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JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Seamus Coogan - 08-07-2011
Greg Burnham Wrote:Firstly,
Charles and I, having agreed to disagree, have also buried the hatchet. I thank him for his kind words.
Secondly,
I am not aligned with Albert on this subject. We have converging as well as diverging opinions on several aspects of it, including the CIA's "fall back" plan of which Albert wrote. I do not agree that the DRAFT of NSAM 273 nor its timing had anything to do with a fall back position to aid in the cover up. Although it is an intriguing proposition, perhaps worthy of a fictional novel, I reject that thesis on its face for several reasons that I already stated. However, I respect Albert and his work.
Thirdly,
Seamus, thanks for the kind words regarding my Dallas COPA 2010 presentation on NSAM 263 & the DRAFT of NSAM 273, where I hoped to--in 30 minutes or less--shine a flood light on the actions of McGeorge Bundy during the final 90 days of JFK's presidency. In my estimation, the indications of his perfidy seem to be overwhelming. Perhaps I am somewhat prejudice against him, but not because of his involvement in Secret Societies.
He initially became suspect when he ordered the cancellation of the pre-dawn airstrikes from our bases in Puerto Cabezas, Nicaragua to the Bay of Pigs in the wee hours of the morning--just hours before Brigade 2506 landed on the beach and were consequently pinned down by Castro's forces. According to the Cuba Study Group's Report, Bundy's action countermanded JFK's last orders the night before: that all of Castro's remaining air force jets were to be neutralized [destroyed on the ground] or the mission was to be cancelled. Bundy's order to cancel the airstrikes that were strategically planned to complete JFK's order was the IMMEDIATE CAUSE OF FAILURE of the invasion plan. Again, according to the Cuban Study Group, which consisted of DCI, Allen Dulles, General Maxwell Taylor, Admiral Arleigh Burke, and Attorney General, Robert Kennedy: the IMMEDIATE CAUSE OF FAILURE was the cancellation of the pre-dawn airstrikes by McGeorge Bundy.
As for Bundy's involvement in "secret societies" -- I couldn't care less. Perhaps I should, but I don't. That is Robert Morrow's field of study, I suppose.
For the record, I did not ever mean to imply that JFK was predicting that he would be killed by members of any specific "secret society" per se, such as S&B, or whatever. A group that can be named has not accomplished secrecy.
Thanks mate. Sheeeesh the Bundy one is a hell of call. But thanks for the explanation on it all mate. I get what you mean vis a vis S&B by the way!
JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Phil Dragoo - 09-07-2011
Greg, your mention again of Bundy's sinister permeation led me to locate:
It is also clear, though seldom mentioned in the literature, that the order to cancel the air strikes, after Kennedy had formally approved them, came not from Kennedy himself but from McGeorge Bundy. Taylor relates the sequence of events: At about 9:30 P.M. on 16 April, Mr. McGeorge Bundy, Special Assistant to the President, telephoned General C.P. Cabell of CIA to inform him that the dawn airstrikes the following morning should not be launched until they could be conducted from a strip within the beachhead. Mr. Bundy indicated that any further consultation with regard to this matter should be with the Secretary ofState (Memo. 1, para. 43).
The Bay of Pigs Revisited by Michael D. Morrissey
http://history.eserver.org/bay-of-pigs.txt
So here is Bundy torpedoing the CIA op and Kennedy in one fell swoop.
At the end it was quite unexpected to find a Daniel Patrick Moynihan observation:
An American Original
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2010/11/moynihan-letters-201011
"IT'S OVER"
November 22, 1963
A memorandum dictated by Moynihan to himself, describing his chaotic, terrible day after news of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy reached Washington. William Walton was an artist and Kennedy-family friend. Charles Horsky was a prominent lawyer and White House adviser on national capital affairs. Moynihan at the time was an assistant secretary of labor in the Kennedy administration.
Bill Walton, Charlie Horsky and I were just finishing lunch at Walton's housein the grandest good mood with Walton leaving for the Russian tour that afternoonI was talking about Brasilia and the phone rang. Oh no! Killed! No! Horsky's office had phoned for him to return. We rushed upstairs. Television had some of it but the commercials continued. Bill began sobbing. Out of control. Horsky in a rage. Clint (?)Jackie's agent had said the President is dead. Walton knew this meant it was so. He dressed more or less and we went directly to the White House from Georgetown. On the way the radio reported that Albert Thomas had said he might be living.
We went directly to the President's office which was torn apart with new carpets being put down in his office and the cabinet room. As if a new President were to take office. No one about save Chuck Daly. McGeorge Bundy appeared. Icy. Ralph Dungan came in smoking a pipe, quizzical, as if unconcerned. Then Sorensen. The three together in the door of the hallway that leads to the Cabinet room area. Dead silent. Someone said "It's over."
This on the heels of your (Greg's) naming Bundy as the likely author of NSAM 273.
Onward into the quagmire with the best and the brightest.
There was a mocking response to my observations on lancer, and surprise, surprise, the mocker was a nutter.
