22-01-2010, 07:56 AM
[quote name='Jack White' date='Jan 22 2010, 06:41 AM' post='180067']
[quote name='Pat Speer' post='179986' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:20 AM'][quote name='William Kelly' post='179982' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:07 AM']Another pet peeve I have is the false association by many in academia and the media of all JFK assassination researchers with persons who don't believe we landed on the moon six times (from 1969-1972); or with persons who believe that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were really 'controlled demolitions' set off by the government, and were not caused by fanatics flying airplanes into buildings.
I think the principal lesson of the JFK assassination is that we should not defer to arguments about major historical events (such as assassinations, and how wars begin) based on authority—we should study the primary evidence ourselves and reach our own conclusions. If people don't learn to do a better job of this in the United States, our democracy will remain in peril, and our society will continue to just 'muddle through,' rather than excel in tackling its many challenges.[/quote]
Thanks, Bill, it's most enlightening. I wonder if Horne was thinking of anyone we know when he wrote the paragraphs above.
[/quote]
Horne's specialty is JFK, not 911 nor Apollo nor Oklahoma City etcetcetc.
On these issues he is as uninformed as the average person.
Jack
[/quote]
My list of pet peeves would begin with the identical short list cited by Doug Horne regarding the Lunar Landing "Loonatics", the 9/11 conspiracy buffs who could find "nanothermite" in a bowl of Rice Krispies and swear it was a government conspiracy, the Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy nuts and others of their ilk. Certainly they do more harm than good to our cause, attempting to "prove" that since 9/11, Apollo and OK Murrah were all "massive all-pervasive US government conspiracies" then it adds weight to their theory that JFK was a "massive all-pervasive US government conspiracy", attempting to indict even innocent bystanders like Senator Claiborne Pell whose entire family was very close to the entire Kennedy clan, Frank Wisner who was in a hospital, incapacitated and bedridden during the entire "plot" and the execution and others in that category. And of course, they will argue until they are blue in the face that Wisner could have run the plot via phone just as well.
I would also include, in a second category, people whom I will call the "Kitchen Sink" types who also want to draw in as many non-US Gov affiliated participants in the JFK Assn as alleged "US Gov Agents" in an attempt to taint and bolster their attempt to widen the breadth of the plot in order to further indict "our Government" in the events in Dealey Plaza. Without mentioning names, these "Kitchen Sink" types are very quick to characterize people like Guy Banister as an "active ONI agent" or as a "covert CIA agent" when they were never part of either group. Yet they persist despite the evidence presented to them. Or they might insist for 10-20 years consecutively that a pipsqueak like David Ferrie was in Winnipeg, that he was a CIA agent and that therefore this is convincing evidence that dozens of people in the CIA were involved in the JFK plot even though a newspaper article in the Cleveland Plains Dealer finally burst their artifice and their fragile little bubble. Or other "Kitchen Sinkers", one person in particular, might boldly and blatantly state that "Wickliffe Draper" had nothing to do with the JFK Assn despite reams of documents released from the Miss Sov Comm and reams of testimony from Mary Ferrell's "best source", Roy Hargraves who was hired as an expert by Oliver Stone for JFK. This same "Kitchen Sinker" also maintained that just because a beneficiary of funding to take care of food and housing, provided years earlier from an alleged "CIA front foundation" was later vaguely associated with the JFK plot, this is inscrutable evidence of CIA involvement even though a person like Nathaniel Weyl offered testimony to the contrary regarding the attitude of Cuban exiles towards any more joint CIA projects. And this person even interviewed Nathaniel Weyl himself and reached these conclusions despite Weyl's generous candor on the topic of Operation Red Cross. This same person still insists that Operation Red Cross was 100% CIA based, and that the perps eventually moved on to the JFK hit, But when he is confronted with the evidence that Red Cross was an operation done by James Eastland, Wiliam Pawley, Robert Morris and even Nathaniel Weyl himself, for the sole benefit of Barry Goldwater and the Far Right Wing, he is not so willing to tie Operation Red Cross participants into the JFK hit because it would be yet antoher example of his carefully constructed subterfuges being blown out of the water, yet again. The same applies to those who are willing to tie WACL into the JFK hit as long as you bundle the CIA in with WACL. When the CIA links to WACL are destroyed due to the fact that Roger Pearson and Elmore Greaves, former US contingent leaders in WACL, were identified as Pioneer Fund and Wickliffe Draper cronies, then all of a sudden WACL loses importance within their delusional constructs.
