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MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Richard Gilbride - 01-04-2024
I have a new essay ready, Mistaken Identity, at my website at https://jfkinsidejob.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/MISTAKEN-IDENTITY.pdf
Basically, it examines and enlarges upon Robert Doran's 2016 book of the same name, which includes a look at the biological basis for the Lee Harvey Oswald doppelgangers. Even though this essay comprises 45 pages, there are 30 photographs, 22 documents (9 full-page, plus 6 mostly-full) and 20 enlargements, so you should be able to get through a first reading in a couple of hours. This research is well worth your consideration.
The first section, Lee Harvey Oswald's Family Tree, sketches out his immediate ancestors, supported by US Census records. Doran's Mormon faith gave him a flair for genealogy, and he may have grabbed the brass ring as far as identifying the true origin of the Oswald doppelganger.
The second section, Two Marguerite Oswalds, is full of photographs from ancestry.com and John Armstrong's research and leaves 0% doubt that two women were posing as his mother.
The third section, Two Lee Harvey Oswalds, sketches the discrepancies discovered by Armstrong in the youths' New York and New Orleans school records.
The fourth section, Two Signatures, examines the different signatures evidenced by two separate individuals (5' 11" hazel eyes vs. 5' 9" blue eyes) on unique-but-amalgamated paths as US Marines.
The fifth section, A Russian Surprise, scrutinizes which doppelganger defected to the Soviet Union, and then looks at the possibility that they switched places while over there.
The sixth section, Prelude to Assassination, is a concluding brief showing who worked at the Texas School Book Depository and who frequented Jack Ruby's Carousel Club.
John Armstrong's Harvey & Lee theory is stronger than ever, but portions of it will need substantial revision. And Robert Doran's work has made a critical companion contribution. His artistic-but-tenacious mind uncovered important evidence that was previously overlooked.
This is an area of research that will yield more fruit for somebody with the time, proper grounding, inclination and dedication. Hopefully this new essay will help spur that effort.
MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Brian Doyle - 02-04-2024
I had to read the essay twice to grasp its complex theories...The first thing I noticed is Doran introduces "Leon Votier" out of thin air with zero reference to any evidence what so ever of his existence...He simply says Leon was the illegitimate son of Aminthe Votier and doesn't offer anything else...Of course the essay is Gilbride's translation of Doran so I don't know if Doran offered more evidence in his book that Richard didn't cover...Yes, if Leon was Harvey there would be a lack of any record however Armstrong offers a thousand pages of background evidence for Harvey...As far as I know Doran offers zero and simply claims Leon existed...
The next thing that popped in to my head is the Oswalds seen by Kittrell were identical...If Leon was the product of Robert Oswald and Aminthe Claviere then he was of different genes than Lee Oswald who originated from Robert and Marguerite...This right here would end Doran's thesis because there is no way that such twins would ever match to the degree witnessed by Kittrell...The alleged Leon & Lee twins would have serious genetic differences that would be immediately apparent at the range experienced by Kittrell...This is the same mistake that Armstrong and Hargrove are making...They are assuming that Harvey & Lee came from random identical doubles that happened by chance...Anyone who examines Harvey & Lee must understand as a starting premise that the identical twins had to be planned from birth in order to resemble each other that perfectly...The only other alternative is separation of natural identical twins at birth with the same game plan of later using them as spy doubles...All is not lost however as I will explain...
The next thing that popped in to my head is Leon has no opportunity for Russian language training as a youth...This is imperative to Harvey & Lee...Armstrong solves it through the Hungarian communist Gardos connection...That makes sense and has strong evidence that has recently grown even stronger...As far as I know Doran offers nothing on this and it nixes his thesis...Again, all is not lost because if Leon is Harvey and was part of a deep op it is always possible Leon got covert training in Russian of an unknown origin (if he even existed)...
This theory is so complex it is best to keep it simple...If there is credibility to this thesis then it is possible the overt pre-planning that Armstrong and Hargrove are failing to grasp isolated an Intelligence-controlled family group and implanted identical twins in Marguerite and Aminthe...Being an orphaned child Aminthe would be a likely target for such a ghoulish espionage/dark science project...From there Leon, or Harvey, could be gotten out of her control and shifted over to Gardos...The success of the identical twins would be guaranteed by these live human incubator female hosts...Hargrove is failing to grasp that there are conflicting New York City school records for Lee Harvey Oswald because Leon (Harvey) was being called "Lee Harvey Oswald" in order to melt their identities in to one...Thusly, the Frantic Caller to the Tippits thought Harvey was the real Lee Harvey Oswald...
