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John Kenneth Galbraith: A Hero in our Time
#26
Crackpot, troll, drunk-like--I'll add that to the list of things I have been called along with fabulist, hare-brain, libel artist…

The rebuttal by Mr. Dagosto, though brilliant in many ways, is at its core kind of confusing for the following reasons:


  1. Mr. Dagosto seems to be denying that General Norstad had accomplished anything at all by getting the IRBMs in Europe. Having read a biography of General Norstad, it seems clear that Norstad thought he had accomplished something by getting the missiles there. He clearly didn't think it was only a PR job. We have to give Norstad more credit than that!
  2. Per Mr. Dagosto, JFK had requested the Jupiter missiles be removed, but that was refused. What am I missing? That fact supports my argument, not the reverse! (I was unaware of this).
  3. His prior posting says "The deployed missiles were under command of 36ª Aerobrigata Interdizione Strategica (36th Strategic Interdiction Air Squadron, Italian Air Force) at Gioia del Colle Air Base, Italy. That doesn't sound like they were controlled by the USAF. Which is it?
  4. Mr. Dagosto demands proof that NATO voted to deploy the missiles. It's clear that General Norstad viewed the missiles as NATO missiles. There isn't any real question as to whether NATO wanted to become "The Fourth Nuclear Power." That was General Norstad's often-used phrase. And the missiles were stationed in two NATO countries. NATO, as an entity, obviously had to approve all of this. Norstad was the NATO SACEUR. Is there any question as to whether NATO approved of the Jupiter missiles in Europe? Is there any question that NATO desired the missiles? It's pretty much proven by the circumstances, even without an actual document IMHO. There may be such a document or evidence of a vote, but that's beside the point. NATO was ruled by consensus, so their apparently was a consensus on the missiles (at least under NATO legal process).
  5. I think every issue which I have mentioned regarding the Jupiter Missiles and the Cuban Missile Crisis is reasonable and sensible. Mr. Dagosto states that JFK had requested the missiles be removed. He was refused. How is it "silly" to suggest that Germany or NATO might have kept the missiles against JFK's wishes? Per Mr. Dagosto, that actually happened (which I didn't actually know about myself). My opinions on this IMHO may be subject to debate, but I don't see how they are silly. And, by the way, I don't drink (at all) either.
  6. Although Germany had agreed to renounce nuclear weapons, the Germans under both Hitler and Adenauer didn't have the best record for living up to legal agreements. Hitler abrogated the Versailles Treaty. West Germany agreed to de-Nazify (which they didn't really do). They enacted an arbitrary 15 year statute of limitations to protect their own war criminals. They even re-defined "murder" to exclude war crime murder done under orders. When it comes to an issue like nuclear annihilation, wouldn't it be pretty easy to change your laws to prevent being incinerated? I would do it. Wouldn't anybody? Besides, they controlled NATO, so they controlled the NATO missiles. Same difference.
  7. Germany was in the middle of this problem for one reason: Germany controlled NATO. They provided the majority of troops and, in return, they demanded controland they got it. Ex-Nazi Adolf Heusinger was the "permanent" chairman of the NATO military committee which was a three-year appointment (and made him the military top dog in NATO). DeGaulle tried in vain to put control back under the U.S., the U.K. and France, but failed. So DeGaulle pulled France out. The Secretary-General of NATO at the time was Dirk Stekker of the Netherlands. The command of the troops in central Europe was under General Hans Speidel, another former Hitler General. Secretary-General Stekker was a close personal friend of Adenauer. Anyone who was not aware of these facts should do more research on NATO You will find it all to be true as well as very interesting. It was a myth that the US controlled NATO because the SACEUR was always to be an American. This was a phony fig leaf and a myth.
  8. The Soviet invasion of Cuba in 1962 was probably the biggest single amphibious operation in world history (especially considering the distance involved). How could the Japanese move their entire fleet almost 2000 miles across the North Pacific and FDR didn't know about it? Answer: FDR knew about it. So how could the USSR pull off the biggest amphibious operation in world history (certainly by number of ships, submarines and distance) and JFK didn't find out about it? Answer: See the above reference to FDR. The USSR moved enough men and equipment to totally defend Cuba. That's a heck of an operation in anybody's book. The book Defcon 2 makes all this clear. A must-read!
  9. I don't suggest that JFK and Khrushchev secretly planned and discussed the Cuban Missile Crisis in advance. Rather, they probably instinctively allowed it to develop as the path of least resistance to solve their mutual problem of NATO, Germany and nukes.
  10. The argument by Mr. Dagosto boils down to (a) General Norstad was a phony, (b) the Jupiter missiles were irrelevant (even though Soviet IRBM's in Cuba were very relevant) and © the Germans were implicitly completely trustworthy, law abiding, not in control of NATO and not controlled at all by ex-Nazis. Also, Mr. Dagosto doesn't believe in jumping to conclusions. Even IMHO obvious conclusions.

Sadly, this (IMHO) somewhat naïve view of the Cuban Missile Crisis as well as NATO is all too common because Americans have been kept in the dark and presented with many, many myths surrounding all of these really bad historical problems.

Regarding NATO, these problems may well still exist. I'm not up to date on that. I would like to be at some point in the future.

James Lateer

ps. Trump has issues with NATO, too!
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John Kenneth Galbraith: A Hero in our Time - by James Lateer - 21-11-2018, 03:24 AM

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