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+--- Thread: Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? (/thread-5051.html)
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Jim Hargrove - 14-07-2015
To Tom Scully....
I've made an effort to reply to your question about whether SH Landesberg actually showed up at the radio station. (Answer: I think he did, but I can't answer yet your demand for FBI proof. I have offered a citation from a PhD..) Will you please, FINALLY, respond to this:
The questions we keep posting about the FBI's handling of the Landesberg case do not arise because there are FBI reports that SEEM to back the official story the FBI put forward. OF COURSE THERE ARE! John refers directly to them in his article and makes them available to all at the John Armstrong Collection at Baylor University. John is charging yet another FBI cover-up in this case, one of many accepted by an enormous number of JFK researchers.
Here are some of John's reasons (Tom--I'm leaving out the issue of whether SH Landesberg and the talk radio host actually met in person since so far you have only responded to that question):
1. A lot of evidence appears to be missing from this case. Where is an FBI report, or any evidence at all, showing agents actually bothered to ask Al Fowler to identify L'eandes/SR Landesberg (the actor), or interview ANY of the Village Voice reporters who met L'eandes (the actor), or speak to any of the nine different people identified, with addresses for each, by Rizutto/SH Landesberg (the student), who Rizutto said knew L'eandes (the actor), with the exception of the actor's former roommate, Michael Dunn?
2. There are credible reports indicating different addresses for the two different Landesbergs. L'eandes/SR Landesberg (the future actor) on 8th St. or McDougal St. and Landes/SH Landesberg, the student, who lived at 66 W. 10th St.Two NY newspapers, according to H&L critics, are simply incapable of getting NYC addresses straight.
3. When the FBI attempted to locate a man named "Regan" who Rizzuto/Landesberg (the student) said paid L'eander (the actor), they bothered to travel all the way to the Roosevelt Hotel in New Orleans, forgetting to visit the Roosevelt Hotel in New York, where Rizzuto said Regan lived. This, we're told, is a perfectly understandable mistake.
4. Rizzuto/Landesberg (the student) told the FBI that Oswald, L'eandes and a man named Earl Perry worked together in New York City in 1961-62 (when Harvey Oswald was in Russia). Perry was from El Paso, Texas and was stationed at Barstow, CA. SA J. Richard Nichols contacted Major Robert C. Whitebread of the USMC in an attempt to locate Earl Perry, who knew L'eandes (the actor) and Oswald. Nichols learned that the only Earl Perry on active duty was assigned to the Marine Supply Center in Barstow, CA., and was from El Paso, TX. But on Nov 26, instead of requesting the military file for Earl Eugene Perry (El Paso, TX), SA Leonard Lewis obtained the file for Earl Sheldon Perry from the Military Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. Earl Sheldon Perry was from Casper, Wyoming, joined the US Army in 1954, and was discharged in 1956. The FBI avoided contacting Earl Eugene Perry from El Paso.
5. Many people seem totally unconcerned that all paper court records and backup microfilm records for the arrest and incarceration of Stephen Harris Landesberg (the student) have disappeared. Researchers might want to contact the US District Court House for the Southern District of NY at 40 Foley Square in NYC, to see if the records have reappeard, but I won't hold my breath.
One more time....
WHY DOES THE FBI INTERVIEW THE WRONG EARL PERRY, THE MOST CRITICAL CO-WITNESS IN THE WHOLE LANDESBERG AFFAIR? SURE LOOKS LIKE YET ANOTHER FBI COVER-UP!
WHY DOES THE FBI GO TO THE WRONG ROOSEVELT HOTEL, MORE THAN A THOUSAND MILES FROM THE CORRECT ROOSEVELT HOTEL IN NEW YORK CITY, TO LOOK FOR CLUES ABOUT THE MAN WHO ALLEGEDLY PAID SR LANDESBERG! HOW CAN YOU EXPLAIN SUCH UTTER INCOMPETENCY?
