Adele Edisen Wrote:Jan,

You said:

Quote:Adele - whilst I respect Hank Albarelli's work, I remain unsure about the Pont St Esprit incident.

This comment triggered something in my memory. Because of my 1963 experiences, I had begun searching for everything and anything about LSD. While going through old magazines
about to be thrown out, I came across THE BULLETIN OF THE ATOMIC SCIENTISTS to which my husband and I had subscribed. I read the Table of Contents in each issue to see if there was anything that I might want to save. In one of the 1962 issues was an article about LSD and how it could be used in wartime as a "humane" weapon to completely incapacitate a city or town without killing anyone or destroying useful property. I saved that issue for the longest time, but after some household moves, I no longer have it. However, I did a Google search just now and found a reference to it. The article is titled "Psycho-Chemicals as Weapons" by Dr. E.James Lieberman in the January 1962 issue of THE BULLETIN OF THE ATOMIC SCIENTISTS. The referring article is about Michael Hollingshead (British), an early experimenter and distributor of LSD to prominent musicians and others. He developed the spider web-spinning test as a bioassay of LSD, which at the time, was used as the only way to detect the presence of LSD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hollingshead

The Pont-St.-Esprit "experiment" had been done some 11 years earlier, in 1951, while Frank Olson was employed by the military and the CIA. The CIA had purchased the bulk of the Sandoz supply, and had enough for the aerosol and other means of distribution for that little town in Provence.

The article in THE BULLETIN OF THE ATOMIC SCIENTISTS mentioned, as I recall, that members oif Congress knew of the military's plans, and probably also knew that a test experiment had been done by the U.S. All this was Top Secret stuff. And our allies, the Brits, also knew and may have helped in that "experiment". In 1951 both countries were getting ready to have a war with the Soviet Union and its allies in Eastern Europe.

The atomic clock on the cover of each issue of THE BULLETIN has a minute hand at various times before the 12 o'clock doomsday time. The closest the minute hand of that clock has been, by the way, was during the 1950s. Now, it is again drawing closer, but not quite as close as it was then. See chart of Doomsday Clock fluctuations over the years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Clock

Adele

Quote:On 23 August 2010, UK's BBC Radio 4 broadcast an investigation by journalist Mike Thompson in which residents of the town, Albarelli, and multiple academics, were all interviewed. Thompson's piece covered the victims' experiences, their treatment at the time, the similarities and differences between ergot and LSD, the feasibility of overseas CIA trials, documentary evidence that 'field trials' had been recommended and that Pont Saint Esprit operative Frank Olson had been mentioned in White House documents with instructions to "bury" the information. After becoming aware of Albarelli's investigation, an 87 year old resident volunteered information that she and a local doctor believed that ergot could not have been the cause. Their view was based upon the doctor's fingertip-only contact with the contaminant, which allegedly resulted in three days' difficulty in speaking. Since LSD is destroyed at baking temperatures, Albarelli posited that the LSD may have been added to the bread after baking

Quote:In one of the 1962 issues was an article about LSD and how it could be used in wartime as a "humane" weapon to completely incapacitate a city or town without killing anyone or destroying useful property.

Peter Lemkin Wrote:My thinking is that 'they' thought they could hide it as a case of ergotism [which has similar, although milder, symptoms by and large]. I think there was an advantage to doing it in a developed country over and undeveloped one in that there would be doctors, psychiatrists, and other professionals [naive or planted / in-on-it] around to report on the effects. Also, better support for those affected adversely. Rye and other grains subject to the growth of ergot are not used as much in most developing nations, but ae in Europe in breads, etc.

Quote: After becoming aware of Albarelli's investigation, an 87 year old resident volunteered information that she and a local doctor believed that ergot could not have been the cause. Their view was based upon the doctor's fingertip-only contact with the contaminant, which allegedly resulted in three days' difficulty in speaking.

Keith Millea Wrote:

Quote: After becoming aware of Albarelli's investigation, an 87 year old resident volunteered information that she and a local doctor believed that ergot could not have been the cause. Their view was based upon the doctor's fingertip-only contact with the contaminant, which allegedly resulted in three days' difficulty in speaking.

My bolding in the quote above:

This does not sound at all like an LSD experience.I must be missing something.........

Quote:20 mics- threshold, and some people see visuals, some dont. I personally do very easily.

30 mics- threshold, same

40 mics- obviously tripping a little bit but again, some people wouldnt see visuals.

60 mics- = The typical low quality blotter. Tripping, but in my opinion nothing like even one gram of shrooms. It makes for a good time though. Lasts longer than a gram of shrooms.

90 mics- This is where it starts getting weird, because it is most certainly more intense for some people than a gram of mushrooms.

110 mics- like a gram and a half of mushrooms. A hit of some really good lsd.

150 mics-For alot of people this is quite amazing and intense. Obvious and interesting for anyone who is not a vegetable.
----------------------------------------------------------------
(incraments I mention will stay the same but the effects of upping it 50 mics becomes more intense than above the line.

200 mics- equal to about an 8th of mushrooms, (or more for some people).

