Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - Printable Version

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Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

This is a preliminary response to Jack White's post #166. I have more to post shortly.

1) ROBERT SIGNS OFF AS 'RAT' CAN BE POSTED WITH MY ANSWER TO JACK WHITE...NOTE POSTCARD, AS WELL...SENT TO ME FROM MY HUSBAND, ROBERT, AS HE WAS HAVING FUN WITH FRIENDS IN NEW ORLEANS, WHERE I WAS LIVING... DROPPED OFF A POSTCARD TO ME, HIS WIFE...WE HAD BEEN MARRIED LESS THAN 2 1/2 MONTHS AT THIS TIME...

[Image: 2mqntjc.jpg]

2) 'DR. NO' POSTER.

JACK WHITE STATED WE DID NOT SEE A JAMES BOND MOVIE...FOR BARB HAD POSTED THAT WE DID NOT SEE 'FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.' WHICH I SAID IN AN INTERVIEW IN HOLLAND WHICH WAS CLIPPED AND DID NOT MENTION THAT WE SAW 'DR. NO' ..... I SAID AFTER THE INTERVIEW THAT I WASN'T SURE IF WE HAD SEEN 'FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE' AS WELL.

LEE AND I DISCUSSED BOTH MOVIES BECAUSE WE LOVED JAMES BOND NOVELS AND HAD READ THEM ALL. ONE WE SAW, THE OTHER NOT, BECAUSE LEE DIED BEFORE IT CAME OUT. PILLORY ME FOR THAT? (Dr No opened stateside in May 1963.)

[Image: f3yuh.jpg]

[quote name='Jack White' post='185978' date='Mar 7 2010, 07:30 PM']Amazing.

I find it interesting that though JVB says her new husband left her "immediately" after
their marriage she somehow (not explained) was able to conceive 5 beautiful children
by someone. Mr. Baker is very conspicuous by his absence in her stories.

Thanks to whomever accumulated all these quotes, sayings, non-sayings, rebuttals, excuses,
etc. which I had never seen. They are helpful in trying to understand this strange hiccup
in the JFK case.

I wish that included had been the JVB responses to the 12 years of documented research
by John Armstrong showing that two different persons (or more) used the name "Lee
Harvey Oswald". As I recall, her reply was that there was only ONE Oswald..."LEE".

According to Armstrong's documentation, the LHO who worked at Reily Coffee Company
was not Lee, but HARVEY. I guess "Lee" withheld that secret from her.[/quote]

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

More from Judyth on several of Jack's posts. There
are some typos here, which are due to her poor vision.

Please note my comments on THE JACK WHITE post:.

[Image: sbrcqa.jpg]

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

Further replies from Judyth to Jack White with more on the way:

JACK DOES NOT QUOTE FROM ARMSTRONG'S BOOK.

THIS IS UNFORTUNATE.

He says that the ZIGER sisters stated Lee was only 5'2"....

WE HAVE THE WORK THAT PETER WRONSKI DID IN "LEE HARVEY OSWALD IN MINSK" WHERE HE DISPUTES LEE AS BEING SHORT.

WRITES WRONSKI ON HIS WEBSITE:

"One of the theories that circulates around the JFK assassination has to do with the premise that Lee Harvey Oswald was substituted by another person either before or during his voyage to the USSR...There was the haunting photograph of Oswald posing with his wife Marina, the only known full-length photo of the couple, where the 5'11" Oswald (according to his passport) is barely taller than the 5'3" Marina. This photo is often cited by the Oswald substitutionists. There it was, in black and white: the height discrepancy was undeniable and Oswald is toe-to-toe with Marina who is wearing flats. How could the 5'11" Oswald (or 5'9" as other records indicate [USMC photo for example] ) appear to be in the photo only one or two inches higher than the 5'3" Marina? It is a photograph that traveled with me to the Soviet Union..."

HE DISCOVERED THAT LUCY PETRUSEVICH, STANDING IN THE SAME SPOT, WAS 'TOO TALL'--JUST AS MARINA LOOKED 'TALLER' THAN SHE REALLY WAS:

[Image: fjqmnq.jpg]

"In the famous photo, Marina was standing on that slope. If one takes a closer look at Marina's feet in the black and white photograph below, one sees how they are slightly pointed downwards: one can see the top of her shoes and instep. Marina's right heel is raised higher than the toe and slopes downwards. Her left toe is at the same level with Oswald's, but the her heels are higher. While the shaded slope is not as easily visible in the photograph, once one knows it is there, one can make out its subtle angle. The height discrepancy, however, between people is dramatically visible even if the slope is not. That is why Oswald appears to be nearly the same height as Marina. It is not Oswald who is too short; it is Marina who is boosted higher a few inches! "

Peter shows us Lucy and "OLga"--Olga is much taller than Lucy, but when photographed in the same positons as the Oswald-Marina photo, Olga loses considerable height. Go see it for yourself [NOTE: where there is a slight elevation close to the wall] at:

LEE-MARINA HEIGHT DISCREPANCY EXPLAINED
http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald/discrep.htm

Then there are the sisters Mr. White says were interviewed--the "Ziglers" :

An attached photo showing Lee fishing with the girls cannot be judged because he is standing on a steep bank--the other girl is a dwarf if we consider there is no embankment. This photo can't count as we seek the answer about Lee's height.

