an inappropriate hostility and defensiveness that goes way beyond objective devil's advocacy and into biased agenda.
You act as if all the other evidence, like Angleton undermining JFK by supplying Israel nuclear materials, didn't exist and show [B]dedicated incuriosity instead of honest interest. Your input is intentionally mendacious on its face and proven so by its non-serious taunting manner. [/B]
David is suggesting a local Jewish Mahjong club got proactive and sought-out the Cuban exiles.
You have the entire Israeli covert infrastructure described in detail in Piper yet you are positing that these unknown jewish philanthropists walked in and miraculously funded the Cuban side of the cabal, with the intent of getting rid of Kennedy first, yet somehow miraculously never came in contact with the main cabal otherwise spelled-out on this website in infinite detail.
You can see how your forced and contrived attempt to pose those backers as being innocently motivated for Cuba only grinds against the known facts and doesn't fit in to any honestly-examined assassination scenario as it is otherwise commonly known on this site.
Note how this version of "Albert Doyle" positions the words "incuriosity" and "mendacious" in the same sentence. This, for me and others, presents as a clear case of the writer attempting to confuse the reader by utilizing a non-word that begs positive comparison with the tortured prose of the historic "Doyle" and a word that the earliest "Doyle" manifestation could not spell, let alone define.
It's all about cognitive dissonance.
Let me be blunt: If I were the all-powerful OZ of DPF as Fetzer and others mendaciously claim, "Albert Doyle" would have been banned from this site weeks ago.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - David Josephs - 13-12-2012
Albert Doyle Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:
:flypig:
Neither forced or departed Albert(s)... I posted my argument and the support for it... Y'all offered up MARK... MARK offered up some strings that dangled from a few vague inferences and NEVER was able to show the WAR between JFK and BG/Israel.. the basis of the book.
I posted the documents of the time, excerpts from the book itself and tie them together to show you how Piper does not make his case.
No, no, no. You're not being honest David. The point we were at was you used your usual ridicule and swagger to mock us with the belief that you found evidence that Johnson drastically reduced the Israel budget. When Mark correctly showed that happened under Kennedy's watch right at the same critical juncture as the NSAM trickery you bolted. And now you're not being honest about it.
Also, you're not being honest about the witnessing of Ben-Gurion's breakdown which Mark's non-Piper reference showed was witnessed and corroborated by members of the Israeli government to the same proportion and degree members of the American government witnessed the conspiracy on this side. You're simply in denial of the evidence that is there. Instead of being curious about it you show an inappropriate hostility and defensiveness that goes way beyond objective devil's advocacy and into biased agenda. What you should be worried about is the Israeli politician Mark cited who said Ben-Gurion's nervous breakdown and departure was caused by his fight with JFK over Israeli nukes. You act as if all the other evidence, like Angleton undermining JFK by supplying Israel nuclear materials, didn't exist and show dedicated incuriosity instead of honest interest. Your input is intentionally mendacious on its face and proven so by its non-serious taunting manner.
By the way, how did those "new jew backers" learn about the Cuban exiles and how did they connect and access their funding? David is suggesting a local Jewish Mahjong club got proactive and sought-out the Cuban exiles. Any honest look into the cabal would show that no jewish interest could penetrate that deeply into the conspiracy without coming in contact with all the major players associated with the main level conspiracy. You have the entire Israeli covert infrastructure described in detail in Piper yet you are positing that these unknown jewish philanthropists walked in and miraculously funded the Cuban side of the cabal, with the intent of getting rid of Kennedy first, yet somehow miraculously never came in contact with the main cabal otherwise spelled-out on this website in infinite detail. Those main players allowed this Mahjong club to waltz in and fund the Cuban side, with the intent of killing Kennedy, and showed no interest in these unknown, suddenly-appearing players. Even though their stated intent to kill Kennedy first might spoil the plan to kill JFK you recognize was being orchestrated by those main players at the time. You can see how your forced and contrived attempt to pose those backers as being innocently motivated for Cuba only grinds against the known facts and doesn't fit in to any honestly-examined assassination scenario as it is otherwise commonly known on this site.
Ya.
Fromwhat I observed... the ONLY thing ALBERT DOYLE about that post is...
"Ya."
