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Oklahoma City as a Precursor to 911
David Guyatt Wrote:I feel sure that Strassmeir was an intelligence plant. He was former German military and his father was a German politician who I believe was close to former German Chancellor Kohl. The whole thing reeks.

David - I concur. Like you and others on this board, I spoke with David Hoffman and have a lot of respect for his courageous investigation. I visited Oklahoma City shortly after the event, and spoke with a lot of furious police officers.

Carol Howe? Spooooookeeeee....

Andy Strassmeir? Schpooookeeeee....

Elohim City? Implausibly deniable...

Here's David Hoffman's book:

Quote:The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of Terror

David Hoffman:

Quote:Echoing the factitious rants of ATF chief Lester Matz, Governor Frank Keating, and other federal officials in Oklahoma, FBI Director William Webster called the charges of federal complicity "utterly absurd." Although the killers had been recruited, organized and led on their murderous rampage by ATF and FBI operatives, none ever served a day of jail-time.[1176]

Like the FBI's KKK mules, or the ATF's pet Nazis at Elohim City, the Pakistani/Afghani Mujahadeen and Iraqi veterans resettled into the U.S. represent the next wave of "covert cowboys" — ready and willing to do the CIA/FBI's dirty work.

As Gene Wheaton observes: "Every major Middle-Eastern terrorist organization is under surveillance and control of the intelligence agencies in the U.S. None of these guys move around as freely as they'd like you to think."[1177][1178]

Ali Hassan Salameh, the leader of the PLO splinter group Black September, which carried out the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre, was put on the CIA's payroll. That is, until the Mossad caught up with him in 1979. Even so, the Israelis checked with the CIA before killing him.

A Pakistani named Ali Ahmand was standing directly behind Senator Robert Kennedy when he was shot. Former CIA contract agent Robert Morrow saw Ahmand holding a Nikon camera, and recalled seeing Nikon cameras that fired bullets while at the CIA.

Another "valuable asset," Mir Aimal Kansi, had been recruited by the CIA to assist in the smuggling of weapons to the Mujahadeen. Kansi, who had a "financial misunderstanding" with the Agency, resolved the issue by opening fire with an AK-47 outside of CIA headquarters in January of 1993, killing two Agency employees. Like World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef, he fled to Pakistan.[1179][1180]

Curiously, Hussain al-Hussaini — who had been seen speeding away from the bombing in a brown pick-up — would make no similar attempt to flee. Was he part of a government-sanctioned operation? As Professor Bruce Hoffman at the Center fo the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence at St. Andrew's University in England noted, there have been various attempts to infiltrate Islamic terrorist teams in Oklahoma.[1181]

Could this be why FBI Agent Jeffrey Jenkins "cringed" when he saw KFOR's televised report on Hussaini?[1182]*

Did Hussaini and Khalid, like Timothy McVeigh casually pulling over for Patrolman Hanger, believe they were protected?

The FBI's refusal to look at Khalid strongly points to such a possibility. Khalid's ability to monitor the activities of a group of Middle Eastern immigrants (through giving them jobs and renting them homes), and his status as a former felon, make him a likely candidate as an operative or informant.

And why had McVeigh met with Hussaini in the first place? Like Carol Howe and Andreas Strassmeir, were they both acting as undercover operatives, without each other's knowledge?[1183]*

Like McVeigh, Hussaini was most likely recruited into a covert intelligence unit after his resettlement into the U.S. Believing he was working for the government, he was given a cover story that he was preventing a bombing.

It is likely, given the necessary compartmentalization of covert operations, that each was on a "need-to-know" basis. While McVeigh, Hussaini, and their pals parked the Ryder truck in front of the Murrah Building, the real bombers were the third component of the compartmentalized operation.

Recall that five days before the bombing, HUD worker Jane Graham saw three men in the garage who she thought were telephone repairmen. They had plans of the building, and were holding what appeared to be C-4 plastic explosive. "It was a putty color," said Graham, "a solid piece of block.… they had that and they had this wiring.