[Image: 34jf68m.jpg]

Note in the third photo, where Lee wears sunglasses, he does not look like 'a little boy' and is quite the normal size as everybody else in the photo, which was published in the W.C.

[Image: rhpe6f.jpg]

The next photo shows Lee with Marina--this is the same Lee I knew, and they are photographed by a third party...Note that Lee is quite a bit taller than Marina. Marina and I were exactly the same height--5' 2"--so you can see that Lee is nowhere close to 5' 2" in height.

[Image: 2jenx8z.jpg]

Did Armstrong take the word of the sisters over the evidence of photographs? Did he misreport their statements? Did Jack misreport the matter? Did somebody pose as the sisters to throw Armstrong off? (doubtful)

===All of this is again distratcing from the evidence and leads that I have tried so hard to get to public attention....I am quite concerned if Armstrong concludes that Lee (Harvey? who?) was only 5'2" tall. We have clear indications that somehow the sisters are either mistaken, misreported, or perhaps suffering from Alzehiemer's (just joking). One way or another, these reports are wrong.

Judyth

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

Judyth responds to Barbara Junkkarinen:

Junkkarinen writes:

She has a similar situation with their first kiss. On page 172, Volume 1, in a passage just before a section subtitled, THURSDAY MORNING, MAY 9, 1963, she relates a moving scenario of their first kiss. After the setup, she writes this:

Lee then reached for me, and kissed me. Goodness, that man could kiss! The song, Then He Kissed Me roared through my head: ...

The song, Then He Kissed Me, by the Crystals, was not released until 3 months later ... in August 1963. I believe it was Steve Thomas on the moderated group who first found the month the song was released.

===

FORTY YEARS PASSED WHEN I WROTE THAT.

BARB IS RIGHT...I DIDN'T THINK OF THE SONG WHEN LEE KISSED ME AT THAT TIME...I THOUGHT OF IT LATER, AND WISHED WE COULD HAVE KISS AGAIN, LATE IN NOVEMBER, WHEN IT SHOT TO THE TOP OF THE CHARTS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE MASS OF THINGS I HAVE SAID AND LIVED THROUGH, I THINK I HAVE DONE VERY WELL, OVER ALL, CORRECTLY RECOLLECTING TINGS. I HAD PLACED A LIST OF SONGS THAT WERE IMPORTANT TO ME AND ALSO, IN MANY CASES, IMPOPRTANT TO LEE, IN 1963, IN MY DIARY.

HERE'S THE LIST

RUMBLE (GUITAR RIFFS)

THE LONELY BULL BY HERB ALPERT

THEN HE KISSED ME

I LOVE HIM, I LOVE HIM, I LOVE HIM

EXODUS BY PAT BOONE

THE KING AND I

JAMES BOND THEME DR. NO.

LAWRENCE OF ARABIA THEME

BOLERO

LET IT BE ME--THE EVERLY BROTHERS
(THAT WAS OUR LOVE SONG)

STRAVINSKY'S FIREBIRD SUITE

EVERYTHING BY BEETHOVEN AND MOZART

THE WAYWARD WIND BY GOGI GRANT

SONGS BY THE PLATTERS, ESP. SMOKE GETS IN YOUR EYES

[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='186031' date='Mar 8 2010, 12:22 AM'][quote name='William Kelly' post='185877' date='Mar 7 2010, 12:55 AM']I don't doubt that she saw a James Bond film with Oswald (I just want to know the date and circumstance) so it can be added to Oswald's chronology.[/quote]

Hi Bill,

I recall running across some posts from 2004 where you were one discussing her having claimed that she and Oswald saw From Russia With Love .... and that it was pointed out that film was not released in the US until sometime in 1964. Judyth apparently had then said that someone else wrote the wrong movie name, and they had actually seen Dr. No together.

In her book, published in 2006, Judyth says this on page 246 of Volume 1:
Dr. No was the first James Bond movie to be released, and Lee, who had been reading Fleming's novels with gusto for some time (he would re-read them this summer, as well) loved every minute of it, including the music. He would eagerly anticipate the release of the second Ian Fleming spy novel to be filmed, From Russia With Love, but he would not live to see it.

She includes that passage in a section subtitled: MAY 22 - 23 - 24, 1963, in Chapter 15. The next paragraph says, The work week ending, May 24
found us still mellow ...

