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+--- Thread: Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? (/Thread-Averell-Harriman-anyone-know-anything)
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Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - Nick Rose - 03-01-2014
Am aware of him through the Bush side of JFK lore (ie JFK II, or Dark Legacy) but was utterly unaware he was an ambassador under Kennedy. His name came up in that context in something I was reading last night. It led me to do some searches.
I then came to the following document: http://archive1.jfklibrary.org/JFKPOF/030/JFKPOF-030-006/JFKPOF-030-006-p0004.jpg.
Found in this folder: http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/Archives/JFKPOF-030-006.aspx
I am now somewhat confused.
The Bush-nazi-CT point of view paints Harriman to be quite the right winger, nazi sympathizer, and villain. Yet this note, while certainly oblique, seems to indicate that he has disdain for Kennedy's war hawk advisors regarding their militaristic Southeast Asia policy.
Any true historians on here who can decipher this for me?
thank you kindly.
Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - Tracy Riddle - 04-01-2014
Harriman is impossible to classify as "right wing" or "left wing." He is an elite chameleon figure who could go either way. He was a Democrat, and actually considered to be from the "liberal" wing of the party. Originally a hardliner on the Soviets, he later became friendlier towards them. On Vietnam he appears at different times to be both a hawk and a dove.
He was one of the so-called Wise Men (there's a very good book by that title):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wise_Men_(book)
Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - David Josephs - 04-01-2014
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5622[/ATTACH]
Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - R.K. Locke - 04-01-2014
Harriman in his own words:
[video=youtube_share;WlGm_7Bjn7o]http://youtu.be/WlGm_7Bjn7o[/video]
Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - Nathaniel Heidenheimer - 04-01-2014
Harriman was with JFK on Laos mostly because he had invested his reputation. Then he turned into POSSIBLY THE MAIN UNDERMINER of JFK's Vietnam Policy. See above all Perils of Dominance by Gareth Porter
Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - R.K. Locke - 04-01-2014
It is also worth mentioning, I think, that Harriman was (allegedly) a good friend of Robert Barney Baker:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19580825&id=C_ZVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fuIDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3247,4144827
Yes, the same Robert Barney Baker who telephoned Jack Ruby a few days before the assassination.
Small world.
Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - Nick Rose - 11-01-2014
R.K. Locke Wrote:Harriman in his own words:
[video=youtube_share;WlGm_7Bjn7o]http://youtu.be/WlGm_7Bjn7o[/video]
just got around to watching this.
jeez.
if the guy was effable at all, you'd have to say he was affable.
and if he was secretly a villain, you would most certainly not​ pick up on it in the slightest,
unless possibly -- and only -- by the aforementioned fact that he is seemingly too affable.
NATHANIEL - thank you for your input.
I will have to put that book on my reading list.
Is it possible to give a simple or brief description of his undermining of Kennedy's Vietnam policies?
I know this thread is teetering on the verge of Kennedy unrelated, but it was among my very first few posts, and was an attempt at some sort of convivial discussion that was not excessively controversial. (although unfortunately for me, one of my other posts in an existing thread, cough cough, was seemingly too controversial. and when something is too controversial for a Kennedy assassination forum,well then fuck me running)
Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - Tracy Riddle - 11-01-2014
From JFK and the Unspeakable:
In fact Averell Harriman sabotaged Kennedy's proposal for a mutual deescalation
with North Vietnam. In response to the president's order to wire
such instructions to Galbraith, Harriman " struck the language on deescalation
from the message with a heavy pencil line , " as scholar Gareth
Porter discovered by examining Harriman's papers. Harriman dictated
instructions to his colleague Edward Rice for a telegram to Galbraith that
instead " changed the mutual de-escalation approach into a threat of U.S.
escalation of the war if the North Vietnamese refused to accept U.S. terms, "
thereby subverting Kennedy's purpose. 130
When Rice tried to re-introduce Kennedy's peaceful initiative into the
telegram, Harriman intervened. He again crossed out the de-escalation proposal,
then " simply killed the telegram altogether. " l31 As a result of Harriman's
obstruction, Galbraith never did receive JFK's mutual de-escalation
proposal to North Vietnam. 132
...
Averell Harriman, for example, who had been the president's trusted test ban
negotiator in Moscow, was now doing everything he could with Hilsman
and Forrestal (and the CIA's Helms behind the scenes) to push through with
Lodge the Saigon coup they had manipulated Kennedy into supporting in
the first place .
Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - Marc Ellis - 15-01-2014
Tracy Riddle Wrote:Harriman is impossible to classify as "right wing" or "left wing." He is an elite chameleon figure who could go either way. He was a Democrat, and actually considered to be from the "liberal" wing of the party. Originally a hardliner on the Soviets, he later became friendlier towards them. On Vietnam he appears at different times to be both a hawk and a dove.
