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+--- Thread: Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book (/thread-5184.html)
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Jim DiEugenio - 30-12-2010
I did not see a discussion of this book on the first two pages.
http://ctka.net/reviews/Green_LBJ.html
SO here is Joe Green's review of the LBJ Mastermind book.
It is astonishing to me that no one pointed out that 1.) Nelson actually takes long time CIA asset Hersh and The Dark SIde of Camelot seriously, and 2.) So much of the book recycles all the nuttiness in all those anti -Kennedy books which i discussed in my essay "The Post Humous Assassination of JOhn F. Kennedy".
I thought the book was about how Johnson controlled the plot to kill JFK?
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Dawn Meredith - 30-12-2010
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:I did not see a discussion of this book on the first two pages.
http://ctka.net/reviews/Green_LBJ.html
SO here is Joe Green's review of the LBJ Mastermind book.
It is astonishing to me that no one pointed out that 1.) Nelson actually takes long time CIA asset Hersh and The Dark SIde of Camelot seriously, and 2.) So much of the book recycles all the nuttiness in all those anti -Kennedy books which i discussed in my essay "The Post Humous Assassination of JOhn F. Kennedy".
I thought the book was about how Johnson controlled the plot to kill JFK?
Jim: Welcome to DPF. I wonder if Mr. Nelson read your article. If not he certainly should have. I recommend it to all who push Sy Hersh's "Dark Side" bullcrap.
Joe's review is terrific. Thanks for posting it here. And for joining us.
You will find it way more friendly here than the other forum.
Dawn
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Charles Drago - 30-12-2010
Hello Jim,
First things first: I publicly thank you for the manner in which you championed (there's no better word to describe your actions) DPF during the hacking/hijacking melodrama of the past few weeks.
Your posts on EF in which you all but blunted the efforts of those jackels who sought to lie and disinform about DPF and its owners always will be deeply appreciated hereabouts.
As for this thread: I think that I was first to expose the LBJ-as-"Mastermind" book as, at best, an empty-headed analysis and, at worst, an effort to reinforce the cover-up by refocusing critical attention on one of the assassination's False Sponsors.
Jim Fetzer and I went 'round and 'round on all this -- albeit in a manner characterized by mutual respect and friendship. As so often is the case, he and I have amicably agreed to disagree.
As for Robert Morrow, the book's most vocal champion, I can only throw up my hands and note the adage, "Ego is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity."
Morrow reduces his "argument" to the schoolyard level: it's "Who do you go for, the Red Sox or the Yankess?" when he attempts to defend the indefensible "Johnson as Mastermind" position.
Neither he nor Phillip Nelson demonstrate the slightest sophistication as thinkers or writers. The thoughtless -- if not sinister -- choice of the word "mastermind" as applied to LBJ reveals the total absence of deep political awareness/analytical thought on the parts of Nelson and his protege.
Clearly you subsequently did the very heavy and very important lifting, bringing to the controversy the sort of in-depth analysis for which you're properly praised.
For an overview of how Nelson's book has been treated here at DPF, search for Robert Morrow, then search for his threads.
To summarize, the entire FALSE SPONSOR/disinformation game is given away by the simple choice of the word "mastermind" when referring to LBJ's involvement in the Kennedy assassination.
And when Nelson and the eager echo chamber Morrow favorably compared Nelson's transparently disinformative book to James Douglass's seminal JFK and the Unspeakable, we came face to face with the realization that these poseurs will stop at nothing to dignify work that is in every respect beneath contempt.
Charles
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Jack White - 30-12-2010
I agree that MASTERMIND is the wrong word to describe LBJ.
CRIMINALMIND would be better.
However, IMO LBJ was a CENTRAL player in the plot and
certainly the MOST ESSENTIAL to its successful "execution".
Mastermind, no. Essential, yes.
Jack
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Jim DiEugenio - 30-12-2010
You are welcome Charles. Over at Spartacus I just kind of felt that MB was distorting things knowing that people like Colby would eat it up.
