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Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Albert Doyle - 24-02-2011
I hate to make light of it, but Sergeant Vinson's encounter has unavoidable humor involved with it that can't be ignored.
Douglass put a comprehensive explanation on the Vinson episode but added something comical I hadn't realized. Vinson ended up inside the double Oswald evacuation operation from Dallas by comical coincidence. Thanks to a well-meaning Air Force dispatcher's effort to help Vinson hitch a ride Vinson ended-up on a secret CIA plane on a very sinister mission. I'd imagine the CIA flight had to file a flight plan that the helpful dispatcher saw at the last minute and called Vinson on the base loudspeaker to inform him of.
This would be an almost hysterical sit-com type comedy if it wasn't so evil. The reason the two pilots in unmarked CIA coveralls rushed right by Vinson and didn't do any small-talk with him was because they thought he was a CIA officer placed on the flight to watch them as part of the mission. The reason they rushed right by him was because they thought they were impressing him with their following strict orders of silence. This is something that never dawned on me until Douglass explained it. So Vinson then shuts-up and maintains military decorum by not asking any questions and just taking the ride he was lucky to get.
The pilots announce on the intercom in dry unemotional terms "The president was shot at 12:29pm". They break the order of silence because they figure this is something their assumed CIA monitor, Vinson, would want to know. The CIA C-54 aircraft then makes a hard left bank for Dallas.
The black comedy resumes when the CIA double Oswald and his Latin-looking friend get on the plane in Dallas by the surreptitious runway on the highway under construction. They also rush by the unknown CIA officer (Vinson) and up to the front of the plane where they maintain orders of silence and don't talk at all, not even to each other.
As Douglass does throughout the Unspeakable he has a remarkable ability to put the correct interpretation on previously uninterpreted conspiracy evidence. He imagines the inevitable CIA debriefing where the four silent operators told the debriefer that everybody followed orders, including your man on board. You can imagine the shock in the CIA debriefer when he asked them "what man"?
CIA exposed itself when they then finally located the manifest at Andrews and found Sergeant Vinson's data. They then sent FBI out to question Vinson's neighbors about what kind of person he was and, especially, what he spoke to them about. They then attempted to coopt Vinson by offering him a CIA job. After all, he had shut-up. Who knows what jungle Vinson would have disappeared into without ever being heard of again had he accepted that job? In the end Vinson was kept prisoner by giving him a top secret CIA airbase job within the Blackbird program. Probably, the only reason we are talking about him today is because, like others who lived to tell their tale, he kept quiet for decades.
A black comedy that isn't so funny when you think of it...
Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Bill Kelly - 25-02-2011
Albert Doyle Wrote:I hate to make light of it, but Sergeant Vinson's encounter has unavoidable humor involved with it that can't be ignored.
Douglass put a comprehensive explanation on the Vinson episode but added something comical I hadn't realized. Vinson ended up inside the double Oswald evacuation operation from Dallas by comical coincidence. Thanks to a well-meaning Air Force dispatcher's effort to help Vinson hitch a ride Vinson ended-up on a secret CIA plane on a very sinister mission. I'd imagine the CIA flight had to file a flight plan that the helpful dispatcher saw at the last minute and called Vinson on the base loudspeaker to inform him of.
This would be an almost hysterical sit-com type comedy if it wasn't so evil. The reason the two pilots in unmarked CIA coveralls rushed right by Vinson and didn't do any small-talk with him was because they thought he was a CIA officer placed on the flight to watch them as part of the mission. The reason they rushed right by him was because they thought they were impressing him with their following strict orders of silence. This is something that never dawned on me until Douglass explained it. So Vinson then shuts-up and maintains military decorum by not asking any questions and just taking the ride he was lucky to get.
The pilots announce on the intercom in dry unemotional terms "The president was shot at 12:29pm". They break the order of silence because they figure this is something their assumed CIA monitor, Vinson, would want to know. The CIA C-54 aircraft then makes a hard left bank for Dallas.
The black comedy resumes when the CIA double Oswald and his Latin-looking friend get on the plane in Dallas by the surreptitious runway on the highway under construction. They also rush by the unknown CIA officer (Vinson) and up to the front of the plane where they maintain orders of silence and don't talk at all, not even to each other.
As Douglass does throughout the Unspeakable he has a remarkable ability to put the correct interpretation on previously uninterpreted conspiracy evidence. He imagines the inevitable CIA debriefing where the four silent operators told the debriefer that everybody followed orders, including your man on board. You can imagine the shock in the CIA debriefer when he asked them "what man"?
