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Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Jim Hargrove - 06-06-2016
Drew Phipps Wrote:I have heard fairly convincing arguments in support of the idea that drugs have been used (by the CIA) to discredit the peace movement, the Black Power movement, and then some more fantastical arguments concerning operations to discredit popular musicians, rap music, etc... It is not a far stretch from the well-documented CIA MKUltra to CIA discrediting people, with drugs, they think might oppose the government.
Drew,
Your position is that the CIA's MKUltra program existed to prevent American youths from serving in our SE Asian wars????
REALLY???
Jim
Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Lauren Johnson - 06-06-2016
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Lauren,
So, you think Timothy Leary's "Tune in... turn on... drop out" campaign was a CIA operation?
Do you think American youths were turned away from "serving" in Vietnam by CIA-sponsored Timothy Leary? Do you REALLY think Timothy Leary spoke for the CIA? Do you think the CIA wanted to DRUG Americans so they couldn't serve in Vietnam?
Really?
Jim
Jim, welcome to the twilight zone. There are many great threads here on just such topics.
Here is one of my favs: The MK-ULTRA Iceberg.
Yes, Tim Leary was a CIA asset and was part of a much larger program. I suggest you read Don Jeffries book, Hidden History for a great overview.
There were a number of goals in the CIA drug program, but I think the best one was the creation of social conflict amongst generations. Divide and conquer. If you start reading in this area, look for the phrase: strategy of tension.
Kids refusing to serve in Viet Nam was actually a negative side effect that was soon fixed by turning to the all volunteer army. Hope this helps.
Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Jim Hargrove - 06-06-2016
Hi, Lauren,
Haven't read MK-ULTRA Iceberg, but I have read Don's Hidden History, and it's a terrific book. But it covers much of American history from the Kennedy assassination to modern times, and there are a few things I was far from sold on. I don't believe the Clinton "body count" business for example. My opinion is that he was less of a serial killer than most U.S. presidents.
The evidence clearly shows that the CIA was intimately involved in the drug business (from the MK-ULTRA days to the Contra-supporting crack cocaine epidemic and no doubt beyond that), but that does not mean everyone involved in the drug culture over the years was directly associated with the CIA.
All the charges of direct contact between Timothy Leary and the CIA in Don's book are sourced to author Walter Bowart. Admittedly, I haven't read Bowart's Operation Mind Control, but the vague CIA documents Don described prove little, at least to me, and I would want corroboration of the Leary confessions supposedly made near the end of his life directly to Bowart.
CIA personnel who knew about LSD surely realized that it is not a pacifying drug. Leary's campaign at least appeared to be antithetical to the Warfare State, and profoundly influenced the anti-war effort. Nixon called Leary "the most dangerous man in America," or something close to that. If this was the best the brilliant minds who scripted the Kennedy assassination could come up with, they surely indulged in way too much of their own products.
Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Albert Doyle - 06-06-2016
Intel experiments on soldiers showed LSD caused them to not want to fight. They no longer showed interest in military conformity after using it.
LSD was the spiritual Viagra of the 60's. Whether Leary was actively involved with CIA or not he had a genuine interest in the mind dimension of the drug.
Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Lauren Johnson - 07-06-2016
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Lauren,
So, you think Timothy Leary's "Tune in... turn on... drop out" campaign was a CIA operation?
Do you think American youths were turned away from "serving" in Vietnam by CIA-sponsored Timothy Leary? Do you REALLY think Timothy Leary spoke for the CIA? Do you think the CIA wanted to DRUG Americans so they couldn't serve in Vietnam?
Really?
Jim
Go to the video (23:00) in the first post here and watch Leary bragging it up with his fellow CIA buddies calling their organization in the LA area as a "cell." They are laughing about how they got it all started in LA.
Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Drew Phipps - 07-06-2016
You misunderstand. The drug part of MKUltra was the CIA drugging people for no other apparent reason than to test the effect of the drugs upon unsuspecting people. It became apparent that the drugs did not work well for the intended purpose. However, the CIA could easily and logically then have decided that drugs might still be an effective way of discrediting, silencing, or imprisoning individuals, or groups of individuals, who were bent on, or already engaged in, "anti-government" activities.
