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+--- Thread: Oswald in Mexico (/thread-6210.html)
Oswald in Mexico - Vasilios Vazakas - 04-04-2011
Let's assume for the sake of the exercise, that Oswald's visit to the Cuban and Russian embassies was part of a legitimate CIA operation against FPCC and Castro/Soviet Union. What would have been the benefit of:
1. Sending Oswald himself to visit the embassies
2. Having an Oswald imposter (short, blond Oswald, but a different from the imposter that called the Soviet Union embassy speaking poor Russian) to visit the embassies
3. Sending both at different times in both embassies or sending the short blond in the Cuban and the real Oswald in the Soviet embassy.
What i am trying to say, is to forget the assassination plot for a moment, and concentrate on the CIA operation against FPCC. To begin with, it was an authorized CIA operation and not all those involved were part of a plot.
As Newman pointed out it was Angleton who hijacked a legitimate operation. And it was the imposter that phoned the Soviet embassy speaking poor Russian that created the World War III threat, not the short blond Oswald that visited the Cuban consulate.
Why not use Oswald himself as a continuation to his bona fides in New Orleans and to use an imposter? I said in a previous post that the plan, at least what i believe, was to have Oswald threat to kill Kennedy inside the Cuban embassy and then link him to a weapon that might have used against the President-not necessarily to kill him-to provoke an invasion in Cuba, a joint CIA-Militarry-SS operation. I would have expected that person to be Oswald himself, either wise why going into all this trouble to stage his New Orleans charades?
Besides both the Cubans and the Soviets must have known Oswald from New Orleans and his radio debates, so they would have not believed for a second that the imposter was the real one. So the operation would have failed, so i don't understand what they were trying to achieve.
And what if the imposter turned out to be Alek Hiddell?
Oswald in Mexico - Albert Doyle - 04-04-2011
It might help to clarify that the reason Mexico City CIA called the Soviet embassy impersonating Oswald was because their plants and wiretaps caught an "Oswald" attempting to make contact with both embassies. Newman speculates that some uninformed Mexico City CIA agents detected Oswald trying to make contact and were the ones who called the embassy trying to fish-out exactly what Oswald was doing there. If my memory serves me they asked questions that showed they knew certain subjects gotten from the wiretaps but showed they didn't know that Oswald had already resolved some of the issues they inquired about. In my mind what this shows is Oswald was partitioned within CIA and therefore showing signs of being operated on a deep cover basis out of Angleton's office. He was further partitioned by doing FBI agent provocateur work which meant if he was ever exposed his CIA doings could be passed-off on FBI.
Oswald in Mexico - Vasilios Vazakas - 05-04-2011
I would agree with Peter Dale Scott, that it was the Mexican DFS that handled the surveillance, and it was someone connected to them that called the embassy pretending to be Oswald.
Oswald was working for Angleton indirectly, possibly being an informant of a CIA proprietary company, controlled by Domestic Operations Division. He was also used by FBI's division 5, headed by Sullivan. Division 5 was conducting smearing operations against left wing organizations like FPCC and subversives.
Some believe that the Soviet embassy visit was a barium meal operation to expose a mole within CIA. Probably it was but not as a primary but a secondary operation to protect a ZR/RIFLE, QJ/WIN operation. William Harvey was visiting USA from Rome that summer, meeting with Rosselli, and charging all the expenses to ZR/RIFLE, QJ/WIN. I doubt it that he did all these without the approval of Richard Helms. I don't think he was planning JFK's murder. Anne Goodpasture was also a FI/D member,as Harvey was before he was fired.
It seems that an FI/D operation and ZR/RIFLE, was going on involving the Soviet embassy, to bring together Oswald and Kostikov, in order to blame a future assassination of Castro to Oswald and the Russians, in a treacherous act against Castro.
Angleton knew all these, so he officially entered the operation by protecting it from a mole, and unofficially manipulating the operation to blame the Soviets for JFK's death and create the WWIII threat.
This is my hypothesis, and i believe it is plausible.
It seems that Oswald himself never visited the Cuban consulate but an imposter and they were manipulating the "Oswald Legend" for both operations, one in the Cuban consulate and another in the Soviet embassy.
Oswald in Mexico - Vasilios Vazakas - 13-04-2011
I guess noone agreed with my hypothesis regarding Oswald in Mexico
Oswald in Mexico - A.J. Blocker - 19-04-2011
Vasilios,
I think theres a litle bit to much reliable evidence that the real Oswald did go to Mexico in 1963.
So if the real Oswald went he had a reason! Or was under instruction.
I also believe Angelton rushed to Win Scott's widow to retrieve a photogragh/photogragh's showing the real Oswald going into one or both of the consulates in Mexico City! Whether he was alone or in the company of another party in these photo's is the real secret!
Oswald in Mexico - Vasilios Vazakas - 19-04-2011
A.J. Blocker Wrote:Vasilios,
I think theres a litle bit to much reliable evidence that the real Oswald did go to Mexico in 1963.
So if the real Oswald went he had a reason! Or was under instruction.
I also believe Angelton rushed to Win Scott's widow to retrieve a photogragh/photogragh's showing the real Oswald going into one or both of the consulates in Mexico City! Whether he was alone or in the company of another party in these photo's is the real secret!
Hi A.J.
Many would disagree that he did go, and they refer to the bus ticket mix-up, the description of Oswald as short, 5'6", blond, by Azcue, Duran and others. Even if he did go to Mexico, it is not certain that he visited the Cuban consulate.
But i do not exclude the possibility that he only visited the Soviet embassy and he was impersonated in his Cuban consulate visits. Another possibility is that he was in Mexico for another reason and he did not visit any embassy.
I guess that is something that will never find out, it will remain a mystery.