This is the only way Doran's thesis would work in my opinion...
On a side note the star rating on this site is open to the public so it may be a stalker who is giving Richard and myself one star on every post and not the moderators...This cheap business is common on the vulgar JFK internet and is usually experienced by the best and brightest against lower life forms...It's probably one of the ROKC crazies who got burned by us refuting Prayer Man...
This essay belongs on the Education Forum where people can see it...Instead it is being censored by that ridiculous drama queen posing as moderator James Gordon or his yes-man underling Mark Knight...
RE: MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Richard Gilbride - 03-04-2024
I haven't found any reference to Kittrell that says she thought the Oswald doppelgangers were identical... She did say they "looked remarkably similar". (Armstrong, p. 141). Anyone could say the same about the 5' 11" hazel-eyed Oswald and the 5' 9" blue-eyed Oswald...
Laura Kittrell stated, "The man I remember as Oswald and the man I remember as the Teamster were much alike in size, shape and outline, generally [but] there was a marked difference between them in bearing and manner." (Armstrong, p. 728)
I think Doran worked backwards, from the December 19, 1938 date on the Temporary Residence Permit in the USSR, and Notice of Obligated Service date of December 8, 1962 (indicative of a 2nd separate enlistment date), and the military dental records to definitively conclude the doppelgangers had parallel career tracks in the US Marines.
From there, some kind of solution has to be posited for how they became doppelgangers. Biology will give a lookalike at age 13, 18-20, and 24- which is what we have for the Mr. Oswalds.
I know some rudimentary Russian but couldn't find a sample of an "archaic Russian" script (Doran's terminology) for the month of December- that would be worth double-checking, since 19 December 1938 is the apparent birthday of Leon Votier.
In any case, I presented the essentials of the evidence Doran offers for his Leon Votier hypothesis. Robert Oswald (the brother) was very likely privy to this doppelganger game (which involved his brother and an identity switch with his mother) and was cagey about identifying Aminthe Votier in that photo of her with Marguerite from about 1930. It wasn't Lillian or Aminthe Claverie, and Doran presented documentation in his book that Pearl Claverie was institutionalized in 1925- she was switched to East Jackson State Hospital in 1930.
You should hopefully notice that Aminthe Votier the imposter got buried beside her biological son.
A reason I included a photo of Marilyn Murret in the conclusion was that she was allegedly CIA. She was about 10 years older than her cousin and just recently died in 2020. Whatever forces were pressuring the Oswald family into intelligence work likely had their roots in the Murret-Claverie family.
MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Brian Doyle - 03-04-2024
I don't know what to make of this because it does hold water to some degree...
If Harvey was born to Aminthe as Leon the evidence shows, at some point, he had to be turned over to Gardos in Manhattan...The when, where, and how of that is important...Harvey had early Russian language exposure that manifested in the many witnessings of "Oswald" having Russian fluency in Russia...Harvey had to end up in Manhattan somehow where his school records clashed with Lee's...So when he made that switch has to be explained in Doran's case...That would, however, make sense because at some point Aminthe would have been seen with a child - so Harvey being taken from her does fit the Harvey & Lee scenario...
The look alike part doesn't wash...I have three sisters and if my brother in law had a child with one of my other sisters there's just no way that the resulting child would fit Kittrell's witnessing...What Kittrell is trying to say is the men were close enough in appearance to pass for each other if it wasn't for their distinctive manners...The look alike part doesn't make sense because Doran would have to explain how they came to realize they looked alike?...It doesn't wash that they figured out this bastard child looked exactly like Lee and therefore concocted a plot to send him to Gardos for Russian training...That doesn't make sense...What makes much more sense is an espionage plan that required genetic identical doubles so Aminthe (or some female) was chosen to host an identical twin embryo whose similarity to Lee would be guaranteed...Put it this way, the noticeable difference between the real Marguerite and the fake one is a good example of why Doran's theory wouldn't work...