So, from that, it would seem she claims she saw Dr. No with Oswald on May 23rd.

She has a similar situation with their first kiss. On page 172, Volume 1, in a passage just before a section subtitled, THURSDAY MORNING, MAY 9, 1963, she relates a moving scenario of their first kiss. After the setup, she writes this:

Lee then reached for me, and kissed me. Goodness, that man could kiss! The song, Then He Kissed Me roared through my head: ...

The song, Then He Kissed Me, by the Crystals, was not released until 3 months later ... in August 1963. I believe it was Steve Thomas on the moderated group who first found the month the song was released.

http://rateyourmusic.com/release/single/th...brother_julius/

The song wasn't even written by Phil Spector until July:
- By July, 1963, Phil Spector had already made the Top 100 with 7 chart hits that he produced. He successfully ended his partnership with Lester Sill and began his marriage to Annette Merar. Shortly after his marriage, Spector traveled to New York looking for a song to follow up on the Crystals success with "Da Doo Ron Ron." "Then He Kissed Me" was the perfect song for the group and Phil put together one of his most extravagant productions for the record. (Thanks to Kent at the Forgotten Hits newsletter, which you can join at The60sshop@aol.com.)

http://www.lyricalcontent.com/69605/lyrics...hekissedme.html

Bests,
Barb :-)
[/quote]

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

Judyth responds to more questions from Jack White and from Barbara Junkkarinen:

Jim...JVB claimed to be one of the women in this photo. Please ask her which one is her. Thanks.

Jack

==WE NOW HAVE EVIDENCE that Jack White did not read my answers to Dave Reitzes, POSTED BY DR. FETZER. I made it clear that I never knew for sure if this was my photo or not.

Jack repeats the question. Either he is not interested in finding out the truth about me, by reading what was posted, thus failing to read my comment about that very question, or his memory is faulty, or he is being specious. I regret that none of these possibilities are complimentary, and I fear that he will take umbrage thereby.

In 2006, Shackleford was able to stablize the photo and I then told him the pattern on the dress was not the same and I no longer believed this could be me. This was after what was posted to the Simkin Forum.

But if Jack White had actually read what you had posted, Jim, he would not have asked the question.

Jack is not reading the posts. Is he just throwing red herrings out there? Remember, the more questions you ask a witness, the more people decide the witness must have problems. That's human nature and psychology.

Barb is also misrepresenting the matter in Sweden. She avoids the fact that she and others accused me of being an illegal alien. Pamela and Shackleford did not trot the information out to create trouble, but in my behalf.

She repeats what was found in my file and makes it look like being rejected means I had no case. That was not true. I would have been deported at once had that been the case. Imagine all the people that would be in the system if they just let 'everybody' who came into Sweden seeking political asylum to be granted entrance.

Barb also did not mention, did she, that I had the right to file another petition. Such petitions can take up to a year to be answered. I did not want to be a parasite in the system: I obtained the means to survive without filing another petition.
Even Barb must admit that THAT is true.

She seems to wish to place my rejection in a bad light, when it is remarkable that they protected me for so long when I was an American woman. I am not allowed to tell the details of who helped me in the system to make sure that my case was placed in INHIBITION.

INHIBITION IS A SPECIAL DEVICE USED WHEN MORE EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED. IT IS INVOKED SO THAT THE DEPORTATION ORDER CANNOT GO THROUGH.

Look at this case of a woman in 2000. It shows how important and unsuaul INHIBITION is (since Barb did not show you how important that was, I will):

Complaint No. 164/2000

Submitted by: L.M.T.D. (name withheld)

Alleged victim: The complainant

State party: Sweden

Date of submission of complaint: 22 March 2000

The Committee against Torture, established under article 17 of the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment,

Meeting on 15 May 2002,

Having concluded its consideration of complaint No. 164/2000, submitted to the Committee against Torture under article 22 of the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment,

Having taken into account all information made available to it by the complainant and the State party,

Adopts the following decision under article 22, paragraph 7, of the Convention.

1.1 The complainant is L.M.T.D., a Venezuelan citizen currently residing in Sweden. She claims that her return to Venezuela following Sweden's refusal to grant her political asylum would constitute a violation of article 3 of the Convention. She is represented by counsel.

The facts as submitted by the complainant:

[what follows is a list of evidence]...<snip>

2.5 The complainant and her family applied for political asylum in Sweden on 19 March 1998. The Swedish National Migration Board rejected the application on 24 August 1998, claiming that the facts did not in any way constitute grounds for asylum in Sweden...An application for inhibition was later filed with the Aliens' Commission, but it was denied...

...

5.1 ...The complainant nevertheless maintains that there is a clear danger that she would be put on trial and given a long prison sentence and that there is therefore also a danger that she would be subjected to torture in a Venezuelan prison, in violation of article 3 of the Convention.

