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+--- Thread: Hal Verb (/thread-2761.html)
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Hal Verb - John Kelin - 18-12-2009
Hi all,
I posted the following info to a site similar to this one. Hope no one minds the cross post.
Ray Marcus, an early WR critic, called me this afternoon (12-17) with the news that Hal Verb died a couple of weeks ago, on December 4. He had been in a hospice for the last six months or so.
Like Ray, Hal Verb was an early WR critic. He lived in San Francisco. I met him on several occasions, but when I was researching the early critics a few years back he did not reply to my query letters, so I don't know much about him. He worked with Harold Weisberg for a time, I think, and is mentioned in "Oswald In New Orleans." I think he taught a class about the assassination at San Francisco State College...? Not sure about that though.
I remember Hal speaking on the grassy knoll at a remembrance ceremony a number of years back. He modified a familiar quote usually associated with the CIA: "You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you MAD."
John Kelin
Hal Verb - Jack White - 18-12-2009
John Kelin Wrote:Hi all,
I posted the following info to a site similar to this one. Hope no one minds the cross post.
Ray Marcus, an early WR critic, called me this afternoon (12-17) with the news that Hal Verb died a couple of weeks ago, on December 4. He had been in a hospice for the last six months or so.
Like Ray, Hal Verb was an early WR critic. He lived in San Francisco. I met him on several occasions, but when I was researching the early critics a few years back he did not reply to my query letters, so I don't know much about him. He worked with Harold Weisberg for a time, I think, and is mentioned in "Oswald In New Orleans." I think he taught a class about the assassination at San Francisco State College...? Not sure about that though.
I remember Hal speaking on the grassy knoll at a remembrance ceremony a number of years back. He modified a familiar quote usually associated with the CIA: "You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you MAD."
John Kelin
A CIA document (I cannot locate it at the moment) lists HAL VERB
as an officer in the San Francisco Branch of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee and an agency informant. Once when confronted with
the document on an internet forum, he had no answer, but dropped
off the forum.
Hal once asked to borrow some slides from me and never returned
them.
My opinion of Hal is based on the above comments. RIP.
Jack
Hal Verb - Bernice Moore - 18-12-2009
From: mshack@juno.com (Martin R Shackelford)Subject: COPADate: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 04:11:20 EDTTo: John Kelin======================================================================COPA 1996by Martin ShackelfordThe conference included the usual overlaps, which is frustrating, so Iskipped around a bit, knowing that the main presentations will beavailable on videotape, thanks to the efforts of Bob Groden and DavidStarks. I didn't learn as much as at past conferences, as there was morediscussion of procedures for getting the files out than of what the newfiles contain. Still, there was some information of interest, andopportunities for networking. I had good conversations with JohnArmstrong (Oswald's twin biographies), Gerry Satterfield (a presenter andCOPA volunteer worker), Stephanie (a COPA staffer), and Josiah Thompson(about his transition from professor to detective). Informally, I was told that a former FBI official said upper levelFBI officials believed LBJ was involved; Dan Rather was a boyhood friendof LBJ aide Cliff Carter (Dan Alcorn). A woman who said she was the wifeof the former Marine Commandant (Kay Riggs, or Hunt-Bell--she told meRiggs, I heard her use Hunt-Bell) talked about a Marine-Mossad connectionfor assassin training from the 1950s on; said this was well-known inupper-level Marine circles. At the press conference on Friday, Walt Brown asked thegovernment to simply allow us the truth. Patricia Davis spoke of thepolitical assassinations/death squads in Guatemala. Dan Alcorn spoke ofdrug-related political assassinations (as in Mexico). John Newman