CIA exposed itself when they then finally located the manifest at Andrews and found Sergeant Vinson's data. They then sent FBI out to question Vinson's neighbors about what kind of person he was and, especially, what he spoke to them about. They then attempted to coopt Vinson by offering him a CIA job. After all, he had shut-up. Who knows what jungle Vinson would have disappeared into without ever being heard of again had he accepted that job? In the end Vinson was kept prisoner by giving him a top secret CIA airbase job within the Blackbird program. Probably, the only reason we are talking about him today is because, like others who lived to tell their tale, he kept quiet for decades.
A black comedy that isn't so funny when you think of it...
Vinson's lawyer gave a talk at a Dallas COPA conference right before my presentation a few years ago, and I found it very convincing and believe that it happened, at least in general terms, and there are records of all the flights that he mentions.
As the CIA learned when Hasenfras was shot down during the Iran-Contra operation, the transport part of covert ops -planes, boats, trains and automobiles, provide a paper trail that eventually provides the documentation that exposes their operations.
BK
Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Charles Drago - 25-02-2011
Albert Doyle Wrote:They then attempted to coopt Vinson by offering him a CIA job.
What else could they do?
Kill him?
Come on, Albert, the Vinson story is pure drama -- a fictive construct designed to confuse.
We can't afford to believe in mistakes. Not at that level.
WHY would the killers of a president hesitate to kill a witness to the conspiracy?
Play it out. The comedy of errors is as you describe it. WHY, then, wouldn't "they" have just whacked Vinson?
Perhaps because he knew just enough to muddy the waters way down the line?
If it all happened in the first place.
I would humbly suggest, my friend, that you instinctively seek to over-complicate already complex scenarios.
Finally, a word about James Douglass is in order.
Like so many others I am enamored of JFKU. But its author would be the first to tell you that he is not flawless in his reasoning. I don't buy this good and great man's interpretations of the Chicago plot and the Vinson case. For starters.
Let us not cannonize James Douglass. Thinking he has produced holy writ is equivalent, for example, to thinking that JFK truly knew what hit him.
And in very real if very different manners, I love both of them.
Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Albert Doyle - 25-02-2011
Charles Drago Wrote:Come on, Albert, the Vinson story is pure drama -- a fictive construct designed to confuse.
We can't afford to believe in mistakes. Not at that level.
WHY would the killers of a president hesitate to kill a witness to the conspiracy?
Play it out. The comedy of errors is as you describe it. WHY, then, wouldn't "they" have just whacked Vinson?
The biggest flaw in Vinson's story is no one seeing a big C-54 lumber down in Dallas by the Trinity River. This stands out to me and I don't know what to make of it? Did Vinson land at Red Bird but lied in order not to break a military oath? One that they could tag him for.
Did the story tellers make-up an intercom announcement that said 12:29 instead of 12:30 to make it sound unique and therefore real?
I would guess this one is real because it was witnessed right away by his wife. But also because the FBI harassment started a few months after the assassination. It doesn't stand to reason that this would be a "construct" because the timing is right for Vinson telling his wife "That was the guy I saw on the flight" while watching Oswald on TV. Were the FBI in on the construct too so early in the game? For what reason? They were witnessed by people in the town.
You would have to explain why Vinson would go through all these documented moves in the months after the assassination? Why would he take a bus from Roswell if he hitched a flight to Denver? The documented behavior and happenings occurring to Vinson right after the assassination show something was happening to him. In my mind this is too soon after the assassination for spooks to be constructing red-herrings involving doubles.
In the end, we have to ask what purpose putting a "construct" out there that proved a second Oswald would have? Especially one that showed he was associated with CIA?
I thought about it and if this story is true the only reason Vinson is alive is because he kept his mouth shut in the time between the flight and the FBI interviews.
Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Charles Drago - 25-02-2011
Albert Doyle Wrote:The biggest flaw in Vinson's story is no one seeing a big C-54 lumber down in Dallas by the Trinity River. This stands out to me and I don't know what to make of it? Did Vinson land at Red Bird but lied in order not to break a military oath? One that they could tag him for.
Albert, you're treading water, desperately trying to explain away the unexplainable in order to support your theory.
Albert Doyle Wrote:I would guess this one is real because it was witnessed right away by his wife. But also because the FBI harassment started a few months after the assassination. It doesn't stand to reason that this would be a "construct" because the timing is right for Vinson telling his wife "That was the guy I saw on the flight" while watching Oswald on TV. Were the FBI in on the construct too so early in the game? For what reason? They were witnessed by people in the town.
