New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Printable Version +- Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora) +-- Forum: Deep Politics Forum (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-1.html) +--- Forum: JFK Assassination (https://deeppoliticsforum.com/fora/forum-3.html) +--- Thread: New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy (/thread-6687.html) Pages:
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New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Seamus Coogan - 14-06-2011 Well here it is finally. There's one or two little twinges in it. Mr Farrell had this coming. I can make no apologies really this book is a travesty from start to finish. I still have one or two 'tweaks' in the article that need to be ironed out. But for what its worth the finished product shall not differ to much. http://www.ctka.net/2011/failings_farrell.html Much thanks to CD whom as per usual starts it and finishes it. New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Jan Klimkowski - 14-06-2011 Seamus - thank you for linking your Farrell article on DPF. It contains many good things - not least of which is your analysis of the sources cited by Farrell. Like you, I find the notion that LBJ was a "mastermind" or key sponsor of the JFK assassination truly risible. So, for me, Farrell's core hypothesis - assuming he believes it - fails so dismally that I shan't waste words or breath on it. Many knowledgable researchers have destroyed the "LBJ did it" argument elsewhere on DPF. (Search and ye shall find.) Except it appears that Farrell doesn't agree with the "LBJ did it" hypothesis. Seamus writes: Quote:During the length of the book, Farrell gradually adds the names of the organizations involved, slowly building up to a crescendo on page 203. The list has their involvement coming in at 3 differing levels 1.) executing the murder 2.) framing Oswald and 3.) being in charge of the overall cover up. Borrowing heavily from the long discredited Torbitt Document (discussed in Part II of this review) he names the following suspects in these categories: So, why did Farrell bother writing the thing? Let's scrap that question. I doubt the answer is revealing. I am tempted to call Farrell's "coalescence of interests" book a Bouillabaisse, but I am sure that would be an insult to generations of Provençal sauciers.... I will instead pick out certain elements of Seamus' piece in the hope that we can tease out objects of interest and intrigue. Firstly, Seamus writes, regarding the "Three Tramps": Quote:Their real identities are (drum roll please): Jubelo, Jubela and Jubelum. (I guess it's more exciting than Moe, Curly and Larry). Why? Because Dealey Plaza was selected, not because of it being an excellent place to stage a killing of a head of state (there's too much common sense in that equation). It's because the convergence of the three roads in Dealey Plaza construct a trident, an important Masonic symbol. One of the sources of the idea of Masonic symbolism in the assassination of JFK is James Shelby Downard. See here. Downard was promoted by Feral House and "Adam Parfrey" - which is where I first saw his work. Downard appears to have known a lot about Ku Klux Klan ritual beliefs, and is usually regarded as a sworn enemy of the KKK. Fundamentally, Downard is a spider spinning a web of occult glistening gossamer. His essays on JFK contain as little factual veracity as English auteur Angela Carter's bold literary exploration of the Manson family. In short, the ontological plane on which Downard operates does not recognize the concept of factual authentication. Secondly, Seamus writes, citing Jim DiEugenio, of Clay Shaw and Torbitt: Quote:As has been discussed, DiEugenio also gave an in-depth address at JFK Lancer concerning the use of bad revisionist histories in November 2010 The importance of this is that it establishes a rationale for Torbitt as a disinformation work: namely to cleanse Clay Shaw and CMC/Permindex of CIA connections. That is not to say that the organisation known as the CIA assassinated JFK. Rather it is to argue that individuals and elements with CIA connections were involved in the assassination at multiple levels. Just as individuals and elements with CIA connections were involved in Permindex/CMC. And Permindex/CMC appears to link to Gladio. Seamus writes: Quote:There does appear to be some evidence that Shaw (despite his liberal façade) was himself sympathetic to fascist politics. And Permindex was clearly one of many groups throughout Europe that was a probable cover for the sinister antics surrounding Operation Gladio, which came above board in 1990 via independent European investigations. Permindex certainly did have ties to various right wing groups including former Nazi intelligence operatives. If the BBC ever had a finest moment, it's screening of this amazing Gladio documentary which broke the story worldwide, would take the cake. (http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=16921). The Flammonde analysis of Permindex/CMC