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Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - Printable Version

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Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - Alan Ford - 24-07-2017

The Lord hates idolatry, and hypocrites, and deceitful tongues, and drunkards.

Yet somehow he LOVES, Mrs. Reid, right?

I would not steer you wrong. Murphyism has been a mere sideline distraction, while Team JFK has been pushing the ball down the field- Barry Ernest & the Stroud document, Gerda Dunckel & the Couch film clip, Albert Doyle & the disassembly of the PrayerMan myth- these are some of the ground-gainers of recent times.

Mr. Murphy, and those exhibiting an open mind, rather than tunnel vision, has been the best thing to impact this murder mystery, and contribute to what really happened as oppose to a contrived script about what some people say happened. Mr. Murphy is a brilliant human being.

And despite all the abuse- for crying out loud, look at what Doyle has had to put up with, with ROKC's targeted attacks- so vile that their web carrier shut them down. And there's been a truckload of venom hurled at me.

I've yet to hurl anything at you, despite you making every attempt to do so to me (yet cry foul when you perceive others doing it to you) ?

Please see/read the bottom of post 98 (that wise gentleman sums it succinctly)


And all we basically want to accomplish is to give you correctness. To get the community back to square one, because it has been lost in regressiveness instead of progressiveness, because it is so in love with the incorrect theories of Sean Murphy that it is losing touch with reality. Epic stupidity that has metastasized to the highest echelons- what used to be the highest echelons. TSBD analysis is not their strong suit, to put it kindly.

Yet they are to able discern truth from fantasy...go figure.

That's enough. We have nothing more to discuss, and I will not be responding to any of your comments for at least 3 months.

Safe travels


Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - Ray Mitcham - 25-07-2017

Alan Ford Wrote:The Lord hates idolatry, and hypocrites, and deceitful tongues, and drunkards.

Yet somehow he LOVES, Mrs. Reid, right?

I would not steer you wrong. Murphyism has been a mere sideline distraction, while Team JFK has been pushing the ball down the field- Barry Ernest & the Stroud document, Gerda Dunckel & the Couch film clip, Albert Doyle & the disassembly of the PrayerMan myth- these are some of the ground-gainers of recent times.

Mr. Murphy, and those exhibiting an open mind, rather than tunnel vision, has been the best thing to impact this murder mystery, and contribute to what really happened as oppose to a contrived script about what some people say happened. Mr. Murphy is a brilliant human being.

And despite all the abuse- for crying out loud, look at what Doyle has had to put up with, with ROKC's targeted attacks- so vile that their web carrier shut them down. And there's been a truckload of venom hurled at me.

I've yet to hurl anything at you, despite you making every attempt to do so to me (yet cry foul when you perceive others doing it to you) ?

Please see/read the bottom of post 98 (that wise gentleman sums it succinctly)


And all we basically want to accomplish is to give you correctness. To get the community back to square one, because it has been lost in regressiveness instead of progressiveness, because it is so in love with the incorrect theories of Sean Murphy that it is losing touch with reality. Epic stupidity that has metastasized to the highest echelons- what used to be the highest echelons. TSBD analysis is not their strong suit, to put it kindly.

Yet they are to able discern truth from fantasy...go figure.

That's enough. We have nothing more to discuss, and I will not be responding to any of your comments for at least 3 months.

Safe travels

:Clap:Alan.


Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - Alan Ford - 25-07-2017

:Clap: right back @ the distinguished gentleman, Mr. Mitcham, enjoy your day sir. Cheers (disclaimer: pls note the cold, refreshing contents inside mugs do not infer I'm a drunkard, merely conveying a sense of camaraderie with a classy gentleman in the JFK Research Community I've come to respect over the years).

That said, the closest individual to the elevators that afternoon, Mr. Jack Dougherty, in his Warren Commission testimony, disputes Roy Truly's bogus claim about yelling up for the elevators. Here we have an individual in that small echo chamber, only a few feet away from the 5th floor elevator doors, disputing Truly's account...

Mr. BALL - Did you hear Mr. Truly yell anything up the elevator shaft?[/FONT]
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I didn't hear anybody yell.[/FONT]

In order to frame an innocent patsy, Truly realized he needed to invent a fairytale account to include a phantom 2nd floor encounter.

Again, between Truly (nothing true about him); Officer "I need four different stories to bolster a phantom account" Baker; and Mrs. "anything for you Roy Truly to help frame an innocent party" Reid all outright lied.