YOU SEE THAT IN THIS CASE, INHIBITION WAS DENIED, THOUGH THE PERSON FEARED TORTURE ON BEING RETURNED TO VENEZUELA WITH CHAVEZ IN POWER. HOWEVER, I WAS GRANTED INHIBITION.

IT MEANT THAT I WAS ABLE TO SAY MUCH LONGER IN SWEDEN. I DID NOT ABUSE THAT PRVILEGE AND LEFT AS SOON AS I WAS ABLE AND DID NOT FILE A PETITION TO TRY TO STAY LONGER. I COME AND GO IN SWEDEN NOW BECAUSE I NEVER RECEIVED A DEPORTATION ORDER.

note also, from the website, in regard to the negative I got that was placed in INHIBITION: ordinarily, you do not even get a lawyer. However, I was given a lawyer.

'Appealing the decision':

'If you believe the refusal is incorrect, you may appeal against it, but you have no right to remain in Sweden and wait for the decision on your appeal. Normally you do not have the right to a public counsel that can help you with your appeal. The appeal must be in writing and be received by the Swedish Migration Board within 21 days from the date on which you were notified of the decision.'

HOWEVER, I WAS GIVEN A LAWYER IN UPPSALA, AND HE PREPARED BRIEFS. I WAS ALSO GIVEN INHIBITION, AS BARB HERSELF MENTIONS.

HER MAKING IT SEEM THAT I CAME TO SWEDEN FOR NO GOOD REASON AND WAS 'KICKED OUT' SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE. IT IS A MISREPRESENTATION.

IN ADDITION, SOMEONE WHO IS DEPORTED HAS TO GIVE BACK THE CARD THAT I STILL HAVE. I CAN PROVE THAT I STILL OWN THE CARD. IF I HAD RECEIVED A DEPORTATION ORDER, THIS CARD WOULD NOT BE STILL IN MY POSSESSION. NOTE THIS QUOTATION FROM THE WEBSITE:

"Before you leave the country, you must return your LMA card. You must also return your debit card if you previously received financial compensation from the Swedish Migration Board."

ANOTHER RULE IS THAT A PERSON DEPORTED IS NOT ALLOWED TO RETURN TO SWEDEN FOR, I BELIEVE, FIVE YEARS.

Judyth

[quote name='Jack White' post='186003' date='Mar 7 2010, 10:10 PM']Jim...JVB claimed to be one of the women in this photo. Please ask her which one is her. Thanks.

Jack[/quote]

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

All,

Taking a modest break, I must say that I am astounded at Judyth's resilience under this barrage, which has been going on in relation to her since 2004! I doubt that anyone who is challenging her could do anywhere near matching her performance in dealing with these issues, which date back to 1963 and often involve minutia. I would not be able to do anything remotely as thorough and as detailed as has Judyth over this extraordinary interval of time. I would point out, moreover, that her information about cancer research and bioweapons is almost certainly the real reason for her ongoing harassment and the controversy that swirls around her, as my psy ops expert has observed. I would ask Jack to bear in mind that this may well be the real reason for all of this blizzard of attacks and attempts to discredit her. As far as I am concerned, she is more competent and capable at conducting research than 95% of the members of this forum, many of whom fall short by comparison. Therefore, I want to emphasize that she has already advanced many leads and new identifications by role for familiar and unfamiliar names alike. Jack is asking about her identification of those in various photographs, which is closely related to John Armstrong's research on "the two Oswalds". Before we hear from Judyth on this subject, I want to remind everyone of Jack's photographic portfolio, which includes these images, and to thank Kathy Beckett for an excellent link to an introduction of Armstrong's work, which I recommend that everyone who is interested in this thread should read in the next few days.

Jim

[Image: 28hmqhk.jpg]

[quote name='Kathy Beckett' post='186040' date='Mar 8 2010, 01:18 AM']

Dr. Fetzer,

For a fairly quick read on Armstrong's work, this is perfect.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071130023401/...m/harveyandlee/

Kathy[/quote]

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

Here are more replies from Judyth about the Mexico City trip:

NO NEW EVIDENCE THAT CAN HELP RESEARCHERS DETERMINE IF LEE WENT TO MEXICO CITY OR NOT?
THINK BIOWEAPON....THINK OCHSNER...THEN READ....

The divorce 'rumor'...Lee crossed the border by car, not by bus. He rented or was given a car to use on the Mexican side of Nuevo Laredo. He did several things at that time, including visiting the USPHS station, telling someone there where he left the bioweapon when it wasn't handed off as planned. I have to find those documents but they exist in W.C. files.

Nobody has been able to account for Lee’s reported stop at the US Public Health Service station at the border, and in fact, the information was later quashed. The visit of course occurred.

