+- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora)
+-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/Forum-Deep-Politics-Forum)
+--- Forum: JFK Assassination (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/Forum-JFK-Assassination)
+--- Thread: The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? (/Thread-The-Magic-Tonsillectomy-or-Armstrong-s-Voodoo-Science)
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 24-03-2014
From part 2, vol one of Lee Harvey Oswald's Cold War
Quote:On April 17, 1945, Marguerite took a life insurance policy out on 5 year old Lee. On the application, Marguerite declared that Lee had undergone a tonsillectomy at the hands of a Dr. Philben on Jan 17 of that same year. Oswald's Marine records actually show that he was treated for tonsillitis on Jan 8, 1957 and again on May 23, 1958. These records have been used in the book "Harvey & Lee" as evidence for the theory within which suggests that the CIA merged the identities of two young boys with the eventual aim of sending one, pretending to be the other, to the USSR. For the sake of keeping things simple, the author refers to one as "Lee" (American born) and the other as "Harvey" (Hungarian born). The book tells us that it was Lee who had the tonsillectomy, and it was Lee who joined the Marines. The switch occurred, according to the theory, in December, 1958 when "Harvey" replaced "Lee" and began preparation for a false defection.
The first problem here is that the Marine records show Lee being treated for tonsillitis before the alleged switch took place. The second problem is that there are no actual medical records showing Lee Oswald ever really did have a tonsillectomy. The third problem is that even if Lee did have his tonsils removed, they can and sometimes do grow back.
The doctor named on the insurance application was a "Dr. Philben." His full name was Patrick Donald Philben and he was a doctor of osteopathy; a form of "healing" developed along lines of spiritualist philosophies and hands-on manipulation. In the early days it was closely associated with such pseudo-intellectual attempts to merge science and spiritualism as Theosophy. Drugs were not part of treatment, and surgery was regarded as a last resort. Lee's tonsillitis was treated along osteopathic lines which may have mimicked for instance, a faith healing session in which Marguerite honestly believed the tonsils had been removed. This also makes explicable the lack of hospital records confirming a tonsillectomy. One wonders if non-traditional medicine was introduced to Marguerite by her new husband. All records prior to her meeting Ekdahl show the use of traditional doctors.
https://www.healthtap.com/topics/can-tonsils-grow-back-after-being-removed
Why did Armstrong accept an insurance form as proof of a tonsillectomy?
Why did Armstrong fail to look into the medical credentials of Dr Philben?
Why did Armstrong fail to look into whether it was medically possible for tonsils to grow back?
This is yet another example of why anything claimed by Armstrong has to be checked out -- otherwise you're just acting on faith and treating him like a guru. Even the Beatles eventually worked out that Sexy Sadie "made a fool of everyone".
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - LR Trotter - 25-03-2014
For full disclosure, I have not read Harvey & Lee as a complete book, although I have read posted portions. I have seen a "twin" of a close relative of mine, that became a close friend of my relative in HS. And later, the twin became a family friend, but there is absolutely no reason to believe the "twins" are related. When knowing each twin well, it was easy to see differences, but casual aquaintances could be, and were, fooled on occasion. So, that being said, a Harvey & Lee situation is possible, and I remain open minded but not totally convinced. But, I also believe that there are considerable indications of more than one person being identified as Lee Harvey Oswald on and prior to 11/22/63. So, I have to wonder, as I wander, does not believing "Harvey & Lee" mean not believing in any imposter, or something in between?
::doorhide::
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 25-03-2014
No disrespect meant, Larry, and as interesting as the wider subject is, I'd rather stick to the subject at hand and not have it derailed in the first response.
I have brought this to the attention of Harvey and Lee supporters on numerous occasions. They ignore it. Any individual or group who actually cared about facts would have taken steps to amend the various places on the web where claims about "magic tonsils" can be found. That they have thus far ignored it shows their agenda has nothing to do with seeking to go where the evidence leads.
Mohammed got sick of the arrogance and avoidance. So Mohammed has come to the Molehill.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Albert Doyle - 25-03-2014
Edit
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Bob Prudhomme - 25-03-2014
"The doctor named on the insurance application was a "Dr. Philben." His full name was Patrick Donald Philben and he was a doctor of osteopathy; a form of "healing" developed along lines of spiritualist philosophies and hands-on manipulation. In the early days it was closely associated with such pseudo-intellectual attempts to merge science and spiritualism as Theosophy. Drugs were not part of treatment, and surgery was regarded as a last resort. Lee's tonsillitis was treated along osteopathic lines which may have mimicked for instance, a faith healing session in which Marguerite honestly believed the tonsils had been removed. This also makes explicable the lack of hospital records confirming a tonsillectomy. One wonders if non-traditional medicine was introduced to Marguerite by her new husband. All records prior to her meeting Ekdahl show the use of traditional doctors."