As if she could run up those stairs in need of repair in heels anyway...shame on the WC for actually timing her with a stop-watch to further bolster the lies, never realizing she'd be caught on film in the same timing sequence nowhere near where she claimed to be.


Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - Alan Ford - 26-07-2017

A significant point to ponder as the 2nd floor phantom encounter with the wrongfully accused continues to sink in quicksand of its own making...

*Who really accompanied Roy Truly that afternoon? Here in Eddie Piper's Warren Commission testimony, we get a sense that someone other than Officer Baker did ----->

Mr. BALL. Of the front door--that, would be looking toward Elm Street, is that right?
Mr. PIPER Yes.
Mr. BALL. And were you sitting there when you heard the shot?
Mr. PIPER. That's right.
Mr. BALL. Tell me what you heard?
Mr. PIPER. I heard one shot, and then the next shot went off-the one that shot him and I got on up and went on back, back where they make coffee atthe end of the counter where I could see what happened and before I could getthere, the third shot went off, and I seen the people all running and in a few minutes someone came in the building, and I looked up and it was the bossman and a policeman or someone.
Mr. BALL. You say you heard one shot-you heard two shots and you got Up and then what happened, where did you go?
Mr. PIPER. I came out to the end of the counter where they make coffee there by the stand.
Mr. BALL. You said you did it so you could see out better?
Mr. PIPER. No, sir; I did it to see what time it was-when all this happened-to see what time it was.
Mr. BALL. What time was it?
Mr. PIPER. It was about between 12 :&between 12:2'7 and 12:30-somethinglike that, as near as I can remember.
Mr. BALL. Could you tell where the shots were coming from?
Mr. PIPER. No, sir-1 couldn't, not for sure.
Mr. BALL. The direction?
Mr. PIPER. No, sir; I couldn't.
Mr. BALL. Did you look out the window later?
Mr. PIPER. No more-no, sir ; I didn't go back to any window.
Mr. BALL. You mentioned you saw Truly?
Mr. PIPER. I don't know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was,but another fellow was with him.

Pssst, Mr. Piper, There is a remarkable difference sir in contrast between a policeman in full uniform wearing a white motorcycle helmet (Officer Baker) and a plainclothes FBI agent, or someone else...

translation of Piper's remarks ---->

I know someone was with him, but I'm not sure what script Truly will be using in his own statement ?

Did Mr. Piper know the truth of the matter, but had gotten wind of Truly's tale about a 2nd floor encounter five months prior, but wasn't privy to all of the details in the contrived script, thus someone safely covered anyone Truly may share?

Recap:

*Mrs. Reid outright lied about her encounter with the wrongfully accused ----> https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?16585-Mrs-Reid-s-Mad-Dash#.WXjY7tQrKM8

*The closest person to the elevators that afternoon, Jack Dougherty, in his Warren Commission testimony, disputes Truly's claim about yelling up for an elevator.

*Officer Baker, who was more and likely brought into the ruse well after the fact--with the promise of thirty pieces of silver--needed no less than four tries to get "his" script narrowed down to coax the phantom encounter on the 2nd floor along in the best light. The truth, unlike a lie or lies in general, is able to stand all alone on its own void of retakes, do overs, and outright lies.

Now, Mr. Piper's someone is casting even more doubt on the scripted version of Truly and Baker's run. Who did Mr. Piper really see with Roy Truly in the same time sequence Truly claims to have been with Officer Baker (a clearly recognizable uniformed policeman wearing a white helmet no less)?

Mr. PIPER. I don't know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was, but another fellow was with him.












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Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - Alan Ford - 27-07-2017

Mr. TRULY. When I reached there, the officer had his gun pointing at Oswald. The officer turned this way and said, "This man work here?" And I said, "Yes."
Mr. BELIN. And then what happened?
Mr. TRULY. Then we left Lee Harvey Oswald immediately and continued to run up the stairways until we reached the fifth floor.
Mr. BELIN. All right.

Let's take Truly's tale to task. IF he and Officer Baker had really run upstairs to the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] floor, Why didn't they also encounter the three TSBD employees who viewed the presidential parade from a 5th floor window, and came down those same set of stairs in the same time sequence as Truly & Baker's continued run upward?

Here let's review more from these three men (James Jarman; Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams in that order with spacing in between their respective remarks) ---->

Mr. BALL - And where did. you go then?
Mr. JARMAN - Down. We ran to the elevator first, but the elevator had gone down.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. JARMAN - Then we ran to the stairway and ran downstairs, and we paused a few minutes on four.
Mr. BALL - Which elevator did you run
Mr. JARMAN - To the elevator on the west side.
Mr. BALL - On the west. That wasn't there?
Mr. JARMAN - No sir.