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Tom Scully - 14-07-2015
Mr. Hargrove, I do not plan to post again about the SH Landesberg controversy, except perhaps on the narrow area
of medical disorder symptoms. Replying to your concerns about the FBI "handling" of the case, I interpret it in a broad angle about like this. It is 29 November, six days after the first FBI encounter with Rizutto, and "he" cannot be found for the purpose of follow up questioning. I have no way of knowing how high of a priority investigating Rizzuto further, was, or of the weight of the details he had provided on 23 November, (after LHO's death) as the days went by. I take into account that nothing could be verified, none of the names provided by Rizutto were found to exist..... no military service records, passport records, responses from post offices, including in Wiggins, MS, and on the 24th Ruby had murdered LHO.
By the 29th, there is support for, and I already posted a source describing it, that field agents had been working long hours, including through the weekend of the 23rd and 24th. I produced an FBI document reporting that both WMCA news directer Roger Turner and radio personality Barry Gray had been shown, on the 29th, a photo of L'eandes. We know what the FBI reported their mutual reaction to the photo was, with regard to Rizzuto.
Everything is consistent from the morning of Nov. 23, on, considering what the FBI reports contain. Rizzuto details names, places, relationships, his own and involving LHO. Nothing pans out, and the USMC records sources are reported to have been less than helpful in response to both the names Perry and Felde. I've recounted the lack of ANY verifying details coming in that could be built on. The photo Identification reported coming from Turner and Gray on the 29th surely contributed to a slowdown, but the investigation continued with some, but waning intensity, understandable with Rizzuto unaccounted for and again, no actionable verifying input to any inquiry stemming from Rizzuto's facts.
On the 29th, the case is headed understandably for criminal investigation of Rizzuto, not surprising after the photo ID's reportedly from Turner and Gray.
On the 5th of December, the FBI has recently discharged USMC private Stephen Harris Landes and his medical record, and a reported confession from he that he also was the origin of the L'eandes and the Rizzuto personalities.
So, everything seems consistent, criticize it at will, and if it amounts to FBI reports full of serial fakery, they did a passable job of having it seem consistent, justified, sequential steps, at least to me.
So here is the detailed Landes USMC medical record.: http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10535&search=landes#relPageId=1&tab=page
I've spent some time matching the symptoms, although Landes's mother downplayed the stuttering, as if it her son had outgrown that symptom.
So I do not have to reply later, I know.....it's only a movie.:
Quote:Primal Fear (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primal_Fear_(film)
When this incident is over, Aaron's personality re-emerges and appears to have ... that he suffers from multiple personality disorder caused by years of abuse at ... No longer stuttering, he brags about having murdered Archbishop Rushman for ...
Quote:Billy Milligan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Milligan
Wikipedia
William Stanley Milligan (February 14, 1955 December 12, 2014), known as Billy .... as Yugoslavian, has a Slavic accent and can write and speak in Serbian.
30 years later, multiple-personality case still fascinates | The ...
www.dispatch.com/.../BILLY.ART_ART_10-28-...
The Columbus Dispatch
Oct 28, 2007 - No one seems to know Billy Milligan these days, not that anyone ever ... the rapist had a German accent, though Milligan was born in Florida ...
Quote:
- IsItBullshit: Dissociative Identity Disorder : IsItBullshit - Reddit
www.reddit.com/r/.../isitbullshit_dissociative_identity_disorder/
Oct 31, 2014 - Also, the "host" personality has a weird fake stutter to it. ... but based on what i know about it they could be just faking for some reason. a lot of ...
- IAMA guy with a stutter, and willing to discuss and ... - Reddit
www.reddit.com/.../iama_guy_with_a_stutter_and_willing_to_disc...
Aug 14, 2011 - I am twenty and have had a stutter since I could speak. ... I also don't stutter while singing or speaking in a weird fake voice. Edit #1: Don't ...
Fascinating case, if this is what it is all about. Very difficult to diagnose dissociative identity disorder, even today, if Landes(berg) was misdiagnosed in 1960-61.
