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+--- Thread: Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile (/thread-3232.html)
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - Linda Minor - 22-03-2010
Adrian Mack Wrote:Quote:Something is wrong with you, Adrina Mack. I consider you a hack, a shill, a troll, a tramp. Take your pick!Dr. Fetzer, the only weapon you have in trying to expose and educate people about the deep state is truth, and your only advantage in this fight is moral.
But I think your “research” is sloppy and divisive.
You don’t appear to be results-orientated.
You append bad information to good.
You foster associations and theories that are lethal to truth.
You accuse others of using the same logical fallacies that you yourself consistently employ, and you do it arrogantly.
Because I choose to believe that you do this with good intent, it breaks my heart.
Mr. Mack,
Do you do any research yourself? Perhaps you could give us a sample of constructive work. I get so tired of watching you attempt to destroy what other people do.
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 22-03-2010
JUDYTH HAS ASKED ME TO POST THIS STATEMENT:
I have limited access to the internet in that I tend to get blocked when trying to access forums. I also get cyber attacks or my blogs vanish, etc. And more....
My eyes aren't good, need glasses to correct double vision, my keyboard has keys that do not work or I have to hit twice, and Dr. Fetzer has kindly stepped in to alleviate some of these limiting factors.
I left forums five years ago due to the kind of red-herring ploys i see with Mr. Mack, who doesn't care one bit about anything posted about Jack Ruby, etc. But he keeps hammering away to divert the thread.
I hope Dr. Fetzer refuses to reply anymore to the question being asked over and over again like a broken record.
Dr. Fetzer has saved my eyes so much that perhaps he has saved my sight from getting even worse, as I attempt to read with my nose almost against the screen....
I cannot read the type at the size it is at the forum.
My friends overseas are so kind and so concerned that they are geing me a big screen TV. How can anyone say enough thank-yous, as they are retired? But they see my problem for themselves....
Dr. Fetzer has spent selfless hours helping make my writing legible, and his patience I hate to see eroded by this hammering, so I do hope it will stop.
I knew from the minute I decided to speak out that it was going to be bad. In fact, my hands shook as I laid out the evidence, gathering it from the many places I had hidden it over the years. Knowing I would be atacked in many ways--and I have been.
As Dr. Fetzer's expert on psyops said, I'm a survivor. I don't know how to thank Dr. Fetzer enough for what he has done.
And thank you, DPF, for giving me a chance to present some of this material.
Sincerely,
Judyth Vary Baker
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - Magda Hassan - 22-03-2010
Possibly useful for Judyth or anyone else with vision issues.
To make the image/words bigger on the computer monitor, like reading on the forum, you can hold down the 'control' key (or Ctrl) and at the same time press the plus sign '+' key. Each press of the plus sign while holding down the other keys will enlarge the image a bit more. Saves having to have your nose against the screen and all that radiation from the monitor.
To get it to go back to the regular size hold the 'control' key and press the minus sign '-' key as many times as it takes to return to normal size.
It comes in handy for 20/20 vision people too when you want to have a closer look at something.
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - Adrian Mack - 22-03-2010
Quote:Mr. Mack,Linda, I’m not a researcher. I’m a reader.
Do you do any research yourself? Perhaps you could give us a sample of constructive work. I get so tired of watching you attempt to destroy what other people do.
I identify myself with the left, and I deplore its failure to grapple with deep political realities. I’m groping for answers.
With that in mind, let me give you a view from the outside:
There are people like John Newman, John Armstrong, Gerald McKnight, Jim DiEugenio, Peter Dale Scott, Michael Parenti, Nafeez Ahmed, Paul Thompson, Naomi Klein, Richard Dolan, Michel Chossudovsky, Gary Webb, Michael Ruppert, Nick Bryant - the list goes on and on - who are formidable researchers, who are self-moderating, and who are assiduous in their use of language.
And there are people Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, and Jim Fetzer, any one of whom has never met an outlandish theory he didn’t like, or gone on to pimp for fun and profit.
Fetzer is the Fox News viewer’s idea of a conspiracy theorist. He’s a walking straw man. A unilateral wrecking ball. A crude sensationalist. You need only look at the way he helped plunge 9/11 truth into ridicule to get the picture. You want this man as your grand poobah? Take him, please.