Since you can neither link to MARK's work nor offer any of your own links to the work... this convo is over...
bu-bye now.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Albert Doyle - 14-12-2012
David, once again, forced off by the facts.
The questions were legitimate and backed by the facts. They went unanswered.
How did these anonymous "new jew backers" know about the Cuban exiles, fund them, and connect with them?
I think the irrational attack on this perfectly reasonable Deep Politics inquiry says more than anything since these are perfectly reasonable questions.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Magda Hassan - 14-12-2012
Why don't you just link to what you are saying Albert? It is a perfectly reasonable request.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - David Josephs - 14-12-2012
Albert Doyle Wrote:David, once again, forced off by the facts.
The questions were legitimate and backed by the facts. They went unanswered.
How did these anonymous "new jew backers" know about the Cuban exiles, fund them, and connect with them?
I think the irrational attack on this perfectly reasonable Deep Politics inquiry says more than anything since these are perfectly reasonable questions.
How did these anonymous "new jew backers" know about the Cuban exiles, fund them, and connect with them?
That's a good question - and one you'd need to answer considering they were talking about the invasion of Cuba and not the JFK assasination.
If Jack Ruby was the source of these funds... and for the first time... we have "our new backers are Jews" (you could at least QUOTE him correctly...)
"we now have plenty of money - our new backers are Jews - as soon as 'we' (or 'they') take care of Kennedy"
First off please remember this was told to us by "THOMAS MOSLEY" - who is neither researched or described in Piper's book... His name is mentioned ONCE.
Do you believe it academically sound to base an entire book and accusation on a 2nd hand report of what this man MOSLEY SAYS Homer Said without investigating who this MOSLEY was?
Without presenting just a bit more info on the man and his background?
You may also wish to read thru Rowley's HSCA testimony along with the reports he provided about 2-1-66, Mosley, "Mannie" and the entire point of the situation - arming Cubans for an attack on Cuba...
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol3/pdf/HSCA_Vol3_0919_3_Rowley.pdf
How about applying some of the skills we've seen exhibited by Mr. Doyle and actually LOOK INTO THE REALITY of the evidence instead of simply parroting the same line over and over.
For all we know... Mr MOSLEY just made it up... do you have ANYTHING to help substantiate this 2nd HAND REPORT of what someone else said as even being FACTUAL?
And please address why Piper would not be more diligent in presenting more on the background of THE KEY PLAYER in his saga and theory and conclusion?
Does this not border on intellectual dishonesty? just like the WCR's.. "no evidence of...." which allowed them to reach conclusions based on extremely limited evidence?
DJ
p757 or 659 of Piper, depending on the real book versus pdf: this is the ONLY MENTION of Mosley in the entire book...
In fact, it was Sierra who financed the arms dealreferencedon the first page of
the preface of Final Judgmentabout which a federalinformant inside the Cuban
groups (one Thomas Mosley) said he was told: "We nowhave plenty of moneyour
new backers are the Jewsas soon as they take care ofJFK."
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/marsh/jfk-conspiracy/Bolden.txt
Tucker, Edward Z.