Doran's theory could have merit but, in my opinion, it strains in the transfer to Gardos part...Harvey ends up in Manhattan...
Like Sandy Larsen, I think Bentley being the Frantic Caller is questionable because of the foreign accent...
It pisses me off that this can't be posted on the Education Forum due to the petty personal grudges of the uncredible moderation there...
RE: MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Richard Gilbride - 04-04-2024
Personally, I don't find Laura Kitrell's "remarkably similar" to be indicative that the Oswald doppelgangers could pass for each other, or even so far as to indicate they were twins. The photos that we have, which are in my essay, show a similarity at age 13 (Ridglea Elementary vs. Bronx Zoo), age 18-20 (Lee ONI vs. Harvey Santa Ana) and 24 (accused assassin vs. Carousel Club)- these photos all show a similarity that can be attributable to cousins.
There was intermarriage between the Claveria and Votier families. Aminthe Votier's mother was Marie Claverie, and her aunt Anna also married into the Votier family. Which suggests this kind of intermarriage may have gone back a few generations, resulting in a stronger-then-usual genetic similarity between Marguerite Claverie and Aminthe Votier.
Anyways, that scenario is less of a stretch to me than conjecturing that "test tube twins" were implanted in the wombs of Marguerite and Aminthe.
Also, I'm not signed onto the Gardos narrative, of Harvey Oswald being partly raised by Hungarians et. al. and thereby acquiring the rudiments of the Russian language. I found a great article about Oswald's Russian language efforts by none other than Greg Parker:
https://www.jfkassassination.com/lee-oswald-russian-language
I have to agree with Greg that he learned this difficult Cyrillic-script language on his own, with the help of Berlitz books, and probably with an assist from the military at some point during his career.
My own experience, during my year in Alaska in 1993, after only a few weeks with a Berlitz guide I was able to compose a 2-page letter entirely in Cyrillic Russian. I was motivated, ha-ha, I was hoping to date a beautiful Russian girl and sent the letter to Moscow. I told her about the onion-domed churches I'd flown over on the way to my ship.
And I recall a comment by Jim Garrison, about Oswald scoring "poorly"- about 50%- on formal Russian tests while in the military, in which most people would be lucky to score even 5%. It comes to you eventually, like anything else, but the Cyrillic is especially daunting, and there are special grammar rules as well, just like English.
"Alik" wrote some beautiful letters in Russian to Marina- and these are reprinted in the Warren volumes- and Robert Doran posited that there was even a 3rd Oswald responsible for these. But I found that a bit much and expressed that in my review of the book at Amazon.
Anyone interested in this topic should probably grab a copy of his book Mistaken Identity pronto, because Infinity Publishing- which had 7,000 authors- has recently fallen apart. You can't depend on the book always being available.
MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Brian Doyle - 04-04-2024
You have to remember that we are in to the deepest Intel waters with Oswald and the Assassination...Those deepest waters often harbor the deepest Intel capabilities to match their depth...Kittrell was not the only witness to the Oswald doubles...Helen Forrest said of the Oswald she saw emerge on the Grassy Knoll and get in the Station Wagon "If it wasn't Oswald himself it was his identical twin"...The Oswald whom Forrest saw was Lee, who had just narrowly escaped blowing the whole plan when he stumbled in to the Lobby from the front stairs with Harvey at the other end of the Lobby...These doubles managed to pass themselves off at close range in the Depository and Texas Theater...Bernard Haire thought he was looking at the same person who was taken out the front door...
Don't forget that the Manhattan school records show Harvey in Manhattan at the same time as Lee...This necessitates the Gardos theory to have merit, otherwise the Frantic Caller is just a lunatic who called the Connecticut Tippits with precise information out of the blue with nothing behind it...But we know already that there isn't nothing behind it because of those school records...I submit that the Belarus accent Marina detected on Oswald was actually a western Russian accent common to the Belarus/Ukrainian area that borders directly on Hungary...I have made that point several times now and see it has never once been recognized...This research community is for the shits and once a nincompoop like Gordon bans you the other researchers use that unfair censorship to ignore your good points...None of Oswald's fellow Marines ever saw him studying Berlitz Russian language books...Harvey had a Manhattan-like intellectual interest in high Russian literature that did not come from the poor southern background of the New Orleans Oswald family...It is exactly the type of urbane intellectual education a Manhattan-located kid would learn...When countered with Lee's early promotion of communism as an agent provocateur kid, we are well past the point of Intel accidentally finding out these cousins looked like each other and getting word to Dulles - which is ridiculous and Hargrove should realize it...That early sheep-dipping bespeaks a plan that started from its origin with the birth of the twins...Kids selling themselves as commies is Deep Water stuff that bespeaks a greater Oswald Project plan...
