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What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - Printable Version +- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora) +-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Historical Events (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-8.html) +--- Thread: What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey (/thread-15944.html) |
What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - Peter Lemkin - 10-10-2018 The story about the missing Saudi journalist grows even more horrific Turkey provides new disturbing information on Jamal Khashoggi. D. PARVAZ OCT 10, 2018, 12:06 PM Cengiz waited for him outside the building for hours, but he never emerged. Saudi officials claim they have no idea where he is and vehemently deny harming Khashoggi, who had been writing pieces critical of the repressive state for The Washington Post. But Turkish authorities have gathering and releasing information that paints a harrowing picture of what might have happened to the journalist: Over the past 24 hours, Turkish officials have released images of a 15-member Saudi "assassination squad" they say flew to Turkey to deal with Khashoggi. Among them was a man Turkish media say is a forensic or autopsy expert. [URL="https://thinkprogress.org/trump-administration-doesnt-have-much-to-say-on-missing-saudi-reporter-23c5b0a85476/"] Trump's deafening silence on the missing Saudi reporter [/URL] [/URL] One unnamed Turkish official told The New York Times on Wednesday that a "bone saw" was among the items the team brought with them, adding that the order to kill Khashoggi, who had written critically about Saudi's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, came from the country's royal court. Turkish newspapers report that the Saudi consulate staff were given October 2 the day of Khashoggi's appointment off. They were told there was a "diplomats' meeting." THE LAST KNOWN IMAGE OF JAMAL KHASHOGGI ALIVE, WALKING INTO THE SAUDI CONSULATE ON OCT. 2, 2018L THE BLACK MERCEDES VAN BEHIND HIM LEFT THE CONSULATE TWO HOURS LATER, POSSIBLY CARRYING KHASHOGGI. CREDIT: SCREENSHOT/TRT WORLD.According to Turkish news channel TRT, the team arrived via private chartered flights into Istanbul, and the men on those flights stayed at a hotel near the Saudi consulate. As Khashoggi arrived at the consulate last week, a black van is seen in the background. Nearly two hours later, the black van leaves the consulate, goes to the Consul General's home, pulls into a garage, and a few hours later heads to the airport. Turkish authorities want to know who or what was in that van. The 15-member Saudi team flew out of Istanbul that same day. Saudi officials have yet to share any evidence that Khashoggi walked out of the consulate as they claim he did. There is no surveillance from cameras in the area showing him walking out, nor did Cengiz see him leave. She issued a plea to President Donald Trump and First Lady Melania Trump on Tuesday to look into her fiancé's fate: "At this time, I implore President Trump and first lady Melania Trump to help shed light on Jamal's disappearance. I also urge Saudi Arabia, especially King Salman and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, to show the same level of sensitivity and release CCTV footage from the consulate," Cengiz wrote in a Washington Post editorial on Tuesday. The U.S. response to the accusations against its close ally has been so far soft. President Trump earlier said that he's concerned to hear of Khashoggi's disappearance. The State Department called on Saudi Arabia to investigate itself, and Vice President Mike Pence on Wednesday said that the United States was ready to help investigate Khashoggi's disappearance if Saudi Arabia requested such help. What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - David Guyatt - 12-10-2018 Speculation today is that the Saudi's will pay Erdogan a sufficient sum of money so that newly announced investigation will go nowhere and in the meantime media interest will correspondingly become more and more muted. What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - Peter Lemkin - 13-10-2018 From Saudi involvement in 911, to their funding of various terrorist organizations [along with the US and UK and others], through their proxy wars against Iran, through their secret overthrows of progressive Arab governments, through their very odd alliance with Israel, through their secret alliances with the US secret state, through the fear, detention, torture and execution of many Saudi (perceived) critics internally...and now an apparent execution of a Saudi journalist in Istanbul and one who had permanent residence in the USA....... I think it is about time the USA and most 'Western' countries re-evaluate their relationship with that anti-democratic and bizarre country. Trump is not the man to do so - he is financially compromised by the Saudis [as is Kushner], and he has no moral compass anyway other than his wallet. This will be interesting. Even Reich-wing politicos are expressing their disgust with this brazen act. Of course the USA and many other nations do the same and long have - but usually very covertly and then make it look false-flag or an 'accident'. It will be interesting to see how this plays out or if the Saudis paying out large amounts of hush money behind the scenes can make it 'go away'. I think not - but I also think most countries are so addicted to Saudi money, oil and power they will not do much other than express their outrage..... I hope I'm wrong. Time to look into a lot of dirt the Saudis have long been doing wholesale - even if this 'retail' assassination was repulsive. What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - Lauren Johnson - 14-10-2018 Scott Creighton formally known as the recently purged Willyloman always has another take worth paying attention to: What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - James Lateer - 16-10-2018 This Crown Prince MBS has a more wild-eyed and sociopathic look about him than anybody I have ever seen on TV, with the exception of Charles Manson. Having a man with such a pathological mentality in charge of such an influential country can only bring disastrous results for the US, the Middle East and maybe the entire planet. There