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+--- Thread: CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters (/thread-10209.html)
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Bill Kelly - 18-01-2013
CIA Director told RFK"there were two people involved in the shooting."
JFKcountercoup: CIA Director told RFK Two People Shooting at JFK
In Dallas on the night of the assassination, one copy of the Zapruder film of the assassination of President Kennedy was hand delivered to the Grand Prarie Naval Air Station where a jet pilot flew it to Washington D.C.
The film was taken to Secret Service headquarters where it was viewed, but since the Secret Service wasn't in the business of analyzing films, two Secret Service agents took the film to the National Photo Interpretation Center (NPIC) at the Navy Yard where it was turned over to Dino Brugioni. Brugioni's team analyzed it and made still blow ups of select individual frames that were mounted on briefing boards. They worked on the film throughout the night and in the morning the director of the NPIC, Art Lundal, took the briefing boards to the CIA Headquarters.
Lundal's October 1962 briefing to JFK on U2 photo evidence of Soviet missiles in Cuba set off the Cuban Missile Crisis. Kennedy was so impressed with Lundal's briefing he sent Lundal to London and Paris to brief the US Ambasador (David Bruce), the Prime Minister and French president Charles DeGaul. The content of Lundal's briefing to CIA director John McCone is unkown, but it ostensibly was based on the NPIC analysis of the Zapruder film and the reports of the Secret Service agents who witnessed the assassination.
But when McCone went to the White House to brief the President, not only on the assassination but on international affairs, he found LBJ in the basement Situation Room monitoring reports from Dallas. When LBJ saw McCone, he waved him off, he didn't need to know anything the CIA had to say about the assassination or anything else.
Brugioni wrote: "McCone found Lyndon Johnson colorless and crude in intelligence matters and, as president, clumsy and heavy-handed in international affairs. Instead of personally carefully considering prepared intelligence memorandums on intelligence matters, he preferred to be briefed by trusted advisors. Increasingly, the president sought intelligence informationalmost exclusively from Secretary McNamara and the Defense Department. McCone's advice simply was no longer actively sought by the president. His role diminished, his influence faded, and the ready access he had enjoyed during the Kennedy administration became very limited…"
While LBJ wasn't interested in what the CIA had to say about the assassination, Robert F. Kennedy was interested, and a few weeks later, on December 9, RFK crossed paths with Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.,a close aide and advisor to President Kennedy. When Kennedy's casket was moved from the White House to the Capitol for the state funeral, RFK asked Schlesinger if the casket should be opened or closed. Schlesinger looked at the dead president's lifeless body and waxed face and said it should be closed, and RFK agreed.
When they met on December 9[SUP]th[/SUP], Schlesinger asked RFK what he thought about the assassination, and in his journal Schlesinger wrote: "I asked him, perhaps tactlessly about Oswald. He said there could be no serious doubt that he was guilty, but there still was argument whether he did it by himself or as a part of a larger plot, whether organized by Castro or by gangsters. He said the FBI people thought he had done it by himself, but that McCone thought there were two people involved in the shooting." (published in 2007 as Journals 1952-2000 (Penguin Press, Diary entry December 9, 1963 page 184),
That the Director of the CIA would tell the Attorney General he thought "there were two people involved in the shooting," was not just a belief or an opinion, but was a determination based on the NPIC analysis of the Zapruder film and the reports of the Secret Service agents that witnessed the assassination who said that the President and Governor Connally were hit by separate shots, which indicated there was more than one gunman.
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Peter Lemkin - 18-01-2013
Quote:That the Director of the CIA would tell the Attorney General he thought "there were two people involved in the shooting," was not just a belief or an opinion, but was a determination based on the NPIC analysis of the Zapruder film and the reports of the Secret Service agents that witnessed the assassination who said that the President and Governor Connally were hit by separate shots, which indicated there was more than one gunman.
Important stuff, Bill!.....problem is we never saw it and WILL NEVER SEE IT in the NYT et al.! [i.e. only those of us who read the details of this unbelievably complex case and even more complex cover-up, will likely ever know this and so many other details]. It is interesting, however, that despite knowing few of the details, most Americans instinctively do NOT believe the official version, which is all lies...all lies...the only correct part might be the date and time of the assassination.
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Albert Doyle - 18-01-2013
I think the magic bullet would be more of a determiner of two separate shots on JFK and Connally than the Zapruder Film.
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Peter Lemkin - 18-01-2013
Albert Doyle Wrote:I think the magic bullet would be more of a determiner of two separate shots on JFK and Connally than the Zapruder Film.