notedthat President Clinton is not complying with the Records Act, having saton "30-day" FBI appeals from as long ago as March; he also talked aboutthe CIA and crack cocaine issue, noting the press was trying to turn itinto a racial issue; adding that reporter Walter Pincus has written aboutbeing a former CIA informant ("How I Traveled Abroad on CIA Subsidy"); hecalled for a Cocaine Contra Records Act (which he is helping draft). DickGregory gave a strong, and eloquent talk; Alcorn, his attorney, notedthat Dick had refused to return a call from CIA Director John Deutch, whohad asked Dan for Dick's home number (Dick asked who he was kidding,claiming that the director of the nation's top intelligence agencycouldn't come up with Dick Gregory's home phone number). On Saturday,in the Photographic Evidence Working Panel, BobGroden said the Kodachrome Zapruder film is definitely the cameraoriginal, with the bas-relief effect characteristic of Kodachrome film (afeature I've noted in my Kodachrome slides). He said CBS now owns one ofthe original Nov. 22, 1963 bootleg Zapruder copies. During the Medical Evidence Working Panel, Vince Palamara notedthat Secret Service followup car driver Sam Kinney mentioned that brainmatter splattered on the windshield in front of him; en route back toWashington, in the C-130 with the limousine, Kinney said he found alarge skull piece from the back of JFK's head. Kinney thought very highlyof his good friend Dr. Burkley. Review Board staff notes: Tom Samoluk has taken a job inBoston, and married. Eileen Sullivan is temporarily filling his role. A panel that first evening focused on "CIA, Crack Cocaine andthe Contras," with Peter Dale Scott discussing past CIA druginvolvement. John Newman reviewed recent developments. Dick Gregorytalked about the politics of the battle. He defined a liberal Ku KluxKlan member as one who lynches you from a short tree. On Saturday, John Armstrong continued his important researchwith a talk on "Oswald's Possessions," the early FBI seizure of Oswald'sthings, the seizure of his records from two Fort Worth schools; he playedan HSCA audiotape of Gus Rose on the searches (the Minox was found inOswald's seabag; Ruth Paine identified it as belonging to Oswald);outlined the attempted concealment of Oswald's Minox, as well as otherevidence as the FBI substituted its own evidence photos for those of theDallas Police (210 DPD photos weren't returned); the HSCA audiotape ofRobert Stovall (they found a Minox camera, not a lightmeter); he alsodiscussed the phony W-2 forms from Oswald's New Orleans employers, withtax I.D. numbers assigned in January 1964. Walt Brown outlined the development of the Warren Commissionfrom the LBJ transcripts; John McCloy is described in one call as a"publicity hound"; LBJ tells Sen. Russell "the CIA is worried." Phil Melanson talked about the Robert Kennedy case, and theScott Enyart lawsuit over his photos of the assassination scene. All isnot clear in the case, as Enyart's best friend testified he and Scottweren't in the panty at the time of the shots. William Pepper gave an impressive outline of the case presentedin his book Orders to Kill. He added that other witnesses have comeforward since the book was published. He knows who Raoul is, and hastalked with him on the phone; James Earl Ray knew nothing about guns;Marcello mobster Frank Liberto hired Lloyd Jowers to assist Raoul; Raoulfired the shots; Jowers hid the rifle in his business, Jim's Grill,observed by his waitress-mistress, who recently came forward (twocorroborating witnesses, plus Jowers talked on TV in December 1993,seeking immunity). A witness reported smoke rising from the bushes. TheArmy photographed the assassination and the assassin. Ray's attorneyPercy Foreman knew Raoul from Houston; Raoul was involved the the sale ofArmy guns to Marcello. The Memphis intelligence officer who bent overKing's body was on loan from Army intelligence, and later became a CIAemployee. In the Medical Evidence Panel, Art Smith discussed hisinterview with Dr. John Ebersole, Bethesda radiologist, who said theycalled Dallas that night. Kenneth Rahn noted that Neutron ActivationAnalysis can prove dissimilarity, but can only indicate a possiblecommon source, not prove it; he suggested