Mr. BALL. Now did you see any police officer come up on that floor?
Mr. NORMAN. I didn't.
Mr. BALL. You didn't.
Mr. NORMAN. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Or did you see Mr. Truly come up?
Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL. Or did you hear any elevator operator
Mr. NORMAN. No; I don't recall.
Mr. BALL. Going up or down?
Mr. NORMAN. No, sir; I don't recall anyone.
Mr. BALL. When you were brought to the first floor or when you came to the first floor how did you go down there?
Mr. NORMAN. We came down the stairway. I remember we came down the stairway.

Mr. BALL. Now, could you see all of the elevators from there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, by me being the tallest, I saw --
Mr. BALL. I am not going into what you saw. But could you see either elevator from where you were standing at "Z"?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; you could see this pretty plainly.
Mr. BALL. You mean the west elevator
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes sir.
Mr. BALL. Could you see the east elevator?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; you could not see it exactly.
Mr. BALL. Now, when you were questioned by the FBI agents, talking to Mr. Odum and Mr. Griffin, they reported in writing here that while you were standing at the west end of the building on the fifth floor, a police officer came up on the elevator and looked all around the fifth floor and left the floor. Did you see anything like that?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I was up there I saw a motorcycle policeman. He came up. And the only thing I saw of him was his white helmet.
Mr. BALL. What did he
Mr. WILLIAMS. He just came around, and around to the elevator.
Mr. BALL. Which elevator?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I believe it was the east elevator.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anybody with him?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I did not.
Mr. BALL. You were only able to see the top of his helmet?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.

Just a few more points above to ponder about the phantom 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] floor encounter in the lunch room hoax created to frame an innocent party. Way too many inconsistencies within their contrived script. Unlike the plain simple truth, lies cannot stand the test of time.

IF the 2nd floor encounter was real, and IF Officer Baker was really with Truly, they should have encountered these three men somewhere between the 2nd and 5th floor, where Officer Baker would have stuck his gun in each of their respective tummy's too and asked Truly to vouch for them as well...someone is lying to us, and it sure isn't the wrongfully accused in this case. Truly's tailspin continues...


Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - LR Trotter - 28-07-2017

The presented evidence of a hoax regarding the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter appears to me to be twofold, slim and none. Not seeing someone, especially someone mobile, does not prove that they were not there, and likewise, not witnessing an event is not proof that it did not happen.

Eyewitnesses and participants have given statements/testimony that indicates that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter did occur, and I do not know of any reliable eyewitness testimony/statement that is seen as confirmation that it did not happen.

Any attempt at libeling deceased persons as liars is not, in my opinion, a sufficient presentation of actual proof.



Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - Alan Ford - 28-07-2017

"The officer and I went through the shipping department to the freight elevator. We then started up the stairway. We hit the second floor landing, the officer stuck his head into the lunch room area where there are Coke and candy machines. Lee Oswald was in there. The officer had his gun on Oswald and asked me if he was an employee. I answered yes." -- Roy S. Truly; November 23, 1963

Fast-forward to early 1964 ---->

Mr. TRULY. It is number 23.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Number 23, the arrow points to the door that has the glass in it.
Now, as you raced around, how far did you start up the stairs towards the third floor there?
Mr. TRULY. I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me.

AF: So, How did Truly see/determine the Officer's movements/actions two or three steps behind him?, quote, the officer stuck his head into the lunch room area where there are Coke and candy machines. Does Truly have eyes in the back of his head, Or, he simply didn't realize at the time of the above statement he would have to rework the initial script at a later date?


Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?
Mr. TRULY. I ran over and looked in this door No. 23.

We note for Truly to be in any position to actually see anything/anyone in the lunchroom, he has to run over there, yet the officer makes Superman blush with his ability to see movement away/behind him on his way up the steps, with no need to run over and actually look inside.

Now with Roy "I have eyes in the back of my head' Truly securely tucked away in their back-pockets, In order to have the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] floor encounter grow legs further, someone or some Agency made Officer Baker an offer he couldn't refuse.

What was Officer Baker's initial intent when he sought to investigate the shots fired? Here, right from his own mouth ---->

Mr. BELIN - When you started up the stairs what was your intention at that--
Mr. BAKER - My intention was to go all the way to the top where I thought the shots had come from, to see if I could find something there, you know, to indicate that.