You would have to explain why Vinson would go through all these documented moves in the months after the assassination?
"Documented?" Really? It very well may be that I'm insufficiently familiar with the story, but how strong is your "documentation" here?
And why are you discounting the possibility that Vinson was a lowest-level Facilitator assigned to spread disinformation in the form of his story?
Albert Doyle Wrote:Why would he take a bus from Roswell if he hitched a flight to Denver?
If the use of Roswell in this story doesn't set off deafening alarm bells and signal disinformation to you ...
Albert Doyle Wrote:In my mind this is too soon after the assassination for spooks to be constructing red-herrings involving doubles.
If you are not familiar with the "red-herrings" [sic] involving doubles" that permeate this conspiracy and that were "constructed" BEFORE the attack ...
Albert Doyle Wrote:In the end, we have to ask what purpose putting a "construct" out there that proved a second Oswald would have? Especially one that showed he was associated with CIA?
The purpose of supporting the multi-fable disinformation -- the conflicting fictive constructs -- upon which the cover-up continues to count for success.
Besides, the CIA is a FALSE Sponsor of the assassination.
Albert Doyle Wrote:I thought about it and if this story is true the only reason Vinson is alive is because he kept his mouth shut in the time between the flight and the FBI interviews.
So "they" monitored him closely and constantly and at great risk and expense because, after all, what else could they have done?
Kill him?
Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Albert Doyle - 25-02-2011
Charles Drago Wrote:"Documented?" Really? It very well may be that I'm insufficiently familiar with the story, but how strong is your "documentation" here?
My good man Charles, I'm surprised at you. The reassignment to the CIA airbase and transfers could be investigated. Personnel records, tax forms, etc. We could reasonably trace that Vinson was reassigned as he said he was. Routine investigation. How far are you going here? Are you saying Vinson was lying about everything and stayed at Colorado Springs the whole time?
Also his neighbors could be asked if FBI asked them questions about Vinson at the claimed time? Pretty simple.
Charles Drago Wrote:And why are you discounting the possibility that Vinson was a lowest-level Facilitator assigned to spread disinformation in the form of his story?
For what purpose? CIA appears to have been killing people to prevent exposure. Why would they then create a false scenario that then established what they were killing people to hide elsewhere? That doesn't make sense. Since they actually were involved and actually did have an Oswald double why would they then go out of their way to show it? To take the blame as the bad cop fall-guys? For what purpose? If they did that they'd only be defeating the whole purpose of the Warren Commission. Since they crushed, defamed and destroyed others who witnessed their involvement why then did they choose to aid Vinson's story?
Charles Drago Wrote:If the use of Roswell in this story doesn't set off deafening alarm bells and signal disinformation to you ...
Roswell was an active airbase near the Mexican border but safely out of the state of execution. Don't think UFO's Charles, think escape. And that's probably the last you'll ever see or hear from our friend Harvey again.
Charles Drago Wrote:If you are not familiar with the "red-herrings" [sic] involving doubles" that permeate this conspiracy and that were "constructed" BEFORE the attack
Sure, but the established pattern is deliberate flaunting of Oswald doubles for the purpose of framing Lee before the assassination and desperate concealing after.
Charles Drago Wrote:The purpose of supporting the multi-fable disinformation -- the conflicting fictive constructs -- upon which the cover-up continues to count for success.
Besides, the CIA is a FALSE Sponsor of the assassination.
OK, -BUT- the way reality works is CIA is then guilty of treasonous assassination as far as their participation. This is 47 years later and we still have no suspects. I don't disagree with determining the true Sponsors, however it would be good to at least identify some of the actors or facilitators. The way law normally works is some of the suspects are brought in and coerced into giving away the higher-ups. In my opinion whether this is disinformation or a construct it still contains enough of a healthy portion of the actual plot to call it and act on it.
Charles Drago Wrote:So "they" monitored him closely and constantly and at great risk and expense because, after all, what else could they have done?
Kill him?
We don't know the specifics. Maybe the debriefer also kept his mouth shut? Maybe he assumed Vinson was a CIA ghost agent sent in from a different 'compartment' and didn't start the ball rolling until he himself was debriefed a while later - maybe even months?