From Wikipedia:
The scope of practice of osteopathic practitioners varies by country. In general, osteopaths trained outside of the U.S. are not physicians, and are limited in practice to non-invasive manual therapies,[SUP][4][/SUP] and may provide nutritional, postural, and other health advice. Conversely, the U.S. trains osteopathic physicians who practice the entire scope of modern medicine. To avoid confusion, the American Osteopathic Association recommends using the terms osteopathic physician (U.S.-trained only) and osteopathic medicine to distinguish individuals trained in osteopathic medicine in the United States from osteopaths trained in osteopathy, the restricted-scope form of practice outside of North America.[SUP][/SUP]
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - David Josephs - 25-03-2014
Tonsils grew back...
and a 3" lt mastoid scar disappears and a bullet wound to the left elbow also disappears... from the man Dr Rose performs an autopsy upon...
nice work Greg... no stone left unturned in your quest for the truth... ::face.palm::
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5811[/ATTACH]
SRB JAG found that injury received by pet on 270ct57 as a result of
an accidental discharge of a weapon, was incurred in line of duty
and not result of misconduct. (Upon opening his locker, a .22
cal pistol fell to the floor and discharged, wounding pet in the
left elbow.)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5813[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5812[/ATTACH]
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Albert Doyle - 25-03-2014
David Josephs Wrote:Tonsils grew back...
and a 3" lt mastoid scar disappears and a bullet wound to the left elbow also disappears... from the man Dr Rose performs an autopsy upon...
nice work Greg... no stone left unturned in your quest for the truth... ::face.palm::
I think this wins the point. I edited my last post because of it. The evidence clearly points towards physical differences that should be included in their totality.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 25-03-2014
Bob Prudhomme Wrote:"The doctor named on the insurance application was a "Dr. Philben." His full name was Patrick Donald Philben and he was a doctor of osteopathy; a form of "healing" developed along lines of spiritualist philosophies and hands-on manipulation. In the early days it was closely associated with such pseudo-intellectual attempts to merge science and spiritualism as Theosophy. Drugs were not part of treatment, and surgery was regarded as a last resort. Lee's tonsillitis was treated along osteopathic lines which may have mimicked for instance, a faith healing session in which Marguerite honestly believed the tonsils had been removed. This also makes explicable the lack of hospital records confirming a tonsillectomy. One wonders if non-traditional medicine was introduced to Marguerite by her new husband. All records prior to her meeting Ekdahl show the use of traditional doctors."
From Wikipedia:
The scope of practice of osteopathic practitioners varies by country. In general, osteopaths trained outside of the U.S. are not physicians, and are limited in practice to non-invasive manual therapies,[SUP][4][/SUP] and may provide nutritional, postural, and other health advice. Conversely, the U.S. trains osteopathic physicians who practice the entire scope of modern medicine. To avoid confusion, the American Osteopathic Association recommends using the terms osteopathic physician (U.S.-trained only) and osteopathic medicine to distinguish individuals trained in osteopathic medicine in the United States from osteopaths trained in osteopathy, the restricted-scope form of practice outside of North America.
Thank you for at least having a go, Robert. Yes, indeed. Only in the US would this quackery gain you the official title of "Doctor".
But to get to heart of the matter, you need to go a bit deeper than wiki:
From: http://loyolauniversity.adam.com/content.aspx?productId=48&pid=48&gid=20039
Quote:Osteopathy
WHAT IS IT?
Osteopathy was developed in the late 1800's by Dr. Andrew Still. He developed osteopathy based on the belief that displaced bones, nerves, and muscles are the cause of most health problems. A doctor of osteopathy (DO) is called an osteopath and believes that when the body's structure is corrected, its function will also improve.
The muscles and bones of the body support and protect our organs. If the muscles and joints are aligned and working properly, the rest of the body will be able to heal itself. Poor joint mobility and tense muscles can affect the brain, nerves, blood vessels, lymphatics, digestive system, heart, lungs, and other parts of the body.
When an osteopath finds a problem in the spine or joints, he will try to understand why the problem developed. The treatment will focus on two aspects: 1) correcting the weakness that led to the spinal problem and 2) directly working on the joints or muscles to restore its function and movement. Once the joint function has been restored, the blood and nerve supply will also improve and the body will heal itself.
In the early 1900's, osteopathy was quite different than Western medicine. Beginning in the 1940's, osteopaths began practicing more like Western medical doctors (MD's). Osteopaths are primary care doctors and are licensed in all states.