There he reported leaving the bioweapon, due to its dangerous contents, and revealed its location at the souvenir shop, to an unknown authority. There is some evidence for this below (The Affidavit of William Kline denies this, but read both affidavits):

The following affidavit was executed by William Kline on July 31, 1964.

PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF AFFIDAVIT
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY STATE OF TEXAS, County of Webb, as:
William Kline, being duly sworn, deposes and says that:

4. With respect to Lee Harvey Oswald, I have no personal knowledge
whatsoever of any check made on him by the United States Public Health
Service, Laredo, Texas, either upon his entry into or exit from Mexico in 1963.

Signed this 31st day of July 1964.
( S ) William Kline, WILLIAM KLINE.

Affidavit of Oran Pugh

The following affidavit was executed by Oran Pugh on August 26, 1964.

PRESIDENT’S COMMISSION ON THE ASSASSINATION OF AFFIDAVIT
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY STATE OF TEXAS, County of Webb, as:
Oran Pugh, being duly sworn, deposes and says that:

1. I am Agent in Charge, United States Customs, Laredo, Texas.

2. Subsequent to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, I received
many telephone inquiries from news reporters from various parts of the United States.

. . .

4. In any event, all information supplied by me to news reporters was not based
upon my personal knowledge; rather, all such information was supplied to me by my
assistant, William Kline…

. . .

( b ) Lee Harvey Oswald checked into the United States Public Health Service,
International Bridge, Laredo, Texas, upon his re-entry into the United States in October 1963.

( c ) The Immigration and Naturalization Service does not presently have, nor has it ever
maintained a file containing information concerning Oswald’s trip to Mexico in 1963.

Signed this 26th day of August 1964.
(S) Oran Pugh, ORAN PUGH J. E. Curry

QUOTE FROM MY MANUSCRPT:

Lee also told me he had learned, while in Mexico, how we could easily obtain quickie divorces just across the border. After the assassination, The Warren Commission could not ignore reports (called “rumors” by the FBI) that Lee had asked about their divorce laws at some border towns. The FBI announced that “rumors” at one town had to refer to a man called Harvey Larry Rudcon, divorced three years earlier, in 1960. Bad roads stopped the FBI from looking into “rumors” in another border town.

REF: Commission Exhibit 2123

0/03/63: According to an FBI report located at the National Archives by Mr. [John] Armstrong in May 1999, the FBI had tracked Oswald's return trip to the U.S. from Mexico City, indicating that Oswald took a La Frontera bus from Mexico City… arriving at the border town on Nuevo Laredo on the morning of 10/3/63.

Of interest: Attached photo is view from Reily's that I photographed...The dark building not very far down the street is Eli Lily's. Lee only had to go there to pick up chemicals for us. He also dropped off materials there. Talk about convenient! Somebody at Eli Lilly's was involved in supplying the project with untraceable chemicals.

[Image: j61xdc.jpg]

You have Banister's right around the corner.

You have HUAC--Willis' office--right across the street.

You have Crescent City garage next door, where CIA and FBI and other agency vehicles park every day and get maintenance. They are actually renting space there, out of the sun.

You have Federal Building offices...All the intelligence community...

And you have Lee H. Oswald, 'defector' working for the anti-communist Reily Coffee Company--they are charter members of Ochsner's INCA organization.

How involved was the busy Ochsner with Lee Oswald?

Attached see Ochsner's photo on the back of the record PORTRAIT IN RED--where Lee's "debate' with Bringuier takes place.

At one point the voice of Alton Ochsner is heard on the recording.

[Image: 2mxg0lw.jpg]

What was the busy doctor doing at an obscure WDSU recording, later turned into a INCA recording?

What it meant is that Ochsner was perhaps the only person who knew Lee was a returned defector.

[Image: 264thc4.jpg]

FACT: Ochsner had met and knew Lee Oswald BEFORE the recording was made.

NEW EVIDENCE? THE LINKS BETWEEN ALL OF THIS WERE PREVIOUSLY UNKNOWN UNTIL I SHOWED THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OCHSNER, OSWALD, AND THE PROJECT...MOST OF THE SUPPORTING INFORMATION WAS RARELY, IF EVER, MENTIONED. NOBODY COULD TIE IT TOGETHER BEFORE NOW. BUT YOU ARE STARTING TO GET THE BIGGER PICTURE.

[Image: 29pz2c4.jpg]

BARB WILL TRY TO BRING UP SOME SILLY SIDE ISSUE, SUCH AS THE SIZE SOCKS I SAID I WORE AT ONE TIME IS INACCURATE...OR LIKE THE INDIANA BIOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION--A LOOSELY-KNIT ORGANIZATION I MET AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME--SHE COULD NOT FIND THEM REGISTERED, SO SHE SAID THEY DID NOT EXIST AND THAT I LIED... ETC, ETC...ANYTHING TO DIVERT FROM THE BIG PICTURE...