Alice, we're surely near tea time.
JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Ed Jewett - 09-07-2011
Seamus Coogan Wrote:Lol.
... there's a chance we both might actually learn something.
Your ontological aggression is showing.
I'm not interesting in "debating" the issue; I'm still learning. Nor am I interested in learning from someone who insists on interjecting his own sense of his knowledge. I am sure you have done more research into JFK, Dealey Plaza and related topics. You have my respect for having done so. I am glad you are so full up on the topic and yourself ("Like you have something to tell me") that you have nothing left to learn.
Your presumptions are showing... but send me a few extra days where I'm not deeply involved in something more important and I'll get over to CTKA and catch up on your deeply-saturated insight and wisdom.
I didn't "make out that" you hadn't read GME. I noted that I had.
"That complete and utter gibberish you sent about the Illuminati-JFK and MK Ultra. How silly is that? Kris Milligan, good god...."
Well, it may be complete and utter gibberish; that's your opinion. Maybe you should invite him to DPF to join the conversation. Now, at least, I can put a little red mark next to it that says Seamus Coogan thinks it's complete and utter gibberish.
"As for Phil Melanson I'm sorry..." I just received the book. But I am glad you have pre-registered your vital opinion so that I can keep it in mind as I turn the pages.
Where can I pre-register my book purchases online so that you can screen them for me?
JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Seamus Coogan - 09-07-2011
Phil Dragoo Wrote:Greg, your mention again of Bundy's sinister permeation led me to locate:
It is also clear, though seldom mentioned in the literature, that the order to cancel the air strikes, after Kennedy had formally approved them, came not from Kennedy himself but from McGeorge Bundy. Taylor relates the sequence of events: At about 9:30 P.M. on 16 April, Mr. McGeorge Bundy, Special Assistant to the President, telephoned General C.P. Cabell of CIA to inform him that the dawn airstrikes the following morning should not be launched until they could be conducted from a strip within the beachhead. Mr. Bundy indicated that any further consultation with regard to this matter should be with the Secretary ofState (Memo. 1, para. 43).
The Bay of Pigs Revisited by Michael D. Morrissey
http://history.eserver.org/bay-of-pigs.txt
So here is Bundy torpedoing the CIA op and Kennedy in one fell swoop.
At the end it was quite unexpected to find a Daniel Patrick Moynihan observation:
An American Original
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2010/11/moynihan-letters-201011
"IT'S OVER"
November 22, 1963
A memorandum dictated by Moynihan to himself, describing his chaotic, terrible day after news of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy reached Washington. William Walton was an artist and Kennedy-family friend. Charles Horsky was a prominent lawyer and White House adviser on national capital affairs. Moynihan at the time was an assistant secretary of labor in the Kennedy administration.
Bill Walton, Charlie Horsky and I were just finishing lunch at Walton's housein the grandest good mood with Walton leaving for the Russian tour that afternoonI was talking about Brasilia and the phone rang. Oh no! Killed! No! Horsky's office had phoned for him to return. We rushed upstairs. Television had some of it but the commercials continued. Bill began sobbing. Out of control. Horsky in a rage. Clint (?)Jackie's agent had said the President is dead. Walton knew this meant it was so. He dressed more or less and we went directly to the White House from Georgetown. On the way the radio reported that Albert Thomas had said he might be living.
We went directly to the President's office which was torn apart with new carpets being put down in his office and the cabinet room. As if a new President were to take office. No one about save Chuck Daly. McGeorge Bundy appeared. Icy. Ralph Dungan came in smoking a pipe, quizzical, as if unconcerned. Then Sorensen. The three together in the door of the hallway that leads to the Cabinet room area. Dead silent. Someone said "It's over."
This on the heels of your (Greg's) naming Bundy as the likely author of NSAM 273.
Onward into the quagmire with the best and the brightest.
There was a mocking response to my observations on lancer, and surprise, surprise, the mocker was a nutter.
Alice, we're surely near tea time.
I think I'm with you Phil it is very murky.
JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Seamus Coogan - 09-07-2011
Ed Jewett Wrote:Seamus Coogan Wrote:Lol.
... there's a chance we both might actually learn something.
Your ontological aggression is showing.
I'm not interesting in "debating" the issue; I'm still learning. Nor am I interested in learning from someone who insists on interjecting his own sense of his knowledge. I am sure you have done more research into JFK, Dealey Plaza and related topics. You have my respect for having done so. I am glad you are so full up on the topic and yourself ("Like you have something to tell me") that you have nothing left to learn.
Your presumptions are showing... but send me a few extra days where I'm not deeply involved in something more important and I'll get over to CTKA and catch up on your deeply-saturated insight and wisdom.
I didn't "make out that" you hadn't read GME. I noted that I had.
"That complete and utter gibberish you sent about the Illuminati-JFK and MK Ultra. How silly is that? Kris Milligan, good god...."