"The man in the brown shirt obviously knew what he was doing and was in charge…" said Graham. "He reminded me of a surveyor or construction foreman except that I doubt that they would have been in that good of shape. These men were definitely physically well trained."[1184]

Physically well-trained does not sound like McVeigh or Nichols.

The men looked "uncomfortable" when they saw Graham, and quickly put the items into a paper bag and hid it in their car — which was clearly not a utility company vehicle.[1185][1186]

Another witness saw several men working on the pillars in the garage, in the dark, without lights. When they were questioned by this visitor, they said, "We're just putting things right again."

Were they, or were they placing explosive charges to be activated later?

This bizarre activity was seen by at least two other witnesses — IRS worker Kathy Wilburn, and a HUD worker named Joan. None of the "repairmen" matched the description of Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, or Hussain al-Hussaini.[1187]*

Then, on the day of the bombing, twenty minutes before the blast, Michael Linehan saw McVeigh's yellow Mercury run a red light and slip quickly into the building's garage. Why did "McVeigh" need to enter the building moments before the blast? To place secondary charges or activate remote detonators, perhaps?[1188]†

Several minutes later, a woman riding the elevator saw a young Arab man with a backpack frantically pushing the lobby button, as though trying to exit the building.

After the blast, Kay H. was almost run over by a brown pick-up driven by Hussain al-Hussaini. There were three suspects in the truck. At least two of them were Arabs.

Seconds later, Gary Lewis ran outside to see a Middle Eastern man grinning from ear to ear.

Approximately 15 minutes later, HUD employee Germaine Johnston came across McVeigh and John Doe 2 in an alley near the Murrah Building. "They were just standing there watching," she said. McVeigh then asked Johnston if anyone had been killed, and both men looked sad when she told them that children had died.[1189][1190]

If McVeigh had blown up the building — a building he knew to contain a day-care center — as an act of revenge, why would he appear sad? And if Hussain al-Hussaini had conspired with McVeigh for similar motives, why did he cry upon learning that children had been killed?

Moreover, why would he be casually hanging around near the scene of the crime? "…I ask you, does that sound like a man who was running?" said Johnston's friend and co-worker Jane Graham. "I don't think so. It sounds like a plan that went awry or something he did not know was going to happen."[1191]

And those federal agents who had been surveilling the building all night long… why did they appear so shocked when the bomb(s) went off? Because they didn't expect them to go off. As Representative Istook said, John Doe 2, [one of] the government's undercover agents, did not know how to disarm the truck-bomb, which contained a redundant timing device. They didn't know about the charges inside the building.

And the Army leg who helped place the shaped C-4 charges on the building's columns was not advised that he had a zero-time-delay detonator and was going to be vaporized. The leg was on the wrong side of the column when the detonator was activated.[1192]*

Fortunately for the conspirators, the crime scene was leveled to preclude any independent forensic analysis. Federal agents and local officials quickly scrambled to initiate their damage-control operation.[1193]

Those who threatened to reveal the "sting gone bad" were told to keep quiet for "the good of the country." Yes, it was a terrible tragedy. But brave undercover agents like John Doe 2 were safely on the job, just waiting to prevent more "militiamen" like Timothy James McVeigh from blowing up more babies.

Honest law-enforcement personnel like Sergeant Terrance Yeakey, who didn't go along with the cover-up… "committed suicide."

And the American public, was fed a completely different lie. A disgruntled racist and latent neo-Nazi and his anti-government friend, angry over Waco, using a homemade bomb, had vented their rage in a brutal and vicious act of revenge.
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."

Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon

"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
Found these of interest:

Tiffany Bible was a paramedic called to the Murrah Building following the bombing. This affidavit reports three important facts.
1. The ATF were not in the building.
2. That the ATF was already putting out a story that the Murrah Building was bombed "because of Waco" only a few hours after the actual blast and before Tim McVeigh was even arrested.
3. That an unexploded bomb was found attached to a gas line inside the building.