is well worth reading in its entirety at the link kindly provided. Flammonde is sketching out Gladio structures 20 years before the operation was officially exposed. Protection of Gladio structures from exposure and investigation would have been vitally important to the operation's sponsors. Torbitt first appeared a year or so after Flammonde. Gladio survived the 60s, 70s and 80s as an active, deadly, unknown, covert operation. So, tentatively, Torbitt may have achieved part of its purpose. This chronology provides a further potential rationale for Torbitt as nugget-rich disinformation - designed to draw attention away from Permindex/CMC's true importance into carefully chosen blind alleys. Seamus continues: Quote:And though Martin Cannon was a divisive figure in his time, I'd take his breakdown of the documents over any endorsement from Farrell's editor and Gemstone' devotee Childress's. (http://www.newsmakingnews.com/mcgemstoneexposedatlast.htm) Martin Cannon's article on Gemstone is indeed a classic of its kind. Seamus - I've also had (largely constructive) dealings with Mr Cannon. Can you expand on why you term him "a divisive figure"? Seamus continues: Quote:Let's see what no originals and multiple versions of a document can mean for credibility. Farrell has been digging himself a hole since the first sentence of his epic literary failure. He hits paydirt at the bottom of page 158. There he states that Kenn Thomas had meticulously assembled the only complete version of the Torbitt Document available. Ten pages later, in the footnotes on page 168, Farrell then brags that the Torbitt Document was correct; there was indeed a pro-German stay behind group being run by NATO. Farrell and Childress are either extremely gullible or in on the con themselves. Thomas's book, predictably called NASA, Nazis and JFK: The Torbitt Document and the JFK Assassination, came out in 1996. The aforementioned Operation Gladio, in which the CIA and NATO were revealed as being heavily involved in Cold War European stay behind fascist groups since the end of WWII, first became public in 1992. In fact, Gladio is mentioned in Jim DiEugenio's book of that year, Destiny Betrayed. (See page 372) Seamus - please can you expand on the paragraph above. I'm not clear quite what you're arguing. Thanks. I will end with a rhetorical question: if LBJ is removed from the title of the book, leaving The Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy: A Coalescence of Interests is the title alone salvageable?...... :pinkelephant: New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Seamus Coogan - 14-06-2011 Well that reply was essentially what one does this kinda thing for Jan. That Adam Parfrey stuff is true gold. Thanks. As for Martin. I had a look around for his writings on the net after I found his skeleton key demolition and there wasn't to much which was a shame. He has a writing style similar to mine (he's pretty aggressive in his subject matter lol-however I have use of some fantastic editors that curb some of my indulgences). I came across people with differing opinions on him. He drew a bit of heat for his look into Alien abductions as an MK Ultra type operation. It's actually something I have found to be highly plausible myself. Sadly, Martin couldn't quite nail it on the head. People like myself found his essay overlong and repetitive with little by the way of evidence offered. Had he taken a slightly less serious tone, it would have been a great speculative piece with good pricks of anecdotal evidence. Sadly, it kind of convoluted itself. Martin then of course came under fire from the 'Aliens did it' crowd. Shame it's a potentially intriguing piece worthy of revisitation. The final piece I agree is a little to wordy and needed to be a little more stark. Essentially what I am saying is that Farrell brags the Torbitt Document predicted the German stay behinds vis a vis Gladio. The problem was of course that Thomas's rendering of the Torbitt document occurred well after Gladio came above board. Farrell was also saying on one hand that Thomas had accumulated all the known evidence and put it together but Thomas is saying someone gave it to him too publish. It seems aas if Farrell cocked up and divulged how Thomas put it all together. There was no 'miraclulous document from thin air'. I hope that clears it up for you. But in clearing it up of course there's more questions. Namely, what is Childress' motivations in all of this if he's prepared to utilise compromised material and then force some poor buggar to endorse Zirbel. New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Jan Klimkowski - 15-06-2011 Seamus Coogan Wrote:Well that reply was essentially what one does this kinda thing for Jan. That Adam Parfrey stuff is true gold. Thanks. Seamus - my pleasure. I always welcome people engaging with my documentaries - especially if it's clear they've actually taken the time to watch the thing. :happyweed: Fwiw - in addition to James Shelby Downard, another major source of hypotheses involving "masonic