Tom Scully Wrote:Even more riveting than Peter Janney's third rewrite of his discredited fantasy? What does "properly done" even mean? Given what is unsupported speculation vs. actual evidence after 50 years, how could a documentary of Kilgallen's death

and motives making it likely a murder and thorough cover up of the murder and of all unique mitigating Kilgallen investigative material actually be less exploitive or more convincing than Janney's Mary's Mosaic?

Everyone is attracted to a good story but discerning the weight of the evidence and the actual strength of the speculation brings only a yawn.

Albert Doyle Wrote:That's the problem with you Jim, you ignore good evidence in order to return to a foisted demand for strict evidence. This type of CT "skepticism" is very little different in method and approach from Bugliosi. Your bias is shown in your comparing of Kilgallen, a career journalist with a professional journalism background, with Janney, a psychotherapist whose only motivation in writing his book was to inform the public of his insider experience. In my opinion a more objective analyzer would take in to account Janney's background and conspiracy analysis skill level and apply a fair scale to it in order to evaluate his legitimacy. What I see with you and Tom is two flaw-seeking advantage-takers seeking to discredit Janney while ignoring his good evidence. If you are only seeking flaws you will find them in Janney because he doesn't have the CT experience and wisdom that some veteran critics have. It is not a fair match-up and is not reasonable to hold Janney accountable to the level of CT skill you possess. However, in the many years we have been discussing Janney I have yet to see either you or Tom respond to the good evidence Janney produced like Toni Shimon or Mitchell making up a phony University funding source for his hiatus in England. It's pretty clear Mitchell was gotten out of town to a safe ally where his credibility was compromised by making him a hippy. And no matter how much you two use Damore to deny it, Janney did credibly show that Mitchell used CIA safe-houses and cover jobs, the pattern of a real spook. You and Tom don't don't seem to understand how evidence works. You guys can trumpet what you think are flaws in Janney, however the "little-bit-pregnant" rule dictates that once you find legitimate evidence it can't be cancelled-out by other failures. It just doesn't work the way you and Tom are trying to force. I thought this was a commonly understood premise of Deep Political analysis. You and Tom try to dominate the Janney issue with your attacks on his Mitchell claims while ignoring the fact he witnessed highly incriminating behavior first hand in his father pretending not to have known Mary Meyer was dead, even though he collected evidence to show his father had known hours earlier. That's where the efforts of credible analyzers should be, in my opinion.


The implications of this are not unsubstantial. What is at stake here is a very real and significant CIA black operation assassination might go unregistered because of you and Tom's backwards efforts. Frankly I think you are getting carried away with your otherwise excellent critical abilities and losing sight of the bigger picture. What I'm seeing in that bigger picture is you endorsing the denial of important assassination conspiracy evidence like Ralph Yates and Janney. If you look at the stated purpose of Deep Political analysis it is supposed to be dedicated to finding the correct record on the assassination. Wrong-headed denial of very real and meaningful assassination events works directly against that purpose. For god's sake Jim you are openly endorsing one of the most dubious assassination research organizations to ever form while trying to rally an animus against me for following the correct Deep Political line. To me there's a sharp contrast in your endorsement of that bogus group with your assumed dedication to rigor that you suggest here. In my opinion your critical analysis skill would be better spent on ROKC where there is practically an unlimited opportunity to point out flawed claims. Oh, and I read every word of your article. I'm wondering if that is true for yourself however in the Murphy issue since we are still waiting for a response from you on Davidson's metadata.


Also, no good movie can come from someone who intends to assert the Marcello mafia-did-it angle. In any case, this subject would be aided by finding the source of the off-duty cop bartender getting a large amount of money shortly after Kilgallen's death. I tried to find it but couldn't. I wouldn't doubt that it was removed from Google, like such information tends to be.