the probability of the singlebullet theory. In the New Files from Archives II Topic Research Group, JohnNewman noted that Archives II is terribly understaffed. E. Howard Huntwas asked about the DRE in his HSCA deposition, and blurted out:"DavePhillips ran that." He discussed diagraphs, the two-letter prefix to CIAoperational names. ZR represented communications intelligence andstorage; came out of Staff D; also included tightly held operations likeZR/RIFLE, the assassinations program. (Note: Clay Shaw was cleared for aprogram called ZR/CLIFF, according to a recently released document).Staff D was "a good place to hide things." The meaning of QK (Shaw wasalso cleared for QK/ENCHANT) is unknown at present. The CIA is covertlyattacking the Review Board in Washington. An group member who hadrecently visited Harold Weisberg had learned from him that Kerry Thornleyhad been identified by several employees of Jones Printing as the man whopicked up Oswald's leaflets. The next panel discussed opening the files. John Newman calledthe Records Act "a model that works." Peter Dale Scott expressed concernthat some agencies would wait out the Review Board, as they had theWarren Commission and HSCA; he noted the potential importance of MarineG-2 (intelligence) files, and the FBI's Mexico City file. Jim Lesar notednew information on George DeMohrenschildt and the Paines. The Oswald 201file is available; 250-300,000 pages from the CIA Segregated Collection;an the 250 page "John Scelso" deposition; very little from the NationalSecurity Agency or Army; the Board needs to ask for an extension fromCongress, as half their time was spent just getting organized. John Judgerecommended putting pressure on the agencies (faxing, letters, etc.), andpublicizing new data as it becomes available. Newman added that themilitary has released only 3 boxes of files (last month alone, the FBIreleased 40); another oversight hearing is needed. Scott noted therepeated involvement of counterintelligence officers with Oswald, and aMarine G-2unit at New River, North Carolina which included Buck Revell(later FBI assistant director, and Dallas field office chief). In the Panel on JFK and Castro, Peter Dale Scott discussedPaulino Sierra Martinez of Chicago, his ties of RFK ally Harry Williams,Howard Hunt, James McCord, Alpha 66, Bernard Barker, Carlos Prio, JohnMartino and the Minutemen; some, including Frank Sturgis, were reportingon the group to the CIA. Hitman Richard Cain was promised a career in theCIA if he provided information on Sierra's group. Mario Garcia Kohly(see Robert Morrow's books) was backed by Meyer Lansky. The U.S.government protested Castro's deportation of Jake Lansky. The DRE boughtguns from John Masen in Dallas. During the Topic Research Group on Oswald, a participantindicated that David Ferrie sent his CAP cadets to Tulane University formind control experiments. The New York Branch of CAP was founded by CordMeyers Sr, father of the CIA official. At the Sylvia Meagher Awards Dinner, four people were honored:the late Bud Fensterwald, and his AARC co-founder Jim Lesar; Peter DaleScott; and Robert Groden. Patricia Davis delivered a lon, but compellingaccount of the Jennifer Harbury case and related issues in Guatemala,where the military opposed "subversion by electoral means," using CIA andSchool of the Americas training to torture and kill political opponents. On Sunday, the Paines research team (Carol Hewett, Steve Jones,Barbara Lamonica, Bill Kelly) noted that Michael Paine's mother was aclose friend of Allen Dulles' mistress Mary Bancroft. His stepfather,Arthur Young, founded Bell Helicopter, but was upset when they wereconverted in Viet Nam for use as "gunships," instead of used for medicalevacuation as in Korea. Ruth Paine visited the Youngs before going topick up Marina in New Orleans. Oswald seemed to have many "connected"friends. 