John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Printable Version +- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora) +-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: JFK Assassination (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-3.html) +--- Thread: John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee (/thread-11170.html) |
John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Tracy Riddle - 18-08-2013 Jim, I've never seen that photo before, thanks. I'm guessing that young girl is one of his cousins on the Murrett side (Marilyn?) or an aunt. I've never seen photos of any of them before. Karl, the photo Jenner is referring to is one I've never seen - a picture of Oswald standing in a lineup? And Pizzo still seems to see a widow's peak in that picture ("not the bushy type that I see in the picture.") John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Tracy Riddle - 18-08-2013 Wow, I just found this site with a lot of photos I've never seen. The one that Jim posted is identified as Marilyn and Lillian Murret. Which makes sense, because Oswald looks more like he's posing with a rarely-seen relative than his mother. http://oswald-photos.blogspot.com/ John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Magda Hassan - 18-08-2013 Isn't one of his female cousins on that side employed by the CIA? John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Tracy Riddle - 18-08-2013 Magda Hassan Wrote:Isn't one of his female cousins on that side employed by the CIA? Marilyn is the one with the spooky connections. Having looked at all the photos of Marguerite on that blog, I'd say that all pictures we have of her are the same person. By the late 50s, she put on a lot of weight, started wearing those glasses, and looked a lot more miserable. There may be a fake Marguerite, but we don't have any photos of her. John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Albert Doyle - 18-08-2013 Karl, this one is pretty obvious. You can pretty much interpolate the two Oswalds at the theater backwards. This doubles program and CIA's hypno program were pretty much the cutting edge of black ops at the time so you would have to assume they would use them for one of their most important operations - that is, regime change in America. I think the Oswald in the theater may have been hypno programmed to pull his gun and get shot. That would have tied up everything nicely but backfired and required Ruby at the police station and a desperate reaching in to DPD to arrange the basement job. John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jim Hargrove - 18-08-2013 Tracy Riddle Wrote:Wow, I just found this site with a lot of photos I've never seen. The one that Jim posted is identified as Marilyn and Lillian Murret. Which makes sense, because Oswald looks more like he's posing with a rarely-seen relative than his mother. Thanks for the link, Tracy, but regardless of what the captions say, I don't think the same woman is depicted everywhere. Here is a picture of the real Marguerite standing with Edwin Ekdahl, who she married in 1945. It was furnished to the Warren Commission by Lillian Murret. [ATTACH=CONFIG]5112[/ATTACH] John Pic told the WC, "I think he was over 6 feet. He had white hair, wore glasses, a very nice man." The woman who appeared before the WC was considerably shorter. --Jim John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jan Klimkowski - 18-08-2013 Albert Doyle Wrote:Karl, this one is pretty obvious. You can pretty much interpolate the two Oswalds at the theater backwards. This doubles program and CIA's hypno program were pretty much the cutting edge of black ops at the time so you would have to assume they would use them for one of their most important operations - that is, regime change in America. I think the Oswald in the theater may have been hypno programmed to pull his gun and get shot. That would have tied up everything nicely but backfired and required Ruby at the police station and a desperate reaching in to DPD to arrange the basement job. Albert - that's simplistic nonsense. This one really isn't "pretty obvious". Also, "regime change" is a C21st concept that does not help deep political understanding of the assassination of JFK. Like Charles, I agree that "doubling" is a standard mode of espionage behavior, but nothing else is straightforward. Firstly, the Lee and Harvey hypothesis, which is fascinating and most certainly worth considering, involves a very unusual and extreme form of doubling. Crucially, it involves the creation of two Lee Harvey Oswalds in childhood, before LHO was assigned to any mission. This is so important that I'm going to shout it. This hypothesis involves the creation of two Lee Harvey Oswalds in childhood, before LHO was assigned to any mission. Secondly, you casually assume that Oswald is a subject in MK-ULTRA type programming. This is a huge assumption. One of my tentative working hypotheses, subject as always to testing by the community and to the emergence of new evidence, is that LHO may have been subjected to MK-ULTRA experimentation. However, that leads me to radically different conclusions from those in Albert Doyle's post. I have interviewed several individuals who claim to have been used in MK-ULTRA style programme as children. To the best of my judgement, a couple of those individuals are entirely credible and have a degree of corroborating knowledge. Note that I say knowledge, not evidence. There are very few physical facts, but plenty of circumstantial and methodological evidence. So, let's assume that two children, let's call them Lee and Harvey, were enrolled in an MK-ULTRA style programme as children. I posted the material about the MK-ULTRA sub-projects into Hungarian refugees in NYC earlier in this thread. My working hypothesis, based on my interviews and those of other researchers who've worked in this area, is that these children would have been subjected to hypno-narco-trauma programming to create dissociative