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+--- Thread: A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria (/thread-6670.html)
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Magda Hassan - 24-07-2012
The Free Syrian Army doesn't seem to have any Syrians in it Bill. Just imported mercenaries from where ever. Most Syrians that were in it have now left it and are now supporting the government, now that they know they are being used for US imperial interests and not Syrian interests, like their spokesperson who resigned the other day. As for no Tunisians or Libyans being in it there are plenty of those but of the Al Qaeda/salafist type being paid by Saudi Arabia to cause chaos and destruction to Saudi secular enemies. Genuine Tunisian and Libyan social revolutionaries are still in their own country trying to make it happen there after being routed by the NATO and NED fronts.
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Magda Hassan - 24-07-2012
I haven't had time to look into this yet but looks interesting. There has been plenty of black propaganda happening and one of the popular tv presenters has been kidnapped ostensibly to make legitimate some upcoming scenario. Coupled with Thierry Meyssan's warning of major interruption and impersonation on the hijacked airwaves.
Quote:‎'Fall of Damascus' film
There is possibility al-Qaradawi gets a role too. Scenery models arrived in Doha on 19/7/2012 & were designed in the US. #Syria
GreenAgainstNWO @GreenAgainstNWO
Confirmed: Qatar: more than 40 000 of participants in the film "The Fall of Damascus," the majority of them are Indians and Bengals.
GreenAgainstNWO @GreenAgainstNWO
@syriancommando Qataris even made fake '#Homs Clock Tower'. It's standing near the Mall in Salwa street, Doha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daD2TZFudro
note: video maker says he will translate videos from arabic to english, if you email him
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Peter Lemkin - 24-07-2012
I take a mid-way position, as I perceive the two camps discussing here. I think most, if not all of the Arab Revolutions started organically, from real discontents of real people - not affiliated with anyone and not provocateurs. I can't believe the vegetable seller in Tunisia was a plant. Of course there soon are those who try to hijack the growing discontent and movements - as with the attempts to hijack Occupy and any other progressive movement you care to name in the 'West'. The Assad Regime is corrupt and authoritarian to the core...and so are those trying to supply mercenaries and hijack any real attempts at a People's revolution. The only 'good people' ARE the average persons in these countries - some of which, apparently, have also taken up light arms or are doing intelligence and sabotage, as well as demonstrations. Yes, others try on both sides to induce them to be co-opted. It is a real mess and very sad with all the deaths and destruction. I think it is very hard to tell where the balance of power currently lies - due to the heavy propaganda, lies and false images by all sides. I'm not optimistic things will turn out well in Syria - with the 'West' eying Iran next. I think there a many disparate groups fighting and disparate interests - some in concert - some not. Clearly, the two larger sides have the ability to project their propaganda, while most of the others do not. The same happened in Bahrain, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Tunisia and elsewhere - each a bit different and each having parallels. The Middle East countries most in need of a revolution are, IMHO, Saudi Arabia and Israel...and the least likely to see ones anytime soon. The Western country most in need of a revolution is my own, and also the least likely to see one anytime soon...... Sadly, there are now both organic and non-organically created 'freedom fighters' in the area - who use very vicious means [suicide bombings, IUDs, bombings, kidnappings, murders, et al. for one side or the other.] A total mess and I see no power with enough morality or legitimacy to help make things better at the moment. That will have to come from the People, world wide and in the area.