is only one way to classify this dude. He is about as helpful to the US cause as a 200 pound pit bull with rabies and parvo loose in your neighborhood. Mark my words. James Lateer What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - Peter Lemkin - 16-10-2018 Saudi Arabia preparing to admit it killed Jamal Khashoggi as spat with U.S. heats up Both countries are wagging a finger at the other with one hand, while shaking on billion-dollar deals with the other. D. PARVAZ OCT 15, 2018, 4:06 PM PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP HOLDS UP A CHART OF MILITARY HARDWARE SALES AS HE MEETS WITH CROWN PRINCE MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN OF THE KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA IN THE OVAL OFFICE AT THE WHITE HOUSE ON MARCH 20, 2018 IN WASHINGTON, D.C.. CREDIT: KEVIN DIETSCH-POOL/GETTY IMAGES.When Saudi dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi disappeared after visiting his country's consulate in Istanbul on Oct. 2, the Trump administration barely raised a (public) eyebrow. After being pushed on the story which got even worse by the day, with reports out of Turkey describing a 15-member Saudi assassination squad that flew into the country, tortured, and dismembered Khashoggi, and left with his body parts President Donald Trump's comments have run the gamut from dismissal to soft threats against the Gulf kingdom. Last Thursday, Trump told reporters that Khashoggi is not a U.S. citizen and it's none of the U.S.'s business. By the weekend, the president had seemed to realize that the case was bad and demanded that Saudi answer for it (but he wouldn't make the Gulf Arab kingdom uncomfortable enough to back out of $110 billion in U.S. weapons deals and potential Lockheed Martin F-35 jet sales). On Monday, Trump seemed to make a full reversal, tweeting that he's spoken to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman (aka, MBS), who allegedly said he had nothing to do with Khashoggi's disappearance. ![]() @realDonaldTrump[/URL] Just spoke to the King of Saudi Arabia who denies any knowledge of whatever may have happened "to our Saudi Arabian citizen." He said that they are working closely with Turkey to find answer. I am immediately sending our Secretary of State to meet with King! 2:37 PM - Oct 15, 2018 Mere hours later, CNN reported that Saudi Arabia is "preparing to admit" that they killed Khashoggi in an interrogation gone wrong. Still, before being contradicted by this news on Monday, President Trump said after speaking to MBS that it's possible "rogue killers" were responsible for Khashoggi's death. But a 15-member kill-team (including the country's chief medical examiner, equipped with a bone saw) entering a consulate of a country that exercises such surveillance and control over its citizens without the approval of MBS or at least senior members of the royal court seems beyond unlikely. In trying to signal that he's doing something, the president called for an investigation into Khashoggi's case and will "immediately" (that is, 13 days after the journalist went missing) dispatch Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to the Saudi capital of Riyadh. If what President Trump is capable let alone willing to do in the face of this horrific incident seems vague, so is the Saudi threat of retaliation. Realistically speaking, Saudi Arabia is not accustomed to being called to the mat by the United States. The U.S. supports its efforts in the war in Yemen, where Saudi-led airstrikes have killed thousands of civilians, including a busload of children in August. If the images of dead and wounded children didn't garner lasting outrage in the Trump administration, it's hard to imagine how a single by all accounts, horrifically slain journalist might, especially given how the president feels about the press, in general. What can the U.S. can do? While sanctions have been mentioned, it's unclear how the Trump administration would levy those without somehow shooting itself in the foot. The steady of flow of Saudi money into the United States be it via big spending at the president's own DC hotel, or in the $110 billion in arms sales Trump frequently touts (although the number is actually closer to $4 billion), or in investments (Saudi Arabia owns the largest oil refinery in the United States) is enough reason not to levy those sanctions. Just mentioning them sends Saudi stocks plunging, which would be sure to affect investments in the energy sector or even in Hollywood, which was fiercely courting MBS during his visit to the U.S. in March. Hussein Ibish, senior resident scholar of the Arab Gulf States Institute in Washington, told ThinkProgress that while the president may be reluctant to hold back on weapons (including the $15 billion in the THAAD missile defense system) Congress has power to delay or even cancel those deals. "He [President Trump] doesn't want to particularly do anything. It's about Congress, and, to some extent, the media and the policy-framing community insisting, unless the narrative changes in some dramatic way, that the United States register its disapproval in a concrete manner," he added. Secretary Pompeo might find that diplomacy has little weight with MBS. Saudi Arabia at least appears infamously numb to diplomatic pressure it continues to keep women's rights activists jailed, maintains its brisk pace of executions, and feels it has nothing to answer for in killing thousands of civilians in its airstrikes in Yemen, where its involvement is also pushing millions of people toward famine. It also carried out a strange "corruption" purge late last year, which looked more like a lucrative shakedown of its own elite, and seemed to have kidnapped the Lebanese prime minister for a few weeks. Most of the above, though, said Ibish, is "internal stuff," but Khashoggi's case happened in a consulate in Turkey, and involves torture and, therefore, the Vienna Convention. Also, Khashoggi, whom Ibish knew for more than 15 years, was a U.S. resident and wrote for The Washington Post. "The U.S. has a real investment here," said Ibish, adding, "This is qualitatively different." Potential Saudi responses Saudi Arabia, said Ibish, is now being pulled in two different directions trying to mitigate any potential international fallout from Khashoggi's (almost certain) death, while internally, doubling down on the nationalistic messaging. "They're really waving the flag, aggressively, in a similar way that they did in the dispute with Canada," said Ibish, referring the the tiff between the two countries when Canada expressed alarm over the jailing of rights activists. Saudi Arabia responded with a huge campaign questioning Canada's human rights records, and pulling thousands of its students out of Canadian universities. What follows was a "huge pushback" against internal reforms, especially for women's rights, within Saudi Arabia, said Ibish. So, bowing to international pressure would hurt that narrative. Saudi Arabia has some aces up its sleeve. For one thing, it controls the oil market, where, owing to sanctions against Venezuela and thanks to President Trump's sanctions against Iran, it will be an even larger player come November. President Trump has already asked oil producing countries including Saudi Arabia to increase output in order to keep gas prices down in the U.S. (where they have been creeping up, posing a threat to GOP control of Congress in the upcoming midterm elections). "The first thing it could do is price oil in something other than dollars, which would screw us up completely. They could drive the price of oil up to $200, $300, $400 a barrel, if they wanted to," said Ibish. Saudi Arabia knows that if its economy hits the rocks, that shock will send ripples to the U.S., something that could be politically damaging to President Trump. Saudi's position in the U.S. capital debt market is important: It has been borrowing tens of billions of dollars in recent years and issuing bonds on that debt. U.S. institutional investors (which purchase securities with pooled funds) buy those bonds. Saudi Arabia, in turn, has been buying up U.S. government bonds, making it the 10th largest foreign investor in U.S. government securities. Most likely outcome The U.S.-Saudi relationship, said Ibish, is purely "transactional" "there's nothing sentimental or values-driven about it." And that's the thing about purely transactional relationships, he added, "You can't take anything away from the other side without hurting yourself, because you only gave them X,Y, and Z things in order to get something back. That's true on both sides, here." Saudi Arabia is the Trump administration's regional check against Iran. It controls the oil market and holds the kind of economic levers that, if pulled, could cause major pain for President Trump and the GOP in the immediate to medium term. It's not in Saudi Arabia's best interest to rile the United States, which provides it with cover and material help in its fight in Yemen and in its ongoing economic campaign against Qatar (remember the Gulf Crisis? It's still happening). The Trump administration is also Saudi's key Western ally against their mutual bête noire, Iran. There are, after all, two real powers in that region: Iran and Saudi Arabia. The former does not believe the U.S. is a stabilizing influence in the Middle East, whereas the latter does. "These countries are stuck with each other," said Ibish. And any Saudi government, and any U.S. administration, regardless of party, would do whatever possible to "put this behind them." In other words, all of these threats and counter-threats might be nothing more than theater of political acrimony, only serving for each country to give the other cover during this temporary storm before moving on. What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - Peter Lemkin - 16-10-2018 Sick! Trump who never met a ruling tyrant he didn't cozy up to [and only wishes he could rule like that in the USA..] has long long been in deep business relationships with the Saudis. He is now complicit in constructing a modified limited hangout [some 'bad' rogue people in the Saudi Embassy in Istanbul killed Kashoggi - it wasn't ordered from the top] so as to allow the private business relationships and business as usual in brutal war against Yemen et al. continue is ongoing. I think it won't wash - but who knows - the US citizenry can't tell truth from untruth at this point, for the most part. It is like the last days of Rome when murder and phony excuses for them were almost weekly events. The Empire is crumbling and Trump is accelerating its demise more than any previous President-puppet since 11/22/63. Sick stuff.... Other Saudi citizens and especially critics are very afraid and with good reason. The same fear will soon be prevalent in the USA - it is already for high profile dissidents/critics with important information. Tyranny is coming and a planetary move toward Fascism and Oligarchy are here now. If you can't see it and don't act against it, then I don't want you as a cell mate in my prison/torture cell. I exaggerate not. What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - Lauren Johnson - 17-10-2018 Madsen: The Arabian Game of Thrones Heats Up Quote:The reported torture, murder, and dismemberment of Washington-based Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi at the Saudi consulate-general in Istanbul reminded the world that an intense power play is now taking place within the monarchies of the Arabian Peninsula and between them. What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - Peter Lemkin - 17-10-2018 What the Saudis [our good 'friends' of the National Security State] got up to in Turkey - James Lateer - 17-10-2018 There are 100,000 Saudis who are students in the US and 350,000 students from Communist China. Does anybody ever ask exactly what do these students contribute to our educational system (besides money)? It would seem that almost all of them would have passed a litmus test with their tyrannical governments. We are probably getting anti-democracy students. Our government should limit foreign students to those coming from pro-democracy countries, with only a few exceptions for real genius-type students. If all of these students were at the top 100 universities and the universities had 40,000 students each, that would give you about 10% of the students as coming from China and Saudi Arabia. Is anybody evaluating whether these students are making a positive contribution? IMO they are probably among those who are attacking free speech and academic freedom on campus. James Lateer |