I hope some of my contribution in this controversy is considered helpful to you at some point. In the meantime,
consider that I take the details and you disagree with my giving what the government investigators present, a place at the table until I can determine otherwise, consider that I do deliver results that stand up to loud protests, on several occasions. Also, you cannot type me. I am only predictable in that I try not to work against myself, my research efforts. I've proven that Priscilla took Marina to Sedona, AZ in late '64, picked up in Dallas and driven to AZ by a friend (mistaken in AZ, for the two ladys' bodyguard, Jerre Hasty aka Hastings was the spouse of Clark McAdams Clifford's aunt, Marguerite Bowman McAdams) of Priscilla's cousin, David Coit Davenport, described by Sam Ballen in his book as a "CIA man." Davenport shielded Marina and Priscilla from inquiring news media, at his Santa Fe home during the weeks before and after the WCR release was anticipated.
.: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/author-85-knew-jfk-killer-oswald-article-1.1525293 :
![[Image: president-assassin.jpg]](http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1525290.1385076841%21/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/president-assassin.jpg)
Marina, Jerome "Jerre" Allen Hasty aka Hastings, uncle by marriage of Clark M. Clifford, and Priscilla Mary Post Johnson.....
Quote:Without Reservations: From Harlem to the End of the Santa ...
https://www.google.c...chanted&tbm=bks
Samuel B. Ballen - 2001 - ‎Snippet view
From Harlem to the End of the Santa Fe Trail Samuel B. Ballen. Lilienthal (no ... David Davenport was a former CIA man who had become disenchanted and was now semi-retired to his youthful locus of Santa Fe. He had remarried the ...
(page 10)
"...His career encompassed a number of fields, from intelligence to law to.....
David Davenport married the daughter of the first OSS commander of the London post, promoted on orders from Col. Ellery C. Huntington :
MISS EL BREWER WED IN ELMSFORD; She Is Attended by Seven...
‎
New York Times - Dec 20, 1942
19 -- The marriage of Miss Effie Leighton Brewer, daughter of Major George Emerson Brewer, US.., and IVLrs. Brewer of this place to David Coit Davenport, son of Mrs. 1VfcHarg Davenport of Santa Fe, 1. ... of Hastings Owing to the absence of her father, who is serving overseas, the bride was and Eunice Johnson of Mill Neck, LI, a cousin of the bridegroom.
7/T66 Doo 1546, con't. Interviews with Marina, pp. 229-49, inc. 9/8 [B]...[/B]
jfk.hood.edu/Collection/.../N%20Disk/.../Item%2018.pdf
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
She and Priscilla Johnson stayed at Santa Fe with a relative of. Miss Johnsons named Davenport and Declan Ford advised that anyone wantingnto speak
"Davenport" was the son-in-law of George E. Brewer, Jr. Brewer was appointed interim chief of OSS Europe by the Lt. Col. assigned by Bill Donovan to go to London in early 1943 to establish coordinationwith the British SOE:
Sisterhood of Spies - The New York Times
www.nytimes.com/books/first/m/mcintosh-sisterhood.html
When he applied for a job in January 1942, forty-eight-year old Ellery C. Huntington Jr. hoped for an overseas assignment, possibly behind enemy lines.
From 1933, Huntington, Jr. was a co-trustee of Equity Corp. with David Milton. Huntington, Jr. retired as Equity Corp. Chairman in 1958. (V.P. was Walter Dornberger.....Bell Helicopter division of Equity Corp.)
Plaintiff suing Hasty and Davenport in 1965 was presidential advisor Clark Clifford's first cousin :
Quote:http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/35602601/
... the plaintiff of buing mentally ill and recom mended that judicial proceedings ... pick Aliss McAdams further states in her complaint she up ran into the rear of.....
continued here:
and she was transported to the State Hospital at Las Vegas, where she was incarcerated from July 28, 1965 to August 15, 1965.