It is very easy to shrug off or laugh off the rantings of the "loonatics", the "nanothermiters" and the "OK fertilizer bombers" but not so easy to see through the subterfuges of either the head "Kitchen Sinker", Mr. COPA-cabana who was directly involved with all of these patently obvious ruses cited above, or his legion of willing sycophants and toadies.
What is the purpose of floating all of these "false sponsor" theories? So that the real perps can go on their merry way, scot free and as non suspects.
So who has done more to impair the honest attempts to find out who really killed JFK? Mr. "White" Washer, Mr. "No-no" nanothermite or Mr. "COPA" Cabana? I think that title belongs to Mr. COPA Cabana, because no one takes either Mr. "White" Washer, Mr. "No-no" nanothermite seriously anymore. Are they all to be considered "anarchistic?" Yes. Are they all "obstructionists" and "illusionists" and "disinfo artists" as well? Absolutely.
Were you drawn in by any of these guys? Probably. Reach your own conclusions but as for me, they are all "persona non grata" forever more.
[quote name='Pat Speer' post='179986' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:20 AM'][quote name='William Kelly' post='179982' date='Jan 21 2010, 08:07 AM']Another pet peeve I have is the false association by many in academia and the media of all JFK assassination researchers with persons who don't believe we landed on the moon six times (from 1969-1972); or with persons who believe that the 9/11 terrorist attacks were really 'controlled demolitions' set off by the government, and were not caused by fanatics flying airplanes into buildings.
I think the principal lesson of the JFK assassination is that we should not defer to arguments about major historical events (such as assassinations, and how wars begin) based on authority—we should study the primary evidence ourselves and reach our own conclusions. If people don't learn to do a better job of this in the United States, our democracy will remain in peril, and our society will continue to just 'muddle through,' rather than excel in tackling its many challenges.[/quote]
Thanks, Bill, it's most enlightening. I wonder if Horne was thinking of anyone we know when he wrote the paragraphs above.
[/quote]
Horne's specialty is JFK, not 911 nor Apollo nor Oklahoma City etcetcetc.
On these issues he is as uninformed as the average person.
Jack
[/quote]
My list of pet peeves would begin with the identical short list cited by Doug Horne regarding the Lunar Landing "Loonatics", the 9/11 conspiracy buffs who could find "nanothermite" in a bowl of Rice Krispies and swear it was a government conspiracy, the Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy nuts and others of their ilk. Certainly they do more harm than good to our cause, attempting to "prove" that since 9/11, Apollo and OK Murrah were all "massive all-pervasive US government conspiracies" then it adds weight to their theory that JFK was a "massive all-pervasive US government conspiracy", attempting to indict even innocent bystanders like Senator Claiborne Pell whose entire family was very close to the entire Kennedy clan, Frank Wisner who was in a hospital, incapacitated and bedridden during the entire "plot" and the execution and others in that category. And of course, they will argue until they are blue in the face that Wisner could have run the plot via phone just as well.