Well, it may be complete and utter gibberish; that's your opinion. Maybe you should invite him to DPF to join the conversation. Now, at least, I can put a little red mark next to it that says Seamus Coogan thinks it's complete and utter gibberish.
"As for Phil Melanson I'm sorry..." I just received the book. But I am glad you have pre-registered your vital opinion so that I can keep it in mind as I turn the pages.
Where can I pre-register my book purchases online so that you can screen them for me?
Ed. What concerns me is that say you've 'put your head on the chopping block' for playing Devils advocate. What I take it to mean (as I have done that before) is that it 'I have an idea, I'll see how it floats' what that means of course as you know is that 'I'm prepared to take some points of view'.
Instead what seems to have happened in opening yourself up (which you have every right to do of course, and also disagree with me thats fine) you have also wanted to express a viewpoint, not let the chips fall where they may. I don't think I would have been so 'aggressive' if you had just come flat out and said hey this is my idea. When we make comments intended to have an open ending it's very important to not push an agenda.
I wish I could say I was a Saint in this regard.
JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Ed Jewett - 09-07-2011
Seamus, it's clear we have some basic difficulties in communicating. But your last post is closer to an honest expression of my intent, post, inquiry, idea, thesis, (whatever you want to call it).
What I think I have said is this:
I am doing some reading in depth; that reading is long, arduous, incomplete, on complex and controversial subjects in which there is limited information as it is deeply historical (borrowing on and burrowing in language and expression patterns not of modern day America) and which by definition has been secret and has been suppressed, and on which new information is emerging every year.
The long-dead beloved President, the subject of intense inquiry, once gave a speech on secret societies; there is some difference of opinion on what he meant in that speech and whether in fact he was talking about the history of the Illuminati, Skull and Bones, nefarious dealings under the table in finance and government, or other conspiracy -- in the true etymological or legal meaning of that word -- or whether he was talking about the dreaded Commies.
I suggest, based on my understanding and my incomplete reading, that the charming fellow in question -- when he gave that speech -- may well have been very much aware of the history of the Illuminati, Skull and Bones, nefarious dealings under the table in finance and government, or other conspiracy.
Furthermore, there is every indication that the "Commies" are involved... not in the assassination, save for the obvious roles in re: Oswald... but in the histories of secret societies in Europe.
Now, none of this suggests (thus far-- I reserve the option) in any sense that there is [COLOR="purple"]a direct linkage between Freemasonry, the Illuminati, secret societies, or Skull and Bones and the assassination of this charming fellow[/COLOR].
I do not see Illuminati symbology carved into the grass on the knoll, the walls of the School Book Depository, or in the patterns of the sewer grates when overlaid on the railroad/street map.
However, there clearly is a series of indirect links (insufficient in a court of law, but we are no longer in a court of law) that do not constitute "proof"; however, there is ample information that suggests a clear attitudinal parallel between secret societies and intelligence agencies considered suspect in the assassination, and there are clear and bluntly obvious links between the creation and leadership of the dominant intelligence agency and the secret society that is at the heart of the discussion.
The presence on the membership rolls of S&B for the first six-and-a-half decades of the 20th century (as revealed in a cursory examination) of
* two key people in the Choate school;
* eight people involved in psychological operations of one kind or another;
* five people in the Foreign Service (not including the heavy hitters);
* at least five or six involved in pharmaceuticals, public health, epidemiology, etc.;
* lots of people involved in the liquor distribution business (as was the father of the charming fellow);
* ten in high positions in the Federal Reserve;
* nine associated at high levels with Brown Brothers and Harriman;
* seven associated with or related to the Rockefellers;
* four associated with the Rothschilds;
* several associates of McCloy;
* five from within the Bush family (including Prescott and GHWB);
* sixteen holding serious rank in inside the military; and
* an additional twelve involved in military intelligence; and
* numerous people in high positions in the media;
warrants further concern, inquiry, research and thought.
JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Jan Klimkowski - 09-07-2011
Seamus Coogan Wrote:Kris Milligan, good god. The only thing useful he has ever done is outting James Bamford.
Seamus - I assume you are referring to Kris Millegan of Trine Day here.
If so, your statement is truly ridiculous. Kris has published much excellent work, including George Michael Evica's A Certain Arrogance and Peter Levenda's Sinister Forces trilogy. See here.
JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Charles Drago - 09-07-2011
Jan is correct.
Seamus, unless you can back up such slurs, you jeopardize your own bona fides.
JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Greg Burnham - 09-07-2011
Seamus,
You have recently made some serious errors in judgment regarding me and my work. You have since admitted your error and made amends. However, as noted by Jan and Charles, you are repeating that behavior with your seriously flawed and wholly unsupported assertion dismissing Kris Millegan's good work. A word to the wise...
JFK describes "The Unthinkable" -- "The High Cabal" - Charles Drago - 09-07-2011
I might add that were it not for David Guyatt's kind introduction to Kris and the latter's patience and passion, GME's A Certain Arrogance would have been condemned to the obscurity of a self-published and shabbily produced volume.