Greg Parker is notorious and should only be referenced with extreme disclaimers on any technical matter where he might be correct on that isolated individual point of evidence...Otherwise he is a highly destructive force and ROKC Troll Farm disinformationist who hosted the Prayer Man theory and kept it up long after it had been credibly disproven...When I presented Greg the evidence of his own website member Linda Zambanini, when she showed Lumpkin did not enter the Depository until 12:50, and therefore could not be the cop Mrs Garner saw with Truly as Parker submitted, Greg ignored it and never admitted that, therefore, the cop was Baker and in turn proved the Lunch Room Encounter was real...Greg was an obnoxious troll and the example of Lumpkin shows he was a bullshit artist who pranked the evidence and looked for false claims he could substitute in for the real evidence...Just about all Parker's "research" is of this nature and he led the charge in fragmenting the credible research community and still has a lot of loyal fans who have no problem being members of Gordon's strictly-moderated Education Forum...Greg Parker is the research community's Alex Jones...UK-based moderatorship uses censorship as a dishonest main tool...
When Sandy Larsen went to Mark Knight and asked him to reinstate me to the Education Forum Knight told him I would never be reinstated because I called Kathy Beckett a bad name...Kathy had obviously gone to Knight and told him "I found something we can keep Doyle off the forum with"...I never broke any rules on the Education Forum and when I asked Gordon to show what rules I had broken he refused and said I would be banned if I asked again...Gordon is a fraud and cowardly bully who abuses his moderator position...No credible moderator would use anything that was said on the unmoderated McAdams website where I called Beckett a "whore" for backing Gordon's wrongful ban (which she was)...Beckett had come over to the McAdams site and taunted me over it which is like kicking a tied up man on the ground...Never has any of those crooks ever answered the main offense of banning an innocent person for posting the correct evidence and then having the ignorant hubris of accusing him of failing to listen to correct evidence procedure when told...That is the main offense here that Knight is obviously making excuses in order to avoid answering for it...The rest of the bum members let them get away with it and pretend not to notice as long as they get posting space...They sell themselves cheaply...This is exactly the kind of arrogant, unfair Education Forum moderation the Deep Politics Forum was formed in opposition to...Get this straight - Gordon says I was banned for failing to obey correct evidence methodology but he himself ignores the correct evidence on Prayer Man and protects people like Odisio and Stancak who ignore my proof and continue to be protected by Gordon in their posting of provably wrong claims...We are talking about my posting on the Education Forum in winter of 2016 when I tried to present the correct evidence on Prayer Man and was bullied and stopped by Gordon, and not the excuses the criminal mods have made since then...They keep me off because that fool Gordon can't answer why failing to obey correct evidence procedure isn't applied to the Lone Nutters who are actually guilty of that, that he goes out of his way to host...Gordon is an arrogant bastard so he doesn't answer questions like that...He just bans... In the future I hope to approach an internet attorney and sue the Forum...Gordon is a dirty bastard...He doesn't stop at just banning an innocent researcher...He uses his authority to go after them and destroy them and his yes-man Knight makes sure he is successful...
RE: MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Richard Gilbride - 06-04-2024
Helen Forrest's statement is a colloquial expression, indicating the man she saw looked similar to the accused assassin. She only caught a couple-seconds look as he ran down the grass and got into the Rambler. The person she saw (The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald. p. 154) was enhanced from a Jim Murray photo by Robert Groden (which isn't on Robin Unger's photo gallery). The blurry image resembles the Carousel Club Oswald, not an identical twin of the accused assassin.
