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+--- Thread: Redbird Airport (/thread-12721.html)
Redbird Airport - Keith Millea - 17-06-2014
One of my sons sent me this article by Daniel Hopsinker.He doesn't follow the JFK assassination but knows that I do.The article is about Barry Seal and Op 40.He thought I might be interested.It seems like a very good researched piece.I just have one question.
The Article speculates that Barry Seal piloted a get-away plane out of Redbird Airport just after the Kennedy hit.I don't see any proof of this and I was under the impression that Tosh Plumlee flew out of Redbird with his team.
Could someone from the JFK community set me straight on this get-away flight from Redbird?
Thanks:
Link to article below:
http://www.madcowprod.com/2013/11/20/barry-seal-the-cias-secret-camp-in-lacombe-the-jfk-assassination/
Redbird Airport - Drew Phipps - 17-06-2014
The photo isn't new, nor is the story. Barry Seal may well have worked with the CIA. It is known that he asociated with Ferrie and organized crime. He was probably running guns to Central America and drugs back to the US, may have been part of Iran Contra. He eventually flew out of Mena, Arkansas. If you really want to be scared, look that up. He was gunned down in his car on his way to court.
The Redbird Airport story isn't new either. There were reports of planes leaving Redbird in the hours after the assassination. There doesn't appear to be any solid evidence to back up stories of Barry Seal being there, or any conspirators escaping from Dallas that way, but there was (coincidentally?) a flight out of Mexico City to Cuba that was held up, for more than an hour, for a mysterious connecting passenger to board, that coincide with an arrival from Dallas.
Redbird Airport - Albert Doyle - 17-06-2014
Seal was absolutely a part of Iran CONTRA. Read Evan Wright's 'American Desperado' to see how both the Medellin Cartel and CIA wanted Seal dead.
Redbird Airport - Peter Lemkin - 18-06-2014
Seal was NOT in or around Dallas on 11/22/63. That is absolute rubbish and likely disinformation - if not, very badly researched writing! The Redbird story has been discussed on this forum [and elsewhere] before - but a quick search didn't turn it up. [and I'm a little suspicious that this threat is number 1 on Google on RedBird and the truth I've put up before is not to be found..but we all know how Google and the NSA work hand in glove..]
I have spent years of my life chasing aspects of that story and don't have the energy to go over all that I've written about it again. Briefly, Plumlee claimed to have flown into and out of Red Bird [spelled both as one word and two, depending] on 11/22/63 and told me [20+ years ago] about Wayne January, the airport manager. Plumlee referred to a specific plane, later mentioned by January and some of Plumlee's story later matched that of January...some did not.
I contacted January 20+ years ago, and he was most reluctant to discuss anything about the events at the airport near 11/22/63! I thought that strange....indeed! It was [and still is] interesting that Plumlee did correctly know who was airport manager in 1963, but what I think is the truer story about January and RedBird didn't come out until after January died. January had told Matt Smith about and just before 11/20-22/63, and asked he NOT put out the full details out to anyone until he and his wife were dead. Matt did this, and you can find it in his book Conspiracy and one other of his JFK books. There he describes how January is met by a mysterious man who wants to buy an airplane at Redbird just before the events of Dallas - and it must be ready for flight by the morning of 11/22/63. While the pilot and January are working on the plane, the pilot casually mentions that JFK is going to be killed and names the day. January totally ignores this as idle talk until JFK IS killed, then he becomes afraid for the rest of his life...as he realizes that he sold and prepared a plane for a bunch of people who were connected to the JFK assassination.
Years later, the Vinson story, told in the Flight from Dallas made 'flights out of Dallas on 11/22/63' more complex and I'll not go into that - as it IS on this Forum, somewhere - even if Google doesn't want anyone to find it. In short, this was an Oswald look-alike who flew out of Dallas a few hours after the shooting, but NOT from Redbird, but from a plane [same type as Plumlee says he flew, same type as January prepared and sold] that landed very briefly on a road being built along the river, North of the Plaza area, but on the outskirts of Dallas - and that person flown to Roswell [yes, THAT Roswell] AFB - which was on lockdown, but allowed the plane to land.