Quote:http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/19016-albarellis-a-secret-order/&page=2#comment-274713
Guest Tom Scully
Posted May 28, 2013
......
This is some fancy writing on Peter Janney's part, he dances around, even sharing with us the coincidence that his friend and fellow author, H.P. Albarelli, once resided at 1500 Arlington Blvd., as if to give the impression that Albarelli, too is supporting Janney's claim that 1500 Arlington Blvd. was a CIA safehouse.
Considering that Janney emphasized, in his, WHAT ARE YOU CRAZY? I AM PETER JANNEY, DO NOT CRITICIZE ME, scold of Jim and Lisa, that he now had three sources confirming that 1500 Arlington Blvd. was a CIA safehouse, read closely and you will find there is one name providing confirmation that 1500 Arlington Blvd. was a CIA safehouse.
So with just one source for this "fact" aside from the very questionable old assertions from Leo Damore, allegedly quoting the 74 years old, "aka William L. Mitchell," Peter Janney misled all who read his recent condemnation of Jim and Lisa by claiming he had three confirming sorces.:

Quote:Astronautics & Aeronautics - Volume 2 - Page 274
https://books.google.com/books?id=yF0qAQAAMAAJ
1964 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
Home; 309 Oak Park Dr. , Tullahoma (A) WELSH, DR. EDWARD C., Exec. Secy., NASA Hq., Washington, D.C, Home: 1500 Arlington Blvd. , Arlington, Va. (

Tom Scully Wrote:

Albert Doyle Wrote:

Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Tom:

Did you drop that utterly fascinating observation made by Culto?

In her desperation to acquit her client in all aspects, it appears that Roundtree manufactured an alibi witness for him?

I thought that was really compelling.

That case was not just a case to her. It was a cause in which she was wedded to getting her client off, even if she had to, let us say, upholster evidence.

There's lots of evidence Crump was innocent. Wiggins felt like he was lured there to witness something. The broken down car mysteriously had no record of its existence or work order. The murder scene almost certainly required blood spatter and gunpowder residue. Both Crump and his clothes came up negative. The scene was meticulously scoured yet no murder weapon was ever discovered. Janney showed that there were witnesses to Leary's investigation of Mary Meyer's death at the time. Why would Timothy Leary take extraordinary measures to travel to New York to investigate Mary Meyer's murder if he didn't have any relationship with her? Ann Chamberlin admitted to being a member of Mary Meyer's Washington LSD group but then spooked when pressed on it. Mitchell was caught lying about his funding source for his hiatus in England. He did live at a CIA safe house and did work at a known CIA cover job facility.

These are off the top of my head. If we go back to Janney we'll find more like Angleton's curiosity over Meyer's diary. Angleton was the safe-cracker like with Win Scott who was known to go after dangerous documents personally. Something was going on there and Janney personally witnessed his father faking lack of knowledge of Meyer's death as well as other incriminating timing.

Joe Shimon was practically open about it with his daughter Toni and CIA operatives Janney talked to admitted Mary Meyer was one of their jobs.

I see a similarity in modus operandi between Sirhan and Crump. CIA doesn't give a damn Crump got off. They got what they wanted.

Quote:

Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. ...

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1629143162

Peter Janney - 2013 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, Mary Pinchot Meyer, and Their Vision for World Peace Peter Janney ... 10 Mitchell also gave his addressas 1500 Arlington Boulevard, Arlington,Virginiaa buildingknownas the Virginian.

Astronautics & Aeronautics - Volume 2 - Page 274

https://books.google.com/books?id=yF0qAQAAMAAJ
1964 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
Home; 309 Oak Park Dr. , Tullahoma (A) WELSH, DR. EDWARD C., Exec. Secy., NASA Hq., Washington, D.C, Home: 1500 Arlington Blvd. , Arlington, Va. (

I have put that information and those concerns in front of this particular individual, but it gave him no pause.



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/truth
3 a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality



Peter Janney on 22 November, 2013 told his Santa Barbara audience (podcast link) (at 1:47.38, Janney: ."and that case is still in adjudication...") of his "important" wrongful death lawsuit he had filed against Crump witness William L. Mitchell. Janney indicated to his audience that this lawsuit was active and its outcome would yield new information. it is troubling that Janney's attorney William Pepper had filed a motion in DC court on 18 November, four days before, to dismiss this same lawsuit WITH PREJUDICE. The image off thie court filings can be viewed:

Washington DC court records display the fact that on 18 Novemberm 2013 Janney dismissed his lawsuit against William L Mitchell, is which Janney had claimed Mary Meyer was his "surrogate mother: by filing a motion for dismissal with prejudice with that court. Janney's motion for dismissal was granted on 2 Dec, 2013 by Judge Anthony C. Epstein. :

Court Cases Online - D.C. Courts

https://www.dccourts.gov/cco/maincase.jsf


Searching by name. Enter either a combination of last name and first name.....