Last spring we discussed in-depth the doppelgangers being in close proximity to each other during their Depository escape, in your thread Advancing Arnstrong Putting the Puzzle Pieces Together in the Lobby. For each sequence of your argument I had a cohesive rebuttal, which you ignored. I am not going to rehash that discussion and can only suggest that you read it again, SLOWLY. My view is that it is much simpler and straightforward to hypothesize that Lee Oswald went down the west freight elevator and out via the West Annex, and Harvey Oswald went from the lunchroom down the front lobby stairs, where he bumped into Pierce Allman.
So, even adding in Laura Kitrell's "remarkably similar", there isn't any justification at all for assuming the doppelgangers were identical twins. I'm much more comfortable attributing the similarity to family infidelities, as Doran alludes to, rather than a Brave New World projeckt to create "test tube" twins.
I find a definite physical similarity between the short woman next to Marguerite in the "about 1930" photo and the heavy-set woman at Exchange Place- i.e. that's how Aminthe Votier looked 25 years later. And why is this same woman claiming to be the mother of the defector three years later? And then is parading around as the mother of the accused assassin?
Maybe because she really was the accused assassin's biological mother? Thinking aloud, perhaps Marguerite and Aminthe received financial compensation around the time of the defection, to substitute for each other, since their sons were substituting for each other as defectors. And maybe the Murret family had originally suggested a dual role for the teenage doppelgangers in the military. I don't presume to know.
Marina had said that she thought Oswald sounded like he spoke with a Baltic accent when she first met him at the trade union dance. He had already been working at the Belorussian radio factory in Minsk for a year- might not he have taken on the inflection of one of his co-workers or friends from the nearby Baltic republics as he began to practice constant speaking of the language? I fail to see Marina's comment as indicative that he grew up in an earlier time in Eastern Europe.
And the Gardos connection doesn't necessitate that Harvey Oswald grew up in Eastern Europe. Although the frantic caller said she "knew Oswald's father and uncle who were Hungarians and Communists" who lived in the Yorkville section of Manhattan, isn't there a good likelihood that the imposter mother just told anyone who wondered that they were his father and uncle, when the actual father was dead [Robert Oswald Sr.] or back in Louisiana [his brother Harvey F. Oswald]?
I began private e-mail discussions with Doran back in 2010 regarding Armstrong's theory, and he sent me numerous unpublished analyses (as well as his Carswell material, some of which got published in the Dealey Plaza Echo) and we both agreed that if you want to make a doppelganger, biology is the way to go. Particular with the lookalikes at the ages we know about in the Oswald case- 13, 18, 24. It's next-to-impossible otherwise (i.e. matching a refugee from Eastern Europe with a kid from Louisiana; they won't look the same at each of those ages).
MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Brian Doyle - 07-04-2024
The problem with that is the Oswald who just came from the Depository and was seen by Helen Forrest was the same Oswald that was seen by Ochus Campbell and Mrs Reid...Neither of them was on record as saying the Oswald they saw was slightly different than the Oswald seen by Baker & Truly...Mrs Reid saw Oswald in a T-shirt...The reason why the Commission never asked Campbell what the Oswald he saw was wearing is because they knew it was Lee and knew he was wearing a white T-shirt...They deliberately avoided asking Campbell what the Oswald he saw was wearing because they didn't want it leading to more questions...Sometimes what people don't say says more than what they do...
I'm convinced I am correct on my Lobby scenario because it possesses causal evidence that fits the dynamics of what is happening...Mrs Reid saw an Oswald (Lee) who was headed for the front stairs...That Oswald was Lee because he was wearing a white T-shirt...He bought a Coca Cola as a prop to make people think he was the same person as Harvey who was seen by Sarah Stanton and Baker & Truly with a similar Coca Cola...This Oswald went down the front stairs with a timing that was after Harvey had gone down to Lobby to look for CIA Shelley to coordinate permission to leave...Shelley had gone around the west side of the Depository and was coming back inside by that time (3-4 minutes after the shots)...