If you believe that there are government agents masquerading as JFK researchers (a frequent recurring theme on this and other JFK forums) in order to spread disinformation and distrust, how can you fail to see that government agents could masquerade as drug pushers? (By the way, I assure you that the "drug pusher masquerade" happens, as an undercover law enforcement tactic, all across the USA on a daily basis.)
Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Jim Hargrove - 07-06-2016
Drew-- I don't question that some agents are above doing ANYTHING to promote their agendas, but I remember the Leary media appearance. I was pretty young, but I remember what a peacenik and anti-war message Leary promoted. That doesn't sound like the same mold of CIA agents who so wanted an invasion of Cuba they were willing to assassinate their own president in order to provoke it.
Lauren-- So this clip supposedly shows four or five CIA agents, including Leary, mugging into a movie camera and bragging about their illegal drug activities? Perhaps we can find a similar clip of agents bragging about how they set up the assassination of JFK. It seems equally preposterous.
Albert-- Whatever Intel agents may have thought about LSD making soldiers not want to fight, the drug certainly didn't do much to pacify the Manson family, did it?
Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Albert Doyle - 07-06-2016
Jim Hargrove Wrote:Albert-- Whatever Intel agents may have thought about LSD making soldiers not want to fight, the drug certainly didn't do much to pacify the Manson family, did it?
It is so powerful it creates a sort of magical thinking dementia that makes people susceptible to mind control. Disassociation where the split mind can be controlled.
Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Mark A. O'Blazney - 07-06-2016
Mark A. O'Blazney Wrote:Jim DiEugenio Wrote:So then, did Janney ask you to work on the book with him?
I mean did he know all this stuff about Damore getting the idea from Larry King appearance, that right wing nut Lucianna Goldberg fronting money for an anti Kennedy screed, and all these other people backing off, and Damore's sources being little more than bull sessions?
Did you talk to him about it before he started?
Look, Jim…….. Leo was a 'media slut', OK ? There's no other nice way to put it. Oh, he was so proud that Larry King added another half-hour to his show for more Q & A's concerning 'Senatorial Privilege'……… never been done before, said he. And at the time, his good friend, Dominick Dunne was trying to help him shop his yet-unwritten "Burden of Guilt" around Hollywood (Dunne's brother, John, was a screenwriter, married to Joan Didion).
With regards to my giving Peter any assistance in writing Mary's Mosaic (other than being interviewed)………. none. He just swooped down, offered me some dough for everything, and left. He had his 'award-winning' ace researchers, so didn't need me. You can pinpoint approximately when that occurred by his posts at the Ed. Forum.
Six years or so later, Skyhorse publishes Mary's Mosaic. It would be delicious to know why Trine Day was his first choice, and why he ended up at Skyhorse. Perhaps he didn't like the Company he had to keep with over there, i.e., Judyth Vary Baker et. al.
But then, Peter Janney is STILL a 'senior member' of Ralph Cinque's OIC, so worrying about what Company he keeps with is a moot point.
Bytheway, in a shameless act of self-promotion, I am tentatively set to be on Rob Clark's radio show sometime next month while in country for business. Guess who will be on the other end? That's right…… the Buda pest himself. Should be a real hum-dinger, not unlike the Kaiser-Hemming insultfest from a few days ago. Hope there will be some callers with questions. So many people have suffered because of Cinque. I mean, telling Mary Ann Moorman Krahmer she didn't take her photo is bordering on stalking. She should have sued him.
Hope this helps, Jim. Remember, this topic is what got you and Mr. Scully "erased" at the Ed Forum. Where's Mitchell ?
This tale is far from over, I assure you. Lord knows I've spent enough time on it…….. right, Jimmy D ?
Mary's Mosaic: Entering Peter Janney's World of Fantasy - Magda Hassan - 08-06-2016
Jim Hargrove Wrote:I don't believe the Clinton "body count" business for example. My opinion is that he was less of a serial killer than most U.S. presidents.
I think there might be some Yugoslavs, Haitians, Somalis, Afghanis and Iraqis who might beg to differ.
Jim Hargrove Wrote:The evidence clearly shows that the CIA was intimately involved in the drug business (from the MK-ULTRA days to the Contra-supporting crack cocaine epidemic and no doubt beyond that), but that does not mean everyone involved in the drug culture over the years was directly associated with the CIA.
Drug manufacturing of this type is done on a (deep) state level and they don't tolerate freelancers messing up their business model. Even other nation states.