I despise what I perceive to be his dishonesty, his insidiousness, and his gaseous arrogance. I will not kiss the man’s hem like so many people here.
For the last time: if Jim Fetzer was authentic, he wouldn’t piggyback his theories onto Judyth Vary Baker’s words. That is my point, in a nutshell.
And while I’m saddened to see her letter of support, I’m not surprised. I think Fetzer is giving Judyth Baker bad counsel, probably coaching her, and I certainly don’t think it’s beneath him to exploit the woman for whatever unfathomably Fetzer-esque reason he has for doing it.
Let me reiterate: he controls the information.
If he’d given Baker an honest account of my argument, she would know that I called for a fair hearing. I said it at the very beginning of the thread. I said it more than once. I’ll say it again and again. I believe Judyth Vary Baker deserves justice.
But Jim Fetzer couldn’t even muster an honest account of my argument to the very board I posted it to.
Lest we forget, Jim Fetzer also edited the words of another person – his alleged “expert” – but lacked the consideration to explain why he did it to this board. His cranky excuse, when pushed – “because he asked me to” – is too little, too late.
The only consolation we can take is that Fetzer’s “expert”, at last glance, was actually making a serious reference to the Monarch Program and "Presidential Models". I implore any sober student of the history of mind control and human experimentation who reads this board to consider that for a moment.
The Monarch Program. Presidential Models.
This is an appalling insult to the victims and survivors of real human experiments.
This is Fetzer’s “expert”. Who is also piggybacking his theories onto Baker’s words.
Fetzer’s response to my prodding meanwhile has been page after page of abuse, long accusatory screeds of classic mumbo-Jimbo and, finally, his declaration that I have an “agenda”. Which is actually the one thing he’s gotten right. I do indeed have an agenda, and that’s to make an honest man out of Dr. Jim Fetzer.
If it means getting banned from here, it’s still worth it.
There are dark times ahead. Our only weapon is the truth.
Many thanks to those who actually read and tried to understand what I was trying to say in this thread.
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - Magda Hassan - 22-03-2010
Okay Adrian, leaving aside Dr Fetzer, as that is clearly not going to go places, but thank you for your clarity, what have you got from the postings here about Judyth? Her role in the events? The events around her, then and now?
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - Myra Bronstein - 22-03-2010
Magda Hassan Wrote:Possibly useful for Judyth or anyone else with vision issues.
To make the image/words bigger on the computer monitor, like reading on the forum, you can hold down the 'control' key (or Ctrl) and at the same time press the plus sign '+' key. Each press of the plus sign while holding down the other keys will enlarge the image a bit more. Saves having to have your nose against the screen and all that radiation from the monitor.
To get it to go back to the regular size hold the 'control' key and press the minus sign '-' key as many times as it takes to return to normal size.
It comes in handy for 20/20 vision people too when you want to have a closer look at something.
Wow, that's a great tip. Thanks Maggie.
I've been playing with it non stop since I learned.
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - David Guyatt - 22-03-2010
I have read Adrian Mack's posts this weekend and am not impressed. I find his style unnecessarily combative and repetitive and I conclude they are also designedly divisive.
It seems to me to be one man's campaign designed to diminish Jim Fetzer for reasons that aren't entirely clear. Jim may be right in saying it is projection. It might be more than that. It might just be one man's frustration. Who knows. What I think I do know is that it is unreasonable in its intensity, and that that suggests deeper matters.
But the volume is too high, too screeching, too intense. I think Mr. Mack should set up his own blog focusing on what he regards as the shortfalls of Jim Fetzer, and see how that fares -- rather than continue his endless repetitions here to a ready made audience.
I am also going to add one further comment. The list of researchers Mr. Mack referenced includes as examples of paragons of research - and there are several top class ones included, some of whom I know personally - there is at least one who I also knew well, who I was involved with and who I knew for a fact was not in the least bit self moderating, who was so self serving and self promotional and who made such basic errors in accuracy and judgement, that I stopped all involvement with him.
This, I would suggest, highlights the often fundamental differences between people who read others research and then feel able to comment decisively upon it - when they really can't (it is at best a largely uninformed opinion), as opposed to people who get down and do it. One side is theoretical and at a distance and the other is dirty hands practical.