I have asked Plumlee to help me untangle this Gordian Knot, but he has begged off doing so. While I believe it very likely that Plumlee was a co-pilot involved in a flight that day out of Dallas [in that day to Garland; out possibly from Redbird], I am more convinced by the version told by January in Smith's book, and think that the flight from the Trinity River to Roswell likely also took place.
That neither, or should I say all three versions, were not investigated by the 'official' dis-investigation shouldn't surprise anyone! Those hired to do the assassination and muddy the waters were all allowed both free infiltration, execution of their job, and exfiltration - that is clear! Some left by plane, for sure. Others left other ways.
Plumlee and Seal did know each other very well, and flew together during Iran-Contra days - but knew each other before and until Seal was murdered. Plumlee is bitter about Seal's murder.
There is much more to say on this. I have not looked at the article referenced, as I KNOW it is 101% false. If anyone has questions, I'll try to answer. I'll also try to find my previous longer detailing of this aspect of Dallas.
As recently as a few weeks ago, and perhaps 50 times over the last 20 years, I have asked Tosh to help me figure out why the January version and his overlap, but do not FIT - but as I have said, he has always declined to do so. He [Plumlee] did spend a long time in a Federal prison on a trumped-up charge and with an INDEFINITE length sentence shortly after his flight back to Florida from Dallas. He says for asking too many damn questions about what happened in Dallas. He was told that he'd not get out of prison until he stopped talking/asking about Dallas. His 'parole' officer was [he says] CIA or 'intelligence'. Shortly after Plumlee got out of prison on a bad-check charge he was given a HUGE amount of money to buy a plane and fly for the Company, as a proprietary. Go figure.
I believe Redbird WAS used in the plot and did infiltrate a few and exfiltrated many more operatives. Read January's account by Smith. Smith got a sworn affidavit from January on this. That Plumlee also knew parts that match January's story and parts that do not, is still relevant, but I can't do much more with it if Plumlee won't help. I have my opinions, but am not going to put them here and now. I'm also inclined to believe that the Vinson story - or some version very close to it - is also true.
Dallas was a very strange magic show - with many double persons and events - with professional misdirection of attention [then and still]. Seal had nothing to do with Dallas. Seal was a spook and a pilot, but on other ops.
Redbird Airport - Peter Lemkin - 18-06-2014
Wow...I looked at the article referenced and HAD to say a bit more. I like Hopsicker and am sorry he got so very much wrong in this article. I hardly know where to begin - it is like one of those children's pictures 'how many things can you find wrong in this picture?' Answer: too many to even go into here! A few - and only a few!:
- That famous or infamous photo has Seal and Goss and Rodriguez, and many other interesting persons in it...but, the person hiding his face, partially, with his jacket is Plumlee NOT Sturgis!
- Yes, there was a report about a small plane at Redbird, but that was yet another diversion, and I didn't even mention it in my post above. January, Plumlee, the man January met who told him JFK was about to be killed when he visited Dallas all were talking about a much larger plane [C-47] leaving Dallas in the hours after the shooting. [Vinson was on a C-54.]
- While many [not all] individual items in the 'story' are true, the way they are connected shows that Hopsicker shouldn't dabble in the JFK assassination - its too complex for amateurs. He should stick with his other materials, which he knows more about. I don't know if Hopsicker just got it wrong not being a specialist in JFK matters - or he was steered to 'get it wrong' - either way he got it wrong! He left out completely [as have I] the 'Oswald' and friends wanting to rent a plane for the 22nd.....and it is gone into in Smith's book - as January was the one approached by the 'Oswald' look-alike and friends. It was, like the shooting range and the car dealership drive and so many other such - just another set-up of the patsy by the real plotters' operatives.
Redbird Airport - Peter Lemkin - 18-06-2014
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6084[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]6083[/ATTACH]
And the one of the several threads on RedBird can be found here.
Redbird Airport - Albert Doyle - 18-06-2014
Peter Lemkin Wrote:- That famous or infamous photo has Seal and Goss and Rodriguez, and many other interesting persons in it...but, the person hiding his face, partially, with his jacket is Plumlee NOT Sturgis!
Sorry Peter. That can't be.