states which could then be manipulated by the MK-ULTRA programmers. I'll say that again because it's crucially important. My working hypothesis, based on my interviews and those of other researchers who've worked in this area, is that these children would have been subjected to hypno-narco-trauma programming to create dissociative states which could then be manipulated by the MK-ULTRA programmers. As a young adult, "Oswald" is posted as a marine to Atsugi. It is relevant that Atsugi was home to the largest operational MK-ULTRA base outside the mainland US. "Oswald" appears to be involved in several manufactured incidents - eg fights in the spookily named Bluebird cafe - and is rapidly transformed into a fluent Russian speaker. So, let's assume that the spooky programmers running MK-ULTRA regard Lee and Harvey as "star subjects". What mission are they going to send them on? Lee Harvey Oswald defects to the USSR. The Soviets are very suspicious. They stick LHO in a hospital in Minsk, giving them plenty of time to have a look inside his mind. LHO is then found an NKVD bride and gets despatched back to the USA. Back in America, Oswald gets waved straight through customs, and later enquiries about the intelligence file of this miltary defector are denied and then subject to extreme obfuscation and redaction. The ease with which LHO and his NKVD bride are allowed back into the US is absolute proof that he was a deep cover agent of at least one highly influential agency. Oswald then gets at least two national security state handlers in Banister and De Mohrenschildt. Amazingly, the "commie traitor" Oswald, the supposed Marine defector to the USSR, is welcomed into the bosom of the extreme anti-communist White Russian community. The "miltary traitor" Oswald also works out of Camp Street as an agent provocateur, handing out pro-Castro leaflets whilst moving in anti-Castro circles. There is no explicit need for MK-ULTRA programming here. However, this phase of the life of Lee and Harvey, and such games as the Mexico City incident, establish that LHO was acting under orders from controllers / handlers throughout. So, onto the assassination of JFK. Assuming again that Lee and Harvey were MK-ULTRA subjects in childhood, why did LHO suddenly become involved in the assassination of JFK? There's a longer version of one of my working hypotheses below. In short, it is my considered contention that MK-ULTRA did NOT produce Manchurian Assassins, and that the actual assassination of a Very Important Person would never have been entrusted to a Manchurian Candidate. Instead, it is my contention that MK-ULTRA produced Manchurian Patsies. Hypno-narco-trauma conditioning enabled programmers to put a subject into a dissociative state and to task the subject to go to location X and behave in manner Y. Sirhan Sirhan is a perfect example of the form: Manchurian Patsy. If, and it's a very speculative If, the LHO of the Texas Book Store was a Manchurian Patsy, then the Facilitators who used Oswald in the plot did so for at least two purposes: 1) to provide a Patsy and thus throw the hounds off the scent; 2) to provide a Patsy with a background so dangerous to the national security establshment that Oswald's intelligence background and use as a test subject in extreme human experimentation that was at that time still totally secret, HAD TO BE COVERED UP. In other words, the selection of Oswald and his subsequent murder CLOSED DOWN THE INVESTIGATION and ENSURED THE COMPLICITY OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY ESTABLISHMENT IN THE MARBLED LIES OF THE WARREN COMMISSION. Note that for this hypothesis, the MK-ULTRA element is additional rather than essential. Most of this hypothesis and its conclusions still stand purely on the known evidence that Oswald was run and handled at a very deep and covert level by certain intelligence elements, as is proven by the ease and manner of his return from the USSR and subsequent behaviour. Given the highly compartmentalised nature of both agent handing and the various MK-ULTRA style programmes, I would consider that only a very small group of individuals at both the Sponsor and Faciliatator level could have made the selecton of Lee / Harvey as the Patsy. From the Harvey and Lee vs. Richard Case Nagell thread, here's a slighly longer version of this speculative hypothesis: Jan Klimkowski Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:Jan Klimkowski Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:Any and all information coming from East of Warsaw is suspect. John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Charles Drago - 18-08-2013 Jan Klimkowski Wrote: Based upon decades of reading, research, thinking, theorizing, and writing related directly and indirectly to deep politics, I haven't the slightest hesitation in endorsing the above. Jan Klimkowski Wrote:In short, it is my considered contention that MK-ULTRA did NOT produce Manchurian Assassins, and that the actual assassination of a Very Important Person would never have been entrusted to a Manchurian Candidate. AND Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Instead, it is my contention that MK-ULTRA produced Manchurian Patsies. Hypno-narco-trauma conditioning enabled programmers to put a subject into a dissociative state and to task the subject to go to location X and behave in manner Y. Sirhan Sirhan is a perfect example of the form: Manchurian Patsy. No more need be said. At least in theory ... John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Jan Klimkowski - 18-08-2013 Charles Drago Wrote:Jan Klimkowski Wrote: Charles - indeed. Nothing more need be said. Sadly, that won't stop the half-baked nonsense flowing...... John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee - Tracy Riddle - 18-08-2013 Jim, I think that woman is the same Marguerite as in the other photos. She appears to be wearing high heels (based on the way her ankles look), and people can lose an inch or two in height as they head into old age. |