300 cubic feet of files on Ruth's sister remain classified (sheworked for the Air Force and CIA); their father, like GeorgeDeMohrenschildt, worked for the International Cooperative Alliance (ICA)and AID. Phillip Corso said the Paines were agents. Ruth's husbandMichael and brother Carl both seemed to have been mistaken for Oswald attimes. The Paines collaborated in the FBI's charade about Oswald's Minoxcamera. Michael Paine had numerous previous contacts with FBI agentBardwell Odum. In 1979, Ruth Paine was seen examining documents at theArchives (after HSCA); she now lives in Florida, Michael in Cambridge,Massachusetts. A Review Board update was given by Executive Director DavidMarwell. The Board hasn't yet decided whether to ask for more time; theyhave released 4000 documents, and gotten the agencies to release another4000 by consent. The HSCA and FBI records are nearly completely reviewed.An HSCA FBI group of files and the CIA's HSCA sequestered collection areboth large. They obtained the Dave Powers film, taken from the followupcar. In New Orleans, they got the Metro Crime Commission files, and havecopied all of the Harry Connick files--they are in Court seeking theoriginals. There is no trace of Richard Case Nagell's records. They havereceived J. Lee Rankin's related papers, David Lifton's interviews, andmay get Priscilla Johnson McMillan's papers. They are seeking morerecords from the Secret Service (more were opened last week), othergovernments and the military; the NSA turned out to be very cooperative,after initial delay. The CIA released 36 boxes of HSCA staff notes; theFBI, documents on Johnny Rosselli, Carlos Marcello and E. Howard Hunt; 41boxes of Church Committee documents; Passport Office files; PostalService files; McClellan Committee files. They have asked for mediaout-takes. Medical witnesses, and the family of White House photographerRobert Knudsen (who printed the color autopsy photos) have beeninterviewed. Hal Verb talked about the missing shot. Roger Feinman discussedthe lawsuits of Mark Lane and Robert Groden against the Posner attack adRandom House placed in the New York Times, filed under the Lanham Act,which governs commercial speech. Posner editor Robert Loomis calledundermining faith in the government "a crime." The Lane court appeal washeard by a former law clerk of Earl Warren. Roger made the somewhatexaggerated claim that the critics have not misled anyone. Charles Robbart discussed the conflict between the Lodges andthe Kennedys. The Kennedy limousine was driven by former Lodge driverWilliam Greer. Gerry Satterfield and David Krall proposed a theory thatthe media contained hidden messages announcing the assassination shortlybeforehand, and offered assorted examples, which were at leastthought-provoking--their research is ongoing. Vince Palamara noted that during WFAA's coverage of the FortWorth Chamber of Commerce breakfast, the reporter began to talk about theMcKinley assassination. At the close, Walt Brown announced the COPA Board planned tohold next year's conference in May or June, on a campus where lodgingwould be less costly. John Judge noted that it has been a rough year forCOPA; only about 100 attended the conference. John himself is facingpossible heart surgery in the near future, and he is the glue that holdsCOPA together. The future, as usual, is difficult to predict.
Hal Verb - Bernice Moore - 18-12-2009
<LI class="g w0">Testimony of Hal Verb [url=javascript:void(0)][IMG]linkscanner://safe.gif/[/IMG][/url]
18 Nov 1994 ... VERB: Yes, my name is Hal, H-a-l, and the last name is Verb, ... Other writers will suggest FBI, CIA, my concern here is with the ONI. ...
mcadams.posc.mu.edu/arrb/index75.htm - Cached - Similar -
Hal Verb - Bernice Moore - 18-12-2009
I found an online obit from Legacy.com
Mr. Harold (Hal) Verb Died on December 4, 2009. Born in Philadelphia on April 14, 1931, he moved to San Francisco in 1962 and worked as a printer and bookseller. He declared his atheism at age 17 after reading works by Emanuel Haldeman-Julius, and eventually acquired one of the largest collections of the author's "Blue Books" in the U.S. A recognized pioneer in the Bay Area atheist movement, he was on the board of American Atheists' local chapter and later helped to form Atheists of the San Francisco Region. Hal will be missed by the Bay Area atheist community.from joe backes...thanks..
Hal Verb guest book:
http://www.legacy.com/gb2/default.aspx?bookid=2843405698416
Hal Verb - Peter Lemkin - 18-12-2009
Jack White Wrote:John Kelin Wrote:Hi all,
I posted the following info to a site similar to this one. Hope no one minds the cross post.