Harvey in long-sleeves had either gone through the 2nd Floor hallway and down the front stairs or he had gone down the NW stairs and walked to the front door area of the Lobby to wait for Shelley...When Lee stumbled down the front stairs and in to the Lobby he saw Harvey at the far side by the door...Ergonomic/behavioral criminal detection tells you that the Utility Closet is located at a 180 degree sharp hook-turn from the bottom of the front stairs, exactly as a person who needed to quickly get out of view would do in that situation...One must ask what the heck Ochus Campbell's Oswald was doing in the Utility Closet?...The answer is simple...He was getting out of view because he accidentally crossed paths with Harvey and was in peril of blowing the plot...Harvey, meanwhile, saw Lee emerge at the other end of the Lobby and panicked and tried to get out the front door...Both these events are strong CAUSAL evidence reinforcement that only bolsters their real-ness...It explains the actions of both men...The cop at the front door saw Harvey's panic and detained him...We know when this happened because Shelley was back by then and witnessed it at 4 minutes after the shots...Being CIA Shelley knew exactly what was going on and interceded - OK-ing Oswald as an employee with the cop and getting him out of his situation...Shelley then helped Harvey around the police restriction of being told to step aside and wait and led him out the rear exit...Again - what the Commission didn't do says more than what they did and they completely avoided any investigation of that second stop of Oswald in the Lobby because they did not want to reveal all this and blow the conspiracy...This incriminating behavior by the investigators is the mortar that reinforces the evidence...
After Frazier saw the long-sleeved Harvey go east and to the bus on Elm St Lee made sure he didn't cross paths again by going out the rear and going west towards the Grassy Knoll and the Station Wagon...Geneva Hine probably saw both Oswalds as they left the 2nd Floor and was coerced to cover it up - OR - she saw the T-shirt Oswald and was forced to cover it up...
We can't ask Marina about Oswald's accent because she is in a hopeless position...However, from her description I assumed she was saying Oswald sounded like a native Belarus Russian-speaker and not one who had advanced quickly with Berlitz and living in Belarus...
The real crime being committed here is that what we post here is the cutting edge of JFK conspiracy research and the Education Forum is designed exactly for exposure and discussion of these claims...For it to be excluded and denied that necessary examination, that is the alleged purpose of the research community, is criminal - especially when it is due to the less savory aspects of the community and their venal, childish tendencies...It is research by corruption instead of fidelity to good research practices and is inexcusable...
RE: MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Richard Gilbride - 08-04-2024
Brian, there is no substantive evidence for the Oswald doppelgangers being identical twins. I doubt you've even consulted Groden's book The Search for Lee Harvey Oswald. And you persist in the misbegotten analysis from last year's thread Advancing Armstrong in order to foster your contention that the doppelgangers had close encounters with each other as they escaped the Depository, and therefore were easily mistaken for the other and therefore were identical twins.
That misbegotten analysis is a thread-killer. It grew out of your interpretation of Wesley Frazier's interview with Gary Mack, when he claimed he'd seen Oswald exit via the rear loading dock after the assassination. Yet this claim was impossible according to his 1978 HSCA interview, in which Frazier had said he'd gone down the front steps and into the street after the shots. And you were unaware of this critical 1978 evidence as you launched into your reconstruction of the doppelgangers' post-assassination movements.
And I gave you a long sequence of rebuttals to your reconstruction, which I'm not going to rehash. Not only does your analysis climb out on the flimsiest of tree limbs, it then leaps into the void with the notion that these identical twins were originally implanted in different mothers. That notion, to me, is pure fiction.
For better or for worse, I still have to get up and go to work and struggle to make a living in so-called reality. I do not have the gas in the tank to endlessly debate on these forums.
I do know that I have presented Robert Doran's research better than he ever could, and I am happy about that. It is a quantum leap for Harvey & Lee.
MISTAKEN IDENTITY - Brian Doyle - 09-04-2024
The evidence lay as it does...
We know Baker & Truly encountered Harvey in long-sleeves in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...That Oswald exited the Depository by either going down the NW staircase and up to the Lobby to wait for Shelley...OR he went through the 2nd Floor hallway and down the front SE staircase...Either way the long-sleeved Oswald (Harvey) went to the Lobby to wait for Shelley for permission to leave...After Truly cleared Harvey in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room we know Harvey ended up leaving the Depository...
