25-03-2010, 12:49 AM
JUDYTH REPLIES TO JACK (IN PART):
ABOUT THOSE LATE NIGHT PHONE CALLS:
I also noted that your info said the washateria closed at midnight. As I recall JVB's claim, it was
said to be a 24-hour place, and that the phone calls were often after midnight.
==I NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING. I SAID PEOPLE WERE REPORTING THAT LEE NEVER LEFT HIS BOARDING HOUSE ROOM.
I ALSO HAVE PLENTY TO SAY ABOUT THE LAUNDRY. THAT WAS AN EXCUSE TO BE 'OUT'==
WHY? LEE WAS A CAREFUL MAN WITH MONEY. RUTH PAINE TESTIFIED THAT SHE WASHED LEE OSWALD'S CLOTHES. SHE MENTIONS THEY FOLDED CLOTHES THE NIGHT OF THE 21ST -- OSWALD FAMILY STUFF AND HER OWN, WE ASSUME, AS SHE MENTIONS MARINA FOLDING CLOTHES, AND THERE WERE OF COURSE FABRIC DIAPERS.
I HAVE MORE TO SAY, BUT WHY IS LEE OSWALD OUT A MIDNIGHT DOING LAUNDRY WHEN HE CAN GET IT DONE FREE AT PAINES? WHY IS HE OUT A MIDNIGHT INSTEAD OF AT 7 OR 8 OR 9? HE HAS TO LEAVE FOR WORK AT ABOUT 7:30, HAS TO CROSS THAT LONG BRIDGE, TO GET TO WORK -- HAS TO CATCH A BUS TO GE THERE -- HAS TO EAT BREAKFAST BEFORE THAT...PACK HIS LUNCH -- HE ALWAYS PACKED A LUNCH -- SO WHY IS HE OUT SO LATE?
I SAID WE TALKED THE NIGHT OF THE 20TH TO EARLY THE 21ST BY PHONE
FROM ABOUT 11:30 OR SO TO ABOUT 1:00, MAYBE A LITTLE LONGER, LEE'S TIME. THIS IS NOT THAT FAR FROM THE TIME FRAME REPORTED BY THE JANITOR. IF THE PLACE CLOSED AT MIDNIGHT AND HE WAS ASKED TO LEAVE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HALF AN HOUR IF THE PAYPHONE WAS LOCATED OUTSIDE. I COULD HEAR CARS PASSING AND THOUGHT HE WAS CALLING MAYBE FROM NEAR A CONVENIENCE STORE. AS FOR ME, I HAD NO WATCH,BUT LEFT OUR APARTMENT AND WENT TO A SEVEN-ELEVEN A FEW BLOCKS AWAY AND WAITED...IN A PHONE BOOTH.
I DIDN'T THINK MY ESTIMATE COULD BE OFF BY SO MUCH AS HALF AN HOUR, BUT IT COULD.
MY HUSBAND WAS STUDYING FOR HIS GRE [Graduate Record Exam] AND AN ENGLISH EXAM AT THE UNIVERSITY LIBRARY. THE LIBRARY WAS OPEN EXTRA HOURS DURING EXAM TIMES, ON TRIMESTER SYSTEM. IT WAS OPEN UNTIL 3 AM AND I WAS HOME ABOUT AN HOUR OR SO, IN BED BUT UNABLE TO SLEEP.
AS FOR THE MAFIA BETTING LINE, WE HAVE NEWSPAPER ARTICLES ABOUT A MASSIVE BETTING RING BEING UNCOVERED...
HERE WAS ONE IN 1957, SOON AFTER THE APPALACHIA MAFIA ROUNDUP::
"About two weeks after that raid, federal agents broke up a Terre Haute, Ind., gambling operation that handled as much as $10 million in bets during a 10-week period. A federal grand jury was convened to investigate the gambling operation. More than 170 people nationwide were subpoenaed, and Ryan was one of them. The investigation uncovered a nationwide telephone betting system that had wagers on everything from college and professional football to the World Series. Bets on single games were as high as $10,000."
http://www.haciendahotsprings.com/RayRyan.htm
THIS 1964 BOOK--MENTIONS MAFIA BETTING LINES...
Organized Crime / U.S.
