27-04-2010, 03:10 AM
JIM REPLIES TO DEAN HAGERMAN ABOUT TRUTH AND JUDYTH VARY BAKER
Judyth eventually sees all the posts on this thread. She has been traveling and will
catch up in the next few days. Your suggestion--that most who are posting do not
seem to believe Judyth--does not mean her story is not true. Indeed, there is much
evidence that supports her, including research by Nigel Turner, Ed Haslam, the crew
at "60 Minutes", Howard Platzman, Dean Hartwell, and many others. As Dean aptly
explained some time back, I have been extremely frustrated to expend so much time
and effort to bring you Judyth's story only to discover that most of those posting on
this forum are not reading or studying the evidence, including DR. MARY'S MONKEY.
Even Jack White, whom I regard as an old and dear friend, has made post after post
based on simple ignorance: of where Ferrie lived, of the location of his apartment as
opposed to the "Little Lab", of the location of the linear particle accelerator, of nature
of the wounds incurred by Mary Sherman, of the lab animals that were being use for
cancer research, and much, much more. Frankly, I expected more from at least some
of those who have posted here, including Jack but also including you. Like many of the
rest of those who have been most critical of Judyth, you seem to derive satisfaction as
the member of a group, where many of you appear to derive a sense of satisfaction in
belittling the evidence, attacking Judyth, and taking whacks at me, over and over again.
A book about 9/11, STRANGER THAN FICTION, which was the subject of my program
tonight, describes this as "the lemming phenomenon", which strikes me a correct. As
the social phenomenon of standing with the group in conformity with the most popular
views, the lemming phenomenon disregards that popularity does not determine truth.
No one who knows me would be surprised that I have no taken this lying down. There
is too much evidence on Judyth's side to be so casually dismissive. Even you, Dean,
have been looking for an easy out. In spite of my repeated entreaties, my impression
is that you have yet to read DR. MARY'S MONKEY, even though you profess to be some-
one who admires my work. Words are cheap, Dean, and until you show me that you
have a better grasp of the evidence than Jack, for example, I can no longer respect you.
I should explain that his has nothing to do with whether or not you ultimately believe in
Judyth. That is a conclusion that each of us had to determine for themselves. My point
is that, unless you have considered the evidence that I have identified, over and over
again, including my blogs about Judyth, the YouTube interviews I have conducted, my
program with Ed Haslam, which has long been posted on my radio program's archives
and on my blogs at http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com, you don't have the right to have
an opinion about Judyth--at least, not one that qualifies as "rational". I spent all those
years teaching students how to think things through, and I am acutely disappointed so
many who have made posts couldn't have passed a freshman course in critical thinking.
You have opinions, but without reviewing the evidence, they can't qualify as good ones.
It pains me to be forced to be critical of old friends like Jack and strong supporters like
you, Dean, but, as I explained to Bernice, among others, if friendships takes precedence
over truth, then there is no truth, only friendships. Reread what Dean Hartwell has done
such an excellent job of explaining. Judyth will have the chance to address these issues
just as she has others. But I have found Jack to be a reliable anti-authority on questions
related to Judyth. If he were right about this one, it would be the first time. So, based on
past experience, I wouldn't get my hopes up. And if you even expect to make a serious
contribution to assassination research, you are going to have to do better at research. In
my opinion, like so many others on this thread, you think you can know which side is up
by listening to others. You may have friends, but you appear to be far removed from truth.
[quote name='Dean Hagerman' post='190942' date='Apr 27 2010, 01:34 AM']
[quote name='Jack White' post='190885' date='Apr 26 2010, 01:49 PM']
Thanks, David. I find the most incredible of the items you list is that JVB was unaware
of the Garrison investigation back in 1967. Every newspaper and magazine and TV
newscast carried details daily. I even bought 3 month subscriptions to the New Orleans
Item and the New Orleans Times-Picayune to get fuller coverage. At that time the
assassination was fresh in everyone's minds, many of the players were still alive, and
even the grocery story tabloids had front page coverage every week. Knowing about
the CONTROVERSIAL Garrison trial was unavoidable. Garrison was even a guest on
the Carson Tonight show.
Someone who had personal acquaintances with David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Clay
Shaw, Lee Oswald, Reily Coffee, et al had to be living on another planet to be UNAWARE
of the Clay Shaw Trial. UNBELIEVABLE!
Jack[/quote]
Jack
This is a great point!
Jim did you miss this? If you did could you please forward it to or make her aware of this post please?
You are on the ball Jack
Jim keeps saying that you should stop because you are discrediting yourself, you are not discrediting yourself in any way in this thread
The only person I see being discredited is Judyth, and Jim is it odd to you that only a small handful of people support Judyth in this thread while a huge number of researchers and students of the case do not believe her in this thread?
Do you wonder why that is?