Arlene was a survivor of the bombing. In this press release, issued at the time of her grand jury appearance, she reveals that she was ordered to keep silent about what she knew of the bombing by the Army under threat of court martial.[/SIZE]

This memo, issued 36 hours after the bombing, reports at least two additional bombs were found in the Murrah Building.

Joe Harp, based on his military explosives experience, refutes the ANFO claim and identifies the additional bombs he sees removed from the building as being military in nature.


Virgil Steele is the elevator inspector who discovered that the story told by a senior BATF agent about being trapped in a plummeting elevator was a lie. The elevators were in working order except for being without power, and nobody had been trapped in them. Virgil also sees two additional bombs being removed from the building.

This statement by a survivor tells of three men she saw in the Murrah Building Garage the week prior to the bombing, and the FBI's obvious disinterest in the matter.
"If you're looking for something that isn't there, you're wasting your time and the taxpayers' money."

-Michael Neuman, U.S. Government bureaucrat, on why NIST didn't address explosives in its report on the WTC collapses
These came soon after the bombing. I include commentary in red and other emphases are mine.

The New York Times April 23, 1995, Sunday, Late Edition – Final[/FONT]
Those Who Lived, Mostly Just by Chance, Tell Their Stories[/FONT]
BYLINE: By The New York Times
SECTION: Section 1; Page 34; Column 1; National Desk
LENGTH: 2928 words

4. "The building just started sliding into the street." -- RICHARD S. SLAY Mr. Slay, 49, is an auditor for the Department of Health and Human Services. I arrived at just about 9 o'clock and walked into the Federal building. I walked right over to the elevators, punched the "up" button. I was on the far side, as far away from the street as you can get, standing in front of the elevator. As soon as the doors opened, the air in the elevator shaft started whooshing out. There must have been little pebbles and dirt in the elevator shaft getting sucked up. It pelted my right hand and my right arm, where I was just wearing a button-down shirt -- I had it rolled up. The blast of air came first, and then the explosion.

"The blast of air came first, and then the explosion." A blast of air strong enough to pelt Mr. Slay's arm with pebbles and dirt must certainly have been be caused by compression of the elevator shaft. But "the explosion" came later. The building was already deconstructing before the truck went off.

6. "I was sitting maybe three feet away, and where I usually sat was gone." -- BOBBIE PURVINE Ms. Purvine, 24, worked in the Federal Employees Credit Union on the third floor of the Murrah building. There was no warning of any sort. First it went black, and I thought the electricity had just gone off, because we don't have any windows on that side and it had done that before. Then stuff started falling, and smoke, the nastiest-smelling smell, like burnt tar. I'm a teller, and I wasn't at my station because I was posting mail. And the tellers, where they were had collapsed. I was sitting maybe three feet away, and where I usually sat was gone.

"First it went black, and I thought the electricity had just gone off...Then stuff started falling, and smoke, the nastiest-smelling smell, like burnt tar." Notice the latency between the room going black and the destruction? That certainly is not the description of one bomb that takes out half the building. Something took out the power before the main bomb(s) did their damage.

Here're are some VERY interesting clippings from
other media after the blast.
(Emphases mine)

The Philadelphia Inquirer
APRIL 20, 1995 Thursday FINAL EDITION


BYLINE: Joseph A. Slobodzian, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER, Inquirer staff writer Jeff Gelles contributed to this article.
LENGTH: 791 words

At other federal offices, colleagues worried about people they knew who worked in the Murrah building.
At the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms office in the historic Customs House at Second and Chestnut Streets, Robert F. Graham, the assistant agent in charge, was on the phone trying to find out the status of the bureau's small Oklahoma City office, on the ninth floor of the ruined building.
All 10 agents and support staff were accounted for, Graham said, but one agent was known to be trapped on the ninth floor. By mid-afternoon, said ATF agent Stephen T. Haskins, the bureau here got some of the sparse good news to come out of Oklahoma City. The colleague had been found uninjured, trapped in an elevator.

