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+--- Thread: Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing (/thread-10195.html)
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Albert Doyle - 14-01-2013
Dial Ryder was a gunsmith who said a man calling himself Oswald came into his Irving, Texas gun shop and ordered a scope mounted on an Italian rifle. In reading the Warren Commission deposition of Ryder my judgment is that Liebeler was seeking to discredit Ryder by the quickest route and did so by proving Ryder lied about being interviewed by a Dallas Morning News reporter. Something smells to high heaven about Ryder's testimony and what I see jumping out at me is Ryder cooperating with the scuttling of his witnessing by denying a proven interview. When reading the deposition what I see is Liebeler going right for this ruse and ignoring everything else. I believe Ryder was gotten to and cooperated with this device. Meanwhile Liebeler has very little interest in the main issue, which was finding-out about Oswald's visit to Ryder's gun shop. I think what we have here is a serious case of high level suborning of perjury by a Warren Commission lawyer.
If you go to Liebeler's deposition of corroborating witnesses Edith Whitworth and Gertrude Hunter he does the same with them. Liebeler steers the inquiry toward suggesting that the visit these two ladies witnessed of the Oswald family to their furniture shop was actually the memory of another witnessing by these ladies of the Oswald's at another time. If you read the deposition Liebeler is trying to steer the ladies towards thinking that they mis-remembered this event and mistook it for another witnessing of the Oswald's shopping with Ruth Paine. Liebeler screwed-up here big time and no one caught it. While trying to convince the ladies that this other visit is what they remembered Liebeler forgot that Whitworth and Hunter had described in detail their witnessing of Marina's tiny baby. Indeed June Oswald was born only 2 weeks prior to this November 5th visit. What Liebeler forgot in his zeal to conceal this visit is that if this had been confused for the earlier visit with Ruth Paine driving June hadn't been born yet. So by his own entries Liebeler has disproven the very evidence he is using to discredit Whitworth and Hunter and their serious witnessing of Oswald. This is very serious because it corroborates Ryder's story. Something Liebeler successfully dodged with his corrupted ruse.
The final clue is the last part of the deposition where Liebeler takes Marina to Whitworth's furniture shop and asks her if she remembers visiting there? Marina says no and Liebeler accepts it without question. The deposition is then adjourned. I mean what is clearly obvious here is Ryder was suborned and gotten to in order to cooperate with a quick destruction of his credibility and therefore witnessing. Marina has obviously also been gotten to and is following instructions. There's no doubt the Oswald's visited Whitworth's shop because the two ladies described the visit in too much detail for it to be a crazy invention. It also fits Oswald seeing the plaque for the gunsmith who used to occupy a corner of Whitworth's shop. This motive, that was never quite discussed by Liebeler, corroborates Ryder. Furthermore, Schmidt, the Dallas Morning News reporter said the media first found out about Ryder from a tip-off. Well, the tip-off was Whitworth and Hunter. Examination of the timing of this tip-off shows it happened way too early for any hoaxers to have so much detail about the Oswald's. Especially June Oswald whose evidentiary conflict I described above is fatal to the Warren Commission. What you have here is serious evidence of Warren Commission corruption and evasion of evidence. Ryder had to be quickly discredited because otherwise they would have gotten to the point of asking why, if Oswald had ordered the scope-mounted Carcano from Klein's, did he need Ryder to mount a scope on his rifle?
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Charles Drago - 14-01-2013
Is Liebeler Jewish?
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Gordon Gray - 15-01-2013
Charles Drago Wrote:Is Liebeler Jewish?Sorry but why would that be relevant?
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Magda Hassan - 15-01-2013
Gordon Gray Wrote:It refers to a previous clusterfluck of a thread here where Albert and one other person supported Michael Piper's unsubstantiated theory that the Jews/Israel were the group behind the JFK assassination. Charles is having a go at Albert. I suggest we just walk carefully around it because I don't want round 2.Charles Drago Wrote:Is Liebeler Jewish?Sorry but why would that be relevant?
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Jim DiEugenio - 15-01-2013
I just commented on this at Spartacus.
I agree that Whitworth and Hunter are quite credible. I also think that Liebeler somehow got some help in order to discredit Ryder.
I think the incident happened.
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Gordon Gray - 15-01-2013
Magda Hassan Wrote:Oy vey. Got it.Gordon Gray Wrote:It refers to a previous clusterfluck of a thread here where Albert and one other person supported Michael Piper's unsubstantiated theory that the Jews/Israel were the group behind the JFK assassination. Charles is having a go at Albert. I suggest we just walk carefully around it because I don't want round 2.Charles Drago Wrote:Is Liebeler Jewish?Sorry but why would that be relevant?
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Adele Edisen - 15-01-2013
Albert Doyle wrote, in his second paragraph, (see entry No. 1 above):
Quote:While trying to convince the ladies that this other visit is what they remembered Liebeler forgot that Whitworth and Hunter had described in detail their witnessing of Marina's tiny baby. Indeed June Oswald was born only 2 weeks prior to this November 5th visit. What Liebeler forgot in his zeal to conceal this visit is that if this had been confused for the earlier visit with Ruth Paine driving June hadn't been born yet.
I think you mean the child Audrey Marina Rachel Oswald, born October 20, 1963. June Lee Oswald was born in the Soviet Union on February 15, 1962.
Adele
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Adele Edisen - 15-01-2013
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:I just commented on this at Spartacus.
I agree that Whitworth and Hunter are quite credible. I also think that Liebeler somehow got some help in order to discredit Ryder.
I think the incident happened.
Jim, I just read this today. On pages 352-353 of your book, DESTINY BETRAYED, you describe an interview of an important and credible Warren Commission witness, Sylvia Odio, by Wesley Liebeler. After taking her testimony in Dallas, he invited her for dinner with an acquaintance of his, and then invited her up to his hotel room to look at some pictures. She later told Gaeton Fonzi and the Church Committee what happened next, "He showed me pictures, made advances, yes, but I told him he was crazy."
This tactic, as you state, was Liebeler's and the Warren Commission's unethical effort to discount Odio's testimony about the visit of three men, one of them claiming to be Leon Oswald. You point out that the Warren Commission ignored her story and its link to a conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination, and they focussed instead on the Oswald in Mexico City story as more appropriate for their aims in showing Oswald as a communist, and more in line with their expected conclusion.
Almost finished reading your book, Jim.
Adele
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Jim DiEugenio - 15-01-2013
Thanks Adele.
I included that about Liebeler and Odio to show just how incredibly bad the WC actually was.
See, right before that, Liebeler told Odio that Warren had instructed them to shove anything that indicated a conspiracy under the rug. And if you follow the footnote to that, its true. Martin Hay found that memo on that over at MFF. It seems that Warren was relaying the message he got from LBJ to the rest of his worker bees.
The irony being that Warren didn't know that this was all based on a beautifully constructed false scenario created by Phillips and Angleton in Mexico City. Which I detail in that same chapter you refer to where I talk about Odio, Chapter 16, Mexico City and Langley. That Liebeler and the WC and Hoover went to such lengths to discredit Odio, to the point of substituting Hall, Howard and Seymour for the three men, this all indicates just how compelling a witness she really was. And just how provocative her story was.
Liebeler And The Ryder Witnessing - Charles Drago - 15-01-2013
Gordon Gray Wrote:Charles Drago Wrote:Is Liebeler Jewish?Sorry but why would that be relevant?
"Albert Doyle" is, in my studied opinion and that of others, an identity used by agents provocateur to promulgate the lie that Israel was a Sponsor of the JFK assassination.
Thank you for asking.