But somehow while running up those stairs, he manages to defy inertial force, andlike Truly abovemanages to have eyes in the back of his head too ( the door he claims he saw movement lays 25' away/behind him).

If anyone is still clinging to the phantom 2nd floor encounter, Consider this, Who do you know personally who can sprint up a flight of stairs bearing leftward on each landing, with the ability to churn their legs in full throttle as they charge up those same steps with an adrenaline rush like no other, with an initial intent of going all the way up to the top...then suddenly stop on a dime without suffering minor or severe injury?, and, convince observers they also have the ability to see slight movement behind their right-shoulder some 25' away?

Mrs. Reid flat-out lied; Officer "I need at least 4 tries to get my lies, err, "facts' straight" Baker lied; and Who really was the white helmeted motorcycle officer who took the elevator up to the 5th floor? Was it Baker, who was ordered by parties unknown to change his course of action or Else? Why didn't Baker & Truly encounter the other TSBD employees (Bonnie Ray Williams, James Jarman and Harold Norman)? who were coming down the same stairwell they were using to go up (or so they say).

Amazing what some people will do for thirty pieces of silver.


Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - LR Trotter - 29-07-2017

Alan Ford Wrote:"The officer and I went through the shipping department to the freight elevator. We then started up the stairway. We hit the second floor landing, the officer stuck his head into the lunch room area where there are Coke and candy machines. Lee Oswald was in there. The officer had his gun on Oswald and asked me if he was an employee. I answered yes." -- Roy S. Truly; November 23, 1963

Fast-forward to early 1964 ---->

Mr. TRULY. It is number 23.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Number 23, the arrow points to the door that has the glass in it.
Now, as you raced around, how far did you start up the stairs towards the third floor there?
Mr. TRULY. I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me.

AF: So, How did Truly see/determine the Officer's movements/actions two or three steps behind him?, quote, the officer stuck his head into the lunch room area where there are Coke and candy machines. Does Truly have eyes in the back of his head, Or, he simply didn't realize at the time of the above statement he would have to rework the initial script at a later date?


Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?
Mr. TRULY. I ran over and looked in this door No. 23.

We note for Truly to be in any position to actually see anything/anyone in the lunchroom, he has to run over there, yet the officer makes Superman blush with his ability to see movement away/behind him on his way up the steps, with no need to run over and actually look inside.

Now with Roy "I have eyes in the back of my head' Truly securely tucked away in their back-pockets, In order to have the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] floor encounter grow legs further, someone or some Agency made Officer Baker an offer he couldn't refuse.

What was Officer Baker's initial intent when he sought to investigate the shots fired? Here, right from his own mouth ---->

Mr. BELIN - When you started up the stairs what was your intention at that--
Mr. BAKER - My intention was to go all the way to the top where I thought the shots had come from, to see if I could find something there, you know, to indicate that.

But somehow while running up those stairs, he manages to defy inertial force, andlike Truly abovemanages to have eyes in the back of his head too ( the door he claims he saw movement lays 25' away/behind him).

If anyone is still clinging to the phantom 2nd floor encounter, Consider this, Who do you know personally who can sprint up a flight of stairs bearing leftward on each landing, with the ability to churn their legs in full throttle as they charge up those same steps with an adrenaline rush like no other, with an initial intent of going all the way up to the top...then suddenly stop on a dime without suffering minor or severe injury?, and, convince observers they also have the ability to see slight movement behind their right-shoulder some 25' away?

Mrs. Reid flat-out lied; Officer "I need at least 4 tries to get my lies, err, "facts' straight" Baker lied; and Who really was the white helmeted motorcycle officer who took the elevator up to the 5th floor? Was it Baker, who was ordered by parties unknown to change his course of action or Else? Why didn't Baker & Truly encounter the other TSBD employees (Bonnie Ray Williams, James Jarman and Harold Norman)? who were coming down the same stairwell they were using to go up (or so they say).

Amazing what some people will do for thirty pieces of silver.

Is the reproduced testimony of TSBD Superintendent RSTruly complete regarding his witnessing the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter between DPD Officer MLBaker and building employee LHOswald? As I recall, RST stated that when he noticed that MLB was not behind him on the 2nd to 3rd floor stairs, he "turned around and went back to the 2nd floor landing". And there, he heard voices coming from the lunchroom, and proceeded there and witnessed the encounter.



Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - Alan Ford - 29-07-2017

Is the reproduced testimony of TSBD Superintendent RSTruly complete regarding his witnessing the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter between DPD Officer MLBaker and building employee LHOswald? As I recall, RST stated that when he noticed that MLB was not behind him on the 2nd to 3rd floor stairs, he "turned around and went back to the 2nd floor landing". And there, he heard voices coming from the lunchroom, and proceeded there and witnessed the encounter.