During your first visit to the DO, you will be asked many questions about your past and present health. The DO will examine and evaluate your posture, range of motion, skin and muscle tone, tenderness, and reflexes. Lab tests, x-rays, or other diagnostic procedures may be done. This visit may take 30 to 60 minutes and return visits may be 20 to 30 minutes.
DO's may use the following manipulation techniques:
Cranial manipulation: subtle and gentle pressure is applied to the skull.
Muscle energy: straining and releasing specific muscles to help them relax.
Functional and positional releases: putting you in a specific position to allow the muscles to relax and release spasms.
Gentle mobilization: moving a joint through its range of motion, gradually increasing the motion to free the restrictions.
Articulation: a quick thrust similar to chiropractic adjustment.
Soft tissue techniques: several techniques to remove restrictions in muscles, tendons, and ligaments.
Osteopathy manipulation is usually very effective in treating back and joint pain, injuries, and headaches. These techniques may be helpful in the treatment of other problems, such as insomnia, depression, menstrual problems, or digestive complaints. Asthma, arthritis, high blood pressure, and heart disease may also be treated with manipulation.
A DO is trained to provide a full range of medical care. Ask what treatments your DO uses. The type of treatments will vary with each doctor. Some will only do manipulations while others will do manipulations and Western medicine treatments. Others will only do Western medicine treatments.
LHO had the appointment with "Dr" Philben on January 17, 1945 which was the decade in which osteopaths in the US started incorporating Western medicine. It is unknown whether Philben had incorporated Western medicine by then - or if he ever did. Indeed, as you can see above, some osteopaths even today, do not practice mainstream medical treatments. The chances are, that in the 1940s when some were branching into the mainstream, those in the South would be the last to do so, because their clientele was in the main, less educated, more superstitious, more religious, more gullible. Osteopaths in Texas usually became very wealthy.
Unlike his matoidectomy, there are zero medical records showing LHO ever had a tonsillectomy. That's because he never had one. Marguerite merely assumed that that is what Philben did. And I'm sure Philben would not have discouraged that notion.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 25-03-2014
Albert Doyle Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:Tonsils grew back...
and a 3" lt mastoid scar disappears and a bullet wound to the left elbow also disappears... from the man Dr Rose performs an autopsy upon...
nice work Greg... no stone left unturned in your quest for the truth... ::face.palm::
I think this wins the point. I edited my last post because of it. The evidence clearly points towards physical differences that should be included in their totality.
"Points"? I thought this was about facts. Silly me.
The Magic Tonsillectomy or Armstrong's Voodoo Science? - Greg R Parker - 25-03-2014
David, your desperation to avoid the issue is palpable. I promise you (and Albert), I will get to the Matoidectomy.
Yes, the tonsils can grow back. Thank you for finally acknowledging that medical fact. But in this case, I doubt they needed to because there is zero evidence that the quack Philben actually performed any such operation.
Here is the heading at the old "Harvey & Lee" site:
MAGIC TONSILLECTOMY
That use of those colorful fonts again! Wonderful stuff!
But apart from that, don't you agree that this is a misleading header?
Don't you agree that cropping the bit about LHO having a tonsillectomy and merely stating that the information comes from an FBI report is misleading - since the info initially came from an insurance application?
Don't you agree that the following is also just plain wrong?
"So.... Did Lee Harvey Oswald's tonsils grow back? Were Marine medics hallucinating? Or is there a more likely explanation?"
http://harveyandlee.comze.com/Tonsillectomy/Tonsils.htm
Armstrong here is trying to ridicule the possibility that the tonsils grew back and offers up instead, the solution that of course, they cannot do that, and since it's unlikely that the medics were hallucinating, it must mean they were examining a completely different person!
Here is his solution:
"The Warren Commission, John Armstrong believes, combined the biographies of two different people to arrive at the classic legend of Lee Harvey Oswald. One was a Russian speaking youth, possibly the child of Hungarian parents. Armstrong notes that this person was referred to as "Harvey." The other was a taller but similar looking boy with a Southern U.S. accent, born as "Lee Harvey Oswald." Both may well have become entangled at an early age in an intelligence operation. It was "Harvey" who traveled to Russia and was shot dead by Jack Ruby. It was "Lee" who got into a fight in the ninth grade at Beauregard Junior High School and lost a tooth. One Lee Harvey Oswald had his tonsils removed on January 17, 1945. The other did not."
Ooops.
I note that the all new "Harvey & Lee" site has dropped the tonsils issue (or it is hiding it well enough that I couldn't locate it quickly on that site). If it has been dropped, the error should have been acknowledged on that old site which can still be accessed and has nothing there to warn readers that the whole article is factually incorrect.
That is just the beginning. The crap about the mastoidectomy is next.