The Plaintiff states in her complaint that Dr. Bram-antl issued a false and malicious medical report "ac-cusing the plaintiff of being mentally ill," and recommended that "judicial proceedings be instituted against the plaintiff.
plaintiff Further the complaint states was held incommunicado five days was refused a lawyer which she had requested and that medication was forced on her against her will Leon the complaint says was induced by the other and conspired with them to trick the plaintiff into signing a voluntary commitment paper on Aug 12 A hearing was held before Judge James M Scar borough says without her knowledge or presence When she left hospital Aug 15 the release form stated die h been admitted lo the hospital on July 28 as n patient The woman stated in her complaint was not able to obtain legal counsel dial certain records and dockets wort missing thai James E Thomson gave her false and misleading information on the recommendation of Norman M assistant district attorney Finally when plaintiff went to the Grand Jury.....
Quote
the case against congress - Page 309
https://www.google.c... uncle.&tbm=bks
jack anderson - 1968 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
... Senator Estes Kefauver produced the occasion for another of Clifford's rare public appearances for a client. It was a duty that Clifford could not shirk his client, the William Douglas McAdams drug advertising firm, was founded by his uncle.
In 1964, and possibly as far back as in the 1940's, Jerre Hastings/ Hasty
was the second husband of Clark Clifford's aunt, Marguerite Bowman McAdams
of Winnetka, IL.
1940 U.S. Census snippet of a household in New Trier (Winnetka)Illinois:
Obituary 1 -- No Title
Chicago Tribune - Aug 16, 1954
RIES William Douglas McAdims Services for William Doug- las McAdams, 67, of 734 Lin- coln av., Wlnnetka, who died Saturday in his home, will be held at 10 am Wednesday in the Congregational churc4, Winnetka. He had been a Winnetka resident for forty years and also maintained a home ..Mr. McAdams leaves his wife, Marguerite Bowman McAdams; a son, William D. ... three daughters, Joan A. McAdams, Mrs. IVarilyn Barton and Mrs. Marguerite Borregaard...
1966, Hasty legally changes his name to Hastings and begins a new life.:
His new brother-in-law, husband of his new wife's sister:
The point is that before Jerome Hastings married the former wife of David H. Blair, Jr. in 1967, David C. Davenport knew Blair and Terry Votichenko because they were married to the Tuttle sisters who were related to Davenport.
Princeton Alumni Weekly - Volume 75 - Page 63
books.google.com/books?id=JRVbAAAAYAAJ
1974 - Full view - More editions
... with brisk despatches of both offensive and defensive import. On the ground at New Year's 1944 the German Army was still a fire-breathing and only marginally wounded dragon, while Ultra's military detachment was increasingly overtaxed. Here the American recruits were winnowed out over several months of on-the-job schooling until two new senior advisers were chosen, David H. Blair '40 and Curt A. Zimansky "37 (both Lt.-Capt. Infantry). To them and their six British colleagues was entrusted the tensest and most dramatic of enemy communications: the myriad army orders, situation estimates, pending panzer attacks, requests (usually followed by refusals) for retreat authorization, disastrous tank and gun loss reports, promises of reenforcement divisions and their arrival schedules. The messages behind virtually every major occurrence of the war poured The messages behind virtually every major occurrence of the war poured in an endless stream across their desk, until the strangely quiet morning of May 7, 1945, when the last Enigmas in Bohemia went off the air, and the clattering deciphering machines across the hallway at Bletchley followed suit. ... Princeton Alumni Weekly - Volume 75 - Page 64
...Blair retumed to Princeton to pursue a Ph.D. in history, but stopped short in favor of writing on his own. Also caught up as a reservist in the Korean War, he headed the Section of Army Intelligence concerned with the pseudopolice armed forces of the German Democratic Republic at the iciest phase of the Cold War. Back at Princeton again, ....
Princeton Alumni Weekly - Volume 70 - Page 15 - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?id=HxlbAAAAYAAJ
1969
.... the son of Adelaide Cannon and David Hunt Blair, Commissioner of Internal ... David served in Anny Intelligence in both the 2nd World War and the Korean War.
Taras Alexander "Terry" Votichenko Obituary: View [B]... - Legacy.com[/B]
http://www.legacy.co...x?pid=147968305
Votichenko, Taras "Terry" Alexander 94, of Paradise Valley passed away on January 16, ... Eisenhower to set up the US military government in newly liberated France. ... After the war, he worked for the OSS as head of the North Africa division.