symbolism" in the assassination of JFK is Robert Anton Wilson. Why do these kooky kats always have three names? Let's ask Francis Ford Coppola. :poke: :gossip: mallprint: Seamus Coogan Wrote:As for Martin. I had a look around for his writings on the net after I found his skeleton key demolition and there wasn't to much which was a shame. He has a writing style similar to mine (he's pretty aggressive in his subject matter lol-however I have use of some fantastic editors that curb some of my indulgences). I came across people with differing opinions on him. He drew a bit of heat for his look into Alien abductions as an MK Ultra type operation. It's actually something I have found to be highly plausible myself. I've used passages from Martin Cannon's unpublished essay "The Controllers" exploring, loosely, alien abduction as MK-ULTRA type operation, as source material in posts I've made here on DPF. See eg post #16 in the thread here. For context, it's worth noting that in 1994, a tenured Harvard Professor, who was very friendly with Thomas "paradigm shift" Kuhn, argued in print and in a BBC2 science documentary, that alien abduction was a real phenenomen. Martin was robust and aggressive in manner. His journey exploring this hypothesis was timely and thorough. He was also a proper researcher. He got access to some of the source files used by John D Marks in his "Search for the Manchurian Candidate" book, and established that Marks went so far, and then stopped. His Gemstone File article that you kindly linked is another example of quality research. He was a researcher with sufficient integrity to call it how it he saw it - even if that call short-circuited any chance of a meaningful payday for months and years of hard slog. Seamus Coogan Wrote:Essentially what I am saying is that Farrell brags the Torbitt Document predicted the German stay behinds vis a vis Gladio. The problem was of course that Thomas's rendering of the Torbitt document occurred well after Gladio came above board. Farrell was also saying on one hand that Thomas had accumulated all the known evidence and put it together but Thomas is saying someone gave it to him too publish. It seems aas if Farrell cocked up and divulged how Thomas put it all together. There was no 'miraclulous document from thin air'. And I assume Zirbel has no knowledge of Gladio. My sense is that Farrell accepted the writing commission from Childress then found specific areas that interested him far more than Zirbel's hypothesis. The result is not a Bouillabaisse, but rather a dog's dinner... New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Seamus Coogan - 15-06-2011 [/QUOTE] And I assume Zirbel has no knowledge of Gladio. My sense is that Farrell accepted the writing commission from Childress then found specific areas that interested him far more than Zirbel's hypothesis. The result is not a Bouillabaisse, but rather a dog's dinner...[/QUOTE] Correct with Gladio. Zirbel wouldn't have a clue. Yeah the reasons why Farrell did as he did were kind of explained by him by John Simkin. Not a Bouilabaisse. Lol it sounds yum never heard of it mate. But I disagree with the dogs dinner by a degree Jan. Farrells book is the other end of the 'dogs dinner' the one you stand in while he wags tail. Yes I've seen some of there stuff lol RE Anton Wilson and co. Havent been impressed. Remind me of Hoffman egads! Speaking of the three named Kooks. I've actually had a few people email me about Peter Dale Scott. It's funny theres some useful stuff that Dale Scott has but sadly he gets very convoluted very quickly and he seems to buy into the 'Deep Political' angle and layers yet acknowledges all the false sponsors that Evica names. In that regard I much prefer Evica. He gets a little complex on it-arguably needlessly so. But ultimately he doesn't piss about when he makes a call and I find GME to be far more solid not kooky at all. PDS seems to cut his cloth to suit his fit. His earlier stuff was quite okay. But no generally speaking Im not a great adherent and I am unsure of his motives truth be told. New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Jan Klimkowski - 16-06-2011 Seamus Coogan Wrote:PDS seems to cut his cloth to suit his fit. His earlier stuff was quite okay. But no generally speaking Im not a great adherent and I am unsure of his motives truth be told. Seamus - I don't agree with your view of Peter Dale Scott. He continues to produce much fine work - eg his ongoing analysis of Continuity of Government mechanisms. Peter Dale Scott is a gifted and insightful researcher. New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Phil Dragoo - 17-06-2011 Seamus You've deconstructed Joseph Farrell like a patient etherized upon a table. What a lot of junk in his opus, a veritable garage sale of discarded items. I perked up at the Zirbel armature premise and followed the indicator to page 67 of my copy wondering who these people are, "Allan Dulles" and "General Cabella (the brother of the Dallas Mayor)", following this trail of D-Con pellets to page 