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 22-03-2010
This list of complaints from Adrian Mack appears to be quite peculiar given that, in relation to the Judyth thread, my role has been rather modest. While I created the thread, virtually my entire involvement has been to perform minor edits of Judyth's emails and post them on her behalf. I have also invited my psy ops expert to offer his observations, where, once again, apart from even more limited edits, his contributions have been posted as he sent them to me. My role here, apart from responding to his attempts to distract the course of the thread, has actually been quite restrained.
The only times that I have advanced my views has been in relation to Adrian's attempts to derail the threat by practices that are typical of trolls and shills, especially by finding some very minor matter, such as a reference in passing to Eustice Mullins (of whom I had previously never heard), and turning it into a grand contretempts. And that appears to have been his intent: to disrupt, to distract and to derail one of the most fascinating threads in any forum's history! Based upon his list of purported objections, however, it is obvious that something else has been going on.
His latest post, no doubt, reveals his deeper objective, which is to trash me. Given my modest role here in posting on behalf of Judyth and my psy ops expert, nothing inherent to this thread could possibly justify what he declares he is about. What it tells me is that my inference that he had an agenda was right on the mark. He has been attempting to subvert this thread, even though--in my view as well as those of others--it is historic and sheds enormous light upon one of the most mysterious figures in American history and his role in one of our most consequential historical events.
His characterizations of me are virtually completely unsupported, even though he holds them with extreme intensity. His hostility toward me is palpable. But have I committed the offense he asserts, which is the only one that matters here: if Jim Fetzer was authentic, he wouldn’t piggyback his theories onto Judyth Vary Baker’s words. That is my point, in a nutshell. It's an interesting claim if it were true, but I am at a loss as to what "theories" I am supposed to be imposing upon Judyth's story? I have been as fascinated to learn what she has to say next as everyone else!
Just to make it obvious that this guy is blowing smoke, WHAT THEORIES AM I SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN PROMOTING AT JUDYTH'S EXPENSE? Presumably, of course, they have to do with JFK. Having done as much work as I have on this subject, I have drawn many conclusions and published many articles to support them. But the preponderance of my work has been on the medical evidence and the Zapruder film. I have a chapter about Oswald in MURDER IN DEALEY PLAZA (2000), but that discusses the absence of evidence that could have been used to convict him in a court of law, which would have been impossible.
Apart from that, however, my knowledge of Lee has been virtually non-existent--apart from the obvious indications that he was recruited by ONI, was acting on behalf of the government in his pseudo-defection to the USSR, and other rather common knowledge about his role in these events. So I have been learning a tremendous amount about the alleged assassin from a unique and valuable source, which, of course, I have been sharing as I have been posting, never knowing where we would be going next, but always in the expectation that her next revelation might be more significant than the last.
Which means that I DON'T HAVE ANY THEORIES TO PIGGYBACK! Which means that, as I have observed in the past, Adrian Mack is a hack! While it gives me no pleasure to draw that inference, I have dealt with attack after attack from within the JFK community, especially by a small but dedicated group led by Josiah Thompson, which continues to defend the authenticity of the Zapruder film long after the matter has been resolved. I would observe that, like Mack, Tink has obvious intellectual accomplishments with respect to his Ph.D. in philosophy from Yale. But also like Mack, he exaggerates, prevaricates, and makes allegations that he cannot substantiate BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE ISN'T THERE.
What could be a better example that this is a completely contrived attack than the fact that I cannot be "piggybacking" theories that I do not hold? I have many opinions about many matters involving JFK, Paul Wellstone, and 9/11, some of which are extremely controversial, especially to those who have never studied the evidence. It took me years to open my mind to the possibility of video fakery in New York, for example, but after featuring one student after another on my radio programs and reviewing the evidence in detail, I am convinced and even publish about it. (See, for example, "New Proof of Video Fakery on 9/11", which summarizes much of the evidence.)
As the founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, of course, I have dealt with many controversial issues and done my best to explain how the principles that define scientific reasoning are applicable to controversial cases like 9/11 and JFK. Indeed, my background in the philosophy of science has been the core reason why I have not become involved in study of the personalities, like Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald, who were involved, even though I had more than 100 conversations with Madeleine Duncan Brown and met and studied the role of Chauncey Marvin Holt, but they were special cases.