...There's an entire chain of mini-conspiracies, ... It's about Mafia influence in U.S. business: trucking, garbage, the meat industry, ...This book also offers an introduction to the world of betting lines, odds makers and ...
Montreal: Pocket Books, 1964. 241 pages.
WE HAD ACCESS TO A MAFIA HORSE RACE BETTING LINE WITH SOME SPECIAL PHONE NUMBERS. AS ONE RESEARCHER WHO INVESTIGATED ME (AND THEN BECAME A SUPPORTER) OBSERVED, AFTER TRACING THE PHONE LINE ROUTES, IN NEWSPAPER ARTICLES FROM 1964-1965, "MAYBE THE FBI DIDN'T HEAR THEM TALKING, BUT THE MAFIA COULD." THAT WAS SOMETHING WE'D NEVER CONSIDERED...SO I GUESS MONK IS RIGHT ABOUT 'WISDOM' AFTER ALL....
JVB
Ian Griggs wrote an article called "Kill That Myth!" that appeared in Fair Play Magazine, Fair Play Issue #25, Nov-Dec 1998; it included this information:
CE 3000 is an FBI report of an interview with Leslie Lawson, the owner and manager of Gray's Cleaners, 1209 Eldorado, Oak Cliff on 5th December 1963. Although not stated in the interview notes, that location is only a hundred yards from Oswald's rooming house. Lawson stated that 'he has seen Lee Harvey Oswald on one particular occasion that he can recall and possibly on other occasions which he could not specifically recall.' Mr Lawson then said that approximately a month earlier, Lee Harvey Oswald had entered his cleaning establishment and handed in a tie, white shirt and black pair of trousers for cleaning. Two days later, when Oswald called to collect these items, he had been charged $1.25 and had complained about being charged 25 cents for the cleaning of his tie.
Lawson also stated that he had seen Oswald on several occasions at Sleight's Speed Wash, 1101 North Beckley. This establishment had, in fact, changed its name to Reno's Speed Wash in August 1963. A former Reno's employee, Joseph Johnson, was interviewed by the FBI on 28th July 1964 and stated that on the evening of 20th or 21st November 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald was 'washing laundry at Reno's Speed Wash.' Oswald, he said, remained there, reading magazines, until midnight. (CE 3001)
CE3000 can be seen here:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol26_0275b.htm
CE3001 can be seen here:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol26_0276b.htm
CE3001 does not include the interview of Joe Johnson, but in it, the owner of the laundromat names him as an employee of the laundromat at the time.
CE3009 is the one that actually contains info about the interview with Johnson. It can be seen here:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol26_0285a.htm
Johnson, the janitor, worked from 7pm til midnight and reported Oswald was there doing laundry on either the night of the 20th or 21st of November ... he says Oswald did not converse with anyone and sat reading magazines until midnight, when "the merchant patrolman" asked Oswald to leave as the laundromat was closing.
The laundromat, being at 1101 N. Beckley, would, of course, be in the next block and on the other side of the street from O's rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley.
Bests,
Barb :-)
ABOUT THOSE LATE NIGHT PHONE CALLS:
I also noted that your info said the washateria closed at midnight. As I recall JVB's claim, it was
said to be a 24-hour place, and that the phone calls were often after midnight.
==I NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING. I SAID PEOPLE WERE REPORTING THAT LEE NEVER LEFT HIS BOARDING HOUSE ROOM.
I ALSO HAVE PLENTY TO SAY ABOUT THE LAUNDRY. THAT WAS AN EXCUSE TO BE 'OUT'==
WHY? LEE WAS A CAREFUL MAN WITH MONEY. RUTH PAINE TESTIFIED THAT SHE WASHED LEE OSWALD'S CLOTHES. SHE MENTIONS THEY FOLDED CLOTHES THE NIGHT OF THE 21ST -- OSWALD FAMILY STUFF AND HER OWN, WE ASSUME, AS SHE MENTIONS MARINA FOLDING CLOTHES, AND THERE WERE OF COURSE FABRIC DIAPERS.
