Quote:It should be noted that, during the cold war years, CIA and Army Counter-Intelligence Corps (CIC) interrogators, working as part of projects Bluebird and Artichoke, sometimes injected large amounts of Metrazol into selected enemy or Communist agents for the purposes of severely frightening other suspected agents, by forcing them to observe the procedure. The almost immediate effects of Metrazol are shocking for many to witness: subjects will shake violently, twisting and turning. They typically arch, jerk and contort their bodies and grimace in pain. With Metrazol, as with electroshock, bone fractures - including broken necks and backs - and joint dislocations are not uncommon, unless strong sedatives are administered beforehand.

A November 1936 Time magazine article seriously questioned the benefits of Metrazol, citing "irreversible shock" as a "great danger." The article described a typical Metrazol injection as such: "A patient receives no food for four or five hours. Then about five cubic centimeters of the drug [Metrazol] are injected into his veins. In about half-a-minute he coughs, casts terrified glances around the room, twitches violently, utters a horse wail, freezes into rigidity with his mouth wide open, arms and legs stiff as boards. Then he goes into convulsions. In one or two minutes the convulsions are over and he gradually passes into a coma, which lasts about an hour. After a series of shocks, his mind may be swept clean of delusions.... A patient is seldom given more than 20 injections and if no improvement is noted after ten treatments, he is usually given up as hopeless."

The Army, the CIA and Metrazol

Army CIC interrogators working with the CIA at prisoner of war camps and safe house locations in post-war Germany on occasion used Metrazol, morphine, heroin and LSD on incarcerated subjects. According to former CIC officer Miles Hunt, several "safe houses and holding areas outside of Frankfurt near Oberursel" - a former Nazi interrogation center taken over by the US - were operated by a "special unit run by Capt. Malcolm S. Hilty, Maj. Mose Hart and Capt. Herbert Sensenig. The unit was especially notorious in its applications of interrogation methods [including the use of electroshock and Metrazol, mescaline, amphetamines and other drugs]." Said Hunt: "The unit took great pride in their nicknames, the 'Rough Boys' and the 'Kraut Gauntlet,' and didn't hold back with any drug or technique ... you name it, they used it." Added Hunt, "Sensenig was really disappointed when it was found that nothing had to be used on [former Reichsmarschall] Herman Goering, who was processed through the camp. Goering needed no inducement to talk."

Eventually, CIC interrogators working in Germany would be assisted in their use of interrogation drugs by several "former" Nazi scientists recruited by the CIA and US State Department as part of Project Paperclip. By early 1952, the CIC's Rough Boys would routinely use Metrazol during interrogations, as well as LSD, mescaline and conventional electroshock units.

Metrazol-like drugs are still used in interrogations today. According to reports from several former noncommissioned Army officers, who served on rendition-related security details in Turkey, Pakistan and Romania, drugs that produce effects quite similar to Metrazol are still used in 2010 by the Pentagon and CIA on enemy combatants and rendered subjects held at the many "black sites" maintained across the globe. Observed one former officer recently, "They would twist up like a pretzel, in unbelievable shapes and jerk and shake like crazy, their eyes nearly popping out of their heads."

Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Now, the 64 million dollar question, completely avoided by The Anti-History Channel, is why was Ludlum's protagonist called Bourne?

Answers in this thread, please.

Quote:Believe it or not, the name "Bourne," in the original novel by Robert Ludlum, actually came from a guy named Ansel Bourne. Ansel was a preacher in Rhode Island and the first documented case of "dissociative fugue," a condition not unlike dissociative amnesia or dissociative identity disorder (aka multiple personality disorder). One day in 1887, he forgot who he was, started a new life in Pennsylvania under the name Brown, and opened a convenience store. A few months later, he woke up, remembered his life as Bourne, and forgot all about his life as Brown. He also had no idea how in the hell he ended up in Pennsylvania of all places.

Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Magda - thanks for posting the documentary.

A very frustrating watch.

There are some good interviewees - eg director Doug Limon whose father investigated Iran-Contra, Wayne Madsen, Colin Ross.

And some awful history, with a cringeworthy commentary - "incredible as it may seem, the CIA did..."

/snip

The History Channel?

Nah, the Anti-History Channel.

/snip

The core message of the Anti-History Channel is that you can sleep easily in your beds, sheeple, because the military-intelligence-complex may be usng the latest technology to create killers to keep you safe, but you don't have to worry yourself about it, you need never know the details....

It reminds me of why I gave up making documentary films for MSM....

Lauren Johnson Wrote:

Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Now, the 64 million dollar question, completely avoided by The Anti-History Channel, is why was Ludlum's protagonist called Bourne?

Answers in this thread, please.

This can't be the answer. It is just too simple with no deep political significance, unless there is some DP significance:

Quote:Believe it or not, the name "Bourne," in the original novel by Robert Ludlum, actually came from a guy named Ansel Bourne. Ansel was a preacher in Rhode Island and the first documented case of "dissociative fugue," a condition not unlike dissociative amnesia or dissociative identity disorder (aka multiple personality disorder). One day in 1887, he forgot who he was, started a new life in Pennsylvania under the name Brown, and opened a convenience store. A few months later, he woke up, remembered his life as Bourne, and forgot all about his life as Brown. He also had no idea how in the hell he ended up in Pennsylvania of all places.

Quote:Ansel Bourne is absolutely part of the story.

Dissociative fugues were one of the key areas of study of Jolly the Elephant Killer.