Even with that version-pick one (of course, the plain simple truth only needs one, but we'll allow Truly to catch up with Officer Baker's 4 different versions of a single event), the point made still stands, How could Truly know what the officer was doing behind this barrier "two or three steps up"? ---->

[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=9167&stc=1]
L-Shaped Stairway TSBD

Again, in Truly's own words ---->

Mr. TRULY. It is number 23.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Number 23, the arrow points to the door that has the glass in it.
Now, as you raced around, how far did you start up the stairs towards the third floor there?
Mr. TRULY. I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me.

Even Superman couldn't know what the officer was doing at this point (but a contrived script would allow someone to know precisely what the officer was doing in this rather challenging position).

The problem with the phantom 2nd floor encounter is it needs lies to stand (something the plain simple truth is able to do all on its own, standing alone with the passage of time, void of retakes, do overs and/or flat out lies (think Mrs. Reid's bogus account of the phantom 2nd floor encounter). She didn't encounter the wrongfully accused anywhere on the 2nd floor, nor did Roy 'eyes in the back of my head, capable of seeing through bricks" Truly or Officer "I need four different tries to get my lies, err, "facts" straight" Baker.

The mystery here is this: the identity of the motorcycle officer who rode an elevator to the 5th floor...and why didn't Truly & Baker encounter the three other TSBD employees on those same steps they said they climbed (they seem to say a lot of things). The plain simple truth needs only one version.


Anatomy of the Second Floor Lunchroom Encounter - Richard Gilbride - 29-07-2017

I have 3 posts right now. In this 1st post I expose two major-league gaffes in Jim DiEugenio's understanding of Marrion Baker.

On p. 10 of the EdForum thread Great New Movie Spells Out the Case for Oswald as PrayerMan, presently on p. 42 of their topics, in a December 9, 2015 post Jim writes:

"When you add in the fact that Baker was in the witness room with Oswald as he penned his affidavit, and there is no record of him even recognizing him at that time even though he had allegedly just stuck a gun in his gut, well that is a bit unusual..."

[This is not true, Jim. Because we have a record of Baker having told Marvin Johnson soon afterward that that was the guy he'd met on about the 4th floor. So you are blatantly misrepresenting Baker's affidavit omission, because Baker was quite mindful about this omission]

"...Believe me, Allen Dulles was very aware of this dichotomy. He and Belin went off the record five times with Baker and did all they could do to minimize the witness conundrum. (Reclaiming Parkland, p. 194)"

[In my 2nd post we will examine this in great detail and show that it is a nothing-burger]

On p. 1 of the EdForum thread One Last Thing Before Xmas Eve: 2nd Floor Lunchroom Encounter, presently on p. 57 of their topics, in a December 25, 2015 post Jim tells us:

"As I wrote in Reclaiming Parkland:

'...the final Commission version does not even resemble the incident that Baker described on the day of the assassination. On that day Baker executed an affidavit in which he described this encounter himself. He described going up the stairs with Truly. Then this startling passage follows:

As we reached the third or fourth floor, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back towards me. The manager said I know that man he works here. I then turned the man loose and went on up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately thirty years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket (p. 193)

(p. 194)

In the affidavit, there is nothing about seeing Oswald through a window in the door. Nothing about the lunchroom. Nothing about a Coke. They weren't even in any room, but near a stairway. And the guy he saw does not appear to be Oswald. He was older, heavier and he was wearing a brown jacket."

[Get a grip, Jim. It was police protocol to provide only the details required- Just the facts, ma'am, as Sgt. Joe Friday would say. It was similar to what you might tell your superior officer in the Army. Baker wasn't writing a piece for the Dallas Morning News.

Was the man walking toward the stairway? Oswald, with his thinning hair, did not look older than 24? Was he not 5'9"? And Baker, who had been out to Parkland and Love Field in the meantime, couldn't have misjudged Oswald's weight? Particularly in an untucked shirt that was mistaken for a jacket?

And I will remind you that this was not just another typical day at DPD HQ. The President of the United States had just been murdered on a Dallas street, a police officer had just been murdered in Oak Cliff, apparently by the guy they just brought into the interrogation room. Something Baker would have to explain if it turned out this guy was guilty of that and Baker had missed his chance to even ID him.

Jim, your suspicions do not automatically transmute into truth.]