My approach to both of these cases is well-exemplified by "Thinking about 'Conspiracy Theories': 9/11 and JFK", which would become a chapter of my first book on 9/11, THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY: THE SCAMMING OF AMERICA (2007). (Like the article on video fakery, it, too, is accessible via google.) But I had not thought that this thread was the right place to discuss any of these issues, even though I am supposed to have "helped plunge 9/11 truth into ridicule" by not swallowing manifest absurdities about planes that can fly faster than is aerodynamically possible and melt into buildings with nary a trace in violation of Newton's laws of motion.
The idea that he wants "to make an honest man" of me is a fantasy! All of my difficulties with different individuals, like Josiah Thompson, and groups, like many in the 9/11 movement, has been because I will not compromise in the application of logic and critical thinking and scientific reasoning to the available, relevant evidence. After 35 years teaching students the principles of responsible reasoning, I will not countenance fallacious arguments in the pursuit of truth. And I find it offensive in the extreme that someone like Adrian Mack would advance his personal agenda to smear me by derailing the enormously important contributions of Judyth Vary Baker!
My honesty is not in doubt, but Adrian Mack has now revealed that he has had a covert agenda all along. He has formed opinions about me that have nothing to do with Judyth Baker, with Lee Oswald, or with my expert on ops. Indeed, he, too, concluded, long ago, that Adrian Mack was not an honest broker but had an agenda to subvert this thread. Now that we have it from Adrian Mack himself, let me suggest that these posts, which have nothing to do with the purposes of thread, be moved to a new one about James H. Fetzer. It would be my pleasure to mop the floor with the likes of Adrian Mack--but neither it nor he belongs on this thread, which is dedicated to Judyth's story.
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 22-03-2010
SOME COMMENTS FROM JUDYTH ABOUT ADRIAN:
Dr. Fetzer doesn't tell me what to write or what to say. Shame on Mack for suggesting a collusion between Dr. Fetzer and myself. By saying this occurs, he implies that both of us are dishonest people. Dr. Fetzer doesn't even have a clue as to what I might bring next to the table. That's because I'm busy on several things at once right now...
When he first interviewed me, I told Dr. Fetzer that he must consider the cost to himself -- that he would be attacked, demeaned, attempts would be made to diminish his reputaiton -- just as happened to the fine researcher Martin Shackelford, on McAdams' newsgroup after long service there trying to keep McAdams honest.
As I've said before, once an accusation is raised, even if you happen to be Jesus Christ, from then on, people will 'wonder' -- so I resist and reject at once the implication that Dr. Jim Fetzer tells me what to do, write, say, or changes anything...In fact, I wish he would correct more typos!
The matter does serve to separate the wheat from the chaff, however. Now you know the character of Mr. Mack -- who sounds an awful lot like Gary Mack....
JVB
Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 22-03-2010
FROM MY PSY OPS EXPERT:
The story could have more bite than anyone first thought!
Jim, it just hit me. Can you imagine what would happen if a large block of different public groups ever get wind of the apparent fact that Simian SV-40 virus fragments are in over 50% of current cancers and as well most vaccinations, and have been since the time polio vaccine was released?
Some researchers have placed the figure at 70+ of all current cancers having these SV-40 virus fragments from money kidney cultures originally and feel certain that these fragments caused the cancers!
Jim, can you imagine the size of the class action lawsuits against the vaccine producers if it can be proven that they knew about it right from the start and all along too, which is what Judyth Vary's story supports? Of course then the laws protecting vaccine manufacturers from liability go out the window because this is considered criminal negligence.
Jim, we are talking about over 100 Billion Dollars in damages at a minimum and maybe in the Trillions. Judyth's story may be more important than anyone first thought.
Let me know what you think about this.
Also, I want to congratulate you on the whole thread on each of the two forums, Education and Deep Politics, for the way you managed it and distilled Judyth's story down to the essence, the most important facts of the case.
You have a way of bringing out the best in researchers and witnesses. Very good work on this Judyth Vary story, Jim.
I can hardly wait to get a copy. It is going to be a very important book, I can just see it coming out that way. Screw all the naysayers, this is going to be something BIG.
Congratulations to Judyth too, for not quitting and doing such a great job surviving and overcoming adversity to get her story out. Her day is coming, and she will have the peace and joy that she so well deserves.