JVB

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

More from Judyth about McAdams' disinformation and Dr. Mary Sherman:

Attached: WALL STREET JOURNAL FRONT PAGE STORY ON DR. MARY SHERMAN'S MURDER AND
CALLING HER A CANCER RESEARCHER. COLLECTED FOR JVB BY RESEARCHER TOM ROZOFF.

[Image: 35byywj.jpg]

HERE IS WHAT MCADAMS POSTED:

From: John McAdams (john.mcadams@marquette.edu)

> Subject: What's wrong with Judyth's account?
> View: Complete Thread (96 articles)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: alt.assassination.jfk
> Date: 2003-07-09 21:19:07 PST
>
>
> I'm posting this as the beginning of critique of the "Judyth" account.
> It's intended to be a list of the problems with her story.
>
> Please, anybody feel free to jump in and add items, or contest any.
>
> ...snip....
>
> IMPLAUSIBLE ELEMENTS IN HER STORY
>
> 1. The CIA hiring a girl right out of high school to be a cancer
> researcher.
>
> 2. David Ferrie as a cancer researcher.
>
> 3. Mary Sherman as a cancer researcher.
> (Sherman was a well-known orthopedic surgeon.)

==LIES SUCH AS THIS WERE USED TO DISCREDIT ME AND WERE SPREAD
THROUGHOUT THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY SO THAT GOOD MEN SUCH AS
JACK WHITE--AND OTHERS--MADE DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT WAS SPREAD
FROM PERSON TO PERSON....

THERE WERE MANY OTHER OUTRIGHT LIES AND DISTORTIONS.

NOTE: Articles proving Dr. Mary Sherrman was more than a mere orthopaedic
surgeon, as McAdams has claimed for years; maybe he changed it, but doubt it.

DR. MARY SHERMAN WAS MY FRIEND AND I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW SHE WAS
MURDERED THE DAY THE WARREN COMMISSION CAME TO GET TESTIMONIES
BECAUSE SHE WAS A GREAT RISK TO BLOWING THE CASE WIDE OPEN.

NOTE: LEE'S UNCLE KNEW THROUGH MARCELLO WHAT LEE WAS DOING WITH
DAVID FERRIE BUT COULD NOT SPEAK OF IT TO THE W.C. HE DIED OF SUDDEN
CANCER IN OCT. 1964. WE NOW KNOW THAT HE WAS HEALTHY IN JULY 1963,
DRIVING LEE AND FAMILY AND COUSINS TO SPRING HILL SEMINARY.

WE KNOW HE WAS HEALTHY WHEN HE WAS EXAMINED IN NEW ORLEANS BY THE
WARREN COMMISSION IN JULY, 1964.

HE GAVE A LENGTHY TESTIMONY AND INDICATED NO ILLNESS. LESS THAN TWO
AND A HALF MONTHS LATER, HE WAS DEAD.

--------------------------

This is what we are up against.

1) There is one truth.

2) Those who say I said something else can create all sorts of varying statements
they can claim I made. They will not have documentation...for the only documentation
they have is from, for example, McAdams, who uses corrupted sources (such as Barb,
\who will report a portion of her 'research' but only that portion she wants out there.)

Their work will be for nothing if they erase it or pretend an objection hasn't been answered.

Thank you with all my heart for what you are doing.

THIS IS FOR NOT ME, THIS IS FOR LEE OSWALD, ALL THE WITNESSES WHO HAVE SUFFERED
AND DIED ALREADY.
THIS IS FOR LEE'S FAMILY. THIS IS FOR THE TRUTH.

Jack White made a telling statement. He told Jim to ignore me so everybody can go back to
'research.'

This is not a business.
The reputation of Jack is at stake because he came against me.
Their egos are on the line.

This is why Lifton decided to do what he did--his book was no good anymore.
Note Lifton did not publish.
He became angry at me for its being cancelled--the publishers had seen my book.

You will hear that my first book was 'junk’--and it was. I was not about to have the book stolen.
I had already experienced having a false story circulated by my own agent.

That agent also tried to force '60 Minutes' to use his friend, Mr. Rosmarin, who had produced
for '60 Minutes' in the past. '60 Minutes' had assigned somebody else.
My agent insisted on a lot of money for Rosmarin instead or 'no deal.'

This--and writing 'Cancun' and removing all evidence from my original manuscript and padding
it with junk--was the last straw.

Oh, he also wanted 22 1/2% commission and eternal rights to my life story!

He was fired.

Then he sent around nasty emails to people saying I wanted money and that he no longer believed me!
That started the pain.

'Cancun' has followed ever since.

Note that the Mayaland hotel and Kanj-Kun village was explained to Barb several times before.
She chooses to cite 'Cancun' as an anachronism anyway.