Ray Marcus, an early WR critic, called me this afternoon (12-17) with the news that Hal Verb died a couple of weeks ago, on December 4. He had been in a hospice for the last six months or so.
Like Ray, Hal Verb was an early WR critic. He lived in San Francisco. I met him on several occasions, but when I was researching the early critics a few years back he did not reply to my query letters, so I don't know much about him. He worked with Harold Weisberg for a time, I think, and is mentioned in "Oswald In New Orleans." I think he taught a class about the assassination at San Francisco State College...? Not sure about that though.
I remember Hal speaking on the grassy knoll at a remembrance ceremony a number of years back. He modified a familiar quote usually associated with the CIA: "You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you MAD."
John Kelin
A CIA document (I cannot locate it at the moment) lists HAL VERB
as an officer in the San Francisco Branch of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee and an agency informant. Once when confronted with
the document on an internet forum, he had no answer, but dropped
off the forum.
Hal once asked to borrow some slides from me and never returned
them.
My opinion of Hal is based on the above comments. RIP.
Jack
I've always known that he was listed as an officer of the FPCC, but hadn't heard the informant part. I knew Hal fairly well, and we exchanged many letters at one period about 15-17 years ago [he never became computer literate]. I must admit I find the informant part a bit unlikely [though not impossible]. Hal was very poor, and leaned toward Communism, even when I knew him. He seemed to have a genuine interest in the case, and if an informant, was paying out a strange bit part well past when anyone would pay him. I think it is very unlikely, personally, and if on a document might have been done to frame him with the research community. He was, and he admitted to have been a Communist. Rest in Peace, Hal. Bit by bit we are loosing all of our most informed and involved researchers who remember the events and THAT day!
Hal Verb - Jack White - 18-12-2009
Peter Lemkin Wrote:Jack White Wrote:John Kelin Wrote:Hi all,
I posted the following info to a site similar to this one. Hope no one minds the cross post.
Ray Marcus, an early WR critic, called me this afternoon (12-17) with the news that Hal Verb died a couple of weeks ago, on December 4. He had been in a hospice for the last six months or so.
Like Ray, Hal Verb was an early WR critic. He lived in San Francisco. I met him on several occasions, but when I was researching the early critics a few years back he did not reply to my query letters, so I don't know much about him. He worked with Harold Weisberg for a time, I think, and is mentioned in "Oswald In New Orleans." I think he taught a class about the assassination at San Francisco State College...? Not sure about that though.
I remember Hal speaking on the grassy knoll at a remembrance ceremony a number of years back. He modified a familiar quote usually associated with the CIA: "You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you MAD."
John Kelin
A CIA document (I cannot locate it at the moment) lists HAL VERB
as an officer in the San Francisco Branch of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee and an agency informant. Once when confronted with
the document on an internet forum, he had no answer, but dropped
off the forum.
Hal once asked to borrow some slides from me and never returned
them.
My opinion of Hal is based on the above comments. RIP.
Jack
I've always known that he was listed as an officer of the FPCC, but hadn't heard the informant part. I knew Hal fairly well, and we exchanged many letters at one period about 15-17 years ago [he never became computer literate]. I must admit I find the informant part a bit unlikely [though not impossible]. Hal was very poor, and leaned toward Communism, even when I knew him. He seemed to have a genuine interest in the case, and if an informant, was paying out a strange bit part well past when anyone would pay him. I think it is very unlikely, personally, and if on a document might have been done to frame him with the research community. He was, and he admitted to have been a Communist. Rest in Peace, Hal. Bit by bit we are loosing all of our most informed and involved researchers who remember the events and THAT day!
Peter, I may be misremembering the document. I cannot locate it.
Maybe since the FPCC was run by the CIA, perhaps I assumed the
"informant" part. My impression of him was that I could not trust him.
