06-04-2010, 03:50 PM
JUDYTH RESPONDS TO JACK ABOUT WHETHER "HARVEY" COULD DRIVE
NOTE: This appears to be four for four for Judyth as opposed to Jack on
Lee's discharged, the index, how we know he took a bus to New Orleans
and now whether or not he could drive. Judyth appears to be right about
all four and Jack wrong, even though he would never acknowledge that.
JUDYTH REPLIES:
Jack White writes:
Read the book. It was HARVEY that JVB knew. Harvey could not drive.
LEE (the REAL Lee) COULD DRIVE. Armstrong documents this.
REPLY: Lee Harvey Oswald could drive. Unless you now include the entire
Murret family as knowing "Lee" as well as "Harvey", how does Mr. Armstrong
explain these records:
April/May 1963 - Oswald drives his uncle Murret's car. (WC Vol 2, pp. 503-504)
Oswald's cousin, John Murret, let him drive his car sometime between May and
July. (WC Vol 8, p. 151)
Judyth Baker has also stated to researchers that Oswald could drive, and did so,
with her, on three occasions. One such occasion has entered the record:
The opening remarks at he Clay Shaw trial mention that occasion, saying it was
not Marina Oswald with Oswald a hat time, and that the prosecution wished they
knew who the woman was, that she would stand forth.
At that time, Judyth Baker was in bed trying to save a pregnancy, and they had
no TV or newspaper access. She did not know about this appeal.
Baker was the woman in the Kaiser-Frazer seen by Garrison witness Mary Morgan,
daughter of Reeves Morgan, a state representative and an employee at the East
Louisiana State Hospital where Oswald and Baker were headed August 31, 1963,
when they stopped at the barbershop in Jackson (Lea McGeHee also testified that
HE saw a woman in the Kaiser-Frazer automobile at that time, not sitting at the wheel).
After finishing duties at the hospital, Oswald and Baker, prior to their return to New
Orleans, stopped at the Morgan residence, just after sunset, where Mary, going outside
to stand on the poirch, saw a woman (Baker) sitting in the car Oswald had been driving
as her father spoke inside the house with Oswald inside. Mary would soon leave for college
classes.
This is on the witness record.
Baker has always stated Oswald could drive, but preferred not to because his driver's
license had been left behind in Texas. He did not tell Marina he could drive because she
would have insisted on their purchasing a car. He put off all such requests because he
was posing as a "dissatisfied worker" who could be sent to Cuba safely on such pretexts.
Car ownership and prosperity were not good ways to get disenchanted with the capitalist
system. His pro-Castro activities in New Orleans enhanced this image.
JVB
[quote name='Jack White' post='188766' date='Apr 4 2010, 03:53 PM']
[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='188723' date='Apr 4 2010, 04:23 AM']
JIM RESPONDS TO JACK WHITE WITH A FEW QUESTIONS OF HIS OWN
That does appear to be a lapse. But I'm not sure what to make of it, since in the
same post discussing Robert she explains that Lee received an "undesirable" and
not a "dishonorable" discharge, as you are observing here. I'll ask her about this.
I have two questions for you. In post #756, you remark, relative to the question
of Lee's driving ability, you state (categorically), "I do NOT GRANT that JVB knows
more about Lee's driving than John Armstrong". Aren't you simply assuming this?
In particular, IF JUDYTH'S STORY IS CORRECT AND SHE ACTUALLY DROVE PLACES
WITH THE MAN SHE KNEW AS "LEE", WOULD YOU THEN GRANT THAT SHE KNOWS
MORE ABOUT LEE'S DRIVING THAN JOHN ARMSTRONG? Would you admit as much?
Howard Platzman and I had an interesting conversation today. He told me that he
and Martin Shackelford subjected Judyth to multiple forms of questioning and that,
when "60 Minutes" took an interest, CBS also conducted an investigation of its own.
Martin obtained a copy of Mary Ferrell's chronology of the activities of the man she
knew as "Lee" in New Orleans, but he did not share it with her. He spent a lot of
time asking her about what Lee was doing on specific dates and she answered him.
She was very successful in matching the Ferrell chronology. Martin thought that he
had nailed her on mistakes on two occasions. But it turned out that those were days
when the Ferrell chronology was blank. So Judyth apparently was filling in the blanks.
Is there any quantity or quality of evidence such that, were it to be produced, would
be sufficient to convince you that there is the POSSIBILITY that Judyth might be "the
real deal", even if you could care less and can't imagine why it should matter at all?
[quote name='Jack White' post='188717' date='Apr 4 2010, 05:41 AM']
[[JVB: Robert should know that Lee was not discharged, but placed in the Marine
Reserves, a bit early...]]
Lee Harvey Oswald received an UNDESIRABLE DISCHARGE from the Marines.[/quote]
[/quote]
Read the book. It was HARVEY that JVB knew. Harvey could not drive. LEE (the REAL Lee) COULD DRIVE.
Armstrong documents this.
JVB might be more believable if she DIDN'T fill in all the blanks. Where there are blanks, she inserts
herself.
In another thread, I commented that I WAS ALWAYS PUZZLED that years ago when I first read
the WR and other books, I was struck by the lack of investigation of how and when LHO got to
NOLA from Dallas. He suddenly decided to leave his pregnant wife and go to look for work in
New Orleans; why not look for work in Dallas? But the FBI and WC did not document when, why
or how this happened. So JVB FILLS IN THIS BLANK by saying he took a bus. How does she know?