Go to the enlarged photo of the man with his face hidden and look at his irises. Although the picture is in black and white the man with his face covered has brown colored eyes.
Now go to Google images and look at Tosh Plumlee's eyes. He has blue colored irises. Very blue.
Even though the photo of the man with his face covered is in black and white Tosh's eyes are so blue that they would definitely not register as dark as the irises of the man with his face covered. There's no doubt that the man with his face covered has brown eyes. That excludes Tosh Plumlee I'm afraid.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1253&bih=658&q=Tosh+Plumlee&oq=Tosh+Plumlee&gs_l=img.3..0l2j0i5l2j0i24l6.2215.5320.0.6958.12.12.0.0.0.0.156.1267.6j6.12.0....0...1ac..47.img..0.12.1267.hugFDN71xMU#imgdii=_
.
Redbird Airport - Peter Lemkin - 18-06-2014
I know Plumlee well and met with him for many years. I have photos of him from all through his life. That is him...and he has admitted it is him [but that alone doesn't absolutely mean it is so!!!] He has named the date and the occasion to me - and even that Hopsicker got wrong or was told wrong. Eye color/shade is the easiest thing to tamper with in a photo and we know how intelligence-related photos can be tampered with - but can also just change with ambient lighting and flash, etc. Besides, knowing the nature of the meeting and the others there, Plumlee would fit, and Sturgis would not. In your google search url above, even that photo is listed! Check out the hairline and face structure. If it is not Plumlee, it is someone other than Sturgis...but my bet and belief and word from Plumlee is it is Plumlee.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]6085[/ATTACH] Plumlee [ATTACH=CONFIG]6086[/ATTACH]
Sturgis [ATTACH=CONFIG]6087[/ATTACH]
Redbird Airport - Albert Doyle - 18-06-2014
Maybe.
If you look at the hair in the photo of the older Plumlee the distance across his forehead from the hair on both sides is shorter than the same distance on photos of Sturgis. The forehead distance between side hair matches Sturgis more than Plumlee. So do the eyes.
I'm not saying it's 100% Sturgis. That's hard to prove. Forgery would call off all bets.
Anyway, if we have a government that puts CIA agents in charge as parole officers and threatens citizens with further jail time for threatening to expose their murder of Kennedy then we have a Nazi government that needs to be overthrown.
Isn't forgery detectable?
Redbird Airport - Drew Phipps - 18-06-2014
If you have a "front on" picture of Plumlee with eyes open I can get a pixel ratio between width of nose (at the specific point crossed by the coat) and distance between pupils. That may not be a perfect biometric measurement but it might be more consistent with one or the other of them. Small numbers of pixels in these photos means a higher margin of error.
Data: Hide photo: eyes 18 pixels, nose 5 pixels, ratio =~.278
Sturgis photo: eyes 22 pixels, nose between 6, 6.5 pixels, ratio = .272-.295 (from post above)
Sturgis photo (from below) eyes 49 pixels nose 14 pixels, ratio = .286
Plumlee photo eyes 25 pixels nose between 6.5, 7 pixels, ratio= .26 - .28
found this one, is it him?[ATTACH=CONFIG]6088[/ATTACH]
heres a better photo of Sturgis for pixel counting [ATTACH=CONFIG]6089[/ATTACH]
Neither of them are excluded by the pixel counting. Sturgis' nose is almost too wide to be the hiding man, and Plumlee's is almost too narrow. I do note that Plumlee's eyes in the color photo appear to be darker than blue. (if that's really him).
The hiding man in the original photo has his face angled slightly to the right of the camera, which would tend to make the measured ration slightly larger than the actual nose size. Plus, if that jacket is exerting any pressure on the nose it would look wider not narrower. After looking at the Sturgis mug shot, pixel counting favors Plumlee as the hiding man.
If this guy isn't Plumlee then maybe you have a more pixel friendly photo of him from the front with eyes open.
Edit: Using .pdf of Plumlee from below post I get a ratio of .283, still close enough to be the hiding man but far closer to Sturgis than I expected. So at this point the nose/eye ration is kind of a toss up, with Plumlee's being closer but both falling within any pixel counting range of error of the Hiding Man. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.