I see you are hinting that because Vinson wasn't killed, even though he stood to blow the whole plot, that raises suspicions. Well, I'm not sure that's a firm indicator. They would have had to kill his wife as well - which they could have done - but I think they decided not to because they saw Vinson wasn't talking. They probably determined that Vinson had to know and the fact he was shutting-up meant he was possibly unthreatening. Maybe they didn't kill him because in the interim, before they found him, he might have sent some files to people in case he was killed.
I don't think they were monitoring him because if they were they wouldn't have needed to ask his neighbors what he was doing. The FBI probing could have been an attempt to flush Vinson out to see if he would run to the authorities. Then I think we would have seen Vinson killed, or maybe framed as a spy.
In my mind blowing CIA's cover and exposing their Oswald double plot would only precipitate a meltdown that would bring further evidence out to expose the Sponsors. It doesn't make sense CIA would participate in this.
.
Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Phil Dragoo - 25-02-2011
B-52s and Atlas missiles. Closed in 1967.
Vinson by a simple twist of fate took a ride with yet one more Oswaldganger.
He might've been an air conditioning technician giving a lift to a man with curtain rods headed to the Depository on Wednesday the 20th only to wind up with forty electroshock treatments and enough thorazine to become a zombie.
In 'sixties parlance, a happening, full of non sequiturs and Daliesque taffy-pull, mimes on the court, the tennis ball is at your feet.
Or not.
Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Charles Drago - 25-02-2011
Albert Doyle Wrote:My good man Charles, I'm surprised at you. The reassignment to the CIA airbase and transfers could be investigated. Personnel records, tax forms, etc. We could reasonably trace that Vinson was reassigned as he said he was. Routine investigation. How far are you going here? Are you saying Vinson was lying about everything and stayed at Colorado Springs the whole time?
Are you saying he wasn't?
Albert Doyle Wrote:Also his neighbors could be asked if FBI asked them questions about Vinson at the claimed time? Pretty simple.
"Could be ... could be ... could be ... "
Were they? Were they? Were they?
Albert Doyle Wrote:For what purpose? CIA appears to have been killing people to prevent exposure. Why would they then create a false scenario that then established what they were killing people to hide elsewhere? That doesn't make sense.
Precisely the point. Which makes sense.
Albert Doyle Wrote:Since they actually were involved and actually did have an Oswald double why would they then go out of their way to show it? To take the blame as the bad cop fall-guys? For what purpose? If they did that they'd only be defeating the whole purpose of the Warren Commission. Since they crushed, defamed and destroyed others who witnessed their involvement why then did they choose to aid Vinson's story?
Here's a hint: It's 47 years later, the story is out, and the only damage it has done is to cause "researchers" to squabble with each other.
Albert Doyle Wrote:Roswell was an active airbase near the Mexican border but safely out of the state of execution. Don't think UFO's Charles, think escape. And that's probably the last you'll ever see or hear from our friend Harvey again.
Think, Albert.
"Roswell" is a poison pill. Tell your story, say the word, and in the immortal phrase of Michel LeGrand, watch what happens.
Learn their techniques, Albert.
Albert Doyle Wrote:Charles Drago Wrote:The purpose of supporting the multi-fable disinformation -- the conflicting fictive constructs -- upon which the cover-up continues to count for success.
Besides, the CIA is a FALSE Sponsor of the assassination.
OK, -BUT- the way reality works is CIA is then guilty of treasonous assassination as far as their participation. This is 47 years later and we still have no suspects.
We have plenty of suspects -- including 25 of the six gunmen.
What we don't have is justice -- and falling into one Vinson-baited trap of another helps tell us why.
Albert Doyle Wrote:The way law normally works is some of the suspects are brought in and coerced into giving away the higher-ups. In my opinion whether this is disinformation or a construct it still contains enough of a healthy portion of the actual plot to call it and act on it.
The "law" killed JFK.
But fine, have it your way.
Call it. Act on it.
Albert Doyle Wrote:We don't know the specifics. Maybe the debriefer also kept his mouth shut? Maybe he assumed Vinson was a CIA ghost agent sent in from a different 'compartment' and didn't start the ball rolling until he himself was debriefed a while later - maybe even months?
"Maybe, maybe, maybe ... " In the immortal, if fictional, words of Curly to the Boy General in Douglas C. Jones's The Court Martial of George Armstrong Custer, "Too many, Yellow Hair. Too many."
You've already grasped at enough straws to stuff a king size mattress.