I must admit, my first and current reaction to the post above is one of a high likelihood of purposeful doublespeak......Kindly clarify what the **** you mean with those tortured few words. As I read it [short of an explanation], this is meant to confuse and confound/disguise and not to clarify/enlighten nor support anything but the official Big Lie....even if crafted to look otherwise.....though I could be mis-reading what was meant.
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Albert Doyle - 18-01-2013
It should be fairly obvious. Since the nearly pristine magic bullet is impossible according to not only the wounds it allegedly caused but also according to military ballistics experts it is a much easier way to show two separate shots than the Zapruder Film.
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Bill Kelly - 19-01-2013
Doesn't anyone want to discuss the fact that the Director of the CIA told RFK he thought there were two people involved in the shooting?
JFKcountercoup: CIA Director told RFK Two People Shooting at JFK
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Peter Lemkin - 19-01-2013
Quote:That the Director of the CIA would tell the Attorney General he thought "there were two people involved in the shooting," was not just a personal belief or an unsubstantiated opinion, it was a determination based on the NPIC analysis of the Zapruder film and the reports of the Secret Service agents who witnessed the assassination and said that the President and Governor Connally were hit by separate shots, indicating there was more than one gunman.
It HAD TO BE a modified limited hangout McCone's saying 'two'. If he didn't know before, he certainly would have known by the time he made that statement, IMHO, that it was a classic military style ambush assassination, using 4-6 teams; and that the damage to the two men shot and the limo/curb/grass/possibly sign and other facts he must have had at hand pointed to multiple sharpshooters lying in wait, all coordinated. If he didn't likely suspect that aspects/players within his own 'Company' were involved, he was a fool...and I don't think he was a fool.
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Charles Drago - 19-01-2013
The point here: How could dissemination of this fact, among so many other official acknowledgments of the truth, bring us closer to ...
WHAT, exactly?
What do we want? I've been posing this question, in print and from podiums, to my brothers and sisters in the JFK assassination research community for nearly 20 years.
I've yet to discern a consensus answer.
What will satisfy us?
How is "justice" defined in this case?
When will these factoids come together, reach critical mass, and bring about change?
Change for the better?
Because truth be told, nearly 50 years after the first questions regarding the LN conclusion were raised, the revelation that the "CIA director told RFK there were two shooters" begs a response worthy of Miles Davis:
"So what?"
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Albert Doyle - 20-01-2013
Bill Kelly Wrote:Doesn't anyone want to discuss the fact that the Director of the CIA told RFK he thought there were two people involved in the shooting?
JFKcountercoup: CIA Director told RFK Two People Shooting at JFK
Yeah, I do. This scares me because it makes you wonder how much of Fetzer's film forgery claim is correct? It begs the question what exactly did Lundal and McCone see that made them determine that? Was it the backwards movement or was it JFK's brains blowing back on to the trunk that was then altered and removed at CIA? This gives me the creeps because it opens the door to the skull flap possibly being forged-in. The reason it makes my skin crawl is because it creates the possibility, like Fetzer says, of the Zapruder Film being deliberately designed in advance in order to support pre-determined film-forgeries of wounds. Particularly, the skull flap wound. The reason this is extra creepy is because if the Parkland wounds are accurate and the parietal area, witnessed as being intact by the nurse, was undamaged that means it is possible the skull flap wound seen bursting open in Zapruder is a forgery. And if it is a forgery it makes you ask where in God's name did CIA get the film clip of a man's head being blasted open? Whose head was that and where was it shot and by whom? Of course the skull flap could still be JFK's and only the rear wound was altered.
God help anyone who references Fetzer now, but in this one case he might be right. Which only proves the biggest casualty of Fetzer's recent bizarre claims is Fetzer's own previous credible claims.
CIA Director Told RFK There Were Two Shooters - Jim DiEugenio - 20-01-2013
It doesn't mean that at all Albert.
Anyone who watches the film the first time without introduction thinks that way.
When millions saw it on TV, that was the reaction. I mean it was like an electric current went off underground.
Same as when it was in Stone's film to a new generation.
So when analysts first saw the film that night, yeah that was the reaction.
Further, in Don Adams' book, one of the gems in it is his first reaction upon seeing the film in Dallas with other FBI agents. When they walked out of the screening, he said, its obvious that he was hit by two different snipers. They said, well yeah, we all know that. But that is not what the Director wants us to say.
Same thing when Sprague's HSCA saw the film. LJ Delsa said it had to be two directions and two different calibre weapons due to the two reactions.
Because the other side has come up with so many excuses and rationalizations--Alvarez and the jet effect, Sturdivan and the neuromuscular reaction--people forget how powerful the film is as evidence. It proves conspiracy in at least four different ways.
But that's not enough for some people.