.....to Tempe, Arizona to teach Philosophy and Psychology at AZ State University.
Princeton Alumni Weekly: Taras A. Votichenko
paw.princeton.edu › PAW Home › Memorials
Apr 27, 2011 Taras A. Votichenko '40 ... Eisenhower to set up the U.S. military government in liberated ... After the war, he headed the OSS in North Africa.
http://www.nytimes.c...-author-71.html
Fredrika Blair-Hastings, Author, 71
Published: July 06, 1990
Fredrika Blair-Hastings, author of a 1986 biography of the dancer Isadora Duncan, died on July 1. She
was 71 years old and lived in Carmel, Calif.
The cause of death was cancer, a family friend, Jeremiah Newton, said.
Born in New York City, Mrs. Blair-Hastings was a graduate of Sarah Lawrence College in Bronxville. She
began work on the Duncan biography, titled ''Isadora, Portrait of the Artist as a Woman,'' in the
1950's. During the next decade she produced a dance documentary starring Anna Duncan, Julia Levien and
Hortense Kooluris, all exponents of Duncan dance.
Mrs. Blair-Hastings is survived by her husband, Jerome Hastings, and a sister, Helen Votichenko, of
Scotsdale, Ariz.
Who's who in Entertainment - Volume 1 - Page 59
Who's who in Entertainment - Volume 1 - Page 59
books.google.com/books?id=58BkAAAAMAAJ
1989 - Snippet view - More editions
...........
91602 BLAIR, FREDRIKA TUTTLE HASTINGS, writer: b. Bklyn.. June 22. 1917: d. Frank Wright and Fredericka
Bremer (Staats) Tutile; m. David Hunt Blair Jr.. June 21, 1941 (div. June 1947); m. Jerome Allen
Hastings. BA. Sarah Lawrence Coll., 1939. Ind. writer NYC, 1953 . Author: Isadora: Portrait of the
Artist As a Woman, 1985, preface to The Wanderer by Alain Foumier. 1953; contbr. numerous articles to
mags., newspapers. Vol. tchr. English Com. for Refugee Edn.. NYC. 1941-42: vol. dieticians aide
Halloran Hosp.. SI., NY., 1943-44: vol. tchrs. aide Pub. Sch. 154, NYC. 1963-64. Mem. Authors Guild.
Soc. of of Dance History Scholars. Office: care Curtis Brown Ltd 10 Astor PI New York NY 10003
![[Image: PriscillaDavenportHastyLawsuit1967_1of2.jpg]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QP7Y7FFiUSU/UXDF-gVFmBI/AAAAAAAAA8M/G8lNTcIcos4/s720/PriscillaDavenportHastyLawsuit1967_1of2.jpg)
![[Image: PriscillaHastyMcAdams1940CensusNewTrierILL.jpg]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tXbbdVGZ0gk/UYOxgcMPHSI/AAAAAAAABB8/3vCZ7manKpc/s1280/PriscillaHastyMcAdams1940CensusNewTrierILL.jpg)
You do not know me, but I am open to results oriented research. I hope you find this example, thought provoking.
I cannot dismiss that Priscilla and her first cousin, Davenport may have been acting at the direction of the permanent government, of which I am convinced Clifford was a member. His uncle employed James Phelan at the Alton Telegraph during Phelan's first decade in the newspaper business. Who can forget this?:
Who ya gonna call, to while away the hours on the days after, on the first full day of your sudden ascension to POTUS?
Quote:http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/cclifford.htm
...Johnson was hardly in office 24 hours when he called for Clifford. Faced with the sudden and enormous task of running the country after Kennedy's assassination, Johnson talked with Clifford for two hours, then three, then four. It was late in the evening, Clifford remembered, when Lady Bird Johnson entered the Oval Office and reminded her husband, "Just because you're president now doesn't mean you don't have to eat dinner." ...
