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+--- Thread: Michael Piper and Final Judgment (/thread-9470.html)
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Mark Stapleton - 17-12-2012
Charles Drago Wrote:Mark Stapleton Wrote:Item 2: The ethnic stereotyping comes from Harold Feldman and Vince Salandria not me. I am simply pointing it out.
Ahh, the classic "I know you are, but what am I?" argument. You must ride the short tank to SS school.
You know you can become addicted to responding with insults.
The conversation we are referring to is one that took place the day after the assassination between Feldman and Salandria. The terms Jews and Wasps were used by them not me. I wasn't there.
So by reminding you of this, after you had accused me of ethnic stereotyping, you respond with an unfunny comment about riding the short tank to SS school.
Seriously, is that the best you have?
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Mark Stapleton - 17-12-2012
Charles Drago Wrote:Mark Stapleton Wrote:Item 3: What kind of deep political analyst concludes that a Jewish assassin is indicative of a WASP conspiracy? What conclusion would he have drawn if Oswald's assassin had been WASP? The mind boggles.
A very wise one.
Could you please explain why a Jewish assassin is indicative of a WASP conspiracy and not, for example, a Jewish conspiracy? I really need you to explain this. It should be simple for someone as savvy as you Charles.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Mark Stapleton - 17-12-2012
Charles Drago Wrote:Mark Stapleton Wrote:Charles Drago Wrote:Mark Stapleton Wrote:Is that a crime? Do you email other researchers?
I e-mail, telephone, and meet with honorable researchers.
But I do not allow them to write material that I post over my signature.
Albert has stated repeatedly he is the only one posting under his signature.
Mengele stated that he was just a physician and scientist.
You're ranting.
You shouldn't rant.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Charles Drago - 17-12-2012
Mark Stapleton Wrote:Charles Drago Wrote:Mark Stapleton Wrote:Item 2: The ethnic stereotyping comes from Harold Feldman and Vince Salandria not me. I am simply pointing it out.
Ahh, the classic "I know you are, but what am I?" argument. You must ride the short tank to SS school.
You know you can become addicted to responding with insults.
The conversation we are referring to is one that took place the day after the assassination between Feldman and Salandria. The terms Jews and Wasps were used by them not me. I wasn't there.
So by reminding you of this, after you had accused me of ethnic stereotyping, you respond with an unfunny comment about riding the short tank to SS school.
Seriously, is that the best you have?
You are unworthy of being taken seriously.
Back to the short tank with you.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Albert Doyle - 17-12-2012
Jan Klimkowski Wrote:The "point" of this thread is presumably deep political investigation to get closer to the truth.
Agreed. I think the problem here is some people haven't read Piper and therefore can't argue from his context. Sure, if Gladio contains information that affects or influences what Piper wrote then discussion of it is valid, however I believe it is being used to detour around what Piper actually did write since I don't see any mention of Gladio that relates to Piper.
It's my opinion that the deepest politics here are what isn't being discussed. That is, Tibor Rosenbaum's Swiss bank and Lansky's, CIA's, and Israel's relation to it. Permindex was one branch of the Mediterranean/Swiss bank underground. Israel was the other. There's an important dynamic here of French Connection and Caribbean mob interests that flowed one way and Lansky-directed Syndicate proceeds that flowed back.
David is now accusing me of switching the topic to Gladio.
Finally, I doubt Mosley made up that story. Just look at the reaction by FBI of trying bury it.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - David Josephs - 17-12-2012
No Sir... what I am saying is that without GLADIO and MOSLEY being vetted and put into the CONTEXT of his book, Piper has done a disservice to the FACT SURROUNDING HIS theories that would cause his conclusion problems.
Piper doesn not even delve into how Homer would have any knowledge of these "JEWS" he concludes is Lansky
Just how many "PERHAPS'" "APPEARS'" "MAY HAVE BEEN's" "LIKLIHOOD's" "DOESN'T SAY IT's" are needed to instill confidence in his conclusions?
In every case Piper skews his text toward the MAYBE's that support his conlcusions and stays clear of ANYTHING that might harm his theory...
Repeatedly tellling us we haven't read it... when I've posted more of his text than you've cited ANY evidence is a running joke.
YOU read it Albert(s)... YOU read it again Mark.... and post ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE that he offers to prop up his theory
ANYTHING that can be authenticated, substantiated and corroborated... please start with MOSLEY's bona fides and the EVIDENCE
See how many "POSSIBLY's" are in cluded in that ironclad evidence ....
We're waiting... Here you go boys... the CRUX of the matter: (Emphasis added)
Odds & Ends [659]
Was a Short-Lived Cuban Exile Group a Mossad Front?
The Strange Story of Paulino Sierra and Peter DaleScott
A possible key tounlocking the mystery of how the Mossad used Cuban exile
"false flags" in the JFK conspiracy may well be acomprehensive examination of
Cuban exile Paulino Sierra who popped up in April of 1963,flush with cash,
offering to "unite" the exile factions under thebanner of a new entity of his own
creation, the Junta of the Government of Cuba in Exile(JGCE). Numerous JFK
researchers have referenced Sierra's intrigues, as did thelate 1970s House
Assassinations Committee. There's much more to the story, aswe shall see.