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Danny Jarman - 24-07-2012
Bill Kelly Wrote:While Hilary Clinton has been one of the biggest supporters of the Arab Spring revolts and seeing them through to an open, democratic societies
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Magda Hassan - 24-07-2012
Danny Jarman Wrote:I love fairy tales too Danny. 'And they all lived happily ever after..." :popworm:Bill Kelly Wrote:While Hilary Clinton has been one of the biggest supporters of the Arab Spring revolts and seeing them through to an open, democratic societies
:lol::lol::lol::lol:
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Magda Hassan - 24-07-2012
‎'One veteran Turkish journalist whom this author interviewed in Ankara in April, just back from an extensive tour of Syria, gave his eyewitness account of the capture of a small band of "opposition" fighters. The journalist, fluent in Arabic, was astonished as he witnessed the head of the rebels demand to know why their military captors spoke Arabic. When told that was their native language, the rebel leader blurted out, "But you should speak Hebrew, you're with the Israeli Army aren't you?"http://deadlinelive.info/2012/07/23/putins-geopolitical-chess-game-with-washington-in-syria-and-eurasia-f-william-engdahl/
So, that's why the rebels don't go after Israel.. '
recalls Anhar Kochnevas:
'There are a lot of soldiers of fortune among the bandits. They are Chechens, Romanians, French, Libyans, and Afghans. Moreover, there was a very funny accident with Afghan soldiers. A few Afghans were caught and asked, What are you doing here?' They replied, We were told that we came to Israel, and at night we are shooting at Israeli buses. We are fighting with the enemy to liberate Palestine.' It might be funny, but it is true. The guys were really surprised, Are we in Syria? We thought we were in Israel"
http://gbtimes.com/third-angle/syria/syria/eyewitness-account-media-lies-about-syria
so how many of the insurgents believe the are fighting israelis?????
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Bill Kelly - 25-07-2012
Peter, thank you for your sober and clear analysis. The fruit cart vendor in Tunisia was Mohammid Bouazizi, Revolutionary Program: Mohamed Bouazizi and the slap that started a revolution and we know that it wasn't a US CIA or NATO instigated revolt in Tunisia because no one bothered to report on it until a week after it began. The first BBC news report was three or four days after the protests had turned into riots because of the military and police crackdowns. If it was a Northwoods type trigger, all the mainstream Mockingbird media would have been all over it.
Revolutionary Program: Mrs Bouazizi Speaks to Mothers of Libyan Martyrs
As for Black Propaganda coming out of Syria, the only one I have positively identified is the one Maggie posted purporting to be the minutes of a US imperialist colonial meeting in Europe cutting up Syria the way they want, which of course, if actually a US document, would have been as boring as a WikiLkeaks cable.
And Maggie, if most of the Free Syrian Army is defecting, who are the Assad aircraft, helicopters, tanks and artillery shelling? All the foreign mercenaries?
I don't particularly care for Hilary Clinton as a person, but when the choice had to be made between the continued support for a dictator who backed US policies on terrorism, communism and oil or the democratic revolutionary movement against him, with the advice of US envoy to Benghazi Chris Stevens, she broke the long-standing US policy of support for the dictators. This policy held up in Egypt and is continuing in other countries - Syria and hopefully it will eventually extend to Bahrain, Yeman and Saudi Arabia.
Women have taken the lead in the Arab Spring
Revolutionary Program: Revolutionary Women
[URL="http://revolutionaryprogram.blogspot.com/2011/11/im-so-over-gaddafi-u.html"]Revolutionary Program: Mutassim's Model Girlfriends
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The revolt has already reached Saudi Arabia in subtle ways:
[URL="http://revolutionaryprogram.blogspot.com/2011/06/arab-revolt-reaches-saudi-arabia.html"]Revolutionary Program: Arab Revolt Reaches Saudi Arabia
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Honoring Women in an Age of Participation
http://libya.usembassy.gov/ne_030712a.html
By Ambassador Gene Cretz, U.S. Ambassador to Libya
Secretary Clinton has noted that "What we are learning aroundthe world is that if women are healthy and educated, their families willflourish. If women are free from violence, their families will flourish. Ifwomen have a chance to work and
earn as full and equal partners in society, their families will flourish. Andwhen families flourish, communities and nations will flourish." These wordshave particular relevance as we celebrate International Women's Day around theworld and as we continue to make strides for women's progress.
On December 10, 2011, the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to three extraordinarywomen who have led the fight for human rights and democracy in their homecountries President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf and Leymah Gbowee of Liberia,and Tawakkol Karman of Yemen.Their achievement signifies recognition on the world stage of the essentialrole that women must play in the hard work of building peace and sustainablecommunities in the 21st century.
In December, President Obama released the first-ever U.S.National Action Plan on Women, Peace, and Security, charting a roadmap for howthe United States will accelerate and institutionalize efforts across thegovernment to advance women's participation in preventing conflict and keepingpeace. This initiative represents a fundamental change in how the United States will approach its diplomatic,military, and development-based support to women in areas of conflict, byensuring that their perspectives and considerations of gender are woven intothe fabric of how the United Statesapproaches peace processes, conflict prevention, the protection of civilians,and humanitarian assistance.
