Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Printable Version +- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora) +-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: JFK Assassination (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-3.html) +--- Thread: Saint Fletcher the Obscure (/thread-5561.html) |
Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Peter Presland - 27-01-2011 Bernice Moore Wrote: Also available as a single pdf here Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Jim DiEugenio - 27-01-2011 Seamus has done a lot of work on the newspaper story since he lives in New Zealand. I think the general claim is correct about when the story appeared. Dave Perry did a hit piece on Prouty about this issue. Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Albert Doyle - 27-01-2011 If Prouty saw a black ops defamation package already in print before Oswald was even charged then that tells you all you need to know and there's no reason for not moving forward with it as evidence CIA premeditated JFK's assassination. Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Adrian Mack - 27-01-2011 Prouty also authored Hubbard's "official biography". Moreover: Quote:I haven't read Prouty's JFK book, although I gather that he either deliberately or mistakenly cites Leonard Lewin's satirical Report from Iron Mountain as authentic. In fact, I think this line is from Lewin, via "Mr. X": "The organizing principle of any society is for war. The basic authority of a modern state over its people resides in its war powers." I'm no expert on L Fletcher Prouty, although I've noted his gift for freely saying precisely what many of us would like to hear without the retaliation or consequences one would normally expect from the all-powerful Secret Team-types he's uncovering. I'd add that I can totally ignore Prouty's contribution to JFK and MLK research without shaking my fairly commensurate opinions one bit. Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Jan Klimkowski - 27-01-2011 Thanks to all for some fascinating posts. Like most here, I consider Leroy Fletcher Prouty a bona fide trail-blazer in exposing both the techniques of covert operations and the big picture details of many specific covert operations. As a filmmaker and journalist (contradictory and complementary vocations), the Donald Sutherland "Mr X" role has always struck me as dramatically and literally true. True not at the dotted 'i' and crossed 't' level, but at the level of metaphor and resonance. Crucial insider information was channelled to a key investigator at the precise moment when it could become public record, and thereafter take on a life and momentum of its own. In short, I consider L Fletcher Prouty's information and insights to be fundamentally valuable, even if details of specific claims are ultimately found to be exaggerated or even false. I posted the supposed Prouty letter on L Ron Hubbard and Scientology because I was interested in whether it was genuine and, if so, what light it might throw on the man himself. David Guyatt and I have independently investigated Scientology and L Ron, and discussed this many times here on DPF. At the fundamental level, my own view is that the Church of Scientology itself was an intelligence operation. Its cult status enabled covert human experimentation to be undertaken by intelligence agencies on a plausibly deniable basis. However, Scientology's house organs, such as Freedom magazine, were one of the major sources of exposure of the crimes of "MK-ULTRA" (in the broad sense to refer to covert mind control programmes), and particularly the use of narco-hypno-trauma to erase memory, and to implant programming. I'm with John Judge and Jim Hougan in unequivocally declaring Jonestown to be a covert, CIA-led, intelligence operation involving terminal human experimentation. The fact that Scientology shares this conclusion gives me pause for thought, but no more. The possibility that L Fletcher Prouty shares this conclusion is intriguing. If the letter in my post #2 in this thread is genuine, then Prouty appears to be both familiar with, and sympathetic to, L Ron Hubbard and the Church of Scientology. I note also that Hubbard was allegedly ONI. This does not discredit Prouty in my judgement. A familiarity and sympathy with a subject does not make one a true believer. However, it is certainly relevant information in considering L Fletcher Prouty in his entirety. Finally, again with the working assumption that the letter is genuine, I must draw attention to the following statement by Prouty: Quote:Unlike MI-5's Peter Wright, Ron Hubbard was of the old school. He never revealed important intelligence sources and methods. Did L Fletcher Prouty consider himself "of the old school"? If so, the implications are immense...... Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Keith Millea - 27-01-2011 Quote:Did L Fletcher Prouty consider himself "of the old school"? Did L Fletcher Prouty consider himself "a member of the Church of Scientology"? Saint Fletcher the Obscure - David Guyatt - 27-01-2011 I was corresponding with Prouty before he died on another subject altogether. And like many here I admired his books, all of which I've read. And also for being, as Jan said, a "trail blazer". He was certainly that. He brought many insights that literally "opened my eyes" to what we might call the "big game" run by the "high cabal". So much for my prior myopia. I wonder about the veracity of that letter. I really do. Were I to have the time I think I might fact check every single item that can be fact checked. And I would undertake a study of its composition, syntax and general style comparing it to the books he wrote. Because my opinion of L Ron Hubbard doesn't run at all high. Not in the slightest. And I would also be alarmed if Prouty was, as it seems he is doing, implicitly supporting MKULTRA operations. My gut feeling is that he would shy far away from that activity; that it would be anathema to him. Particularly so in his later years after he had stood up to be counted on so many other important subjects. It simply doesn't jibe, imo. So, in conclusion, I would need stringent proof that the letter was true. And if proved so I would need a hefty drink to calm my nerves and comfort my shame at having allowed myself to have been conned. Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Jan Klimkowski - 27-01-2011 David Guyatt Wrote:I wonder about the veracity of that letter. I really do. Were I to have the time I think I might fact check every single item that can be fact checked. And I would undertake a study of its composition, syntax and general style comparing it to the books he wrote. David - I share your reservations, and reiterate that the authenticity of the letter is not proven. I will add some further context from the site at which I found it, the url of which I included in post #2: http://web.ncf.ca/cj871/prouty.html Quote:L. Fletcher Prouty's Letter to Miller's Publisher So, the letter was provided by a "Scientology spokesman". However, the Church of Scientology is adamant that both Jim Garrison and Fletcher Prouty did have dealings with them. This is from their "Freedom" magazine website: Quote: Means of Speaking Out http://30th.freedommag.org/page29.htm I have not seen any copies of Prouty's "19-part series" allegedly published between 1985-87 in "Freedom". However, back issues must exist somewhere. And here are the comments allegedly given by Prouty to "Freedom" on Jonestown: Quote:Mass Murder http://investigations.freedommag.org/invest/usa/19940101.htm There are several threads on Jonestown here at DPF, which include the research of John Judge and Jim Hougan. My judgement of the comments attributed to Prouty in the "Freedom" Jonestown article is that they are entirely consistent with the evidence and an objective interpretation of that evidence. Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Jan Klimkowski - 27-01-2011 Adrian Mack Wrote:Prouty also authored Hubbard's "official biography". There appear to be multiple links for this - but I'm yet to find a meaningful review of L Fletcher Prouty's tome on L Ron Hubbard. And yes - the "L" thing is really beginning to bug me. :poke: http://www.amazon.co.uk/L-Ron-Hubbards-Authorized-Biography/dp/088404274X http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7166833-l-ron-hubbard-s-authorized-biography http://www.paperbackswap.com/L-Ron-Hubbards-Fletcher-Prouty/book/088404274X/ Saint Fletcher the Obscure - Bernice Moore - 28-01-2011 dawn quote''I have always been a true believer re Prouty, but...this is an interesting thing to consider. That letter is damn weird. Beyond weird. I too had never seen it before. ''...Nor I, Jan may i ask, would you please provide a link to the letter, where is it from...thanks..b |