This much is certain:the Chicago-based Sierra was "an unknown quantity to
the Miamiexiles," according to Warren Hinckle's Deadly Secrets. Sierra said"Las
Vegas and Clevelandgambling interests" were financing him and, indeed, a
"considerable"amount of money was funneled through Sierra's Chicago employer,
the Union Tank CarCompany, although Union disavowed knowledge of the actual
source of the funds.
While the FBI showed little interest in the well-fundedSierra, the CIA noted
two days before the JFK assassination that Sierra"remains somewhat of a mystery
man in terms of his means of support, and indeed, his longrange objectives. Perhaps
his mysterious backers are providing him with sufficientfunds to keep the pot
boiling for the present." [emphasis added].
Although Sierra distributed funds to a variety of exiles, ithas been said the
"money was going down the drain with nothing to showfor it." This may not true at
all. In fact, Sierra and his "mysterious backers"funded the New Orleans-based
Cuban exile trainingcamp run by longtime Mossad asset Frank Sturgis where JFK
assassination figures Guy Banister, David Ferrie and LeeOswald and/or his
"double" were seen in 1963. In the end, hardlymore than a month after the events in
Dallas, Sierra closed up shop in January of 1964 and, asHinckle puts it, "was not to
be heard of again." It appears that Sierra's aim had been accomplished.
In fact, it was Sierra who financed the arms dealreferencedon the first page of
the preface of Final Judgmentabout which a federal informantinside the Cuban
groups (one Thomas Mosley) said he was told: "We nowhave plenty of moneyour
new backers are the Jewsas soon as they take care ofJFK."
Nowas pointed out in Final Judgmentmost JFK writers have carefully
delete the phrase "the Jews" when describing thisincident, and/or change the word
"they" to "we" or fudge by noting it wasunclear as to whether it was "we" or "they"
who were going to "take care" of Kennedy, thetotality of the mysteries surrounding
Sierracoupled with what Final Judgment documentspointsagain toward a
likely Mossad role in the JFK conspiracy. Here's why:
Since Sierra was funded by "Las Vegas and Clevelandgambling interests," that
unquestionably points toward Meyer Lansky's chief Las Vegaspoint man, Morris
Dalitz (formerly Cleveland-based), who was a shareholder inMossad operative
Tibor Rosenbaum's Permindex entity which, as we have seen,played such a central
role in the JFK conspiracy.
In other words, ifas we contend hereSierra'sshort-lived organization was a
Mossad "front" designed to finance and manipulatethe New Orleans-based
operations used to orchestrate the JFK assassinationthrough the activities of
Frank Sturgis, Guy Banister and David Ferrie, not to mentionPermindex board
member Clay Shawthe money was provided by the Lansky syndicate's gambling
ventures, which, as noted, were intertwined with the Mossad'sPermindex operation.
In addition, as former National Security Council staffmember Roger Morris
has shown in The Money and the Power, his landmark historyof the intrigues of Las
[660] Final Judgment 758
Vegasin which he notably points out the multiple Israeliconnections of the crime
figures involvedthe Lansky-Dalitz casinos were heavilyengaged in money
laundering linked to covert activities of the CIA and also,certainlyalthough
Morris doesn't say itthoseof the Mossad, which intersected in many areas with
the machinations of the CIA.
Peter Dale Scott seems particularly concerned about thecircumstances
surrounding the "our new backers are the Jews"story and claims that this was
concocted as part of a scheme by the real conspiratorsbehind the assassination
(whom Scott never names) to launch a public relationscampaign blaming "the
Jews" for the JFK assassination. The problem with this, of course, is that although
anti-Semites did makesuch allegations their remarks were nevernot oncegiven
any credibility orpromoted outside anti-Semitic circles! The theory that "the Jews"
were behind theassassination had no public relevance at all. Needless to say, Scott
and others who makethis claimignore that quite relevant fact.
Howeveras they saythe plot thickens. There's much more tothe story.
Scott contendsfurther that the story suggesting Sierra's groupallegedly funded by
"Jews"was involved in the assassination was partof a more subtle plot by the real
conspirators (whom Scott never names) to force RobertKennedy into blocking any
serious inquiries into his brother's murder.
In this regard, Scott asserts that Sierra was actually afacilitator of anti-Castro
operations being carried out by Robert Kennedy (on behalf ofhis brother) on a
"second track" even as JFK was making other quiet,friendly overtures to Castro. In
fact, Sierra's operation may have been part of the effortone Enrique Ruiz
Williams allegedly being the contact point between RFK andSierra. The bottom
line, in Scott's scenario, is that the possibility ofinvolvement by Sierra's group in
the assassination forced RFK into backing off frominvestigating JFK's murder
because it could backfire, exposing Kennedy family plotsagainst Castro.
