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Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - Tosh Plumlee - 24-04-2009
(note I brought this forward from another thread and topic... the reason ?
I would like to know if others have examples of some researchers or FBI investigations in the past or present have been caught playing 'fast and loose with the truth' in reference to their investigations... Just the facts please... no gossip or I thinks so's..., or they could have been's.... below is one example from my own background: I hope some will take the time to read the attatchments and then give me their views or take:
"... I would like to point out something which is in my FBI files in reference to "hot checks". I hope the documents come out on the attachments below.
"... http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/ar...50&relPageId=2
FBI file generated by SAC in Cincinnati indicates
Tosh was arrested in Columbus, Ohio on Jan. 29, 1959 for passing a forged check at Morehouse Fashions. (Wrong)
The FBI prepared a dossier on him indicating he was born in Panama City, FL on 11-25-37; father was William W. Plumlee of Dallas, TX and mother Margaret J. Morgan of 3509 Lexington in Dallas. He had two half brothers (Morgan) and left high school in 10th grade and completed school in Army. He was married, had two sons and a daughter and divorced in 1958...".
It seems years ago when some got hold of these documents, they failed to include all of them which made reference:
#1 ".... he (Plumlee ) was arrested in Columbus Ohio by local authorities attempting to pass a forged check at Morehouse Fashions..."..
(ref; attatchments) (wrong)
#2 ".. when Mr. Plumlee was arrested by Customs he had a plane load of guns bound for Cuba and was turned over to local authorities...".
(ref; attatchmenmts) (right)
#3 " ... the FBI Lab could not find any checks written which could be attributed to Plumlee...". (ref; attatchments) (right)
Point #4 There has never been an arrest record found in Columbus Ohio at the Columbus County Workhouse, stating the Mr. Plumlee was in custody at that facility. Why did the FBI report I was being held there? (right)
Another interesting point I feel should be brought forward is: When the files went to MF, why was only the one document included in the record... and that one being that I wrote (forged) hot checks in Columbus Ohio. And the other FBI documents were omitted which stated otherwise.
Those other documents, clearly stated: “no checks could be found written by Plumlee, That document was not included with the other one page document or other material?.
Also, after all these years... why has the record not been reported right or corrected? Why has the other supporting documentation not been brought forward and included within the complete document file which is and has been posted for sometime on the 'Mary Ferrel" website?
Why is it still being reported today, to the research comunity, that I passed "hot" forged checks in Ohio in 1959?...and was not engaged in military covert operations as I had stated to federal officials in 1959 and congressional committees in , 1975, 1987, 1990 and 1991 and 2002?
Now from my point of view. Why was the arrest in Columbus not reported right? The record established by the FBI during that time was, I had "written bad checks" and that is why I was arrested in Columbus and too, they went into a very long report sent to many field officies of why I was in Columbus Jail when in fact I had been flying guns into Cuba and later (Feb 59) training with the United States Army at the "Jungle Warfare Training Center (JWTC) in Hawaii.
I have pointed this out to many researchers over the years, but they have had their our theories and it would fit better for them and their theories, for me to be just a little bittie penney check writter, ... while in fact, I had been flying guns to Fidel Castro's Revolution in 1957; 1958; and 1959, before Castro and his 26th of July Revolution arrived in Havana.
I hope some here will take the time to read this stuff instead of taking the governments false report and somebodys "gossip" as facts without investigating the material. This is one reason I do not trust very many researchers and government offcials. The record is not accurate and factual as the federal documentation indicates.
Again I make my statement; The FBI-- has in the past, and perhaps even now- played fast and loose with the truth and I think the record justifies this statement.
Your Views?
[Would anybody care to coment on this information after they have read the attatchments?]
Again XXX thanks for your time and dedication toward the truth. It is much appreciated by me..... Tosh
Attached Files (these files have been on the toshplumlee.info site for a number of years now... and there free for viewing... also that site is not my site but there my documents (some of them)
http://toshplumlee.info/
![[Image: pdf.gif]](http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/images/attach/pdf.gif)
checks 3.pdf (391.9 KB, 4 views) [arrested by local authorites]Hot checks 1.pdf (593.8 KB, 3 views)[ arrested by Customs)hot checks2.pdf (526.1 KB, 2 views) No arrest record at Columbus Jail]check4.pdf (435.5 KB, 2 views) [no checks found]note: the documents below, in the attatchments, are the files destoryed by the FBI. There have been more since the recorded date of 1981: some of those early 1964 destoryed FBI documents, should have gone to the Warren Commision and later to the HSCA in 1976. Only the files that were not complete went to the HSCA and those were slanted to discredit the source found in the files... . To me it raises the question of WHY?
In my view it proves that the FBI and the Department of Justice (and others) knew there was a conspiracy to assassinate JFK. Why else would they destory files and tamper with a witness?
Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - Linda Minor - 25-04-2009
Tosh,
The quoted text in your post was made by me in another thread based on a search I made in Mary Ferrell on the word "redbird". I did not do a full search of your name. I'm not exactly sure who you were referring to in the post here:
Quote:Also, after all these years... why has the record not been reported right or corrected? Why has the other supporting documentation not been brought forward and included within the complete document file which is and has been posted for sometime on the 'Mary Ferrel" website?
Why is it still being reported today, to the research comunity, that I passed "hot" forged checks in Ohio in 1959?...and was not engaged in military covert operations as I had stated to federal officials in 1959 and congressional committees in , 1975, 1987, 1990 and 1991 and 2002?
Now from my point of view. Why was the arrest in Columbus not reported right? The record established by the FBI during that time was, I had "written bad checks" and that is why I was arrested in Columbus and too, they went into a very long report sent to many field officies of why I was in Columbus Jail when in fact I had been flying guns into Cuba and later (Feb 59) training with the United States Army at the "Jungle Warfare Training Center (JWTC) in Hawaii.
I have pointed this out to many researchers over the years, but they have had their our theories and it would fit better for them and their theories, for me to be just a little bittie penney check writter, ... while in fact, I had been flying guns to Fidel Castro's Revolution in 1957; 1958; and 1959, before Castro and his 26th of July Revolution arrived in Havana.
Mary Ferrell's website has 123 hits on the name "plumlee." Anyone can open the urls, but only members can search the website. Membership is not expensive.
I am unable at this time to do that research, since I am away from my home computer for the next week and will have limited time.
Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - Linda Minor - 25-04-2009
NARA Record Number: 124-10289-10035
Check pages before and after the urls below.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=70675&relPageId=12
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=70675&relPageId=14
Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - Tosh Plumlee - 25-04-2009
Yes Linda, I understand. Let me say you have done a fine job in pulling all the information together.
I have known about the MF material for a few years now and have ask a few years ago why all the documents pertaining to my background were not there... only the negative documents were obtained from various places and were posted in various locations. Sometime later, they were turned over to the MF site and other researchers, but not the complete record (the check incident I pointed out is one of many examples of incomplete documentations) I ask many people to see if they could find the documents I make reference... I was told "they did not exist".
However in reference to the checks, of which the FBI made reference, only the section saying I had been arrested at More House Fashions attempting to pass a forged check, and was arrested my local authorities was the only documents found.
The other reports.. being arrest by Customs with an aircraft loaded with guns, as well as the FBI lab report saying they could not find any checks written by me, was not included in the file.
When I question why I was being reported as a "hot check writer" by various researchers and explained that there were other documents which proved otherwise and should be included with the negative document, I was told to send them (MF and others) the documents and they would be put with the record. I did that and they were never put with the record or file. Some years later I read in a book that said I had written hot checks all across the country and was not what I claimed.
The check incident is only one incident, of which I pointed out to many over the years, and I accused the FBI and others of holding back information on my background so as to discredit me and my activities. In some cases this was done in order for some to prove their theories and to get publishing contracts and books on their theories, What I had to say about military/CIA operations was therefore not creditable. They had the FBI which had said I was arrested for hot checks when I had said I was flying operations for the government. I have always asked, "What was their motive for this?
Linda you have done a very good job in pulling some of this together. In my opinion you are the first researcher that has even taken the time to really look into most of the material that is scattered in the public domain concerning me.
I know some will say well I worked my ass off trying to prove what you have said... well all I can say to them is, "well you did not look very hard"... the check incident is one glaring example of many that most researchers have missed... In my opinion I think some of them missed it on purpose... for whatever reasons.....
I do not plan to get sucked back into the JFK mess ever again. Anything I have had to say on that can of worms has been said, public, and to various government committees; because some of the details are.., still classified, I can't help that and too,I have no control over any of that.
So Linda, My post was not direct toward you in any negative way. You have at least done something in regard to truth... beside just asking me questions after questions and telling me your speculations and then presented them as FACTS that go nowhere except for "entertainment purposes" for a select few. You have not done that and I thank you. Tosh
Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - Peter Lemkin - 25-04-2009
Tosh, long ago we went through all this and yes the FBI and other agencies lied or so confused the facts as to create a misrepresentation of the truth about your bad checks in Ohio and again in Colorado - along with other information on you. This is far from unique. It is an agency, along with the CIA and others that can not be simply taken at its word - in public pronouncements nor even its own classified documents without supporting evidence and a lot of research. Here is a very good video series on the lies of the FBI on the MLK assassination and civil rights movement. Endless cases could be cited - a lifetimes work. Hoover denied getting the certified letter Nagell sent warning of the impending assassination of JFK and mention of Oswald and others, by name. [just to name one other]
Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - Tosh Plumlee - 25-04-2009
"... misrepresentation of the truth about your bad checks in Ohio and again in Colorado ...". Pete there were no bad checks....
... if you knew that then why didn't you come forward and point these discrepincies out about the checks and other matters... its only been about 19 years that you have known about these documents concerning the checks (that did not exist) and the FBI cover up.... You and Marrs both say you know these things go on but you let it ride even when some were calling me a liar... you have said 'Yes, Tosh told me that" , here say... why did you not come forward with the documentation that you had and have and have said you have?... why did'nt you point these false information facts pertaining to the false FBI reports to those who were interested and ask you..
Pete your good at telling people what THEY should do, and how to do it... when are you going to do something beside chat and talk and complain about the system... The bus is leaving the terminal and I do not see you on it... Now don't tell me to 'Chill'.
Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - David Guyatt - 25-04-2009
I also know of another clendestine operative who was stictched up in a similar fashion -- actually two of them, albeit the first not by the FBI but by customs as I recall.
This seems to be a standard technique to discredit people so that the MSM can use that disinformation to trash any story/ies later appearing.
Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - Peter Lemkin - 25-04-2009
It is my caual observation that all medium and low-level agents, assets, scovert opseratives, mechanics, etc. are set-up with some fake criminal 'record'. These are often kept secret, until needed to discredit and distance - even put pressure to keep their mouths shut, or shut them away in prison. Tosh certainly made me aware of several done to him and others have told me similar, written about it, or had it recorded by other researchers. It seems to be SOP. Perhaps the ultimate was Tosh's group of covert operatives who worked out of prison, literally. If they had been caught they would have been claimed to have been escaped prisoners doing something on their own. If needed to silence, they could be moved from the privilaged section to the real prisoner section in a heartbeat.
Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - Magda Hassan - 25-04-2009
Peter Lemkin Wrote:It is my casual observation that all medium and low-level agents, assets, covert operatives, mechanics, etc. are set-up with some fake criminal 'record'.
I would suggest that it is not just low to medium level. It is a practice used against different factions regardless of position. Elliot Spitzer comes to mind most recently. How many politicians, heads of departments etc. have had to go to the media saying "I'm resigning because I would like to spend more time with my family"? How many stayed on to do the work of others?
Organised crime was supposed to have had the goods on J. Edna Hoover en flagrante.
Certainly it is common amongst the criminal underworld, which includes black operatives, the threat of a conviction or jailing for leverage regardless of whether a crime has been committed by the person or not. Police are not above acting criminally and abusing their power for their own ends or others.
Some times the file is 'lost' or the 'evidence' goes missing. Some times they end up in the slammer. All is fair in love and war and it is war for these players.
At the end of the day its about power, appearances, access, manipulation, deniability and did I say power?
Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth - Tosh Plumlee - 25-04-2009
Yes Peter, thanks.
Perhaps you can tell what happen when we went on a search for documents in Denver?
If I remember right we never found all of the court records.. or the 50$ hot check that was said I had wrote in Denver, which I went to the Colorado State Reformatory over in 1964. We did not find all of those court records showing the reasons for the sentencing.
I was in Lock Up at the Denver County jail for three months, before receiving an "Indeffinite sentence to the Colorado State Reformatory (not prison) This was all done in a court of law. The court records we did find said the reason for the sentencing was I had wrote a fifty dollar check at 'King Soopers Food Srore"..in Denver, even though I was in jail in Florida at the time the check was written, waiting to be extradited to Colorado on the check charge.
I was sentenced to jail on a bad check that was never produced in any court. This was about one month after the assassination of Kennedy when I was extradicted from Florida to Colorado to stand trial on that check (Jan 64 to April 1965 in lock up at the reformatory)
Also the FBI reports does not mention that the Denver FBI came to the reformatory three times within six months to question me about Dallas SAC Scott Warner, the agent in charge of the Denver office told me I would never get out unless I stopped tell my BS stories about the Kennedy assassination. I am not sure if you remember all this. I sure as hell do. I was released from custody three weeks after the Warren Commission completed there findings.
The record had been established. I could be used, at a later date, in any type covert operations, because if I ever talked about them who would believe them. Also the record shows that that arrest and jail time is not on my "rap sheet" today.
I think the record of 1964 FBI report also said I had an IQ of 82 a little above an idiot, although I flew and worked on many different aircraft when I was in my twenties. Time and the released of classified documentation from the CIA and other government agencies prove I was asociated with military intellengce and the CIA for a number of years..... For the CIA to have someone working for them with an IQ of 82, and flying their airplanes does not say much for the CIA does it.
Symore Herst had it almost right a few weeks ago, when he mentioned specialized crews operating from the White house (or something like that)as well as Ex CIA Station Chief of Angola, John Stockwell's book. "Praetorian Guard", If you notice you do not hear much anymore about Hurst article, or john's book.
Below is one of the aircraft that I ferried to Miami from Arizona as mentioned in previous FBI documents. This was a few months before the BoP and about a year after the so called arrest in Columbus Ohio with a aircraft full of guns for castro.
Not bad for a kid with an IQ of eighty something in reference to another FBI document of the time..