-------------------------------

RE COLOR-CODED MICE, accused in 2007 in a newspaper article that a batch of released mice
--about 200 of them, actually, had been set loose in the science building (true)--and that therefore
I could not tell my mice apart....

But I had color-coded them 'just in case' anything happened, as a portion of the attached article
makes clear. It shows my mice were COLOR CODED for the various lung cancer and steroid and
hypothermia experiments. This Barb will not mention--just that the mice got loose and how could
my experiments be valid, etc...

[Image: 2vd47q8.jpg]

This was just one batch--99--sent from the bank--doctors donated more batches after this article
came out. I attach part of that article...I don't have the other part, which also mentions that I was
tested at reading 1,600 words a minute...McAdams & Co. called this article a 'blurb' and a 'puff piece.'
But the reporter was thorough and quoted me and my teachers correctly.

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

Some further preliminary reflections from Judtyh about "Harvey & Lee"

Title: The 'Harvey' question...Note the 'H' on the 'Catholic' Mexican Tourist isa application

[Image: 2iifsbp.jpg]

Note that I told you Lee hated his middle name 'Harvey" which Armstrong does not want to hear,
not one little bit.

Note that I told you that Lee avoided writing out "Harvey" whenever he could and just put down
an "H" and that if a letter that wasn't 'official'--such as that UT letter--had "Harvey' in the signature,
it was probably a fake.

This document, which you have already posted, shows Lee wrote only an "H" and then was required
to fill in his full middle name.

Would a guy always using the name "Harvey" do that?

I am sorry that I have information that goes against the idea of a Harvey and Lee as presented by
the Harvey and Lee book. I can account for a lot of it. If I had his book, I could account for more,
but it doesn't matter. Lee joked about his middle name when I first met him and told me he didn't
like the name "Harvey." That was enough for me to years later be able to report the fact that
Harvey and Lee, per se, is not the true situation.

I only ask that you look at his documents, and also realize the linguistics matter of "Lee" in Russian.
They avoid saying 'Lee.' That does not mean that Lee loved the name 'Harvey' and WAS "Harvey"
whenh some mean fellow was "Lee." However it is true Lee was impersonated and even welcomed it,
because it helped hide his own activities.

----------------------

This was the reason Jack White and DellaRosa kicked me off their forum and erased all the files I wrote
that pretty well prove there were impersonations, especially at the end, and even while Lee was in the
USSR--but Lee said those impersonations were so he could lead a 'normal life when he returned...

He had documents they have apparently destroyed that 'proved' Lee was in the States...This was to be
used to help him present as if he had not been in the Soviet Union upon his return.

I think same of them were income tax returns and we will never see them, I believe they will try to fake
anything along that line.

Because I can explain many so-called dual records--and Dr. John Williams has some of those details--plus,
as I said, Lee said his mother had a thyroid problem that was ageing her before her time...Anyway, it would
be great to compile files and evidence and statements proving Lee had cover built up for his return--if he
returned alive--from the USSR.

There was a shift in administration and Lee had to use a code word HEMINGWAY to get help to get home.
People think Hemingway killed himself, but the see-aye-eh did it...Hemingway lived in Cuba and was an
informant...I learned about Hemingway when Lee and I spent an afternoon at Hotel Montleone, where
many famous writers worked, such as Wm. Faulkner, and at that time he brought up Hemingway.

The problem is organizing the information. It has come out in dribs and drabs depending on what somebody
was interested in.

Please remember, Lee was impersonated, and near the end, to his great disadvantage. But most of the time,
it was for other reasons. For example, to hide his presence in New Orleans, somebody was paid to pose as
him in Texas while he was in Mexico City. this was for Lee's plausible denial of ever being in Mexico City if
something went wrong. He also had to purchase krebiozin (laetrile) which is illegal in the US to have a
plausible excuse for being in Mexico at all.

A lot of operatives had excuses or covers set up. They act as if Lee had none when they know better
(I mean, that the INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES know better)....

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile - James H. Fetzer - 08-03-2010

More from Judyth in response to some of Jack's earlier posts:

Jim...years ago on the DellaRosa Forum, JVB declined to answer any personal
questions about LHO...such as info about:

==I ATTEST THAT I NEVER DECLINED TO ANSWER ANYTHING. I WAS BEING
TREATED ABUSIVELY AND THEY WERE SNEERING WHEN THEY ASKED THESE
QUESTIONS. AFTER LENGTHY REPLIES, DELLA ROSA ERASED EVERY SINGLE
ANSWER.

ANYONE WHO HAS EVER CORRESPONDED WITH ME KNOWS I WORK HARD TO
REPLY TO EVERY QUESTION AND AVOID NONE OF THEM.