However, as even Scott points out, Sierra met in April of1963the time he
established his suspicious "Junta"with former CIADirector Allen Dulles, Lucius
Clay, a senior partner of Lehman Brothers, the famed Jewish"Our Crowd" banking
firm, and attorney Morris Liebman. What Scott doesn'tmention is that Liebman was a
major player in several high-level intelligence-connectedinstitutions integral to what
is known today as the "neo-conservative" network known for its determination to
place Israel'ssecurity as the central concern of all U.S. foreign policy making. SoSierra's
contacts went well beyond his role as an operative for RFK.
What Scott strenuously wishes to avoid is the likelihood that either the Mossad
was Sierra's actual handler or that the Mossad co-optedlower-level operatives in a
covert Kennedy-sponsored assassination plot against Castroand utilized them for
the Mossad's own purpose, namely, the assassination of JohnF. Kennedy.
The Mossad would certainly have seen the brilliance in usinga top-secret (and
potentially scandalous) Kennedy family venture as the"cover" for its own scheme to
remove JFK from the White House.
Peter Dale Scott has reportedly been fiercely hostile tothose who have dared
mention Final Judgment in his presence. We can understandwhy. Final Judgment
fills in the missingpieces of the JFK puzzlethose aspects that Scott (and others
like him) prefer to avoid or to suppress for reasons knownonly to them.
Albert Doyle Wrote:Jan Klimkowski Wrote:The "point" of this thread is presumably deep political investigation to get closer to the truth.
Agreed. I think the problem here is some people haven't read Piper and therefore can't argue from his context. Sure, if Gladio contains information that affects or influences what Piper wrote then discussion of it is valid, however I believe it is being used to detour around what Piper actually did write since I don't see any mention of Gladio that relates to Piper.
It's my opinion that the deepest politics here are what isn't being discussed. That is, Tibor Rosenbaum's Swiss bank and Lansky's, CIA's, and Israel's relation to it. Permindex was one branch of the Mediterranean/Swiss bank underground. Israel was the other. There's an important dynamic here of French Connection and Caribbean mob interests that flowed one way and Lansky-directed Syndicate proceeds that flowed back.
David is now accusing me of switching the topic to Gladio.
Finally, I doubt Mosley made up that story. Just look at the reaction by FBI of trying bury it.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Greg Burnham - 17-12-2012
David,
I want to compliment you on the saintly patience (for the most part) that you have displayed as you
challenge the ill advised contrivances to which you have been responding.
Contrived entities tend toward contrived realities.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - David Josephs - 17-12-2012
Greg Burnham Wrote:David,
I want to compliment you on the saintly patience (for the most part) that you have displayed as you
challenge the ill advised contrivances to which you have been responding.
Contrived entities tend toward contrived realities.
Thanks Greg....
I've been over and thru that book a number of times now.... the BEEF is simply not there....
so the condiments are piled as high as possible to hide the fact.
DJ
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Phil Dragoo - 17-12-2012
Jan, at https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10722-JFK-thread-worth-reading&p=62469#post62469, your 582 on page 59 you note:
Gladio is of course key to Permindex.
See the DPF thread here.
In response to David at https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?10722-JFK-thread-worth-reading&p=62449#post62449 his 580:
How you can give this person ANY intellectual credibility when people like MOSLEY go unresearched, and GLADIO does not play in discussions of PERMINDEX is, to me, absurd and requires more than the deflecting posts offered.
I find 259 iterations of Permindex at http://www.scribd.com/doc/8298527/Final-Judgment-Mossad-and-the-JFK-Assasination with zero (0) of Gladio.
Looking at the various DPF links you provide as background for Gladio, it is seen it was a pre-NATO anti-Communist secret army used to instill a strategy of tension which reads like a Dulles-era manual updated to 911 and psycho twenty-somethings with two automatics and nothing to lose.
The logic works thusly: Gladio gives life to Permindex but Piper sees only Jews.
That Piper is likened to the fellow searching for his house keys under the streetlight rather than the bushes where he dropped them; the light is better (the thing solves itself).
And CIA is inextricably woven into the Gladio-Permindex cutout.
Piper and acolytes tirelessly promoting Jews as false sponsors on the basis of obsessive-compulsive fixation.
Semper Jews ex machina.
Michael Piper and Final Judgment - Jan Klimkowski - 17-12-2012
Phil - an insightful and typically concise post.
Phil Dragoo Wrote:Looking at the various DPF links you provide as background for Gladio, it is seen it was a pre-NATO anti-Communist secret army used to instill a strategy of tension which reads like a Dulles-era manual updated to 911 and psycho twenty-somethings with two automatics and nothing to lose.
Attempting to discern the fundamental nature of Gladio is crucial.
I increasingly see the secret army to rise against Communist invasion as the founding myth, and perhaps the justification used to justify Gladio to its grunts and their handlers.
However, in the absence of any Communist invasion, the Gladio cells increasingly went operational.
As there was no genuine Communist (subversive) threat, an Enemy had to be created.
And thus the strategia della tensione, the Strategy of Tension was conjured.
The genie was out of the bottle, never to return.