Janney could have conceded in August, 2012, when I first presented this.:





Ten months later, in Peter Janney's revised, paperback edition of Mary's Mosaic, I read this false claim:

Quote:

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1629143162

Peter Janney - 2013 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
Discussing hiscritical post of Mary's Mosaic inan emailtoa University ofGeorgia law professor, Scully identified himself as ... I discoveredthat William Mitchell's middle name was "Lockwood," therebygivingus another needed pieceofthe puzzle ...

INSTEAD, the ethics deprived Janney has claimed in his paperback book edition that HE discovered that Mitchell earned an MS at Harvard and has the middle name, Lockwood. If you've listened to the
21 November, 2012 podcast time marks I linked to, you can observe that Janney himself could not verify Mitchell's Harvard attendance, one of several details he learned of through me, along with
Mitchell's middle name, which I had disclosed in early August, 2012.

In addtion to the "problems" I describe at the bottom of this post, in my "sig," there is also this to ponder over.:

Quote:https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/burleigh-private.html
CHAPTER ONE A Very Private WomanThe Life and Unsolved Murder of Presidential Mistress Mary Meyer
MURDER IN GEORGETOWN.....................
Mary Draper Janney, a dark-eyed historian who taught at a private suburban Washington day school, had roomed with Mary at Vassar. She retained her 1940s style into the 1960s, even though she was married and the mother of three children, and her students thought of her as a capital-city version of Lauren Bacall, with her rumpled, mannish suits, whiskey voice, and habit of lighting up cigarettes in class. She was married to CIA man Wistar Janney. Mary Janney sat in a pew near another Vassar classmate, the bouncy blond Scottie Fitzgerald Lanahan--F. Scott Fitzgerald's daughter--and her husband, Washington attorney Jack Lanahan......

http://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2018/New%20York%20NY%20Sun/New%20York%20NY%20Sun%201943/New%20York%20NY%20Sun%201943%20-%201157.pdf


In Gatsby's Shadow: The Story of Charles Macomb Flandrau

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=1587295156
Larry Haeg - 2004 - ‎Biography & Autobiography
Cornelius Van Ness, co-owner with Tom Boyd of St. Paul's Kil marnock ... home on three acres in New Canaan, Connecticut, where Van Ness spent the rest of ...




How do you suppose Mr. Cogswell of Scarsdale, living less than a mile from the home of Fitzgerald's book agent, Harold Ober, knew of the Van Nesses? Could it have been through his Phillips Exeter schoolmate, Richard Ober, son of Harold? The family Fitzgerald's daughter, Scottie, resided with while she attended school in Scarsdale?

There is also this, and there is a link to F. Scott Firzgerald, although more improbable than the Cogswell "thing".

Quote:C_I_A_operatorAugust 12, 2014 at 4:34 PM

Your statement that the Russian people are a great people, particularly for having defeated the Nazis and other fascists....
This is an insane statement, and particularly for anyone who served in national security in the cold war.
Almost every government figure I knew except for the Jews Walt Rostow and his assassin buddy David Strier, believed that Nazisim and fascism [which are two different things] were much preferable to Stalinism......

Be inventive, be original, trust no one, not even the son of the personnel manager of the CIA who took the minutes of the meeting of Ray Rocca fretting over the fate of Clay Shaw.......

Jim DiEugenio Wrote:What I meant was that Shaw's spin on Kilgallen's death and her investigation is not supported by the evidence.

If you read my review, which apparently you have not, he jumps to the conclusion that since she visited New Orleans and then was going to return, that she was inquiring into Marcello. There was no evidence for that since her JFK file disappeared.

That part of Shaw's book is Janney like, for reasons stated in my review.

But there is a qualitative difference in the two cases. Because, unlike with the Mary M case, we do know that Kilgallen did have such an investigative file and she was actively researching the JFK case. The record in that regard is abundant.