If I run across the document, I will post it.
Jack
Hal Verb - Charles Drago - 18-12-2009
I encountered Hal on numerous occasions during Lancer conferences. His verbosity was enough to drive one to drink -- if, that is, one had not already arrived.
Groans would be heard from conference veterans whenever Hal approached a microphone during a Q&A session. I found him to be well-informed if predisposed to declaring the obvious with a sense of discovery.
That being said, I am saddened to learn of his passing. As a matter of faith and expression of reason, I am certain that he is now trying to explain away the whole atheism thing.
Hal Verb - Peter Lemkin - 19-12-2009
Jack White Wrote:Peter Lemkin Wrote:Jack White Wrote:John Kelin Wrote:Hi all,
I posted the following info to a site similar to this one. Hope no one minds the cross post.
Ray Marcus, an early WR critic, called me this afternoon (12-17) with the news that Hal Verb died a couple of weeks ago, on December 4. He had been in a hospice for the last six months or so.
Like Ray, Hal Verb was an early WR critic. He lived in San Francisco. I met him on several occasions, but when I was researching the early critics a few years back he did not reply to my query letters, so I don't know much about him. He worked with Harold Weisberg for a time, I think, and is mentioned in "Oswald In New Orleans." I think he taught a class about the assassination at San Francisco State College...? Not sure about that though.
I remember Hal speaking on the grassy knoll at a remembrance ceremony a number of years back. He modified a familiar quote usually associated with the CIA: "You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you MAD."
John Kelin
A CIA document (I cannot locate it at the moment) lists HAL VERB
as an officer in the San Francisco Branch of the Fair Play for Cuba
Committee and an agency informant. Once when confronted with
the document on an internet forum, he had no answer, but dropped
off the forum.
Hal once asked to borrow some slides from me and never returned
them.
My opinion of Hal is based on the above comments. RIP.
Jack
I've always known that he was listed as an officer of the FPCC, but hadn't heard the informant part. I knew Hal fairly well, and we exchanged many letters at one period about 15-17 years ago [he never became computer literate]. I must admit I find the informant part a bit unlikely [though not impossible]. Hal was very poor, and leaned toward Communism, even when I knew him. He seemed to have a genuine interest in the case, and if an informant, was paying out a strange bit part well past when anyone would pay him. I think it is very unlikely, personally, and if on a document might have been done to frame him with the research community. He was, and he admitted to have been a Communist. Rest in Peace, Hal. Bit by bit we are loosing all of our most informed and involved researchers who remember the events and THAT day!
Peter, I may be misremembering the document. I cannot locate it.
Maybe since the FPCC was run by the CIA, perhaps I assumed the
"informant" part. My impression of him was that I could not trust him.
If I run across the document, I will post it.
Jack
Hal was a bit eccentric [as are most JFK researchers - each in their own way] and perhaps a bit verbose [no pun intended], but I don't think he was likely working for 'them' when he was FPCC, and positive he was not at our conferences, etc. He and I exchanged letters and information on what I was working on - he never asked what I was doing [the purpose of the information I needed]. While I don't have the document, I have heard before there is one that states he was head of S.F. chapter of FPCC. He never denied it, though I never pointedly asked him about it. That, alone, would certainly make him interested in LHO - which he considered the focus of his research. Again, I have no reason to believe and many personal reasons to not believe Hal was [in 1963 or after] an informer - unless this was done without his knowledge [with phone taps et al.].
Hal Verb - Bernice Moore - 19-12-2009
peter i always recall when mary ferrell died and i think it was martha, one of the girls... that posted in several places on the web...NOW SHE KNOWS.. i cannot help but think that now when we loose another..HAL KNOWS NOW AND WE STILL DO NOT...best b..
antaclaus::dancing:peter i loved this line'' Hal was a bit eccentric [as are most JFK researchers - each in their own way] and perhaps a bit verbose [no pun intended], '':itsme::thefinger:touche