This International Women's Day, Secretary Clinton and FirstLady Michelle Obama will host the 6th annual International Women of CourageAwards, honoring 10 remarkable women from around the world, including Libyanawardee Hana El Hebshi. These women have shown exceptional bravery andleadership in advocating for women's rights and empowerment, often at greatpersonal risk. Their stories represent just a few of the emerging leaders foundin every corner of the world.
Yet, as we rightfully honor achievements, we must also bereminded that International Women's Day is an opportunity to renew the call foraction, investment, and commitment to women's equality. We are at a moment of historicopportunity. Secretary Clinton has referred to this era as "the ParticipationAge." This is a time where every individual, regardless of gender or othercharacteristics, is poised to be a contributing and valued member of theirsociety.
Around the world, we are witnessing examples of theParticipation Age. This is particularly the case in Libya,where people stood up to a dictator and claimed their rights as citizens.Libyan women played a key role in the revolution and continue as activeparticipants in Libya'srobust civil society community and in Libyan politics. One in particular, HanaEl Hebshi, is being honored in Washington, D.C.today for her courage displayed during the revolution. She worked, often atrisk to her own safety, to get information out to the world about the crimescommitted by the former regime against the Libyan people. We expect Hana andthe hundreds and thousands of Libyan women just like her to fully participatein Libya's first elections, as voters and as candidates, and to help shape thenew government and new society taking shape in Libya.
Women are a cornerstone of America'sforeign policy because the simple fact is that no country can hope to moveahead if it is leaving half of its people behind. Women and girls drive oureconomies. They build peace and prosperity. Investing in women means investingin global economic progress, political stability, and greater prosperity foreveryone, the world over. As we honor them today, let us renew our resolve towork for the cause of equality each and every day of the year.
Remarks by Ambassador Gene Cretz "Inta Liby Hoor" AwardCeremony
[URL="http://libya.usembassy.gov/ne-022612.html"]http://libya.usembassy.gov/ne-022612.html
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Sunday, February 26, 2012, 6:00-8:00 p.m.Farhaty Hall, Tripoli, Libya
Al Salamu Alikum, my dear Libyan friends. Thank you somuch for joining us today.
Thanks to the tremendous creativity young Libyans havedemonstrated, we gather today to celebrate another milestone in this new age ofmedia freedom in Libya.
A little over a year ago, my Public Affairs team suggestedhosting a short film festival to promote freedom of expression in Libya.As a true believer in freedom of creativity, a movie fan, and a very optimisticman, I enthusiastically supported the idea. Unfortunately, the former regimedisagreed with our plans, and would not permit the project to proceed. Shortlythereafter, we suspended U.S.operations in Tripoli; ironically,because Qadhafi could not tolerate the free thoughts and ideas of the Libyanpeople.
This past year, Libyans demonstrated courage, bravery, andheroism, overcoming 40 years of enforced silence with a deafening roar. Libya'sfreedom stands in stark contrast to the oppression ongoing in Syria;we join Libyans in standing with the Syrian people in their protest againsttyranny. You liberated your country, and as a result, we Americans are welcomeagain in Libya.For this we thank you. We will do our utmost to support the exercise of freedomof expression in this new Libya.
I am truly honored to be here today to award some greatartists, in cooperation with our partner Libya One TV. I have seen the videosand I am impressed with the quality of work submitted, and by the sentiment andpurpose behind the messages in the films. You have shown a great deal oftalent and creativity, leaving no doubt about the ability of media to convey apowerful message.
As Ambassador of the United States of America, I am committed tosupporting Libya'sright to develop a modern society that enshrines basic human rights for allLibyans men and women; young and old; east, west, north, and south.
The projects represented this evening were created byindividuals and teams across Libya.Libya is trulya country united by men and women who value their freedom of expression and whohave demonstrated their commitment to this value through their art.
I thank you again for being here today. I have onefinal message to each and every single one of you, please always remember "IntaLiby Hoor."