I DID RECEIVE A SERIES OF PHOTOS AND WAS ASKED 'WHICH ONE WAS LEE
AND WHICH ONE WAS HARVEY?' I REFUSED TO ANSWER TO ALL PHOTOS
BECAUSE THIS FALLACY WOULD 'FORCE' ME TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT A TRUE
'LEE AND HARVEY' ISSUE EXISTED. I DID NOT WISH TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT
WHEN I SAW THAT SOME PHOTOS HAD BEEN ALTERED THAT HAD ACTUALLY
BEEN LEE, AND WERE NOW BEING CALLED 'LEE' WHILE THE LEE I KNEW WAS
BEING CALLED 'HARVEY.'

JACK WHITE HAS INVESTED YEARS, BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, IN
ARMSTRONG'S BOOK, AND I FINALLY UNDERSTAND WHY HE IS SO UPSET.

WHEN RESEARCHERS PLACE THEIR INVESTMENT IN A BOOK AHEAD OF DESIRING
THE TRUTH, JUST BECAUSE THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME ON IT, I MUST POINT THAT
OUT AS A FOUNT OF POSSIBLE PREJUDICE, AND VERY UNDERSTANDABLE.

ASK JACK WHITE WHERE ARE THE MANY, MANY REPLIES I WROTE TO THAT FORUM.
IT WAS BECAUSE OF VERBAL AND EMOTIONAL ABUSE THAT I LEFT THAT FORUM
AND ASKED JOHN SIMKIN IF HE WOULD CONSIDER STARTING A JFK FORUM AFTER
WE BEGAN DISCUSSING HAVING SOME PLACE TO DISCUSS SUCH QUESTIONS WITHOUT
BEING ABUSED.

EVENTUALLY I WAS ALSO ABUSED ON THE EDUCATION FORUM AND LEFT BECAUSE I
WAS NOT PROTECTED, AS I HAD BEEN PROMISED, FROM INSULTS. I DID SAVE
INSULTING POSTS FROM BOTH FORUMS.

BY THE WAY, I HAVE WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY AND ALSO TESTIFIED ON FILM AS TO THE
ROLES PLAYED BY EACH PERSON MENTIONED BELOW.

Marina
Robert
Marguerite
John Pic
Fort Worth
Dallas
Russia
How he learned to speak Russian
zigers
Schooling
LHO time in service and where
His daughter
Whether he had a missing tooth
Whether he was circumcised..

I have explained that this was a trick question that involved Debra Conway
and my attempt to protect her reputation...This tells me clearly that Jack
White was prepped by Conway to ask this question, as nobody ever asked
it except Robert Chapman, who I thought at the time was trying to harm
Conway. I was trying to protect Conway and later gave a full answer to this
matter, explaining the circumstances.

However, it was a trap set by Conway.

I now know that Jack White was influenced by Debra Conway at that time,
whose many lies about me, and her blocking witness films, etc. in fact are
well known to my long-time research associates.

Whether she knew Marina was pregnant

Perhaps Lee was reluctant to discuss personal matters with her.

===I REPEAT: I DID ANSWER MANY OF THESE QUESTIONS. THEY WERE
ERASED BY DELLAROSA. THEN I LEFT THE FORUM. YEARS LATER, I WROTE TO
THE FORUM AND SAID I HAD LEARNED MORE ABOUT THE 'LEE AND HARVEY'
QUESTION AND PERHAPS THERE HAD BEEN A MODICUM OF MISUNDERSTANDING.

AT THAT TIME MR. DELLAROSA AGAIN CONDEMNED ME, AND JACK WHITE DID,
TOO. THAT IS WHEN SOMEBODY THERE SENT THAT PRIVATE LETTER TO MCADAMS,
WHO POSTED IT, EVEN THOUGH THE FORUM IS SUPPOSED TO BE PROTECTED FROM
SUCH STEALINGS. DR. FETZER SAW WHAT HAPPENED AND SENT HIS APOLOGIES.
THAT IS HOW WE BEGAN CORRESPONDING.===

Jack

[quote name='Jack White' post='186138' date='Mar 8 2010, 07:39 PM']
I had ZERO to do with JVB being removed from the DellaRosa forum. Rich removed
her for two reasons I remember...telling him lies which he discovered and for
abusive attacks on other members. I did nothing EXCEPT ASK QUESTIONS about
some of the strange claims.

I had done extensive studies about the biomedical weapons manufactured by CIA
scientists at Ft. Detrick, Md. Therefore I found it extremely strange that the CIA would
need help CREATING A CANCER VIRUS TO KILL CASTRO from a high school girl, a
disgraced and strange former airline pilot with Mafia ties, a respected surgeon
like Mary Sherman...and a CIA asset who was currently being set up to be the patsy
in an CIA assassination plot (who had become expendable because his usefulness as
a CIA false defector had expired).

That has never passed the "swallow" test. For those who can swallow it, fine. I can't.

Jack[/quote]