If whoever makes the documentary sticks to the adduced record, it could be very interesting. Because in another difference with Janney, Kilgallen had a past history in the field. As I showed in my review, she did a nice job in the Sheppard case.

At the end of my review, I link to Sara Jordan's excellent article. If the documentary follows that essay, I think it would be good.

The trail by Kilgallen after the taping of the last show should have been thoroughly investigated by the police, that is from the bar, to the hotel to her home. It was not. In fact, there was not even an inquest to nail down how the drugs were administered and what the manner of death was--accident, suicide, homicide, natural death.

Those are all real mysteries. Not only do I think it would make a good documentary, I would not mind participating in it.

Quote:https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/44016021/
July 5, 1972
The Salina Journal from Salina, Kansas · Page 8
After o fashion i f Time is the 2nd greatest gift, says Anne Debutante' 'lS Salina Journal Page 9 By Marian, Christy NEW YORK - Bikinied, 100-pound designer Anne Fogarty was lying on a chaise lounge sunning on the elegant rooftop of her 5,-story East Side tqwnhouse and observing that time was man's 2nd greatest gift -- after health. "Even money is useless if you don't have time to spend it wisely," says rich widow Anne whose 2nd husband, Richard Kollmar, once was married to columnist Dorothy Kilgallen. The chic townhouse, which Anne is redesigning in white-brown and steel, once belonged to Richard and Dorothy. People always are asking Anne if she isn't haunted by memories indigenous to that house. Richard dropped dead there on Christmas Eve 4 years ago while decorating the banisters with holly. And Anne had attended many posh parties there when she was divorced from her first husband and Dorothy and Richard were concerned about her "aloneness." Enjoying cling "Time has made it very clear that I'm comfortable in this environment," says Anne who was born in Pittsburgh and got started in fashion as a model. "Allthe memories are pleasant and I'm enjoying the cling." Anne is hepped up about the element of time these days because she is creating a small gold watch collection ($75-$200) for Marvin Co. of Switzerland which will be in stores coast to coast by Christmas. "Time really rules life," says Anne who'll only wear Dick's watch, a Patik Phillippe face which she had set in a wide band of nail- head-punctuated brown suede. There are no large timepieces in the townhouse. "Time is the inevitable route between life and death," says Anne with profound simplicity. She and millions like her prefer not to have grim reminders of disappearing days looming around. Household timepieces are in her future -and will be designed in offbeat ways. "There's no reason why a timepiece can't be a conversation piece," she says. One idea Anne is working on is a small clock that is a telephone attachment and rings automatically when a 3-minute conversation is terminated. Anne hates long conversations that say nothing. "The art of direct conversation must be perfected by Americans who waste time littering and listening to nonsense," says Anne. "This device will help them use time wisely." , The other Fogarty clock is portable and set in lucite. This number doubles as a paperweight and can be transported to strategic places in a home. "Sometimes a person wants to forget that time is running out," says Anne. "When Time on her m i n d Anne Fogarty designs the gingham check lucite cube watch, above, and the safety pin watch, below. that's the mood, the portable clock can be ditched somewhere and forgotten." Signature Elegantes who have worn Anne Fogarty clothes know that her signature is a safety pin. It started when she was modeling and the button burst off her bouffant petticoat. She instantly pinned it on and pirouetted superbly. She's convinced the pin in time saved her career. With her first pay check, she bought a solid gold safety pin and wore it as jewelry. Eventually, when she started designing, she'd put costume jewelry safety pins on collars. "I always figured a girl could use a safety pin if a zipper burst or a button went. It's practical ornamentation. Women understood," - The first Anne Fogarty watch on the market will be a solid-gold safety pin with the clock set in the head and the bracelet a thin band of gold curving around the wrist. "People always have connected me with the safety pin," she says and gives her old mark a new twist. Uniform companies have succeeded in getting Anne to create fashionable career apparel for banks, waitresses and key punch operators. In an effort to simplify work clothes, Anne plans to attach a waterproof- shatterproof watch to the uniform so that it becomes an integral part of the fashion. "A watch, which represents time, becomes a part of you." says Anne. "In the morning, you don't ask yourself first which »A fcJti^Jfa^J».v)^il,.l,. hing in life to wear are 1/3 off at Downtown Store Hours: Weekdays 9-5 Thurs. 9-6 ring or bracelet shall I wear? You think: Where in heaven's name is my watch?" Despite all her concern with time, Anne is notorious for being late for meetings, dates, dinnerparties. Sometimes time should not figure in life's scheme of things -- especially when a woman is planning an important evening on the town. Anne hates watches with evening clothes. , "When I go out at night, I stay up late and want no reminder of pressures -- time included." Anne really has lots of "time" stories in ' store and, because she's designing watches, she's mulling them over. Recently she went to the opening of a 2nd Avenue pub called Hazard Powder Co. but the furniture hadn't arrived in time. The enterprising young owners invited everyone to sit on the carpeting and drink the bubbly. The invitation was so successful that there's still no furniture in thejilace. People come to sit on the floor Arab-style. "Sometimes when time runs out, it's for the best," is Anne's punchline. But, on the other side of the coin, she has regrets about decisions which, in retrospect, turned out to be time "wasted." When she returned from a Mexico trip, Richard Kollmar met her at the airport and proposed. He wanted to get married that day. Anne said no and pleaded to wait 5 weeks so she could design a beautiful pink wedding gown. "Now I think we could have had 5 more weeks together," is the hindsight remark. SU11 time slips away. Last week she was in Ogunquit, Me., with television model Julie Meade. The 2 friends got to talking about the pros and cons of Women's Liberation and pretty soon it was time for breakfast. "I never look at a watch if the company is pleasant and the dialogue is one-to-one," says Anne.