She claims he told her he took a bus...and nobody can dispute her because there is no record.
Jack
[/quote]
NOTE: This appears to be four for four for Judyth as opposed to Jack on
Lee's discharged, the index, how we know he took a bus to New Orleans
and now whether or not he could drive. Judyth appears to be right about
all four and Jack wrong, even though he would never acknowledge that.
JUDYTH REPLIES:
Jack White writes:
Read the book. It was HARVEY that JVB knew. Harvey could not drive.
LEE (the REAL Lee) COULD DRIVE. Armstrong documents this.
REPLY: Lee Harvey Oswald could drive. Unless you now include the entire
Murret family as knowing "Lee" as well as "Harvey", how does Mr. Armstrong
explain these records:
April/May 1963 - Oswald drives his uncle Murret's car. (WC Vol 2, pp. 503-504)
Oswald's cousin, John Murret, let him drive his car sometime between May and
July. (WC Vol 8, p. 151)
Judyth Baker has also stated to researchers that Oswald could drive, and did so,
with her, on three occasions. One such occasion has entered the record:
The opening remarks at he Clay Shaw trial mention that occasion, saying it was
not Marina Oswald with Oswald a hat time, and that the prosecution wished they
knew who the woman was, that she would stand forth.
At that time, Judyth Baker was in bed trying to save a pregnancy, and they had
no TV or newspaper access. She did not know about this appeal.
Baker was the woman in the Kaiser-Frazer seen by Garrison witness Mary Morgan,
daughter of Reeves Morgan, a state representative and an employee at the East
Louisiana State Hospital where Oswald and Baker were headed August 31, 1963,
when they stopped at the barbershop in Jackson (Lea McGeHee also testified that
HE saw a woman in the Kaiser-Frazer automobile at that time, not sitting at the wheel).
After finishing duties at the hospital, Oswald and Baker, prior to their return to New
Orleans, stopped at the Morgan residence, just after sunset, where Mary, going outside
to stand on the poirch, saw a woman (Baker) sitting in the car Oswald had been driving
as her father spoke inside the house with Oswald inside. Mary would soon leave for college
classes.
This is on the witness record.
Baker has always stated Oswald could drive, but preferred not to because his driver's
license had been left behind in Texas. He did not tell Marina he could drive because she
would have insisted on their purchasing a car. He put off all such requests because he
was posing as a "dissatisfied worker" who could be sent to Cuba safely on such pretexts.
Car ownership and prosperity were not good ways to get disenchanted with the capitalist
system. His pro-Castro activities in New Orleans enhanced this image.
JVB
[quote name='Jack White' post='188766' date='Apr 4 2010, 03:53 PM']
[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='188723' date='Apr 4 2010, 04:23 AM']
JIM RESPONDS TO JACK WHITE WITH A FEW QUESTIONS OF HIS OWN
That does appear to be a lapse. But I'm not sure what to make of it, since in the
same post discussing Robert she explains that Lee received an "undesirable" and
not a "dishonorable" discharge, as you are observing here. I'll ask her about this.
I have two questions for you. In post #756, you remark, relative to the question
of Lee's driving ability, you state (categorically), "I do NOT GRANT that JVB knows
more about Lee's driving than John Armstrong". Aren't you simply assuming this?
In particular, IF JUDYTH'S STORY IS CORRECT AND SHE ACTUALLY DROVE PLACES
WITH THE MAN SHE KNEW AS "LEE", WOULD YOU THEN GRANT THAT SHE KNOWS
MORE ABOUT LEE'S DRIVING THAN JOHN ARMSTRONG? Would you admit as much?
Howard Platzman and I had an interesting conversation today. He told me that he
and Martin Shackelford subjected Judyth to multiple forms of questioning and that,
when "60 Minutes" took an interest, CBS also conducted an investigation of its own.
Martin obtained a copy of Mary Ferrell's chronology of the activities of the man she
knew as "Lee" in New Orleans, but he did not share it with her. He spent a lot of
time asking her about what Lee was doing on specific dates and she answered him.
She was very successful in matching the Ferrell chronology. Martin thought that he
had nailed her on mistakes on two occasions. But it turned out that those were days
when the Ferrell chronology was blank. So Judyth apparently was filling in the blanks.
Is there any quantity or quality of evidence such that, were it to be produced, would
be sufficient to convince you that there is the POSSIBILITY that Judyth might be "the
real deal", even if you could care less and can't imagine why it should matter at all?
[quote name='Jack White' post='188717' date='Apr 4 2010, 05:41 AM']
[[JVB: Robert should know that Lee was not discharged, but placed in the Marine
Reserves, a bit early...]]
Lee Harvey Oswald received an UNDESIRABLE DISCHARGE from the Marines.[/quote]
[/quote]
Read the book. It was HARVEY that JVB knew. Harvey could not drive. LEE (the REAL Lee) COULD DRIVE.
Armstrong documents this.
JVB might be more believable if she DIDN'T fill in all the blanks. Where there are blanks, she inserts
herself.
In another thread, I commented that I WAS ALWAYS PUZZLED that years ago when I first read
the WR and other books, I was struck by the lack of investigation of how and when LHO got to
NOLA from Dallas. He suddenly decided to leave his pregnant wife and go to look for work in
New Orleans; why not look for work in Dallas? But the FBI and WC did not document when, why
or how this happened. So JVB FILLS IN THIS BLANK by saying he took a bus. How does she know?
She claims he told her he took a bus...and nobody can dispute her because there is no record.
Jack
[/quote]