[URL="http://libya.usembassy.gov/ne_040312.html"]http://libya.usembassy.gov/ne_040312.html
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Free Media CenterOpening
On Sunday April 1, 2012 the U.S. Ambassador to Libya, GeneA. Cretz, and five members of a U.S. Congressional delegation attended andspoke at the official opening of The Freedom Center for Media and CulturalExcellence (FMC), a Libyan non-governmentalorganization (NGO) formed in December 2011 in Tripoli, Libya. Over75 members of Libyan civil society, representing over 30 nongovernmental organizations(NGOs), educators and the media attended and enjoyed the positive exchange ofideas and enhanced outreach and networking opportunities. Manymembers of the Tripoli Local Tripoli Council and the National TransitionCouncil (NTC) participated in the event, including the Deputy Chairman of theTripoli Council, Dr. Sadet A. Al Badri, and Mr. Mahammed Harezi, the spokesmanfor the NTC, both of whom commended the efforts of the Libyan people to build anew democratic society.
The primary aim of the FMC,headed by Mr. Hussam Zagaar, is to contribute to the development of anindependent media and civil society, through programs geared towardstrengthening the local media and civil society organizations, and enhancingpublic awareness and involvement in the Libyan political process and promotionof culture.
The U.S. Ambassador praised the Center's work, noting that"a free, independent and professional media is essential to any democratic society."Congressmen David Drier and David Price, co-chairs of the House DemocracyPartnership, referenced the bipartisan nature of their delegation, andemphasized the importance of all aspects of Libyan society working togetherduring this l period to ensure a smooth transition to a democratically electedgovernment.
Since December, the U.S. government, through the Agency forInternational Development (USAID), has supported The Free Media Center withtraining materials, supplies and furniture, and has worked with theCenter to support programs that will contribute to an independent andprofessional media and an involved citizenry. The goal of the Free Media Centeris to help add transparency, ensure the spread of accurate and timelyinformation, encourage debate and provide a voice for Libyan citizens toexpress their views and concerns.
[URL="http://libya.usembassy.gov/ne_030712.html"]http://libya.usembassy.gov/ne_030712.html
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Winner of International Women of Courage Award
"Congratulations to Ms. Hana El-Hebshi (Numidia)on winning this year's prestigious International Women of Courage Award. Ms.El-Hebshi is honored by the U.S. Department of State for her portraying courageand bravery in fighting for the cause of freedom of expression during theLibyan revolution.
Ms. El-Hebshi will receive her award tomorrow in an official ceremony hosted bythe Secretary of State, Madame Hillary Rodham Clinton. The ceremony will alsofeature the special appearance of the First Lady, Ms. Michelle Obama. Ms. El-Hebshiwas also offered a ten-day workshop on women's leadership and will have thechance to visit five cities in the United States of America".
[URL="http://libya.usembassy.gov/ne_053112.html"]http://libya.usembassy.gov/ne_053112.html
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Statement by A/S Posner during Press Conference
Ministry of Defense- Tripoli, Libya May 31, 2012 18:00 local time
Today we concluded a very successful human rights dialoguewith the Libyan government. Our two days of discussions covered a rangeof important issues, including the upcoming parliamentary elections, detentionpolicies and practices, freedom of expression, and issues relating toaccountability and reconciliation. I want to thank Deputy ForeignMinister Mohammed Abdul-Aziz for hosting these meetings, and for his thoughtfulengagement in these discussions.
Libyais at a key moment in its democratic transition. In several weeks,Libyans will go to the polls to elect a national congress, the first openelections in more than four decades. And there are other positive signs,including the emergence of a dynamic civil society, several of whose leaders wemet yesterday. Libyans are increasingly exercising their freedoms ofspeech, press, assembly and association. And there are growing demandsfor greater official transparency and accountability.
But this more open environment also has pushed longstandinglocal conflicts and tensions to the fore. In places like Sabha and Kufra,violent clashes have left scores dead and hundreds more wounded. In theseand other places, the government has yet to gain effective control over armedbrigades, some of whom continue to contribute to a climate of insecurity andwho hold several thousand people in detention in conditions that do not meetinternational standards.