Pertaining to the Nelson book, Green pointed out over there that Nelson has LBJ in just about complete charge of everything. This includes a Liftonesque version of the autopsy--hijacking and alteration--and complete control of the cover up after.
To me, this is about as bad a solipsistic view of things as John Hankey in JFK 2.
The idea that someone like LBJ, who had no training in intelligence work, could control something like the JFK plot which, as Jim Garrison once said, "Makes Dr. No and Goldfinger look like auditor's reports", is just unfounded. It simply could not happen.
Barr McCllelan's book, which is another source that Nelson uses, is so simple minded in this regard, that its almost risible.
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Charles Drago - 30-12-2010
Jack,
Agreed.
Jim,
You make the argument in a nutshell: LBJ had neither the sophistication to plan nor -- and this is critical -- the CLOUT TO SPONSOR JFK's murder.
LBJ was owned by the assassination's Sponsors. He did as he was told, and he was rewarded accordingly. To ascribe to LBJ any more power than this is to misunderstand -- fatally -- how the world works and where heads of state, including US presidents, fit into the overworld power structure.
In my informed judgement, LBJ was a criminal co-conspirator in the murder of JFK. In the context of the Sponsors/Facilitators/Mechanics plot structure, he falls within the False Sponsor sub-set of Sponsors, and within Facilitators.
LBJ played those roles and did those deeds. Nothing more, nothing less.
Charles
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Keith Millea - 30-12-2010
Jim,
I think that the lack of discussion about the "LBJ Mastermind" book was mostly because Frank Nelson managed to piss some people off for his put down comment of Robert Groden.From the "Robert Groden sues Dallas" thread on page two.See below:
http://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4190-Robert-groden-sues-dallas/page2
Quote:From comments section:
Frank Nelson says:
Dallas is right to give Dealey Plaza back to the public and take it back from the vendors that race each other to shove perioicals with JFK's autopsy photos in visitors faces when they try to park on Houston street or follow visitors around the Plaza trying to sell drugs and pimp prostitutes. It's disgusting and disgraceful to JFK's memory.
The harrassment has gotten so bad in Dealey Plaza (especially at the spot where Mr. Zapruder filmed the tragedy) that I and my friends stopped visiting it in 2007. It leaves a horrible impression for foreign visitors to take back to their countries as well as out of state visitors too.
Groden has a website he can sell his material at and the vendors can do likewise.
I suspect Groden is trying to worm his business inside the 6th Floor museum to compete with Gary Mack. In Spanish such a person is known as a "gusano".
Posted On: Thursday, Jul. 1 2010 @ 8:06PM
http://tinyurl.com/32vcn32
As Phil Dragoo responded,gusano translates as akin to worm or maggot.Didn't go over too well here.
That being said,welcome to DPF.I listen to BlackOpRadio every week,and enjoy your talks very much.And I'll add,I thought the last show where you were able to ask Jim Hougan questions to be one of my favorites.
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Charles Drago - 30-12-2010
Such seems to be a manifestation of one of Nelson's two goals/assignments: Further factionalize the research community.
The other, of course, is to fortify LBJ's FALSE Sponsorship role, and thus prolong the interminable debate and protect the true Sponsors.
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Jim DiEugenio - 30-12-2010
Your welcome keith.
The Hougan show was one of my favorites.
Didn't know Nelson said that about Groden.
Groden inside the SIxth Floor? How?
Nelson's LBJ Mastermind book - Greg Burnham - 30-12-2010
Charles,
I agree with you completely as to LBJ's role. And, as Jack said, NOT "mastermind" but "criminal mind" best describes Johnson. Although he was up to his neck in the whole thing as far as his role went (fittingly, his SS code name was: Volunteer), assigning him the "mastermind" role would have been over his head. He was necessary for several functions, including being a co-orchestrator of the cover-up along with Hoover and Dulles, but with the power of the presidency behind him.
And, if Johnson ever had the illusion as to the grandiosity of his position in the execution of the plot, it was thoroughly shattered when his close friend, Governor John Connelly, was unexpectedly placed in the cross-hairs and deliberately targeted by the assassins. That sent a clear message to Johnson.