I HAVE MORE TO SAY, BUT WHY IS LEE OSWALD OUT A MIDNIGHT DOING LAUNDRY WHEN HE CAN GET IT DONE FREE AT PAINES? WHY IS HE OUT A MIDNIGHT INSTEAD OF AT 7 OR 8 OR 9? HE HAS TO LEAVE FOR WORK AT ABOUT 7:30, HAS TO CROSS THAT LONG BRIDGE, TO GET TO WORK -- HAS TO CATCH A BUS TO GE THERE -- HAS TO EAT BREAKFAST BEFORE THAT...PACK HIS LUNCH -- HE ALWAYS PACKED A LUNCH -- SO WHY IS HE OUT SO LATE?
I SAID WE TALKED THE NIGHT OF THE 20TH TO EARLY THE 21ST BY PHONE
FROM ABOUT 11:30 OR SO TO ABOUT 1:00, MAYBE A LITTLE LONGER, LEE'S TIME. THIS IS NOT THAT FAR FROM THE TIME FRAME REPORTED BY THE JANITOR. IF THE PLACE CLOSED AT MIDNIGHT AND HE WAS ASKED TO LEAVE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HALF AN HOUR IF THE PAYPHONE WAS LOCATED OUTSIDE. I COULD HEAR CARS PASSING AND THOUGHT HE WAS CALLING MAYBE FROM NEAR A CONVENIENCE STORE. AS FOR ME, I HAD NO WATCH,BUT LEFT OUR APARTMENT AND WENT TO A SEVEN-ELEVEN A FEW BLOCKS AWAY AND WAITED...IN A PHONE BOOTH.
I DIDN'T THINK MY ESTIMATE COULD BE OFF BY SO MUCH AS HALF AN HOUR, BUT IT COULD.
MY HUSBAND WAS STUDYING FOR HIS GRE [Graduate Record Exam] AND AN ENGLISH EXAM AT THE UNIVERSITY LIBRARY. THE LIBRARY WAS OPEN EXTRA HOURS DURING EXAM TIMES, ON TRIMESTER SYSTEM. IT WAS OPEN UNTIL 3 AM AND I WAS HOME ABOUT AN HOUR OR SO, IN BED BUT UNABLE TO SLEEP.
AS FOR THE MAFIA BETTING LINE, WE HAVE NEWSPAPER ARTICLES ABOUT A MASSIVE BETTING RING BEING UNCOVERED...
HERE WAS ONE IN 1957, SOON AFTER THE APPALACHIA MAFIA ROUNDUP::
"About two weeks after that raid, federal agents broke up a Terre Haute, Ind., gambling operation that handled as much as $10 million in bets during a 10-week period. A federal grand jury was convened to investigate the gambling operation. More than 170 people nationwide were subpoenaed, and Ryan was one of them. The investigation uncovered a nationwide telephone betting system that had wagers on everything from college and professional football to the World Series. Bets on single games were as high as $10,000."
http://www.haciendahotsprings.com/RayRyan.htm
THIS 1964 BOOK--MENTIONS MAFIA BETTING LINES...
Organized Crime / U.S.
...There's an entire chain of mini-conspiracies, ... It's about Mafia influence in U.S. business: trucking, garbage, the meat industry, ...This book also offers an introduction to the world of betting lines, odds makers and ...
Montreal: Pocket Books, 1964. 241 pages.
WE HAD ACCESS TO A MAFIA HORSE RACE BETTING LINE WITH SOME SPECIAL PHONE NUMBERS. AS ONE RESEARCHER WHO INVESTIGATED ME (AND THEN BECAME A SUPPORTER) OBSERVED, AFTER TRACING THE PHONE LINE ROUTES, IN NEWSPAPER ARTICLES FROM 1964-1965, "MAYBE THE FBI DIDN'T HEAR THEM TALKING, BUT THE MAFIA COULD." THAT WAS SOMETHING WE'D NEVER CONSIDERED...SO I GUESS MONK IS RIGHT ABOUT 'WISDOM' AFTER ALL....
JVB
Quote:[quote name='Jack White' post='187712' date='Mar 24 2010, 08:41 PM']
Thanks for the laundromat information. I had never seen that. As I recall from the DellaRosa forum,
some researcher had researched a possible laundromat and could find none. I cannot remember
the name of the researcher who said there was no laundromat.
I recall that years later when I finally checked out Beckley Street in person, there was a gas station
across from the 1026 rooming house...and no signs of a washateria; the rest was residential.