250 mics- scares the living daylights out of some people, yet some people handle it really well, much like an 8th of mushrooms. This is the dose at which I have witnessed someone become very confused. He could "see" but he didnt know where he was(in his best friends driveway). When the comedown started, he was fine, and he became a rockstar. It was one of the best experiences of his life. (thats what I get for tripping with people around for the first time in a long while) Me and one friend had to talk this guy down for about a half hour.

300 mics- your getting into heavy territory. Still not considered by most to be a heavy dose, but thats only because they know where most people including themselves draw the line if they are experienced. Its alot like 250 mics though.

400 mics- most people would never take this much unless they knew the acid they have in their possesion and really wanted to get pretty far out there.
This is why you dont see 200+ mic hits around.

500 mics- pretty much where even some of the most experienced people draw the line. Your vision is almost completely enveloped by fractal patterns, and if you were to stare at some pavement or something, it looks like you can see to the end of eternity. Miles and miles of visual depth.

700 mics- most people who talk of taking a ten strip usually dont have very potent acid(though it is good), so 550 to 700 is where they end up. This is also where "more acid" becomes less important because the effects are very similar to an even higher dose.

1000 mics- Most people will never go there. If you had a "two hits and you are floored" type of lsd, or 100 mics and up hits, this is where a ten strip would put you. You basically cant see anything but visuals, your mind as a whole is infinately connected with its self and your external environment. Amazing things happen on this dose no matter what. It would scare most people shitless. Some people will think they are dieing. Many would end up dialing 911 if they were alone and could read the numbers on the phone.

1500 mics- is almost exactly like 1700 mics. 1700 mics being the most I have ever done. Very few people have used this much lsd.
It is VERY psychologically dangerous for some people to do this. You can no longer really see your own hand in front of your face. Your cognition and vision are both bathed in the same light. Some people forget to breath frequently, and id imagine alot of people would pass out. You will loose your ego, but you will meet many organizers of human cognition in this egoless place. They are much smarter than human beings. "they" *are self conscious neurology.
They are the mathematicians behind consciousness and even the visuals themselves.
A dose 700 mics and above will show anyone some very profound things. Doses like 500 mics and above have changed many lives in both positive and negative ways. Still, it is no more threatening than mushrooms. So dont get me wrong.

Will I ever take 1000+ mics again? Hell no....But I wouldnt give up those ridiculously heavy experiences for anything.

Quote:"This really makes me rethink previous doses. I used to assume a decent one hit of liquid was between 75 and 100 mics.

My experiences have been:

1.One hit of weak liquid: no visuals, some dreaminess, flashy stuff, mild spacial exansion. I had estimated 50-75 mics.

2.One strong hit of liquid: lots of get-up-and-go, mild to medium visuals, unconscious process, archetypes, tracers, really flashy, episodic time, obvious spacial expansion. Estimated 100 mics.

3.Two hits of weak(er) liquid: very visual, but more like one hit compounded further. Like being in a painting and floating above or out of my body. Estimated 150-200 mics.

4.One hit of strong white fluff: Between one strong and two weak hits of liquid. I thought this was 125 mics.

5. 2 hits of white fluff (mini-blotter paper): Extremely intense, really loud, came on in less than 30 min, lasted for almost 15 hours with effects going on for over 24 hours. Massive episodes of time dilation, complete boundary dissolusion, "x-ray" type vision where you see people's bones and skull, fish eye warping, everything melting and morphing to the degree that there is no reference point, thus nothing is a visual because it is total. Everything is in motion. Heavy emotional intensity, repressed emotions, human and prehuman genetic archetypes/symbols, extreme spacial expansion/boundlessness, mushroom like empathy with plants and animals but the scope is far greater. People's features seem caricatured.
Believed this to be 250-300.

6. 1/3 hit of extremely strong fluff (different batch): lasted 7-8 hours, strong stimulant, mild to medium visuals, lots of after-images, medium boundary dissolving. 100-125.

I'm pretty confident that was all real acid because of certain qualities such as spatial depth, flashy motion, boundary dissolving and color spectrum that seem very characteristic of LSD and not other psychedelics.

I wonder if I estimated on the high side. I actually (at the time) could not fathom anything stronger than that two hit. It seemed liked I had transcended biological life, lived an entire lifetime in the trip, and could see a total reality of everything being energy and a dream. I felt I was so far out that there were no objects or reference points. From that perspective it seemed there wasn't any farther to go because I was already in nothingness."

Keith Millea Wrote:Jan
Okay,so I think you are saying that these people probably took a massive dose.That short description about having trouble speaking for three days,reminds me more of what I read about BZ.

Quote:what's clear is that the impact of LSD is reliant on many factors

Jan Klimkowski Wrote:[quote=Adele Edisen]
.... Unleashing LSD on a village or a subway provides no such opportunity for close monitoring of individual psychological and physiological effects. So, what would be the purpose of a "field trial" on a large human community?

The most plausible answer is to test the impact of LSD as a mass incapacitant.


snip


One further reservation about Pont St Esprit. Typically this type of experimentation would be carried out on "Third World" populations, in Central America, Africa, South-East Asia. Why would American or British intelligence take the risk of conducting such an experiment in the sovereign territory of France, a major European ally?


snip

I absolutely believe it could have happened as Hank Albarelli describes, but my reservations are at two levels:

i) technical details such as mode of delivery;

ii) purpose of such human experimentation.