I would also include, in a second category, people whom I will call the "Kitchen Sink" types who also want to draw in as many non-US Gov affiliated participants in the JFK Assn as alleged "US Gov Agents" in an attempt to taint and bolster their attempt to widen the breadth of the plot in order to further indict "our Government" in the events in Dealey Plaza. Without mentioning names, these "Kitchen Sink" types are very quick to characterize people like Guy Banister as an "active ONI agent" or as a "covert CIA agent" when they were never part of either group. Yet they persist despite the evidence presented to them. Or they might insist for 10-20 years consecutively that a pipsqueak like David Ferrie was in Winnipeg, that he was a CIA agent and that therefore this is convincing evidence that dozens of people in the CIA were involved in the JFK plot even though a newspaper article in the Cleveland Plains Dealer finally burst their artifice and their fragile little bubble. Or other "Kitchen Sinkers", one person in particular, might boldly and blatantly state that "Wickliffe Draper" had nothing to do with the JFK Assn despite reams of documents released from the Miss Sov Comm and reams of testimony from Mary Ferrell's "best source", Roy Hargraves who was hired as an expert by Oliver Stone for JFK. This same "Kitchen Sinker" also maintained that just because a beneficiary of funding to take care of food and housing, provided years earlier from an alleged "CIA front foundation" was later vaguely associated with the JFK plot, this is inscrutable evidence of CIA involvement even though a person like Nathaniel Weyl offered testimony to the contrary regarding the attitude of Cuban exiles towards any more joint CIA projects. And this person even interviewed Nathaniel Weyl himself and reached these conclusions despite Weyl's generous candor on the topic of Operation Red Cross. This same person still insists that Operation Red Cross was 100% CIA based, and that the perps eventually moved on to the JFK hit, But when he is confronted with the evidence that Red Cross was an operation done by James Eastland, Wiliam Pawley, Robert Morris and even Nathaniel Weyl himself, for the sole benefit of Barry Goldwater and the Far Right Wing, he is not so willing to tie Operation Red Cross participants into the JFK hit because it would be yet antoher example of his carefully constructed subterfuges being blown out of the water, yet again. The same applies to those who are willing to tie WACL into the JFK hit as long as you bundle the CIA in with WACL. When the CIA links to WACL are destroyed due to the fact that Roger Pearson and Elmore Greaves, former US contingent leaders in WACL, were identified as Pioneer Fund and Wickliffe Draper cronies, then all of a sudden WACL loses importance within their delusional constructs.
It is very easy to shrug off or laugh off the rantings of the "loonatics", the "nanothermiters" and the "OK fertilizer bombers" but not so easy to see through the subterfuges of either the head "Kitchen Sinker", Mr. COPA-cabana who was directly involved with all of these patently obvious ruses cited above, or his legion of willing sycophants and toadies.
What is the purpose of floating all of these "false sponsor" theories? So that the real perps can go on their merry way, scot free and as non suspects.
So who has done more to impair the honest attempts to find out who really killed JFK? Mr. "White" Washer, Mr. "No-no" nanothermite or Mr. "COPA" Cabana? I think that title belongs to Mr. COPA Cabana, because no one takes either Mr. "White" Washer, Mr. "No-no" nanothermite seriously anymore. Are they all to be considered "anarchistic?" Yes. Are they all "obstructionists" and "illusionists" and "disinfo artists" as well? Absolutely.
Were you drawn in by any of these guys? Probably. Reach your own conclusions but as for me, they are all "persona non grata" forever more.
:evil: :rock: :pcguru: 
Amazon will be selling my print-on-demand paperback manuscript at this site within a few days. Volume 1 is 120 pages in length and covers The Manchurian Candidate by Richard Condon, The Winnipeg Airport Incident with Richard Giesbrecht, Anastase Vonsiatsky, THE Manchurian Candidate and Wickliffe Draper and The Pioneer Fund.
https://www.createspace.com/3423237
Amazon will be selling my print-on-demand paperback manuscript at this site within a few days. Volume 1 is 120 pages in length and covers The Manchurian Candidate by Richard Condon, The Winnipeg Airport Incident with Richard Giesbrecht, Anastase Vonsiatsky, THE Manchurian Candidate and Wickliffe Draper and The Pioneer Fund.
https://www.createspace.com/3423237