Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[James H. Fetzer]

JIM REPLIES TO JOHN SIMKIN ABOUT JUDYTH AND HIS (SIMKIN'S) INVOLVEMENT IN THIS THREAD

John,

What I have previously observed (see below) is that your report about the specific date that Judyth joined the forum was
(at least, implicitly) inconsistent with your remark that she was already "a member of the forum", which occurred at the
end of your first post about the new "JFK assassination" (post #77 on page 6). Let me say that I have long admired you
for creating this forum and greatly appreciated your invitation that I should join, which you extended many years ago.



The only respect in which I fault your performance here is that, because of your standing as the founder of the forum,
when you express opinions such as you have done here--"Eventually, I came to the conclusion that she was a fantasist"--
has the effect of warping the discussion. That that should be your personal opinion is fine, but that you, as the founder,
should express it in relation to a thread dedicated to determining whether or not that is true is completely inappropriate.

I strongly suspect that, since you and Judyth had obviously been in contact BEFORE this branch of the forum was created,
and no doubt she had ENCOURAGED YOU TO CREATE SUCH A BRANCH, she probably inferred (apparently mistakenly)
that you had created this new branch BECAUSE SHE HAD ENCOURAGE YOU. This is an example of the fallacy involved
in inferring that because something X took place BEFORE something else Y, that X CAUSED Y (post hoc ergo propter hoc).

There are two general principles that govern attempts to understand discourse under standard conditions, which are (1)
the principle of charity and (2) the principle of humanity. According to the first, we should as much as possible, attempt
to impose interpretations upon the communications of others that make them true or, at least, plausible given their point
of view; and according to the second, as much as possible, we should presume that their motives are the same as our own.

In the case of the exchanges on this forum, of course, we are not dealing with "standard conditions" of communication,
since there is an extremist group (whose names are obvious to anyone who actually reads through this thread), which
is dedicated to discrediting what Judyth has to say, regardless of any evidence or arguments that she or I might advance
on her behalf. What I had not expected, however, was that you would intervene several times during the course of this
debate to endorse one side. I had not expected that coming from you and regard it, alas, as an abuse of your position.

Nevertheless, it creates an occasion to repost information that appeared on that earlier response from me to you, where
Wim Dankbaar and Howard Platzman explain some of the reasons that they have come to believe in Judyth. They are not
alone, of course, since Edward Haslam and Jim Marrs, who wrote the introduction to Ed's book, are also on board, not to
mention Nigel Turner, "The Love Affair", and "60 Minutes", which wanted to run her story but was overruled, no doubt, on
political grounds. My interactions with Judyth, which have become quite substantial, have only reinforced my belief in her.

Jim

P.S. I have discussed this matter many times before, including posts #143, #145, and #154. And I replied to you previously
in post #160 on page 11 as well as post #77 on page. If you were actually reading these posts, then I don't think you would
be so concerned about having made a mistake that I have corrected. But if you are not reading these posts carefully enough
to appreciate why Judyth's observation was appropriate, then you do not know enough to continue to make posts here. The
kinds of evidence adduced by Ed Haslam, DR. MARY'S MONKEY, for example, and during my interview on "The Real Deal", I
submit, are indispensable to those who want to sort out the truth about Judyth's story, which does not seem to include you:

From my post #16O on page 11:

John,

Thanks for this post, which is valuable for several different reasons. Since you refer to Judyth as "already a member of this forum" on 13 March 2004, which is the date on which you established the JFK assassination segment of The Education Forum, may I infer that you were already in contact with Judyth and considered her to be "a member of the forum", even though she would not formally join the forum until 27 March 2004?



And may I also infer that, in the course of your contacts with her prior to 13 March 2004, she, like others, may have suggested that having such a segment of the forum would be a good idea? In the post following your dedication of the JFK assassination section at http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....wtopic=511, for example, Raymond Blair states, "I proposed this activity on another thread in this forum", where he, like Judyth, is inclined to take some credit for its establishment.

If I am correct in my inferences about this, then I think we have a resolution to the controversy about the origins of the JFK assassination forum, which you founded on 13 March 2004 after having received several suggestions for doing so from Raymond Blair, Judyth Baker, and others. Which makes perfectly good sense, since you were in sufficient contact with her to consider her to already be "a member of the forum", even though she would not formally join the forum until 27 March 2004.

Your link to a previous thread at http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....topic=1435 yields a bonanza of information, including extremely interesting posts from Wim Dankbaar, Pamela McElwain-Brown, Martin Shackelford, Bob Vernon, John Ritchson, Judyth and you. Your post of 28 August 2004, for example, explains that you have had extensive contact with Judyth and that you are inclined to believe her story, not least of all because it fits your own analysis of historical events.

During the course of the thread, you provide yet another link at http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....topic=1758 which also appears to be loaded with interesting material. So I want to thank you for making this post. I believe my reconstruction of those events has the potential to resolve some conflicts about their interpretation, which promises to reconcile your remark about Judyth being "a member of the forum" already even though she did not formally join until the 27th.

Jim

QUOTE (James H. Fetzer @ Apr 11 2010, 01:59 AM)
1) John Simkin showing prejudice against me at once by implying I lied--corrected by Dr. Fetzer;

I assume this refers to your claim that I started the JFK Forum because JVB suggested it. I have already said this is untrue. Surely, I am the best person to know why I created this Forum.

I did take part in a long email exchange with JVB where she answered my questions. Eventually, I came to the conclusion that she was a fantasist.

[quote name='James H. Fetzer' post='185326' date='Mar 1 2010, 09:17 PM']Actually, John, you observed that she was already a member of the forum in a post of your own dated Mar 13 2004 as follows. Given the interest in her (real or imagined) experiences, I am also posting some of the earliest exchanges about her and her replies. They can serve as a kind of "base line" for measuring the consistency of her reports across time, where none of us would be expected to be completely consistent in every respect. There is a lot of very interesting information here and Judyth has been extremely forthcoming.

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post Mar 13 2004, 09:59 AM
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In November, 2003 Judyth Baker appeared in the television programme made by Nigel Turner, The Men Who Killed Kennedy: The Love Affair. In the film Judyth tells of her (at first, unwitting) involvement in an anti-Castro conspiracy. A young woman who had received specialized training in cancer research, she was invited to New Orleans by Alton Ochsner to aid Dr. Mary Sherman in a research project that was being developed to kill Fidel Castro.

In 1963, Judyth met Lee Harvey Oswald and became involved on the clandestine side of the research project. Both had unhappy marriages and were attracted to each other. She and Oswald began working together: they were both hired May 10, 1963, at Reily's Coffee Company, which provided cover jobs for them. Several labs were involved, including a tumor and tissue culture processing mini-lab, at an apartment owned by anti-Castroite Dave Ferrie. Lee Oswald was selected to courier the biological materials to Mexico City, but the project was called off due to Hurricane Flora. Oswald was ordered to Dallas.

Oswald kept in touch with Judyth: they planned to escape to Mexico after his major assignment - his voluntary infiltration of an assassination ring against John F. Kennedy. Oswald believed a highly conservative Texas-sponsored cartel was working with the Mafia and rogue elements of the CIA and the FBI in the plot against Kennedy. He suspected that David Atlee Phillips was his handler. After Kennedy was assassinated, Dave Ferrie called Judyth and told her she was being watched: if she talked, she would die.

Researchers are divided on Baker's story: a number of researchers have seen most or all her original evidence files and defend her (such as Jim Marrs, Martin Shackelford, Wim Dankbaar, Howard Platzman) while other researchers attack her story (Jack White, David Lifton, John MacAdams, Dave Reitzes). Baker points out that almost all the researchers who have attacked her story have never met her or viewed her original evidence files.

You can read the John MacAdams account below:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/judyth.htm

I believe his account is full of inaccuracies. As Judyth Baker is a member of the forum I hope she will point this out for us.

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post Mar 29 2004, 04:29 PM
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I still have a few problems with the story. As do most people who have studied the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It is not only John Macadams who have found the story difficult to believe. This is not to say the story is not true. However, researchers will need to see documentary evidence that Judyth Baker was involved with Lee Harvey Oswald in a conspiracy in New Orleans to develop a new biological weapon.

(1) This story involves several characters who had the potential to reveal the truth of why Oswald was in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. Therefore it was understandably why people who knew about the conspiracy (Lee Harvey Oswald, Dr. Mary Sherman, David Ferrie and Guy Banister etc.) were murdered or died in mysterious circumstances soon afterwards. I would have thought that if this was the case than Judyth Baker would have been killed during this period.

(2) I would have found the story more believable if characters were named who were still alive to answer questions about the case. Characters like David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Mary Sherman, David Atlee Phillips, Carlos Marcello, etc. have been mentioned several times before. One of the advantages of naming these characters is that they are dead and cannot contradict the theory.

I would definitely be interested in hearing from the “two living witnesses” who could back-up this story. You say “these recorded interviews could not be used in the documentary because these witnesses have been threatened thereafter”. Who is still alive to keep these witnesses from talking. For example, Billie Sol Estes has recently provided information on the case because all those involved in the original conspiracy are now dead.

(3) Researchers have found it difficult to believe that a 19 year old girl, however talented, would have been recruited for such a project. Why was David Ferrie, someone with no medical qualifications, recruited by the CIA for this plot. Mary Sherman was a doctor but she was not a cancer specialist (she was a orthopaedic surgeon).

(4) If this cocktail of a virus designed to knock out Castro’s immune system and cancer cells that would infect him and cause his death, was developed by Dr. Mary Sherman and her team, has it been used since? (Jack Ruby?). Why has this means to kill people remained a secret since 1963?

(5) Why did the CIA have to develop a new method to kill Castro? Surely they had plenty of undetectable poisons that would have been able to kill him?

(6) Some critics have suggested that Judyth read Ed Haslam’s book “Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus” and inserted herself into the story. The book describes the cancer research story and the discovery of simian virus contamination of the Salk vaccine, which is believed to be responsible for a particular cancer variant occurring in some patients today.

Despite these doubts I believe Judyth deserves a hearing. I would like to think that by rational debate we can eventually get near the truth of why Kennedy was killed. I have been dismayed by the attitude of some Kennedy researchers who have attempted to stop her from communicating her story to a large audience. It is hoped that this forum will provide a place where people with a wide variety of different views can debate these important issues.

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post Mar 29 2004, 06:08 PM
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Guests

When I wrote the above I was relying on the information I obtained from the television programme and on internet websites. Over the last couple of days I have been in email communication with Judyth Baker and I have to confess I have been impressed by her willingness to answer my detailed questions.

I still have a few problems with the story. As do most people who have studied the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It is not only John Macadams who have found the story difficult to believe. This is not to say the story is not true. However, researchers will need to see documentary evidence that Judyth Baker was involved with Lee Harvey Oswald in a conspiracy in New Orleans to develop a new biological weapon.

(1) This story involves several characters who had the potential to reveal the truth of why Oswald was in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. Therefore it was understandably why people who knew about the conspiracy (Lee Harvey Oswald, Dr. Mary Sherman, David Ferrie and Guy Banister etc.) were murdered or died in mysterious circumstances soon afterwards. I would have thought that if this was the case than Judyth Baker would have been killed during this period.

(2) I would have found the story more believable if characters were named who were still alive to answer questions about the case. Characters like David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Mary Sherman, David Atlee Phillips, Carlos Marcello, etc. have been mentioned several times before. One of the advantages of naming these characters is that they are dead and cannot contradict the theory.

Judyth was never called to testify in any case or hearing (like Ferrie, Giancana, Nicoletti, Roselli etc), nor did she volunteer any information (like Cheramie, Kilgallen, Craig, Pitzer, Ruby, etc)
"How could I contradict the official story? All my witnesses kept dying on me." - Jim Garrison

I would definitely be interested in hearing from the “two living witnesses” who could back-up this story. You say “these recorded interviews could not be used in the documentary because these witnesses have been threatened thereafter”.

You have to ask Judyth about them. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to release their names.

Who is still alive to keep these witnesses from talking.

Heirs and friends of LBJ, George H. W. Bush, Gerald Ford, Arlen Specter and on and on.

For example, Billie Sol Estes has recently provided information on the case because all those involved in the original conspiracy are now dead.

Billy Sol is blowing smoke or just does not have the full picture. Chauncey Holt applied the same reasoning. He was just wrong. This was a compartimentalized operation.

(3) Researchers have found it difficult to believe that a 19 year old girl, however talented, would have been recruited for such a project. Why was David Ferrie, someone with no medical qualifications, recruited by the CIA for this plot. Mary Sherman was a doctor but she was not a cancer specialist (she was a orthopaedic surgeon).

Yeah, well, ther was a time researchers found it difficult to believe the earth is round.

(4) If this cocktail of a virus designed to knock out Castro’s immune system and cancer cells that would infect him and cause his death, was developed by Dr. Mary Sherman and her team, has it been used since? (Jack Ruby?).

Bingo!

Why has this means to kill people remained a secret since 1963?

Because this secret is even more damning than the truth about the Kennedy assassination. How would you feel if you know your polio vaccine had been contamined with a cancer causing virus?

(5) Why did the CIA have to develop a new method to kill Castro? Surely they had plenty of undetectable poisons that would have been able to kill him?


Because this one would furnish plausible denial. Ochsner was just promoting that cigarette smoke causes cancer. Castro smoked cigars like a chimney.


(6) Some critics have suggested that Judyth read Ed Haslam’s book “Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus” and inserted herself into the story. The book describes the cancer research story and the discovery of simian virus contamination of the Salk vaccine, which is believed to be responsible for a particular cancer variant occurring in some patients today.

I know Ed and he knows Judyth. They didn't know each other before Judyth came out with her story. They got to know each other when they were both invited for CBS 60 minutes, which was canceled last minute (of course). Ed believes Judyth. Simple as that. He had been familiar with the name Judyth Vary Baker for 30 years.

Despite these doubts I believe Judyth deserves a hearing. I would like to think that by rational debate we can eventually get near the truth of why Kennedy was killed. I have been dismayed by the attitude of some Kennedy researchers who have attempted to stop her from communicating her story to a large audience. It is hoped that this forum will provide a place where people with a wide variety of different views can debate these important issues.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

This post has been edited by dankbaar: Mar 29 2004, 06:10 PM
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Guest_Wim Dankbaar_*
post Mar 30 2004, 09:12 AM
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Oh, and one more thing: Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, especially not on McAdams' website. Mary Sherman was not only a surgeon, but also a BONE CANCER SPECIALIST, BONE CANCER SPECIALIST, BONE CANCER SPECIALIST. She was especially brought down from Chicago by Ochsner to head his bone clinic. She was also on the BOARD of his CANCER clinic. Now why is that not in his biography???? And why has the picture of board members including Mary Sherman been removed from the second printing onwards?


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Guest_Wim Dankbaar_*
post Apr 7 2004, 04:50 PM
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http://www.spitfirelist.com/f316.html

FTR#316—Update on the Politics of SV40—(Two 30-minute segments) (Sources are noted in parentheses.) (Recorded on 7/29/2001.)

Note: FTR#’s 260-315, 317, FTR#325 and succeeding programs are streaming on Real Audio at http://www.wfmu.org/daveemory. FTR#’s 01-270, 316-324 are available for download only, also on Real Audio, at http://archive.wfmu.org:5555/archive/DX/.)

Note: Users of this website are emphatically encouraged to create a word document out of the program descriptions and do a “search” on individual subjects in order to more completely reference those items.

Note: Users of this website (as well as the two WFMU web addresses noted above) are emphatically encouraged to use the internet to disseminate as much of the audio and printed material as possible. It is all FREE!

Providing valuable supplemental information to previous programs about the cancer-causing monkey virus SV40, this broadcast highlights articles from the mainstream press that reinforce the remarkable research done by Ed Haslam, the author of the vitally important recent book Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus: The Story of an Underground Medical Laboratory. (For more about Ed and his historic research, see, among other programs, FTR#’s 16, 19, 62, 63, 76, 198, 199, 269, 308. In particular, the listener is referred to FTR#19, a detailed, three-hour interview with Ed Haslam that covers the subject material of his book at length and in detail.) A contaminant in the original polio vaccine, the SV40 appears to be the cause of a soft-tissue cancer epidemic.

1. The program begins with discussion of a front-page story in the San Francisco Chronicle that is strongly supportive of information presented in previous programs about SV40. “A growing number of medical researchers fear that a monkey virus that contaminated the polio vaccine given to tens of millions of Americans in the 1950’s and ‘60’s may be causing rare human cancers. For four decades, government officials have insisted that there is no evidence the simian virus called SV40 is harmful to humans. But in recent years, dozens of scientific studies have found the virus in a steadily increasing number of rare brain, bone and lung-related tumors—the same malignant cancer SV40 causes in lab animals.” (“Rogue Virus in the Vaccine” by William Carlsen; San Francisco Chronicle; p. A1.)

2. As reported in previous programs on SV40, there is evidence that the virus (and, consequently, the cancers it causes) are contagious. “Even more troubling, the virus has been detected in tumors removed from people never inoculated with the contaminated vaccine, leading some to worry that those infected by the vaccine might be spreading SV40.” (Idem.)

3. The number of researchers who feel that SV40 is a threat is growing. “The discovery of SV40 in human tumors has generated intense debate within the scientific community, pitting a handful of government health officials, who believe that the virus is harmless, against researchers from Boston to China who now suspect SV40 may be a human carcinogen. At stake are millions of research dollars and potential medical treatments for those afflicted with the cancers SV40 may be causing.” (Ibid.; pp. A1-A16.)

4. Four years after the development of the Salk vaccine, Bernice Eddy of the National Institutes of Health discovered the contamination of the vaccine with SV40. “Four years later, Bernice Eddy, a researcher at the National Institutes of Health, noticed something strange while looking through her microscope. Monkey kidney cells—the same kind used to make the vaccine—were dying without apparent cause. So she tried an experiment. She prepared kidney extracts from eight to 10 rhesus monkeys and injected tiny amounts under the skin of 23 new born hamsters. Within nine months, ‘large, malignant, subcutaneous tumors’ appeared on 20 of the animals.” (Ibid.; p. A16.)

5. Eddy’s results were dismissed by NIH researchers. “On July 6, 1960, concerned that a monkey virus might be contaminating the polio vaccine, Eddy took her findings to Dr. Joseph Smadel, chief of the NIH’s biologics division. Smadel dismissed the tumors as harmless ‘lumps.’ The same year, however, at a Merck laboratory in Pennsylvania, Dr. Maurice Hilleman and Dr. Ben Sweet isolated the virus. They called it simian virus 40, or SV40, because it was the 40th virus found in rhesus kidney tissue.” (Idem.)

6. Other experts, however, shared Eddy’s concern. “But U.S. Public Health Service officials were worried. Tests had found SV40 in both the Sabin and Salk vaccines—it was later estimated that as much as a third of the Salk vaccine was tainted—and that SV40 was causing cancer in lab animals. In early 1961, they quietly met with the agency’s top vaccine advisers. The agency found no evidence that the virus had been harmful to humans, but in March, the officials ordered manufacturers to eliminate SV40 from all future vaccine. New procedures were adopted to neutralize the tainted polio virus seed stock and SV40-free African green monkeys were used to produce the bulk vaccine instead of rhesus monkeys.” (Idem.)

7. Although the vaccine-making procedures had been altered, the public was kept in the dark. “But officials did not recall contaminated Salk vaccine—more than a year’s supply—still in the hands of the nation’s doctors. And they did not notify the public of the contamination and SV40’s carcinogenic effect on newborn hamsters. [Maurice] Hilleman would later explain that government officials were worried that any potentially negative information could ignite a panic and jeopardize the vaccination campaign. The first public disclosure that the Salk vaccine was contaminated came in the New York Times on July 26, 1961. A story on Page 33 reported that Merck and other manufacturers had halted production until they could get a ‘monkey virus’ out of the vaccine. When asked to comment, the U.S. Public Health Service stressed there was no evidence the virus was dangerous.” (Idem.)

8. As discussed in FTR#’s 198, 199, Michele Carbone was able to confirm the contamination of the vaccine. In addition, Carbone discovered that the vaccine contained a second form of SV40 that may have continued to contaminate vaccines! “For years, researchers had believed that all SV40-contaminated Salk vaccine made between 1955 and 1963 had been used or discarded. Then in 1999, Carbone was contacted by a former public health director in Oak Park, Ill., who said he had seven sealed vials of vaccine dated October 1955 in a refrigerator in his basement. Carbone, who had left the NIH and joined the faculty at Loyola University Medical Center, ran tests on the vaccine and made a startling discovery: Not only was the vaccine contaminated, it contained a second form of the virus—an ‘archetypal’ SV40 strain.” (Ibid.; p. A17.)

9. The continued contamination of the vaccine-making process is highlighted in the passage that follows. “Although manufacturers switched from rhesus monkeys to SV40-free green African monkeys to grow the bulk vaccine in 1961, they have continued to use potentially contaminated polio seed strains originally grown on the rhesus monkey tissue to start the bulk vaccine process. [Italics are Mr. Emory’s] Manufacturers check the purity of their vaccine with a series of 14-day tests to detect whether any SV40 slipped through. But when Carbone replicated the tests, he found that the second, slower-growing ‘archetypal’ strain took 19 days to emerge. It was possible, Carbone noted in a published report, that this second strain of SV40 had been evading manufacturers’ screening procedures for years—and infecting vaccine recipients after 1962.” (Idem.)

10. The National Cancer Institute continues to drag its feet with regard to SV40 and its relationship to human cancer. Historically, that institution is deeply tainted. More about that later in this program description. “But the NCI recently acknowledged that there is evidence to suggest that SV40 ‘may be associated with human cancer.’ The NCI statement, released last month, also said that SV40’s interaction with ‘tumor suppressor proteins’ indicates ‘possible mechanisms that could contribute to the development of cancer.’ Top NCI officials declined to be interviewed on the record for this report. Fraumeni also declined several requests for an in interview. Dr. James Goedert, the chief of the NCI’s Viral Epidemiology Branch who supervised Strickler’s work, said that if SV40 is in human tumors, it must be at extremely low levels. To critics who claim the government has down played SV40’s potential health risks, Goedert responded: ‘Absolutely not.’ He acknowledged that research is needed to resolve the question of whether SV40 is prevalent in the human population and, if so, how it might be spreading. But Goedert said he has no plans for such studies. ‘It’s not our highest priority,’ he said.” (Idem.)

11. A subsequent article by William Carlsen supplements the above information concerning the SV40 contamination of more recent vaccines. “A monkey virus linked to human cancers may have contaminated the oral polio vaccine for years after the U.S. government ordered manufacturers to remove it, according to drug company documents obtained by The Chronicle. The Chronicle reported last week that the simian virus SV40 had contaminated early polio vaccine given to millions of Americans. When health officials discovered in 1961 that SV40 caused malignant tumors in lab animals, they ordered the virus eliminated from all future vaccine.” (“New Documents Show the Monkey Virus is Present in More Recent Polio Vaccine” by William Carlsen; San Francisco Chronicle; 7/22/2001; p. A6.)

12. More details about the subsequent contamination indicate the possibility of liability. (As this description is being written, the Homeland Security Act has been passed containing a clause eliminating the civic liability of vaccine makers for the product that they manufacture.) “But internal memos from Lederle Laboratories, the chief producer of polio vaccine in the United States, indicate SV40 may not have been completely removed. According to one memo, SV40 was found in three of 15 lots of the oral vaccine seven months after the federal directive was issued in March 1961. Lederle released the contaminated vaccine to the public anyway, the memo shows. The documents also suggest that the company failed to test the monkey-kidney seed strains used to make the bulk polio vaccine for contamination, despite a written warning from Dr. Albert Sabin, who developed the oral vaccine.” (Idem.)

13. Next, the broadcast sets forth the work of one of Bernice Eddy’s heroic (and relatively unrecognized) co-workers, Sarah Stewart. After relating the disastrous discovery of the SV40 contamination of the vaccine, the text highlights Ms. Stewart’s work. “In the aftermath of the debacle, Bernice Eddy was taken off of polio research and transferred to the influenza section by the thankless NIH management. She shared her frustrations with a small group of women scientists who ate brown-bag lunches on the steps of one of the laboratories. There, Eddy met a tenacious woman scientist named Sarah Stewart, who was waging her own battle against the official paradigms of bureaucratic medicine. Bernice Eddy and Sarah Stewart became close friends.” (Mary, Ferrie and the Monkey Virus: The Story of an Underground Medical Laboratory; Copyright 1995 [SC]; Wordsworth Press; p. 97. Again, listeners are encouraged to download the six-part, three interview with Ed Haslam in order to obtain a more complete overview of the discussion. http://archive.wfmu.org:5555/archive/DX/.)

14. Although her contributions remain unrecognized, Sarah Stewart’s work led to the application of recombinant DNA, in addition to confirming the role of viruses in the development of cancer. “Sarah Stewart’s name remains virtually unknown today despite her huge contribution to modern medicine. Not only did she prove that some cancers were caused by viruses, but subsequent research on the virus she discovered led o the discovery of DNA recombination, which is the most powerful tool in medical research today.” (Idem.)

15. Ms. Stewart’s work on cancer-causing viruses supplemented the work of Bernice Eddy and influenced and anticipated the efforts of their collaborator, Dr. Mary Sherman. “From the beginning, Sarah Stewart promoted the idea that cancer was caused by viruses. Due to this, she was not well accepted by the NIH or NCI staffs who described her as ‘an eccentric lady’ determined to prove her theory was right. ‘No one believed her . . .’ Finally, she was given access to an NCI laboratory in Bethesda where she could try to prove her theories. In 1953, she almost succeeded, but her work was not accepted by the ruling crowd at NIH. They found her methods sloppy and objected to the fact that she did not culture her viruses. So in 1956, her lunch partner Bernice Eddy showed Sarah Stewart how to grow her viruses in a culture of mouse cells. She now had all the ingredients she needed and began a series of experiments which are called ‘classic’ by modern day NIH researchers.” (Ibid.; p. 98.)

16. Stewart’s work was rejected by many of her colleagues. Notable among those colleagues was her supervisor Alan Rabson—a name to remember in the context of discussion to follow. “As her work progressed, she realized she stood on the edge of an extremely important discovery and became very protective of her techniques. In staff presentations, she would bewilder NIH pathologists by showing them slides of things they had never seen before. Then, when they asked how she produced her results, she would giggle and say ‘It’s a secret.’ To quote her supervisor Alan Rabson: ‘She drove everybody crazy.’” (Idem.)

17. Stewart and Eddy discovered a carcinogenic virus called “polyoma,” which shed a great deal of light on the discovery of SV40. “In 1957, Stewart and Eddy discovered the polyoma virus which produced several types of cancer in a variety of small mammals. Polyoma proved that some cancers were indeed caused by viruses. Her discovery officially threw open the doors of cancer virology. As Rabson phrased it, ‘Suddenly, the whole place just exploded after Sarah found polyoma.’ It was the beginning of a new era of hope. But it raised some dark questions about earlier deeds. Before long Yale’s laboratory discovered that the polyoma virus that had produced the cancer in Stewart’s mice and hamsters turned out to be virtually identical to Simian Virus #40 (SV-40), a monkey virus that caused cancer.’” (Idem.)

18. Highlighting the discussion that is presented in the first part of the program, Mr. Haslam relates Bernice Eddy’s discovery of the contamination of the polio vaccine. He then goes on to describe the reaction of the NIH to her disclosures. “In October 1960, Eddy gave a talk to the Cancer Society in New York and, without warning NIH in advance, announced that she had examined cells from the monkeys kidneys in which the polio virus was grown and had found they were infected with cancer causing viruses! Her inference was clear: There were cancer-causing monkey viruses in the polio vaccine! This was tantamount to forecasting an epidemic of cancer in America! When the word got back to her NIH bosses, they exploded in anger. When the cussing stopped, they crushed Bernice Eddy professionally. Any mention of cancer-causing monkey viruses in the polio vaccine was not welcomed by NIH. They took away her lab, destroyed her animals, put her under a gag order, prevented her from attending professional meetings, and delayed publication of her scientific paper. In the words of Edward Shorter, author of The Health Century, ‘Her treatment became a scandal within the scientific community.’ Later, it became the subject of a congressional inquiry. In the words of Dr. Lawrence Kilham, a fellow NIH researcher who wrote a latter of protest to the Surgeon General’s office, ‘the presence of a cancer virus in the polio virus vaccine is the matter demanding full investigation . . .’” (Ibid.; pp. 98-99.)

19. In that context, one should note the following, referenced from the Congressional Record, U.S. Senate, Consumer Safety Act of 1972. In turn, the quote is from Ruth Kirchstein of the NIH. Along with the aforementioned Alan Rabson, hers is a name to be remembered. “The insiders already knew there was a cancer-causing virus in the polio vaccine, but they had not announced it. . .” (Ibid.; p. 99.)

20. The media cover-up of the SV40 contamination followed the institutional cover-up. “On the heels of the polio fiasco, the medical hierarchy feared the judgment of the masses. Their ability to destroy a painstakingly constructed scientific career overnight had been clearly proven. Another spate of bad news might shatter the public’s confidence in vaccines altogether. Where would the world be then? Where would the public health establishment be then? As SV40 discoverer Maurice Hilleman put it, the government kept the contamination of the polio vaccine secret to ‘avoid public hysteria.’” (Ibid.; pp. 99-100.)

21. In that context, it is worth noting that Sarah Stewart and Bernice Eddy had developed a prototypical vaccine to protect animals against polyoma as early as 1959! “Developing a vaccine against a spectrum of cancer-causing monkey viruses already inoculated into millions of people in the polio vaccine was at best a long shot. But there was some evidence that anti-cancer vaccines were possible. Quoting Time magazine [“The New War on Cancer via Virus Research & Chemotherapy;” 7/27/1959; p. 54.]: ‘Stewart and Eddy have gone a vital step farther . . . and made a vaccine that protects a big majority of normally susceptible animals against the polyoma virus’s effects.’” (Ibid.; p. 104.)

22. After discussing the relationship between Dr. Mary Sherman, David Ferrie, Dr. Alton Ochsner (like David Ferrie, a key figure in the investigation into the JFK assassination) and the (almost certain) work that was underway in New Orleans on a cancer vaccine, Mr. Haslam goes on to describe the relationship between Dr. Mary Sherman, the aforementioned Ruth Kirchstein and Alan Rabson. “Mary Sherman also knew Ruth Kirchstein at NIH. Kirchstein, who was thirteen years younger than Sherman, was an instructor at Tulane Medical School in 1954 and 1955. During these years, Mary was an Associate Professor in Tulane’s Department of Orthopedic Surgery and was that department’s specialist in pathology. Both Sherman and Kirchstein had common interests in pathology and cancer and taught in the same medical school. It is reasonable to assume they knew each other well. In 1957, immediately following the polio shake-up, Kirchstein went to the National Institute of Health where she stayed for the rest of her career. At NIH, Kirschstein began working as a pathologist in the Biologics division where Bernice Eddy worked. Her specialties were listed in the medical directories as virology, polio, and oncology. But since Kirschstein was barely out of medical school when Sherman, Stewart and Eddy were already nationally recognized authorities, I do not consider their direct contact to be very strong, but there are two things about Kirschstein that should be kept in mind. First, once at NIH, Kirschstein dated and later married, Alan Rabson, who was Sarah Stewart’s supervisor. Therefore, she was in a position to know things about both Stewart and Eddy’s research that she might not have known otherwise. And secondly, Kirchstein credits much of her professional success to the personal support and professional guidance of Tulane Medical School’s Chief of Surgery, Dr. Alton Ochsner, who is known to have enjoyed using his considerable contacts to help Tulane medical graduates find good professional positions. Did Kirschstein keep Ochsner informed about the research activities at NIH and NCI? It would be hard to criticize her for keeping her mentor informed about the progress of cancer research at the national labs, especially since he was the former president of the American Cancer Society and held many important positions in the world of medicine. Additionally, as an expert in polio who lived in New Orleans in 1955, Kirschstein would also have been keenly aware of the problems that Dr. Ochsner faced after injecting his grandchildren with Salk’s polio vaccine. When Eddy and Hilleman broke the news about the cancer-causing monkey virus in the polio vaccine, it would not have been unreasonable for Kirschstein to notify Ochsner about the danger his granddaughter faced. Noting the coincidence of the time frame, we ask the question: ‘Did the ‘Sensitive Position’ that Dr. Ochsner was cleared for in October 1959 have anything to do with a secret attempt to develop a cancer vaccine to protect the American public from an epidemic of cancer?’” (Ibid.; pp. 105-106.)

23. Mr. Haslam goes on to develop more connections between biological warfare research, the NIH, New Orleans and the milieu of the Kennedy assassination. (Full detail must obtained from FTR#19 and other programs about the JFK assassination. The latter include, among other programs: The Guns of November, Parts I-IV, RFA#’s 11-13, 15, 37—all available from Spitfire—and FTR#’s 47, 54, 108, 120, 188, 190, 191, 244, 246, 288. For more about the Col. Jose A. Rivera connection, see FTR#’s 62, 63, 76.) “There were other connections between NIH and New Orleans. Of particular interest was Jose Rivera, M.D. Ph.D., who sat on the NIH Board of Directors in the 1960’s. We will note that the Dr. Rivera was really Col. Jose A. Rivera, one of the U.S. Army’s top experts in biological warfare, and that in the summer of 1963 he was in New Orleans handing out research grants from NIH (Institute for Neurological Diseases and Blindness) to Tulane Medical School, LSU Medical School, and the Ochsner Clinic. It is not my objective to pin Ferrie’s possession of the treatise on any one person, but I am trying to show that there were numerous connections between NCI and New Orleans, any one of which might explain how Mary Sherman and/or David Ferrie wound up with an internal document from NIH or NCI.” (Ibid.; p. 106.)

24. In the second edition of his book, Mr. Haslam highlights another intriguing detail about the connection between the JFK assassination and the investigation into the SV40/cancer connection. “ ‘The Warren Commission Volumes. The FBI went to the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital on 11/25/63 looking for evidence of either Lee Harvey Oswald or A.J. Hidell. They went back a second time on 11/26.’ The FBI was looking for Oswald at the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital! I could hardly believe my ears. ‘Why?’ ‘According to the Dallas Police, Oswald had a vaccination card issued to him by the U.S. Public Health Service on 6/8/63, when he lived at 4907 Magazine Street in New Orleans. It was issued to Lee Harvey Oswald, signed by Dr. A.J. Hidell. The FBI reports are in Volume 19. I’ll send you the citations.’ Had Lee Harvey Oswald been on the grounds of the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital at the time the linear particle accelerator was there? Take a look at this map. [For obvious reasons, Mr. Emory cannot reproduce the map here. Dr. Ochsner’s house, Oswald’s apartment, Children’s Hospital, the Infectious Disease Laboratory Building and the U.S. Public Health Service Hospital are within a 1-mile radius of one another.]” (Ibid.; p.127.)

25. Subsequently, Dr. Ruth Kirchstein went on to become Acting Director of the National Institutes of Health. “Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee: I am Ruth Kirchstein, the Acting Director of the National Institutes of Health.” (“Department of Health and Human Services: Statement by Dr. Ruth L. Kirschstein Acting Director, National Institutes of Health on Fiscal Year 2001 President’s Budget Request for the National Institute of Health;” 2/15/2000; accessed at http://www.nih.gov/about/director/02152000.htm .)

26. Alan (“Al”) Rabson went on to become the Deputy Director of the National Cancer Institute. “NIH WORKING GROUP ON PRIORITY SETTING: [Names include] Al Rabson—Deputy Director, National Cancer Institute.” (“Setting Research Priorities at the National Institutes of Health;” September/1997; p. 10; accessed at: http://www.nih.gov/news/ResPriority/priority.htm .)

27. Although it was not in the original broadcast of FTR#316, an article published on the front page of the San Francisco Chronicle on 3/9/2002 supplemented the material on the SV40/cancer connection in an important way. Referencing two articles from the prestigious British medical journal The Lancet, the article implicates SV40 in the development of non-Hodgkins lymphoma—one of the soft tissue cancers that Mr. Haslam documents as having assumed epidemic proportions. (“Simian Virus in Polio Shots Tied to Cancer: Two Studies Support Widely Disputed Theory” by William Carlsen; San Francisco Chronicle; 3/9/2002; p.A1; accessed at: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?fi...sfgate.com .) It is included below as a separate “rtf” file for the convenience of the listener.

“Scientists have found traces of a monkey virus that contaminated the polio vaccine in the 1950s in a common form of highly malignant human cancer that has mysteriously doubled in incidence over the past 30 years. Two studies, published yesterday in the British journal Lancet, found a link between the virus, called SV40, and non-Hodgkin's lymphomas, a disorder ranked fourth or fifth among cancer deaths in the United States among women and men, respectively. Results suggest that the virus may play a much wider role in cancer than previously suspected.” (“Simian Virus in Polio Shots Tied to Cancer: Two Studies Support Widely Disputed Theory” by William Carlsen; San Francisco Chronicle; 3/9/2002; p.A1; accessed at: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?fi...sfgate.com .)

“‘No obvious risk factors have emerged for non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in the general population, but a viral cause has been postulated,’ said a group of eight researchers at Baylor College of Medicine in Texas led by Dr. Janet Butel. ‘This finding sheds new light on the possible genesis of (this) important group of malignant disorders.’ The scientists added that their findings may also offer hope for new therapies for the malignancies.”
“In laboratory tests, hamsters injected with SV40 developed a variety of malignant tumors, but early government studies indicated that the virus appeared to have no negative effect in humans who had been exposed. That view began to change in the 1990s when DNA detection techniques became much more refined and evidence of the virus started showing up in human tumors.”

“The Salk polio vaccine, administered by injection in the United States and worldwide from 1955 through 1963, was grown on minced kidney tissue from rhesus monkeys. At the time, the manufacturing process was considered safe. But in 1960, it was discovered that large batches of the vaccine were contaminated with the simian virus later named SV40. An estimated 90 million Americans received Salk vaccine injections and as many as 30 million were exposed to the virus.”

“In laboratory tests, hamsters injected with SV40 developed a variety of malignant tumors, but early government studies indicated that the virus appeared to have no negative effect in humans who had been exposed. That view began to change in the 1990s when DNA detection techniques became much more refined and evidence of the virus started showing up in human tumors.”

“The group included rare brain, bone and lung-related cancers called mesotheliomas. Other research has also turned up SV40 in tumors of children and adults born after the contaminated vaccine was taken off the market in 1963, leading to the still-unsolved mystery of how the virus is being transmitted.”

“Yesterday's reports indicate that SV40 may be involved in a much broader group of human cancers, playing a possible role in nearly half of the 55,000 new cases of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma diagnosed annually. The cancer, which can be highly aggressive, has been associated with HIV- positive patients, and it was thought that the suppression of the immune system in these patients may have had a connection with the dramatic increase in lymphomas since 1970.”

“The new studies examined lymphomas from HIV-positive and -negative patients. Results suggested that both groups had either about the same level of SV40 DNA fragments, or that the HIV-negative samples had a greater incidence.”

“The second group of researchers were at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle and the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas. Remarkably, both groups of researchers using slightly different detection techniques came up with almost identical results: SV40 fragments were found in 42 percent of 154 lymphomas sampled in one study, while the other found 43 percent in 68 cases.”

“No virus was detected by either study in nonmalignant lymphoid samples and other cancers used as controls. A Chronicle investigation reported last year that there is a heated controversy surrounding detection of SV40 and that most U.S. government's studies over the past decade have debunked the theory that SV40 is causing human cancer or is even present in tumors.”

“But The Chronicle found that more than 60 studies from 30 laboratories around the world have reported detections of the virus in human malignancies. ‘I've been in meetings where people say there is nothing to it,’ said Dr. Jay A. Levy, a renowned virologist at the University of California at San Francisco. ‘That attitude is wrong.’”
“Levy said he had carefully reviewed the papers published yesterday and was impressed with the research. ‘You just can't walk away from it,’ he said, noting that the association found was very strong. ‘But there is still quite a difference between association and causation,’ he added, ‘and proving causation is very difficult.’”

“Dr. Adi Gazdar of the University of Texas, who led the second study, said yesterday that the ‘data is very, very solid.’ He said it had to be more than coincidence that the four types of tumors found in hamsters after injection with SV40 -- brain, bone, mesothelioma and lymphomas -- are now exactly the same tumor types in humans found with detectable levels of SV40.”

“‘The chances are 10 million to 1 it is a coincidence,’ he said. Evidence of how the virus works in tumors is growing as research shows that proteins from SV40 have a powerful effect in turning off tumor suppressor genes in humans.”

“Gazdar and the other researchers said that the recent SV40 discoveries also could help lead to effective cancer treatment, by using SV40 as a target for therapies. ‘A vaccine targeting SV40 in mesothelioma is now being developed,’ he said. ‘But it's still only a potential therapy, and we don't know if it will work yet.’”

“He said that U.S. officials have all but ignored the SV40 detections and that government funding and support for research has been nonexistent. One reason given by Gazdar and other scientists is that the government is worried about its role in promoting polio vaccination campaigns in the 1950s. ‘And maybe it's because the first SV40-related cancers that were discovered were such rare ones,’ Gazdar said. ‘But you can't ignore lymphoma; it's too widespread and too important a cancer. Jackie Kennedy and a lot of other well- known people have died from it [Italics are Mr. Emory’s].’”
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post Apr 8 2004, 03:56 AM
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I have known Judyth Baker for 5 years. (I also "know" dankbar from a usenet newsgroup, though we have never met.) I am writing this note in the hopes that this is a group of educators (as opposed to Prof. McAdams, the immoderate "moderator of that newsgroup) whose "article" on Ms. Baker, is a pile of trash. Pardon the immoderate language, but this nominal academic has been particularly destructive. Anyone who has spent the number of hours it takes to see Judyth's evidence and hear her story knows that she is the genuine article. McAdams never even met her, though her door was wide open and her telephone number widely circulated.

I co-wrote a book with Judyth, and also spent 14 months going back and forth with 60M on their intention, stated quite emphatically on the last go-round, to do a segment favorable to her. As Don Hewitt later said on C-SPAN, "the door was slammed in our face." Now what do you think he meant by that. The forces arrayed against Don Hewitt - the godfather of investigative journalism (on TV at least) were that powerful. Both he and Wallace believe her story, but as the diligent Nigel Turner segment proved, you really do have to hear the WHOLE story and see the evidence in context. It was nice, and I am thankful for the courage he showed, but viewers should not have had to rely on the talking head alone.

Unfortunately, so-called "researchers" in the JFK community, who spent little time interrogating her and viewing her evidence, have -- to protect their own books -- fought hard and fought dirty to sabotage both the book and the 60M show. They tried hard to stop Turner, too. This may surprise you, but the only thing that surprised me was the intensity of it. Who knew there were conspiracy theorists willing to go this far. Case in point: At the annual Lancer conference, held in Dallas, panelists have been informed that they may not discuss Ms. Baker's story. For this and other atrocities, the head of Lancer has disgraced the research community. I am sure that dankbar has joined this forum in the hopes of finding a true academic sanctuary where open discussion is treasured, not banned.

As for me, I am not sure that I can respond in a detailed manner to questions that come up here. It has been a wild, tiring, and discouraging five-year ride. But I do want it on record somewhere that I believe Judyth Baker knew the real Lee Harvey Oswald. I believe it without a single doubt. As she told me at the outset, the truth is complicated, but it is logical. But nobody has time for complicated in today's world. It takes too much work.

How does one reach responsible academics (unlike the History-for-Sale Channel's "Warren Commission" of LBJ experts, whose very existence should be an embarrassment and whose conclusions come preformed)? Is this the place?

Howard
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post Apr 24 2004, 04:06 PM
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I still have a few problems with the story. As do most people who have studied the assassination of John F. Kennedy. It is not only John Macadams who have found the story difficult to believe. This is not to say the story is not true. However, researchers will need to see documentary evidence that Judyth Baker was involved with Lee Harvey Oswald in a conspiracy in New Orleans to develop a new biological weapon.

(1) This story involves several characters who had the potential to reveal the truth of why Oswald was in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. Therefore it was understandable why people who knew about the conspiracy (Lee Harvey Oswald, Dr. Mary Sherman, David Ferrie and Guy Banister etc.) were murdered or died in mysterious circumstances soon afterwards. I would have thought that if this was the case than Judyth Baker would have been killed during this period. (John Simkin, Mar 29 2004, 02:29 PM)

REPLY

1)I was known in the project as "Judy Vary." But I became "Mrs. Robert A. Baker,III" only days later. At Reily, I was "Mrs. Baker." At Dave's and Mary's, I was "Judy (Vary)." My father's name was D.W. Vary, I was working with D.W. Ferrie. I always believed this also helped people lose track. "Vary" is an uncommon name. "Ferrie"was being talked about. Marina Oswald was asked about a "Mr. Farry" also.

2) I was removed from the scene of action. I moved to Florida before the final stage of the project was resolved. I was no longer in New Orleans after September 2, 1963. Dave Ferrie, an intelligent man, managed to survive until the Garrison investigation. Shortly before he was to be indicted, he died of a brain hemorrhage. Dr. Sherman was viciously murdered the day the Warren Commission came to New Orleans to get testimonies, July 21, 1964. By then, Banister had been dead one month. I did not attend my own sister's wedding in 1964. I did not attend my own grandfather's funeral in 1965. I did not attend my grandparents' funerals, within a year of each other, in 1969. Why? All these names were VARY. When I returned to study at University of Louisiana, I was so concerned that someone might remember the name 'Vary' even after all those years that I called myself 'Judyth Avary Baker' to hide the middle name, 'Vary.'

When I published short stories or poems, they were under fake names, such as James Rising, Marilyn Ryan, etc. Most important, I was afraid to go into the medical field. I obtain a degree at last - TWENTY FIVE YEARS LATER. The 'whiz kid' did not even get a degree. I contented myself with small-town politics, plunged inmto the Mormon community, which is self-contained, and raised five children, plus some foster children from time to time.

(3) Think: if I wanted to get attention and money from this, and I do have evidence of my relationship with Lee - WHY wouldn't I say he was guilty? Then everybody would have lapped it up. I would have been featured on TV, who knows what else. But I have in fact declined interviews. I have, in fact, insisted Lee was innocent, bringing down all sorts of censures on my head. I even lost my teaching job by speaking out. Note that it is VERY difficult to reach me, even now. Only a few people are even aware of where I live. I recently moved again to make it even more difficult to find me. ONLY because I'm writing to you would you have any contact. ONLY because I'm responding, do you have any input. Otherwise, I remain inaccessible. It has always been so.


(2) I would have found the story more believable if characters were named who were still alive to answer questions about the case. Characters like David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Clay Shaw, Mary Sherman, David Atlee Phillips, Carlos Marcello, etc. have been mentioned several times before. One of the advantages of naming these characters is that they are dead and cannot contradict the theory. (John Simkin, Mar 29 2004, 02:29 PM)

REPLY:

There are persons alive who were aware of my story from the beginning. My sister, Lynda, for example, knew about my love affair with Lee in 1964. My children knew from 1981 that Lee and I 'were friends.' We have statements from members of Marcello's family that they remembered me and Lee. Anna Lewis and her husband David (an investigator who had worked for Guy Banister), and Lee and I double dated. This has been twisted about by those who like to rewrite what I have actually reported. Anna spontaneously spoke of me as Lee's mistress, and went into detail before six witnesses. This poor woman has been threatened and harrassed since. I have a Mafia soldier on tape, three times. We knew each other by sight, not as friends, in New Orleans. His name is "Mac" McCullough. I've proven I knew Lee to Gerry Hemming, because I told Gerry some things Lee knew about him that nobody knew. There are others who know. They just don't want to talk. They remain silent.

As for the clandestine part, think how long it has taken to even get the government to admit that the CIA and Mafia were working together. Ask yourself WHY does the government REFUSE to release many records on Lee and his activities - what national security problem would be discovered if they were released? IF he were the Lone Gunman, and there was no conspiracy, why aren't these records available?

There are slips here and there - Sam Giancana's Chicago-based Mafia knew about our project. It's mentioned on page 416. I have a book coming out. It will provide enough evidence to make manifest that I'm telling the truth.

I would definitely be interested in hearing from the “two living witnesses” who could back-up this story. You say “these recorded interviews could not be used in the documentary because these witnesses have been threatened thereafter”. Who is still alive to keep these witnesses from talking. (John Simkin, Mar 29 2004, 02:29 PM)

You only need to see how The History Channel was beleaguered by LBJ's friends to see how much power these people can exert to make people lose their jobs, have problems with their credit cards, have money disappear from their bank accounts, to receive harrassing and threatening phone calls in the mioddle of the night - all of which happened to me after I started talking. The Ochsner family is alive and well, and do not want it to seem that their revered Alton Ochsner might have been involved in a plot to kill the President. Most important, I KNOW information that has NOT been released. Gerry Hemming, in fact, wrote to his entire INTERPEN group concerning that, although he said I had learned of these things without understanding how important they were. Oh, I indeed DO understand how important the secret records are. The American public will finally get 'records' -thanks to modern technology - that will replace the originals. The original records are probably destroyed. There are still people left alive, such as Gerald Ford, Arlen Specter, Dich Cheny, and others, whose careers/reputations would be heavily damaged by what I KNOW.

For example, Billie Sol Estes has recently provided information on the case because all those involved in the original conspiracy are now dead. (John Simkin, Mar 29 2004, 02:29 PM)

No, not because they are dead. Because he, himself, might have been blamed for the deaths of these people, in some cases. Besides, he knew he would not be believed because he was a felon, so it was safe to speak out. As for me, I'm not a felon. I founded a humane society, have five outstanding children, do not smoke, drink and have never been arrested. I NEVER got in any trouble anywhere. So they have to assassinate my character, such as bringing up that I bred dogs, trying to make a breed, and somehow, that makes me a bad person because I actually sold the dogs and founded a dog club. The fact that we donated dogs to handicapped children isn't mentioned. My reputation has to be destroyed, because I'm not a felon, or a prostitute, etc. I have read the most incredible batch of lies about my life, that these characters made up about me!

(3) Researchers have found it difficult to believe that a 19 year old girl, however talented, would have been recruited for such a project...