70 How Could a Straw Man from Langley Have Killed Kennedy: And I quote: "The theory of a direct CIA plan to kill Kennedy, with at best only a secondary motive and without any solid links to the actual assassination, is certainly dubious as the explanation for the murder." That line of Zirbel connects well with a line well down in your Part Two: And I quote: "Quite clearly Farrell, Childress and Thomas think the CIA had nothing to do with the JFK case" And I think herein lies the key. As you have at several waypoints indicated Angleton sent out Epstein et al to drop Diana's Golden Apples, so, too, have Zirbel and Farrell and subsequent anyone-but-CIA fetishists presented as a TomTom detour. . . Record rains have produced widespread flood conditions in the western third of the 99 counties of Iowa requiring that many trains and trucks use wideranging alternate tracks and interstates to reach their destination. In like manner have the Robert Blakeys and the Phil Nelsons and their willing handmaidens placed barriers Road Closed on all routes leading to Langley or at least its legendary lions. My grandfather was a 33d degree Mason and you'd never know he was part of a grand design running the world, as he'd only shown me an office floor of fluttering IBM punch cards creating the sound of an acapella Africa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjbpwlqp5Qw E. Howard Hunt's deathbed deflection, loyal Company man to the end. LBJ at the top of the pyramid. A Torbitt Document. 1970. After FBI and CIA had worked so hard to undermine Garrison's case against Shaw, Shaw whom CIA denied any knowledge of, quite like Mission Impossible, this tape will self-destruct in five seconds. Helms asking after "our people down there"--now comes the deflection of the Torbitt Document. Why did Angleton beat the crap out of poor little Yuri I. Nosenko. Wasn't it just because he was going to blow the sham of the Mexico City effort. Epstein badgering the prey-like DeMohrenschildt who begged Bush to call off the vigilantes. I've just finished the notes at the end of Gerald McKnight, Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why, and it's been a pleasure to see the a priori conclusion with its chain of suppressed dispositive evidence. And for all the deflection which has gone before and for that which is to come in this run-up to the fiftieth anniversary, it's well to recall who fell and who remained standing. Hoover had his heart attack in 1972, LBJ his the next year, Nixon fell from Helm's sabotage in 1974, Ford installed Bush as DCI and Rockefeller to investigate CIA, and the boys went down, Hoffa and Giancana in 75, Roselli in 76, Nicoletti and DeMohrenschildt and William Sullivan in 77, Morales in 78. Prior to all that, Johnson the great mastermind folded like an accordion in March 68, the month before a not-Ray gunner got Martin as McCullough the spook checked the vitals, the summer the tall Third Man with Polka Dot and the Crazy Palestinian got Bobby. Not the Mob, not Masons, not UFOs, not Johnson, not Oil Men, not Grays from Alpha Centauri. Who? We'll never know if we rely upon the likes of the "Oxford-educated" Joseph Farell. Thank you for your endurance, Seamus. New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Seamus Coogan - 18-06-2011 Jan Klimkowski Wrote:Seamus Coogan Wrote:PDS seems to cut his cloth to suit his fit. His earlier stuff was quite okay. But no generally speaking Im not a great adherent and I am unsure of his motives truth be told. GME was of a similar vein but more forthright and didn't muck about. His work on Oswald was anything but convoluted. PDS' has an extremely uneven lay out in JFK stuff. Sure he may have some insight into mechanisms of government. But so has Bill Blum, Naomi Klein, Michael Moore and Joel Bakan without the Bullshit! New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Seamus Coogan - 18-06-2011 Phil Dragoo Wrote:Thank you for your endurance, Seamus. You told me about your links to the Masons Phil. I should have used it. Thanks for the kind words. Yes I re-checked and I saw the Dulles misspelling. I hope he reads it lol. Funny you mention Oxford! No man from Oxford would write such shite! Well maybe the standards have slipped. Doug Caddy surprisum surprisum! Thought it a bit harsh on the Ed Forum. But a screwball like him would. I think that if Caddy is backing Farrell. I think Farrell is a disinfo stooge. As CD alluded too. Tom Scully seems a good dude still clinging to the Torbitt Bilge sadly. New CTKA Review: The Failings of Joseph Farrell: A Review of LBJ and the Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy - Jan Klimkowski - 18-06-2011 Seamus Coogan Wrote:Sure he (PDS) may have some insight into mechanisms of government. But so has Bill Blum, Naomi Klein, Michael Moore and Joel Bakan without the Bullshit! Seamus - have you read Peter Dale Scott's work on Continuity of Government, or the international drugs trade? Putting Michael Moore ahead of PDS as a researcher is plain risible. Moore is first and foremost a communicator. |