Daily News (New York) April 20, 1995, Thursday
BYLINE: By MICHAEL DALY Daily News Columnist
SECTION: News Pg. 25
LENGTH: 707 words

...Only greater horror lay below. The blast that had shredded the front of the building had also torn into a day care center on the second floor. Espe had often ridden the elevator with the children who now had been left mangled and screaming.
One other adult who had been as lucky as Espe was the local agent in charge of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The agent had been in an elevator at the time of the blast, and he had plummeted several floors. He walked away in good enough shape to call his supervisors, and the agents agreed what had happened.
Back in July 1994, ATF agents had flown to Argentina to help investigate the car bombing of a building where several Jewish organizations were headquartered. A white Renault van packed with explosives had proven able to tear the front off the structure, killing 95 and injuring 200.
What happened to the federal building in Oklahoma City was nearly identical. [Worth looking into. Maybe a precursor to a precursor?] The hunt for these other car bombers was already beginning as Espe and the other survivors were helped from the scene.

April 20, 1995
Morning Edition (NPR 6:00 am ET)
A Live Report From Oklahoma City
GUESTS: Rev. LARRY JONES, Director and Founder, Feed the Children
SECTION: News; Domestic
LENGTH: 992 words
HIGHLIGHT: Wade Goodwyn reports live from Oklahoma City, site of the terrorist bomb attack yesterday. He talks of eyewitness accounts and the efforts being made by volunteer and relief groups to help the many injured.

BOB EDWARDS: What stories have you heard from rescue workers?

WADE GOODWYN: Well, it's- it's hard to imagine that the- that the effects of a bomb of this size has on- on- on the human body. I've heard stories about- from people who were a few blocks away and who felt a- the effects of the concussion. Reporters have talked about the fact that- that eardrums, people who were two or three blocks away, immediately burst upon impact, and a number of people have been blinded by the effects of the concussion on their optical nerves, and doctors don't know whether or not they're going to get their sight back.[ WTF???] And these are people who were otherwise untouched by the effects of the blast. One witness told me a story about he was on the scene within 15 minutes after it happened and he saw a man being led away by rescue workers. From the front he seemed completely- perfectly dressed, but as- as he passed you, all of his clothes in the back had been torn away, and he again had- had been otherwise untouched by glass or debris. He was not bleeding, it was just the- the effects of the concussion.

Daily News (New York) April 24, 1995, Monday
SECTION: News Pg. 2
LENGTH: 776 words

Once, Timothy McVeigh was a child, too. For some reason, visitors to the ceremony here were struck by that thought yesterday as teddy bears were handed to the mothers of the children McVeigh allegedly slaughtered. He had a mother, too, who was once joyful at the thought of him but later quit him and his father to live in Florida. Twenty-seven years ago yesterday he was born. Now his birthday a day that once meant the celebration of Timothy McVeigh is a national day of mourning.
We live in a time of kooks. We enable them, and allow them to carry on, with our freedom of speech.
They are the waste product of democracy. The child who the feds say grew into a bomber and filled a city with teddy bears was not born with a chip on his shoulder.
Once, McVeigh was as pure and right as the children the feds say he bombed. Hate is an acquired trait. So is madness. By the time McVeigh got out of the Army after the Gulf War, the chip was secure on his shoulder. So was the madness. Reportedly he has told a friend that the Army implanted a computer chip in his body.
"If you're looking for something that isn't there, you're wasting your time and the taxpayers' money."