Our discussions of these and other sensitive issues withLibyan officials were frank and respectful, practical andforward-looking. I came away from these discussions, and from my meetingswith those outside of government, with a sense of hope and renewed commitmentto stand by the Libyan government and people as they work to build a betterfuture and overcome the tragic legacy of the Qadhafi years.
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Magda Hassan - 25-07-2012
Bill Kelly Wrote:And Maggie, if most of the Free Syrian Army is defecting, who are the Assad aircraft, helicopters, tanks and artillery shelling? All the foreign mercenaries?Well, yes, for the most part that seems to be born out by the evidence of the passports collected from the dead and testimony of the prisoners. In the videos posted by the FSA it will be noted that many of the people are talking with Arabic accents not from Syria. Some are not talking Arabic at all. Spanish can be heard on the Gaddhafi murder video.
I agree that the Assad government was not beloved universally as is my government and as is your government Bill. There were protests and this resulted in significant political reforms which are pretty difficult to implement under the current circumstances. There have been no steps to implement the demands of the protesters in the US however. Just arrests there. What I see locally in our Syrian community, many of whom came here to get away from the current leader's father, is much support for the government and a total rejection of the invasion by foreigners from various countries seeking to install an Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship and theocracy. There have been large rallies here in support and more organised with people travelling interstate to attend. Under Assad, like Saddam in Iraq there existed a secular tolerance and balance between the various religious and ethnic groups and tribes. All of this is under threat now. Just read any of the Catholic papers and you will see the Christian communities looking to the Syrian government for protection from the foreign troops attacking them. And they do get that protection where possible. Same for the other groups. Moderate imams are being selectively assassinated. Shia communities are being targeted. Alawa communities are being targeted.
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Bill Kelly - 25-07-2012
Magda Hassan Wrote:Bill Kelly Wrote:And Maggie, if most of the Free Syrian Army is defecting, who are the Assad aircraft, helicopters, tanks and artillery shelling? All the foreign mercenaries?Well, yes, for the most part that seems to be born out by the evidence of the passports collected from the dead and testimony of the prisoners. In the videos posted by the FSA it will be noted that many of the people are talking with Arabic accents not from Syria. Some are not talking Arabic at all. Spanish can be heard on the Gaddhafi murder video.
I agree that the Assad government was not beloved universally as is my government and as is your government Bill. There were protests and this resulted in significant political reforms which are pretty difficult to implement under the current circumstances. There have been no steps to implement the demands of the protesters in the US however. Just arrests there. What I see locally in our Syrian community, many of whom came here to get away from the current leader's father, is much support for the government and a total rejection of the invasion by foreigners from various countries seeking to install an Islamic fundamentalist dictatorship and theocracy. There have been large rallies here in support and more organised with people travelling interstate to attend. Under Assad, like Saddam in Iraq there existed a secular tolerance and balance between the various religious and ethnic groups and tribes. All of this is under threat now. Just read any of the Catholic papers and you will see the Christian communities looking to the Syrian government for protection from the foreign troops attacking them. And they do get that protection where possible. Same for the other groups. Moderate imams are being selectively assassinated. Shia communities are being targeted. Alawa communities are being targeted.
While I had studied US-Libya relations since 1993, I knew nothing about Syria until the Arab Spring revolutions began, and I started my blog - Revolutionary Program because I recognized the revolts as a Deep Political Event worth in depth study and analysis. Originally the blog was to be program - describing the participants on both sides, and their roles, and strategies and tactics. It didn't take long however, to see that the dictators were wrong and the revolutionaries were right -and it will take years to determine if they do the right thing - but from my perspective, few people, even the CIA, recognized what was going on in January 2011.
I am still learning about the situations in various countries, and am only knowledgeable about Libya, but it appears that the other countries are not that much different, in that their leaderships are dictators, and one by one they are falling - Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, - Syria and after that Bahrain and on to Saudi Arabia et al. I am not for NATO or CIA or any particular nation or group, but only view the situation as the Arab Spring revolt against dictators and the toll it will take on them. I am just keeping score, though I do support the rebels as opposed to the police states, that I have always opposed.
BK
A Mediterranean Battlefield - Syria - Magda Hassan - 25-07-2012
And I am for the Syrian people too Bill. But Assad looks to have implemented more political reform as the result of the demands of his people than Obama as a result of the demands of his....