Perhaps the laundromat was converted later to a gas station. I remember looking on both
Beckley and Zang for a washateria, and could find none...but that was many years later, so it
could have closed.
I also noted that your info said the washateria closed at midnight. As I recall JVB's claim, it was
said to be a 24-hour place, and that the phone calls were often after midnight.
Also, the claim is that somehow a mafia phone line was patched into the pay phone. I cannot
imagine this happening without the knowledge of Southwestern Bell.
Thanks.
Jack
[quote name='Barb Junkkarinen' post='187687' date='Mar 24 2010, 09:50 AM'][quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='187591' date='Mar 23 2010, 09:55 PM']
JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JACK WHITE:
.........
==ON TMWKK THE LOVE AFFAIR AND EVER SINCE 1999 WHEN I FIRST SPOKE OUT, I MENTIONED 14-15 PHONE CALLS BETWEEN OCTOBER 6 AND EARLY AM NOV. 21.==
He would go across Beckley Street from his rooming house to a 24-hour laundromat and call her on a pay phone there, and they would talk for hours. This was countered on several counts, as I recall.
==IT HAS NEVER BEEN COUNTERED. A JANITOR IS IN THE MARY FERRELL CHRONOLOGY REPORTING SEEING LEE OSWALD THERE THE LAST NIGHT HE CALLED ME. I DID NOT SAY THAT LEE USED THE LAUNDROMAT EVERY TIME FOR A CALL. I DESCRIBED BEING ABLE TO HEAR CARS PASSING BY ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS...NOR DID I CLAIM A PAYPHONE EXISTED INSIDE THE LAUNDROMAT. I HAVE SOME INFORMATION ABOUT HIS, THOUGH, THAT THE RESEARCH COMMUNITY SHOULD KNOW ABOUT. IT CASTS ASPERSIONS ON THE ROLE AND CONDUCT OF RUTH PAINE ON THE EVENING OF NOV. 21==
Some researcher found no such nearby laundromat existed.
==INACCURATE. THE JANITOR'S LAUNDROMAT REPORT WAS FROM THE FBI.==
Ian Griggs wrote an article called "Kill That Myth!" that appeared in Fair Play Magazine, Fair Play Issue #25, Nov-Dec 1998; it included this information:
CE 3000 is an FBI report of an interview with Leslie Lawson, the owner and manager of Gray's Cleaners, 1209 Eldorado, Oak Cliff on 5th December 1963. Although not stated in the interview notes, that location is only a hundred yards from Oswald's rooming house. Lawson stated that 'he has seen Lee Harvey Oswald on one particular occasion that he can recall and possibly on other occasions which he could not specifically recall.' Mr Lawson then said that approximately a month earlier, Lee Harvey Oswald had entered his cleaning establishment and handed in a tie, white shirt and black pair of trousers for cleaning. Two days later, when Oswald called to collect these items, he had been charged $1.25 and had complained about being charged 25 cents for the cleaning of his tie.
Lawson also stated that he had seen Oswald on several occasions at Sleight's Speed Wash, 1101 North Beckley. This establishment had, in fact, changed its name to Reno's Speed Wash in August 1963. A former Reno's employee, Joseph Johnson, was interviewed by the FBI on 28th July 1964 and stated that on the evening of 20th or 21st November 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald was 'washing laundry at Reno's Speed Wash.' Oswald, he said, remained there, reading magazines, until midnight. (CE 3001)
CE3000 can be seen here:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol26_0275b.htm
CE3001 can be seen here:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol26_0276b.htm
CE3001 does not include the interview of Joe Johnson, but in it, the owner of the laundromat names him as an employee of the laundromat at the time.
CE3009 is the one that actually contains info about the interview with Johnson. It can be seen here:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol26_0285a.htm
Johnson, the janitor, worked from 7pm til midnight and reported Oswald was there doing laundry on either the night of the 20th or 21st of November ... he says Oswald did not converse with anyone and sat reading magazines until midnight, when "the merchant patrolman" asked Oswald to leave as the laundromat was closing.
The laundromat, being at 1101 N. Beckley, would, of course, be in the next block and on the other side of the street from O's rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley.
Bests,
Barb :-)