-Michael Neuman, U.S. Government bureaucrat, on why NIST didn't address explosives in its report on the WTC collapses
This harkens back to the attempted Carter assassination where the two perpetrators were Raymond Lee Harvey and Osvaldo Ortiz. At least we can't claim that The Powers That Be don't have a sense of humor...
[Emphases mine]

July 7, 1995
NEWS 8:16 pm ET
Book Shares Similar Facts of Oklahoma City Bombing
SECTION: News; Domestic
LENGTH: 516 words

HIGHLIGHT: Martin Keating is the author of "The Final Jihad", a book which has eery similarities to the bombing in Oklahoma City. The author is already planning a sequel. He is the brother of Oklahoma's governor.

LINDEN SOLES, Anchor: The Oklahoma City bombing has been re-told in books and magazines. But a book written four years ago has some haunting similarities to the actual tragedy. Even more ironic, the book's author is the brother of Oklahoma's governor.

Here's CNN's Tony Clark.

TONY CLARK, Correspondent: When a bomb destroyed the federal building in Oklahoma City, Martin Keating was personally shocked and grieved. But as an author, he was not completely surprised.

Four years ago, Keating finished writing a novel called The Final Jihad. It deals with terrorist bombings across the U.S. The terrorists in Keating's book are based in Oklahoma.

MARTIN KEATING, Author, 'The Final Jihad': The reason I based my terrorists in Oklahoma was precisely that, because it was a place you would overlook. And this would be an ideal place.

TONY CLARK: The similarities between fact and fiction are striking. For example, the prime bombing suspect in the Oklahoma City bombing is named Tim McVeigh. One of Keating's characters is Tom McVeigh. In real life, McVeigh was arrested by highway patrol trooper Charlie Hanger for a traffic violation. In the novel -

MARTIN KEATING: We also have a highway patrolman who, doing his job, pulls over a suspicious vehicle and he makes a discovery, which at the time he doesn't understand fully the significance of, and it breaks the case open. Of course, that happened in real life with Charlie Hanger.

TONY CLARK: Keating started his as of yet unpublished novel in 1988. Over the years, he's had to make several revisions, as fictional events he wrote about became reality- the fall of the Berlin Wall; Gorbachev's resignation and the breakup of the Soviet Union; the attack on the World Trade Center, and an airplane crashing into the White House.

MARTIN KEATING: When those things happened, I had to go back and change the book, make past tense out of what I had as future tense.

TONY CLARK: However, Keating's bombers were international terrorists financed by hard line communists, a group not suspected in the real bombing. But the similarities between Keating's fiction and reality have been grist for the Internet, fueling the suspicion of some conspiracy theorists.

Some even see a conspiracy connection because Keating's brother is Oklahoma's governor.

Gov. FRANK KEATING (R-OK): You know there are silly people who say silly things. There are dumb people who do dumb things, and to suggest that there is any connection or similarity is very, very remote.

[More remote than...Tim McVeigh...Tom McVeigh?!]

TONY CLARK: The author, Martin Keating, is already planning a sequel to The Final Jihad. Because at the end of The Final Jihad, one of the bad guys gets away. That's one piece of Keating's fiction people here hope doesn't come true.

Tony Clark, CNN, Oklahoma City.

[Too late...they all got away.]
"If you're looking for something that isn't there, you're wasting your time and the taxpayers' money."

-Michael Neuman, U.S. Government bureaucrat, on why NIST didn't address explosives in its report on the WTC collapses
The independent report on the bombing of the Murrah Building by Brigadier General Partin, UFAF retired is essential reading in any thread on the OKC bombing.

The following is Partin's bio:

Quote:Resume of Brig. Gen. Partin USAF (ret.)
8908 Captains Row
Alexandria, Virginia 22308
(703) 780-7652
Biographical Notes

Thirty one years active duty in the Air Force. Progressively responsible executive, scientific and technical assignments directing organizations engaged in research, development, testing, analysis, requirements generation and acquisition management of weapons systems. Assignments from laboratory to the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

Personal contributions made in the fields of research and development management, weapon system concepts, guided weapons technology, target acquisition aids, focused energy weapons, operations research and joint service harmonization of requirements. Retired as a Brigadier General.