Chicago office, stated he was never aware of a teletype message which
came in to the Chicago office from the FBI or anyone else regarding a threat against
the President in 10/63-11/63 [see Bolden], stated that on or about October 30, 1963 he
and Agent Tom Strong interviewed ThomasVallee who was alleged to represent a threat to
JFK which was standard Service procedure to make such visits prior to a
Presidential visits and Tucker had concerns after his conversation with Vallee who had one or
more rifles in his possession and reported his misgivings to the Secret Service office, the
next day Vallee's landlady called the Service office and said that Vallee had told her
that he was not going to work on Saturday (the day of JFK's visit to Chicago) which resulted
in the Service having the Chicago Police Department surveil Vallee, stated that prior
to JFK's arrival in Chicago Vallee was arrested by two Chicago Police officers on 11/2/63,
Tucker's original assignment on 11/2/63 was to meet JFK at O'Hare Airport and since he did
not go to the Service office had no knowledge of any other subjects that the Service
may have had in custody at the time, stated also that if there had been suspects in
custody at that time he was not informed of it nor does he remember the Service taking into
custody any one between 10/30-11/2/63, upon reaching the airport in the morning of
11/2/63 was told that the President had canceled his trip to Chicago but that several Members
of Congress had arrived and the Service had been instructed escort them to the Army-Air
Force Academy game at Soldier Field but thinks he went home instead, when asked about
the 12/3/63 memo he authored regarding Tom Mosley and guns for Cubans "who may be
involved in the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy, Tucker stated
that Mosley was a Secret Service informant known as 2-1-266 who was involved with many of
Latin types but did not remember the outcome of the matter but feels that it came
about after 11/22/63 on 12/3/63 wrote a report on alleged Cuban prior knowledge of
the JFK assassination plot [26WC441; 3HSCA383; CE 2959; NARA JFK Collection
Document # 180-10070-10276 (HSCA 1/19/78 Edward Tucker interview summary)]
MAURICE MARTINEAU:
in 2/63 transferred to Chicago office as ASAIC, was Acting SAIC of
Chicago office in November, 1963 and when asked about the JFK cancelled 11/2/63 trip there
stated he did not recall any particular surveillance of Cubans and only remembered the
name Mosley as a "police buff... who knew where there was a stock of automatic weapons
which some Cubans were trying to buy... and at no time do I recall talking to the
FBI about it" (Joseph Noonan stated that, in 1961 or 1962, Mosley came to the office to talk
to SAIC Martineau about counterfeiting which resulted in Agent Motto working undercover on
it; in 11/63 and also Mosley told Martineau about some anti- Castro Cubans who wanted
to buy automatic weapons [NARA JFK Collection Document # 180-10104-10331; NARA
JFK
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Charles Drago - 14-12-2012
Magda Hassan Wrote:Why don't you just link to what you are saying Albert? It is a perfectly reasonable request.
I love you, Magda, but you'd have better luck teaching music theory to a pack of meth-crazed jackalopes.
"Albert" is a fictive construct.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - David Josephs - 14-12-2012
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10898&relPageId=3
Commission Document 498 - SS Rowley Memorandum of 13 Mar 1964 Forwarding Reports
In this report... a page before the "JEWS" statement... we have this statement:
"In early September, Echevarria had indicated to the informant an interest in buying machine guns to be used in a Cuban revolution"
The next paragraph is the one quoted repeatedly... supposedly said on 11/21 to MOSLEY... "the informant".
So the "Jews" had stepped in with the money to assist Homer, "Mannie" and their group to invade Cuba once JFK was dealt with....
If anyone can connect this to the assassination... please do so.
As I've always said... Piper got it wrong... his assumptions are not based on the evidence but on the premise that anti-Israel ANYTHING will get publicity and sell books.
How you can give this person ANY intellectual credibility when people like MOSLEY go unresearched, and GLADIO does not play in discussions of PERMINDEX
is, to me, absurd and requires more than the deflecting posts offered.
We see these same techniques by the uninformed and illprepared LNers on thread after thread elsewhere on the internet.
I thought we were past that here....
DJ
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Magda Hassan - 14-12-2012
David Josephs Wrote:http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10898&relPageId=3Yes.
Commission Document 498 - SS Rowley Memorandum of 13 Mar 1964 Forwarding Reports
In this report... a page before the "JEWS" statement... we have this statement:
"In early September, Echevarria had indicated to the informant an interest in buying machine guns to be used in a Cuban revolution"
The next paragraph is the one quoted repeatedly... supposedly said on 11/21 to MOSLEY... "the informant".
So the "Jews" had stepped in with the money to assist Homer, "Mannie" and their group to invade Cuba once JFK was dealt with....
If anyone can connect this to the assassination... please do so.
As I've always said... Piper got it wrong... his assumptions are not based on the evidence but on the premise that anti-Israel ANYTHING will get publicity and sell books.
How you can give this person ANY intellectual credibility when people like MOSLEY go unresearched, and GLADIO does not play in discussions of PERMINDEX
is, to me, absurd and requires more than the deflecting posts offered.
We see these same techniques by the uninformed and illprepared LNers on thread after thread elsewhere on the internet.
I thought we were past that here....
DJ
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Jan Klimkowski - 15-12-2012
David Josephs Wrote:How you can give this person ANY intellectual credibility when people like MOSLEY go unresearched, and GLADIO does not play in discussions of PERMINDEX
is, to me, absurd and requires more than the deflecting posts offered.
Gladio is of course key to Permindex.
See the DPF thread here.