Is there a UK "deep state"? - Printable Version +- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora) +-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: Political, Governmental, and Economic Systems and Strategies (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-33.html) +--- Thread: Is there a UK "deep state"? (/thread-4205.html) |
Is there a UK "deep state"? - Peter Presland - 28-07-2010 That's the title of a piece by Anthony Barnett on OpenDemocracy a couple of days ago: Quote:Yesterday's Observer ran an important scoop, an account by Carne Ross who was our expert on Iraq at the UN from 1997 to 2002, about what happened when he had to give evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry. Overall, it seems clear now that after Blair took his early decision to back Bush's storm to war at the start of 2002, all parts of the permanent apparatus in Britain collaborated with rather than defied his recklessness. I have no doubt that a big factor in this is a whole range of personal, corporate and departmental interests in blindingly supporting the United States military-security machine whatever it does. As a result, while those like Manningham-Buller who took a different view were sidelined, no alternative strategy was seriously considered or researched. In Carne Ross's words,I posted a comment under my own name. There are a few more comments too and I can't believe the naivity of most of them. From contributors to a site whose readership is supposed to be politically sophisticated too. On the evidence available in those comments, there is quite simply no realistic hope of waking people up to the fact that they really are SHEEPLE. My comment with a link seems to have prompted a dozen downloads of that Ola Tunander deep state article from wikispooks though so that's something. A few more comments wouldn't go amiss if anyone feels inclined. Is there a UK "deep state"? - Paul Rigby - 28-07-2010 In today's Guardian, the deep state glimpsed and, for once, acknowledged: Quote:I cannot avoid the conclusion that, just as the Pashtun are said to be "hardwired to fight", so now are certain western regimes. War is about sating the military-security-industrial complex, a lobby so potent that, long after the cold war ended, it can induce democratic leaders to expend quantities of blood and money on such specious pretexts as suppressing dictators in one country and terror in another. Simon Jenkins http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jul/27/folly-war-wikileaks-afghanistan Is there a UK "deep state"? - Jan Klimkowski - 28-07-2010 Peter - thanks for that. Some risible comments on that thread. Carne Ross is behaving courageously, but I think he points the finger in the wrong direction when he writes: Quote:I (Carne Ross) testified last week to the Chilcot inquiry. My experience demonstrates an emerging and dangerous problem with the process. This is not so much a problem with Sir John Chilcot and his panel, but rather with the government bureaucracy – Britain's own "deep state" – that is covering up its mistakes and denying access to critical documents. I do not believe that the core problem is "government bureaucracy". Rather it is the deep political forces which operate to shape and manipulate geopolitical events, and the public record of such events. "Government bureaucracy" is a tool occasionally used by these deep political forces. Carne Ross is confused when he equates this "government bureaucracy" with the "deep state". Is there a UK "deep state"? - Peter Presland - 28-07-2010 Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Peter - thanks for that. I agree Jan. It is sooo hard for former high-ranking FCO people to see the wood for the trees. Craig Murray is another example. He paid a high price for a principled stand against complicity in pure evil, but he needs to earn again and he's tasted the perquisites of rank in the service of the State - peremptory cashiering or reduction to the ranks is so very hard to take. His solution is to cultivate a dissident public image but he tiptoes around issues which risk marking him as something a little more dangerous than that of the token in-house awkward sod - or should that be Court Jester? He just knows in his gut that there are boundaries he must respect and so talks about fixing a system which is frankly beyond fixing. They cannot seem to see that it is the State itself - in service to interests totally unconnected (or rather antagonistic) to the real interests of the mass of the population - that is rotten to the core. Is there a UK "deep state"? - Danny Jarman - 31-07-2010 Thanks for the link to the deep state article Peter, it's great. Is there a UK "deep state"? - Peter Presland - 31-07-2010 Danny Jarman Wrote:Thanks for the link to the deep state article Peter, it's great. It's on DPF too. Peter Lemkin introduced DPF to Ola Tunander about a year ago and I've been an avid fan of his ever since. I just dug out another of his 'hard to find' papers and put it up on WikiSpooks. It was presented to the 5th Pan-European International Relations Conference at The Hague in 2004 and, like the other, is well worth studying. It's probably a bit long to post here in full but there is a pdf version too which someone may care to upload. |