He was one of the so-called Wise Men (there's a very good book by that title):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wise_Men_(book)
I basically agree w/Tracy Riddle's description of him.
Harriman was truly a limousine Liberal. He was born into the Harriman railroad fortune.
He was a Republican turned Democrat. He was wishywashy on a lot of issues.
I don't know why Vietnam would have been so important to him that he would personally order
Diem whacked. So I am skeptical about his role in the DIEM assassination.
But I certainly could be proven wrong. It doesn't make sense based on what I know.
He was ambassador to the Soviet Union during WWII. What was his tenure like?
He doesn't seem to be an uber-hawk in that video clip.
JFK seemed to trust him very much - perhaps wrongly.
His widow was appointed Ambassador to France by Clinton.
Personally, I don't think he was a member of the cabal against JFK.
Tracy Riddle's Douglass quote is something I'll want to dig into further.
JFK gave Harriman virtually carte Blanche on Vietnam. But why would Harriman
do that? What was in it for him? Was he heavily invested in Brown & Root?
Like I said, I could be proven wrong. But something doesn't add up here.
it would be very helpful to compare the two telegraphs, side-by-side.
That would answer the question.
Averell Harriman - anyone know anything? - Nick Rose - 15-01-2014
Marc Ellis Wrote:Tracy Riddle Wrote:Harriman is impossible to classify as "right wing" or "left wing." He is an elite chameleon figure who could go either way. He was a Democrat, and actually considered to be from the "liberal" wing of the party. Originally a hardliner on the Soviets, he later became friendlier towards them. On Vietnam he appears at different times to be both a hawk and a dove.
He was one of the so-called Wise Men (there's a very good book by that title):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wise_Men_(book)
I basically agree w/Tracy Riddle's description of him.
Harriman was truly a limousine Liberal. He was born into the Harriman railroad fortune.
He was a Republican turned Democrat. He was wishywashy on a lot of issues.
I don't know why Vietnam would have been so important to him that he would personally order
Diem whacked. So I am skeptical about his role in the DIEM assassination.
But I certainly could be proven wrong. It doesn't make sense based on what I know.
He was ambassador to the Soviet Union during WWII. What was his tenure like?
He doesn't seem to be an uber-hawk in that video clip.
JFK seemed to trust him very much - perhaps wrongly.
His widow was appointed Ambassador to France by Clinton.
Personally, I don't think he was a member of the cabal against JFK.
Tracy Riddle's Douglass quote is something I'll want to dig into further.
JFK gave Harriman virtually carte Blanche on Vietnam. But why would Harriman
do that? What was in it for him? Was he heavily invested in Brown & Root?
Like I said, I could be proven wrong. But something doesn't add up here.
it would be very helpful to compare the two telegraphs, side-by-side.
That would answer the question.
Good questions \ concerns all of them.
Obviously I don't have too many of the answers, or I would not have started this thread.
RE: Brown & Root question of Harriman's investment ...
by 1962 B&R was actually purchased and owned by Halliburton -- at the time the rival or Harriman's Dressier Industries.
However, some 30 years later, the two would merge!
On Dressier Industries, however:
" Prescott Sheldon Bush (May 15, 1895, Columbus, Ohio October 8, 1972, New York City) was a U.S. Senator from Connecticut and a Wall Street executive banker with Brown Brothers Harriman. His son, George H. W. Bush, and grandson George W. Bush would both later become U.S. presidents. His father was Samuel Prescott Bush and his mother was Flora Sheldon.
He entered business in the organization of George Herbert Walker and Averell Harriman and became an officer in their investment banking firm, W. A. Harriman and Company in 1926. When it merged with Brown Brothers Harriman in 1931, he became a partner in the new firm of Brown Brothers Harriman. Bush called it "my good fortune" to work with close friends, including Yale classmates (and members of the Skull and Bones) E. Roland Harriman, Knight Woolley, and Ellery James, as well as Robert A. Lovett and Thomas McCance.
As a managing partner of Brown Brothers Harriman, he sat on several corporate boards, including the following:
Dresser Industries. An oil drilling equipment supply company. in 1928 W.A. Harriman and Company paid $4,000,000 for Dresser's corporate stock, and sold securities against the company. In 1929 Bush refinanced Dresser "so that we retained a substantial measure of control." In 1930, E. Roland Harriman and Bush became members of the board (Bush served until 1952), and installed their Yale classmate Henry Neil Mallon as chairman. Mallon and Bush were lifelong friends. (In 1948, Mallon hired George H.W. Bush to work at Dresser and George H.W. Bush named one of his sons, Neil Mallon Bush, after Mallon). In September 1998, Dresser merged with Halliburton and is now known as Halliburton Company. "
- source: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/53362/dresser-industries-halliburton-and-the-bush-family