White House appointed Special Assistant to the Administrator, Federal Aviation Administration. Personally designated to prepare the White Paper on the Federal Aviation Administration for the 1989 Presidential Transition Team. This included development of policy initiatives on FAA/USAF joint use of the Global Positioning System (GPS), operational life for commercial aircraft, antiterrorism, airport and airway capacity, requirements in the FAA acquisition process and FAA leadership and management development.

Military Command Pilot and Command Missleman with 4000 hours (37 combat.)

Education: B.S. Chemical Engineering; M.S. Aeronautical Engineering; Ph.D. Candidate, Operations Research & Statistics (Academics Completed.)


Sino-Soviet Conflict. Competition and cooperation: Risks in Force Structure Planning A Reduced Upper Limit for Sequential Test Truncation Error. Frequent TV Talk Shows on the Voice of Freedom.

Honors: Distinguished Service Medal, Legion of Merit thrice, Distinguished Graduate - Air War College

Community Affairs:

Chairman, United States Defense Committee

Member of the Board, In Touch Missions International

Member of the Board, Front Line Fellowship

Founding Chairman of the School Board, Engleside Christian School

Washington Representative for the Association of Christian Schools

International (1981-1983)

Chairman Fairfax County Republican Party (1982-1986)

Lifelong Professional Challenge: Continuing studies and analyses to anticipate and forecast the future course of world military/political/economic transforming processes.

General Partin's report can be read HERE
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14

1990s Precedents for 9/11/01

The 1990s saw several deceptions used as pretexts for wars and the advancement of police-state aparatuses.
While none of these incidents shares all of the most important features with the 9/11/01 attack, each has several important parallels. The most direct precedent to the 9/11/01 attack was the Oklahoma City bombing. In both case most of the damage was produced by hidden explosives but blamed on a diversion. Consider this comparison:

OKC 1995
collapse produced by internal explosives
explained as progressive collapse

WTC 2001 collapse produced by internal explosives
explained as progressive collapse

OKC 1995 AMFO truck bomb
WTC 2001 767 crashes

OKC 1995 patsies Timothy McVeih and Terry Nichols
WTC 2001 patsies Mohammad Atta,

OKC 1995 absent during attack: FBI and ATF personnel
WTC 2001 absent during attack: CEOs

OKC 1995 evidence handling: rubble buried without analysis; surveillance tapes suppressed by FBI steel recycled without analysis;
WTC 2001
evidence handling: Ground Zero photographs prohibited; Pentagon surveillance tapes suppressed by FBI

OKC 1995 legislation passed in wake of: Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996
WTC 2001
legislation passed in wake of: USA PATRIOT Act of 2001

Kevin Ryan notes an additional parallel in A New Standard For Deception : In both cases a small group of engineers provided a report supporting the official story, and in both cases the small group was composed mostly of the same individuals.
"If you're looking for something that isn't there, you're wasting your time and the taxpayers' money."

-Michael Neuman, U.S. Government bureaucrat, on why NIST didn't address explosives in its report on the WTC collapses
Bruce Clemens Wrote:...

I'm amazed that the Kuwaiti Incubator Hoax doesn't get more attention. Wag the Dog.
This sounds very hopeful up front...a media person who has doubts about the official account at the time of the bombing and is not afraid to attack it. She should get an Emmy...

But on further looking I see:

She's selling a book and I wonder if she's a gold digger or a patriot.
I wonder if anyone on this forum has looked into her and if you can tell me whether she is worth contacting?
"If you're looking for something that isn't there, you're wasting your time and the taxpayers' money."

-Michael Neuman, U.S. Government bureaucrat, on why NIST didn't address explosives in its report on the WTC collapses
See "Lee Harvey Oswald met with KGB 'wet operations' director Kostikov in Mexico City."

See "Muhammed Atta met with Al Queda operatives in Prague."

It's Triple-C time again: Confuse, Condition, Control.

(As opposed to Limited Hang-Out time -- but enough about Dick Cheney at the schoolyard fence.)

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