Priscilla's father died suddenly in 1969. The man who reported him missing to police was a cousin of Allen Dulles.:
https://archive.is/o/esTuB/http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95330&relPageId=42
http://archive.is/esTuB
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Albert Doyle - 14-07-2015
Tom Scully Wrote:Cite your source, back your claim. Please avoid risking the hypocrisy of posting a source footnoted by an FBI report.
You're not answering the point Scully. Therefore you're not arguing honestly. You haven't confronted the basic point that the evidence clearly shows FBI accepted L'eandes was a provocateur at political rallies. So even if hypothetically Rizzuto was L'eandes (which he clearly wasn't) FBI had no excuse for not following-through to see if this provocateur was sponsored. This is yet another instance of FBI violating its normal rules of investigation. The reason Hargrove keeps repeating that same post is because you repeatedly ignore it and don't answer the finer points of the arguments. You're doing that again here. You are trying to get too much out of the minor technicality of not quoting FBI reports exactly perfectly, but, as the arguments you continue to not answer show, it doesn't make any difference and there's incriminating evidence out there to show that SR Landesberg was L'eandes and FBI covered it up. Your excuses don't answer, once FBI realized it went to the wrong hotel, why they didn't follow up by going to the correct one and looking for L'eandes' potential sponsor? All the claims of mental illness and confessions etc don't excuse FBI for not doing this basic follow-through. It's clear the reason they didn't is because they were avoiding exposing a live op and clan of US intel domestic spies. Their own, in other words.
I see you are indirectly registering the problem with the stuttering. However you deal with it by resourcing the good doctor Parker who is now an expert conspiracy research psychologist who diagnoses Aspergers and now multi-personality disorder in order to create crank explanations for his ham-handed theories. You can't get around SH Landesberg's stuttering problem. It is a major deal-breaker for the claim that the smooth and personable L'eandes was the same person who pulled off very good performances in interviews and provocateur work. Our camp has a very simple KISS solution for this conflict - SR Landesberg was L'eandes. Your camp brings in the famed crank psychologist Dr Greg Parker who gets around this obvious problem by diagnosing a severe case of multi-personality disorder. This would have to be a severe case in order to get around such a pronounced speech defect condition. If you study the same data dump links you provide for multi-personality disorder you'll see that such a serious case of multi-personality disorder would be accompanied by observable symptoms and noticed acts of severe personality changes in normal life. None of which SH Landesberg was ever witnessed doing. You H&L deniers always make the mistake of getting carried away with your excuse-making. Knowing this stuttering problem seriously undermines your theory you rush to grab any excuse you can without thinking. For if you had given this better thought you would realize that no serious multi-personality case to the degree you are claiming here could possibly go on to have a successful career and normal life as a business person. Like Ralph Yates there's a strange relationship between persons becoming serious threats to exposing FBI corruption and sudden flare-ups of serious mental illness that just so happens to require FBI intervention. Because these bogus explanations are referenced through accessed files and sources does not make them any less bogus or easily refutable. Nor does it make them any less deserving of a serious answer that never seems to come in any of Scully's Lone Nut-type efforts.
I have yet to see Scully ever reply to the fact that SR Landesberg is more than associated with practicing a southern accent throughout his life and career. Yet despite this obvious association the H&L attackers are asking us to ignore it and accept that SH Landesberg, with his social awkwardness and serious speech defect, who was never documented speaking in a southern accent, is our man and to ignore everything else - because FBI says so. Never once does Scully ever admit that the information in the FBI files is written in such a way as to incriminate SH Landesberg and disappear the provocateur who worked with Oswald, SR Landesberg.
God help anyone who defends FBI in the Kennedy Assassination.
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Dawn Meredith - 14-07-2015
Back to the subject at hand: Two LHOs. From the blog of George Bailey:
When I first started researching the Oswald-as-double I considered it to be the farthest out I was willing to go in the annuals of the Kennedy assassination. The are wilder theories out there such as Oswald being an MK-ULTRA mind control assassin. (Hmm...would a lone nut gunman also apply here?) The idea of multiple assassins resembling each other running loose remains a troubling issue and adds a strange aura to the tragic event. It is one area that only a hand full of JKF researchers wish to examine as it is viewed as a far-out topic, one worthy of a Moulder and Sculley investigation in the the X-Files.