Albert Doyle Wrote:I see you are hinting that because Vinson wasn't killed, even though he stood to blow the whole plot, that raises suspicions. Well, I'm not sure that's a firm indicator. They would have had to kill his wife as well - which they could have done - but I think they decided not to because they saw Vinson wasn't talking. They probably determined that Vinson had to know and the fact he was shutting-up meant he was possibly unthreatening. Maybe they didn't kill him because in the interim, before they found him, he might have sent some files to people in case he was killed.
Probably. Maybe.
You know, I think you're on to something.
"We've done enough killing on this job. Give the guy a break, he'll probably keep quiet. Maybe forever."
Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Albert Doyle - 25-02-2011
Charles Drago Wrote:Are you saying he wasn't?
I think I'd be willing to take the risk, so, yes.
I believe Vinson's transfers and tax records would show reassignment to area 51.
Charles Drago Wrote:Precisely the point. Which makes sense.
Precisely what point? Are you saying that if Vinson was as deep as his story put him that he would necessarily have been liquidated? But this fails to answer a basic question. If the story is therefore false why would CIA have put it out at the time when they were killing other people in order to hide it? The sword still cuts both ways. Since this doesn't make sense what does make sense is that the story is real and CIA decided not to eliminate Vinson (a soldier who they could otherwise control and who was shutting-up anyway. One of their own). This would be evinced by CIA trying to hire him. They thought his shutting-up showed the right stuff for CIA recruitment.
Charles Drago Wrote:Here's a hint: It's 47 years later, the story is out, and the only damage it has done is to cause "researchers" to squabble with each other.
I disagree. I think the story helps confirm the double Oswald evidence. The government doesn't care because it will never admit it.
Charles Drago Wrote:[Learn their techniques, Albert.
What possible reason would they have in exposing a very diabolical espionage tactic of using look-alikes - which turns out to be something they were guilty of and killing people over elsewhere? What "technique" is that???
Charles Drago Wrote:We have plenty of suspects -- including 25 of the six gunmen.
What we don't have is justice -- and falling into one Vinson-baited trap of another helps tell us why.
OK, let's go 100% with what you're saying here. We still have evidence of CIA establishing a look-alike red herring. They need to be exposed and cited on it legally. They're guilty of illegal complicity in a presidential assassination. I daresay that you yourself might be falling for a "technique" of parlor sleuthing while missing the fact they are exposed here -whatever the case- and can be acted upon for it. This is conspiracy and obstruction of justice. They are crimes.
Charles Drago Wrote:[The "law" killed JFK.
But fine, have it your way.
Call it. Act on it.
I think this is where we are getting down to it. This type of institutional treason requires measures equal to that which has been betrayed. They are counting on the American public not to act.
Charles Drago Wrote:[You've already grasped at enough straws to stuff a king size mattress.
No, to the contrary, I don't think your doubts are justified and I would be confident that any nominal check of Vinson's story would be corroborated. This would build from a check of Vinson's service record to interviews with any of his neighbors who are still living.
Charles Drago Wrote:You know, I think you're on to something.
"We've done enough killing on this job. Give the guy a break, he'll probably keep quiet. Maybe forever."
All they had to do was kill him if he made the move. If you are a purveyor of deceptive schemes I would say you yourself are giving the reason why Vinson wouldn't be killed. Even if his story was true it could be kept in reserve for the very deceptions you speak of. In a room full of mirrors you only need turn one mirror to change the scene.
Your crystal goblet is easily cracked me lord. Shattered in one cast. As would Vinson be had he spoken...
Side thought:
I remember shortly after Kennedy was killed listening to a popular tune on the radio, "Secret Agent Man - Secret Agent Man - He's giving you a number and throwing away your name"...
.
Vinson: The Blackest Of Humor - Bill Kelly - 25-02-2011
The Assassinations Records Review Board should have requested all of the records related to Vinson, the flight records, the base records and anything that could support or reject his story, as well as any other witnesses, including his commanding officers.
This should have also been the case with a half-dozen other military subjects and suspects.
While the ARRB no longer exists, Congress, specifically the House Oversight Committee, has the responsibility for overseeing the JFK Act, how agencies and departments responded to the ARRB requests for records, and can subpoena additional records and witnesses, if it wants to.
But they don't want to and will have to be required to do it, and will only do if their constituents, citizens of the USA and others who care ask them to do it, require them to do it, and bug the crap out of them to do it, as they did after viewing Oliver Stone's JFK.
You can argue about what it all means after reading a book, but Congress can and should answer the outstanding questions about the assassination that can and should be answered.
Sign the petition, join the effort to make Congress responsible to the people, the JFK Act law and the Constitution of the USA.
Bill Kelly
http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/