In my view Lee was up on the 6th Floor helping frame Harvey...I personally prefer Armstrong's 6th Floor escape theory because the fake floor job in order to set up a covert escape hatch to the passenger elevator fits the rest of the bizarre Intel tactics we see like the Oswald doubles...Also, Lee showing up in a white T-shirt when Mrs Reid saw him fits the timing of Lee doing Armstrong's 6th Floor escape...Many exceptionally talented persons tend to have eccentricities and Armstrong is one of them...When I had Hargrove tell Armstrong that Lee more likely went through the 3rd Floor hallway in his 6th Floor escape, because it was the more secluded passage, Armstrong told Hargrove that it was a mistake to ever have anything to do with me...Armstrong is stubborn and insists on his word being gospel...I believe Sandy Larsen also had the same experience...
The key here is Postal Inspector Harry Holmes who, because he was outside of the gag-order loop, accidentally repeated information he heard from Oswald of a second stop in the Lobby...When Holmes said this stop happened by the front door in the Lobby he failed to realize he was repeating Oswald's telling of a second stop that was covered-up by the investigators...Holmes told of the long-sleeved Harvey "Going downstairs to see what the commotion was all about"...That was Harvey going from the 2nd Floor Lunch Room, after being confronted by Baker, down to the Lobby...Harvey was either forced to wait in the Lobby by a cop or he was waiting for Shelley to return from the Rail Yard for permission to leave...It was at this moment, 4 minutes after the shots, that Lee stumbled in to the other end of the Lobby from the front stairs and caused Harvey to panic and try to leave through the front door...The cop saw Harvey's panic and took interest, stopping him from leaving...Shelley had returned by then and knew the plot was in serious peril so he stepped forward and OK-ed Harvey with that un-named cop...Proof this is true is the Warren Commission had Holmes on record saying this yet they never made any effort what so ever to ask him more about his putting the stop by the cop in the Lobby in clear detail...The Commission conspicuously avoided identifying and interviewing that cop and put zero investigation in to Oswald's departure from the Depository...The Commission plastered the 2nd Floor Lunch Room Encounter over Holmes' testimony and made it disappear - conflating the two in to one...A sure sign that the Commission knew this was true and was dangerous...It beggars belief that this could be ignored or no conspiracy researcher would inquire why the Commission didn't probe Holmes more on this...They dropped it like a hot potato as fast as they could because they knew exactly what it showed and did not want to give the game away...In Fritz's and Hosty's notes they covered this by paving it over with "Out Front With Shelley" and "Went Outside To Watch Presidential Parade"...However, later, in Turner's 'The Men who Killed Kennedy', Hosty corroborated Fritz's confirmation that Oswald was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination and therefore confirmed where exactly Oswald had "Went Downstairs" from in order to see what the commotion was about...
From Frazier's accounts he started to chase Lovelady & Shelley up the extension to the Knoll but they lost him...Frazier said he turned back to the steps and rejoined Sarah Stanton (Prayer Man)...Stanton asked him what he had seen and Frazier said "nothing"...When Sarah went back inside after a minute or two Frazier said he wandered down to the corner of Elm and Houston where he saw Harvey exit the rear Loading Dock and walk up Houston...Harvey in long-sleeves then crossed over Houston and walked up Elm and out of sight on his way to Armstrong's Bus/Taxi Encounter...
The above is a solving of the puzzle in the Depository and cracks that aspect of the Kennedy Assassination...It is truly ironic that the people who set out to solve the conspiracy, and call themselves the people trusted to do that, are the same people who are denying this and preventing it from being known...The research community would rather suck-up to Jim DiEugenio and his bragging about click counts than actually acknowledge a solving of the conspiracy...These people have spent decades complaining about government corruption and obstruction of the case, however they themselves are much worse when it comes to this good evidence...It figures that it would be the researchers themselves who couldn't handle the research they espouse and blew it all for the sake of petty egotism and protecting their own level of incompetence over objective research...This community complains about the government having too much power but then steps back and gives total dictatorial power to Gordon, Knight, and Tony Krome...Those people are just ordinary internet commenters who happened to get the moderator avatar...Once they got that power they then became dictatorial tyrants with total gate-keeping power to decide who lives and dies in the research community...The current farce that intentionally ignores my brilliant cracking of the case above is the result and they don't feel any obligation for accountability as long as they have the censorship button to help them get out of it...The main Modus Operandi of the current research community is not skill or good research, it is the censorship button and that is no good...