However, one surprising fact is the actual genesis of Lee H. Oswald as a doppelganger starts out in the highest level of government and in the upper echelon of Federal criminal investigation. Namely, J. Edgar Hoover, Director of the FBI. It was Hoover, in his 1960 memo to the Office of Security, Department of State, that basically sent a warning that there existed a "possibility" that the ex-marine defector to the Soviet Union was being impersonated and someone was using his birth certificate to do so. He doesn't state his evidence for this nor add any additional details in the memo. In those days, Hoover's word was etched in stone. Later, in 1961, a State Dept. official will send a memo to another, warning that the next time Lee Oswald is issued a passport, make sure he gets it personally; that way the right Oswald gets the right passport as it was suspected he was being impersonated. Again, no qualifiers for this. Apparently, it was something that was known and treated with great seriousness, at this level. The word at this point, is making the rounds.
By the June of 1962 Lee Oswald and family are back in the United States. When he returns back to Dallas as his ill-fated trip to Mexico City (known as Oswald's Magical Mystery Tour) in the September of 1963 the CIA is recording all telephonic traffic in and out of the Russian and Cuban embassies. CIA station chief Winston Scott believed that Oswald being impersonated after examining the tapes and kept a back-up copy in his private safe. Hoover had his agents, seven of them, review the tapes and they determined the man speaking on the telephone calls is not Oswald. This man is speaking broken Russian to the Russians, and speaking excellent Spanish to the Cubans. A total reversal of Oswald's known language skills. Shortly after the assassination, Hoover related this information to Lyndon Johnson. The new President in turn, used this for the final arm twisting of Earl Warren to get him to serve on the Commission.
So while one might consider the doppelganger or impersonator to be a nutty idea, it's apparently not considered that at all by various authorities within the government. Far from being fringe subject matter, it is accepted as fact in these inner circles. Oswald is being impersonated but by whom is not known, at least by Hoover. Or maybe Hoover did know, just kept it to himself. Sometimes methods and practices have to be concealed so those being surveilled do not become aware of the operations directed against them. Never the less, it was important enough for Hoover to leave a paper trail on this issue warning other departments as did others in the bureaucracy. The President himself knew. Earl Warren knew and made sure it was not a topic that would be investigated later.
Lee Oswald now becomes a far more important figure that first told. After all, who wants to impersonate a nobody?
The Lone Senator And The Lone Gunman
The Senator from Georgia, Richard Russell was the odd man out on the Warren Commission. He has the distinction of being the member with the fewest amount of appearances at Commission meetings. Many people have taken him to task for this but the fact of matter was, he discovered early on that this was not going to be an outfit that was going to get to the bottom of the Kennedy assassination. He knew it was going to be "investigation theater" from there on after reading the initial, and wholly inadequate, FBI report and seeing how Earl Warren was going to conduct the whole affair. He was so disgusted with the proceedings he wrote a letter of resignation, dated February 24, 1964, but never forwarded it to President Johnson.
Senator Russell's most important act being on the Commission was not what he did there, which was not much, but in leading his own personal inquiry into what happened. He enlisted the expertise of Colonel Philip Corso, an expert in military intelligence to research the issue. (Those of you familiar with a certain late night radio talk program that deals in the paranormal and especially UFOs will be familiar with the name of Philip Corso!) He uncovered two things; one, that there were two different birth certificates for Lee Harvey Oswald and they had both been used by two different people. Secondly, there were two different passports issued to a Lee Harvey Oswald and both had been used by two different people.