Quote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Fogarty#Personal_life_and_death

Personal life and death[edit]

Fogarty had two children with her first husband, Tom Fogarty. They were married for over 17 years, with Tom Fogarty working as an art teacher at Pratt Institute, New York.[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP] The marriage ended in divorce.
In 1967, Anne Fogarty married Richard Kollmar, Dorothy Kilgallen's widower. According to a 1971 interview Fogarty did with the syndicated newspaper columnist Marian Christy, Kollmar broke his shoulder in an accident at home on New Year's Day 1971, which caused a blood clot to develop, and he died "a month later" on Anne's birthday.[SUP][4][/SUP] The New York Times, The Washington Post and other newspapers, however, ran obituaries for Kollmar on January 9 and 10 of that year.[SUP][17][/SUP][SUP][18][/SUP] The Post reported on January 10 that Kollmar had "died in his sleep late Thursday [January 7]."[SUP][18][/SUP]
Fogarty was married a third time in 1977, to Wade O'Hara, but this marriage ended in divorce.[SUP][19][/SUP] She died of a heart attack in New York on January 15, 1980.[SUP][11][/SUP]

Quote:There's lots of evidence Crump was innocent. Wiggins felt like he was lured there to witness something. The broken down car mysteriously had no record of its existence or work order. The murder scene almost certainly required blood spatter and gunpowder residue. Both Crump and his clothes came up negative. The scene was meticulously scoured yet no murder weapon was ever discovered. Janney showed that there were witnesses to Leary's investigation of Mary Meyer's death at the time. Why would Timothy Leary take extraordinary measures to travel to New York to investigate Mary Meyer's murder if he didn't have any relationship with her? Ann Chamberlin admitted to being a member of Mary Meyer's Washington LSD group but then spooked when pressed on it. Mitchell was caught lying about his funding source for his hiatus in England. He did live at a CIA safe house and did work at a known CIA cover job facility.

These are off the top of my head. If we go back to Janney we'll find more like Angleton's curiosity over Meyer's diary. Angleton was the safe-cracker like with Win Scott who was known to go after dangerous documents personally. Something was going on there and Janney personally witnessed his father faking lack of knowledge of Meyer's death as well as other incriminating timing.

Joe Shimon was practically open about it with his daughter Toni and CIA operatives Janney talked to admitted Mary Meyer was one of their jobs.

I see a similarity in modus operandi between Sirhan and Crump. CIA doesn't give a damn Crump got off. They got what they wanted.