It is because the affair with LHO NEVER happened
NEVER
If it did happen and Judyth can prove it to me (and I mean really prove it not all this garbage that she has posted for us to take as facts) then I will never post on any JFK forums for the rest of my life
That is a promise from me to you Jim
[/quote]
Judyth eventually sees all the posts on this thread. She has been traveling and will
catch up in the next few days. Your suggestion--that most who are posting do not
seem to believe Judyth--does not mean her story is not true. Indeed, there is much
evidence that supports her, including research by Nigel Turner, Ed Haslam, the crew
at "60 Minutes", Howard Platzman, Dean Hartwell, and many others. As Dean aptly
explained some time back, I have been extremely frustrated to expend so much time
and effort to bring you Judyth's story only to discover that most of those posting on
this forum are not reading or studying the evidence, including DR. MARY'S MONKEY.
Even Jack White, whom I regard as an old and dear friend, has made post after post
based on simple ignorance: of where Ferrie lived, of the location of his apartment as
opposed to the "Little Lab", of the location of the linear particle accelerator, of nature
of the wounds incurred by Mary Sherman, of the lab animals that were being use for
cancer research, and much, much more. Frankly, I expected more from at least some
of those who have posted here, including Jack but also including you. Like many of the
rest of those who have been most critical of Judyth, you seem to derive satisfaction as
the member of a group, where many of you appear to derive a sense of satisfaction in
belittling the evidence, attacking Judyth, and taking whacks at me, over and over again.
A book about 9/11, STRANGER THAN FICTION, which was the subject of my program
tonight, describes this as "the lemming phenomenon", which strikes me a correct. As
the social phenomenon of standing with the group in conformity with the most popular
views, the lemming phenomenon disregards that popularity does not determine truth.
No one who knows me would be surprised that I have no taken this lying down. There
is too much evidence on Judyth's side to be so casually dismissive. Even you, Dean,
have been looking for an easy out. In spite of my repeated entreaties, my impression
is that you have yet to read DR. MARY'S MONKEY, even though you profess to be some-
one who admires my work. Words are cheap, Dean, and until you show me that you
have a better grasp of the evidence than Jack, for example, I can no longer respect you.
I should explain that his has nothing to do with whether or not you ultimately believe in
Judyth. That is a conclusion that each of us had to determine for themselves. My point
is that, unless you have considered the evidence that I have identified, over and over
again, including my blogs about Judyth, the YouTube interviews I have conducted, my
program with Ed Haslam, which has long been posted on my radio program's archives
and on my blogs at http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com, you don't have the right to have
an opinion about Judyth--at least, not one that qualifies as "rational". I spent all those
years teaching students how to think things through, and I am acutely disappointed so
many who have made posts couldn't have passed a freshman course in critical thinking.
You have opinions, but without reviewing the evidence, they can't qualify as good ones.
It pains me to be forced to be critical of old friends like Jack and strong supporters like
you, Dean, but, as I explained to Bernice, among others, if friendships takes precedence
over truth, then there is no truth, only friendships. Reread what Dean Hartwell has done
such an excellent job of explaining. Judyth will have the chance to address these issues
just as she has others. But I have found Jack to be a reliable anti-authority on questions
related to Judyth. If he were right about this one, it would be the first time. So, based on
past experience, I wouldn't get my hopes up. And if you even expect to make a serious
contribution to assassination research, you are going to have to do better at research. In
my opinion, like so many others on this thread, you think you can know which side is up
by listening to others. You may have friends, but you appear to be far removed from truth.
[quote name='Dean Hagerman' post='190942' date='Apr 27 2010, 01:34 AM']
[quote name='Jack White' post='190885' date='Apr 26 2010, 01:49 PM']
Thanks, David. I find the most incredible of the items you list is that JVB was unaware
of the Garrison investigation back in 1967. Every newspaper and magazine and TV
newscast carried details daily. I even bought 3 month subscriptions to the New Orleans
Item and the New Orleans Times-Picayune to get fuller coverage. At that time the
assassination was fresh in everyone's minds, many of the players were still alive, and
even the grocery story tabloids had front page coverage every week. Knowing about
the CONTROVERSIAL Garrison trial was unavoidable. Garrison was even a guest on
the Carson Tonight show.
Someone who had personal acquaintances with David Ferrie, Guy Banister, Clay
Shaw, Lee Oswald, Reily Coffee, et al had to be living on another planet to be UNAWARE
of the Clay Shaw Trial. UNBELIEVABLE!
Jack[/quote]
Jack
This is a great point!
Jim did you miss this? If you did could you please forward it to or make her aware of this post please?
You are on the ball Jack
Jim keeps saying that you should stop because you are discrediting yourself, you are not discrediting yourself in any way in this thread
The only person I see being discredited is Judyth, and Jim is it odd to you that only a small handful of people support Judyth in this thread while a huge number of researchers and students of the case do not believe her in this thread?
Do you wonder why that is?
It is because the affair with LHO NEVER happened
NEVER
If it did happen and Judyth can prove it to me (and I mean really prove it not all this garbage that she has posted for us to take as facts) then I will never post on any JFK forums for the rest of my life
That is a promise from me to you Jim
[/quote]