Colonel Corso's final conclusion was there was a conspiracy, the plot leading to directly to Lyndon Johnson, allied with rogue elements of the CIA and the anti-Castro Cubans. Remember, this is 1964; it's startling how this idea, with this limited amount of inquiry except by one man, had been fully realized at this early date. Unfortunately, there is only circumstantial evidence for many of these conclusions but many other researchers have since come to this idea of rouge government agents in a plot to kill Kennedy, especially the CIA with Kennedy vowing to scatter them to the winds. The Cubans could be counted on as well, still smarting over Kennedy not committing air support for the Bay of Pigs invasion. Never the less, Senator Russell agreed with Corso's conclusion knowing he could never convince the other members of the Commission for this scenario. His hunch that things were fishy here with the official story and there was more to it, proved out. Years later, he would become one of the Commission's biggest critics along with fellow Warren Commission member Hale Bogs.
The Final Phase
As we have seen, the idea of Lee Oswald having a double comes not from conspiracy theorists, or "armchair investigators" as Gerald Ford put it, but from government insiders at the FBI, CIA, Department of State, and so on. And not only Federal but State documents also confirm this. Such as a form from the Texas Employment Commission which documents a series of aptitude tests Lee Oswald completed that starts in April of 1962. As stated earlier, he and his wife and daughter did not return to the United States till June of 1962. In April, he is known to still be in Russia working at the radio factory in Minsk. A lot of documents are missing but every so often a gem like that appears to add new dimensions to the Kennedy assassination and further our knowledge on Oswald and whoever he was.
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Jim Hargrove - 16-07-2015
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Albert Doyle - 16-07-2015
It makes you wonder how many false defectors like Webster were referred to as "Project"? Or anybody.
Deniers try not to notice the huge pile of evidence they have to ignore in order to make their dismissive arguments.
You can imagine the file tracing that could be done if they knew the Oswald cryptonym.
I think it is time for H&L defenders to ignore some obvious trolls who will say anything to deny the obvious. Imagine someone patronizing Wilcott by saying he believed what he said was true while ignoring that what he said was Oswald was identified by a CIA case officer as being a "project" with a cryptonym. That by some perverted twist of logic that you could think this was true yet it had no significance. The deniers are sick people that shouldn't be taken seriously. The deniers are basically trolling.
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Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Jim Hargrove - 17-07-2015
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Drew Phipps - 17-07-2015
Dallas PD's inventory ( this site but not this page )
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338767/m1/21/?q=inventory
lists an "application for driver's license" among Oswald's possessions at the Beckley boarding house.
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Albert Doyle - 17-07-2015
What some of the deniers foolishly don't understand is that the item in question is a small paper card license designed to be held in a wallet. A certain crude H&L denier is trying to present the smudged driver's license application as being the card found at the Texas Highway and Safety Department. Only someone who doesn't know what they are talking about would dare propose that the large legal letter-sized application is what the clerk was referring to when she said 6 employees saw the small driver's license with Oswald's name on it. The claim that this card was the application only shows the investigatory incompetence of the claimer. This crude hack is trying to place himself and his judgment before the people who were there and were trained to identify such objects. Driver's license cards were something they handled every day. They knew the difference between an application and license. The card was clearly referred to as a "driver's license". Only a person not mindful of their credibility and desperate to deny H&L would dare such a sloppy claim.
The bungling failure of the deniers to refute this obvious driver's license creates big problems for the attackers of Armstrong's theory because it is strong proof of an existing and well-used license long before Oswald applied for a driver's license. It would make sense that such a license existed because any Oswald doubles would want to avoid bringing attention to themselves by being caught driving without one. The deniers are ignoring the numerous sightings of Oswald driving, or creating silly excuses for these events like the application.
Anyone want to discuss HARVEY & LEE? - Jim Hargrove - 17-07-2015
I've always been fascinated by the driver's license business. It is amazing how many people saw Lee Oswald drive. The Warren Commission attorneys SEEMED genuinely puzzled by it all, because they got Marina (who said her husband didn't drive, along with the Paines) together with several witnesses who said he DID drive a car, and let them argue it out, sort of. But what is really remarkable is that the WC staff simply didn't call the Texas Dept of Public Safety and find out if there was a driver's license issued to "Lee Harvey Oswald."
They were probably afraid of the answer they might get. Fortunately, Jim Garrison wasn't afraid. If anyone hasn't seen it, there is a good write-up on the issue here: