Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

[James H. Fetzer]

Thank you for this extraordinarily interesting overview about this thread, Michael. You have performed a service by posting it. I have detected no weakening in Ed Haslam's support for Judyth, but he awaits the publication of her book to continue with the debate, when more documents and records will become available, which is a reasonable position.

[quote name='Michael Hogan' date='Apr 26 2010, 03:06 AM' post='190841']
[quote name='Greg Burnham' post='190641' date='Apr 23 2010, 07:45 PM']
I'm very curious about something. If Jim (or any prominent researcher) had started a thread that supported a claim that JFK had been murdered by....um space aliens, for instance...how much attention would it have received? I think, at first, some of his friends would have tried to "help him" out of concern for his well being perhaps, and that some of his detractors would have rejoiced in his folly and gleefully exploited the opportunity to "throw him under the bus" -- But, then what? More than likely, IMO, the thread would have died out fairly quickly.

But that's not what happened here. This thread is the longest in EF history. If it's all so nonsensical, why? I find it interesting that some of Judyth's detractors claim, on the one hand, that her story is so outlandish as to be easily dismissed as nonsense. Yet, on the other hand, they spend a tremendous amount of energy refuting claims that they characterize as having no merit. Why would it take such effort to demonstrate that something "obviously" ridiculous is ridiculous if it was, in fact, so obvious?

Perhaps there is no merit to these claims. That's not my point. But, if there is no merit to the claims and if they are as completely outlandish as her detractors claim, then why all the effort to refute them? If ridiculous, it seems like it shouldn't have been that hard.[/quote]

Greg, I really think that Jim Fetzer, as much as the topic itself, is the reason for this thread's staying power.
His stamina has been remarkable. The sheer volume and content of his postings have been amazing to me.
He has adopted sort of a scorched earth policy in dealing with people that refuse to see things his way. He
has advanced many arguments, some better than others in my opinion. I respect his resolve in defending what
he sincerely, passionately and steadfastly believes to be the truth. I do believe that his lapses into
bellicosity have harmed his arguments and his persona. I also believe that he allowed Jack White
to frame the debate to an extent by allowing John Armstrong's book to assume such a prominent position
in the JVB/LHO debate. If Jim abandons posting on this thread, I would expect things to drastically
taper down and run out of momentum. I believe that Jim Fetzer has been the gasoline that fueled this engine.

All the other ingredients for a record-breaking thread came together in a perfect storm. There was a contentious,
take one side or the other issue (not dissimilar to body alteration, Zapruder alteration, or two Oswalds*),
involvement of a number of prominent researchers, an irresolvable clash of intellects and egos (certainly not just
Mr Fetzer and Mr White), a diversion into other theories, a predictable devolvement into arguments about motivations,
competence, experience, application of logic, and on and on. All these factors motivated many members to be very
vigorous in their posting.
*(I do not mean to equate these three things with JVB's story in any other respect)

What began as a fundamental disagreement between Jim Fetzer and Jack White quickly escalated into
a situation that resulted in a long-standing friendship becoming severely damaged. By the time David Lifton
entered the fray, it was clear that most members that were posting had made up their minds about Judyth Baker
long ago. This frustrated Jim Fetzer and he began responding to every criticism, no matter by whom. A lot of
researchers and members weighed in. The drama of researchers that can't get along with each other has always
made for long threads. Jim Fetzer's rift (for lack of a better word) with Doug Weldon was startling.

Then Judyth Baker, through Jim, became active in her own defense. This was a catalytic development;
it served to give the thread even more life and momentum.

This thread serves as a fascinating glimpse into the different prisms we all employ when it comes to
viewing events surrounding President Kennedy's murder. I have learned a lot about how certain researchers
and members view things fundamentally and how they react to opposing views.

I think that in respect to the main thrust of this thread, it is important to separate Baker's claims
of having a loving relationship with Lee Oswald from the rest of her story. It is this particular aspect
of her narrative that is so radioactive, so to speak.

When Jim Fetzer initiated this thread it was clear that he was accepting of JVB's story as it pertains to Oswald.
He appeared to be unaware that Ed Haslam's book Dr. Mary's Monkey supported his position. Later in the thread,
he seemed to get up to speed and Haslam's book quickly became one of the major cornerstones of his argument.
Jim has posted the two pertinent chapters that deal with JVB's story.

Maybe partially in response to Jack White's exhortations to read Harvey & Lee, Jim Fetzer wants to make sure that
everyone reads Haslam's book. But as I see it, Haslam really offers little in the way of evidence beyond what is
commonly known and nothing in the way of proof that JVB and LHO were lovers. Ed Haslam urged the readers of
Dr Mary's Monkey to make up their own minds by reading Baker's two-volume book Lee Harvey Oswald. Haslam has
seemingly backed away from that position and is now urging people to wait for Judyth Baker's new book. He has posted
three times (I think) on this thread and has taken the position that discussing the JVB/LHO story will not really be productive
until her new book comes out and people read it. Jim Fetzer didn't really take that advice and instead still chooses to actively
direct readers to Dr Mary's Monkey. That strategy has not been very effective. I must note that earlier in this thread, Jim Fetzer issued me a strong and classy apology for some of the things he said to me. Although I still disagree with him about Dr Mary's Monkey as it pertains to JVB/LHO, he has since said some very nice things about me. I appreciate both.

One of the positive things that has come out of this thread is your joining EF and participating, Greg. I think many
members have appreciated the balanced and informed positions you have taken whether they agree with you or not.
Maybe marriage has mellowed you a little, but I'm glad you still care.
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