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November 22, 1963: The 1963 coup in which President Kennedy is murdered in the US
#1
November 22 is the anniversary of the coup that removed the last US president that represented the people, and plunged the world into darkness from which we have not yet emerged.

The best summary is in "JFK and the Unspeakable" by James W. Douglass.

The entire panel discussion with James Douglass, Oliver Stone and Lisa Pease is on YouTube in five parts:

1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUovOtDBY...re=related

2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6ZCAT4o...re=related

3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFKV42u2k...re=related

4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7pf6BSGh...re=related

5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbK8HK7-0...re=related

Copied from the above YouTube links by marco310b:

"A panel discussion with author James W. Douglass (JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE: WHY HE DIED AND WHY IT MATTERS), filmmaker Oliver Stone (JFK) and noted JFK researcher Lisa Pease. Moderated by: Robert Ellsberg (son of Daniel Ellsberg).

Recorded on November 8, 2010 (the 50th anniversary of the election of JFK) at the Saban Theatre, Los Angeles.

At the height of the Cold War, JFK risked committing the greatest crime in human history: starting a nuclear war. Horrified by the specter of nuclear annihilation, Kennedy gradually turned away from his long-held Cold Warrior beliefs and toward a policy of lasting peace. But to the military and intelligence agencies in the U.S., who were committed to winning the Cold War at any cost, Kennedy's change of heart was a direct threat to their power and influence. Once these dark "Unspeakable" forces recognized that Kennedy's interests were in opposition to their own, they tagged him as a dangerous traitor, plotted his assassination, and orchestrated the subsequent cover-up."
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#2
That's the size of it Myra. November 22 is a sad day and should be commemorated.

Personally I doubt JFK was ever a cold war warrior. In 1960 he exploited public fear of the missile gap because he wanted to win the Presidency. He couldn't implement changes if he lost the election.
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#3
A sad day I remember well 47 years ago in Mrs. Fisher's Science Class, when the Principal if the school came in crying, silently plugged in a radio, left it on and left the room in uncontrollable tears. They killed JFK and they killed America and it has never recovered - in fact it has been on a very sharp downhill slide ever since, directly related to the fact that those behind it [and hundreds if not thousands of political assassinations] were never held responsible and secretly run the Country [or Crime Syndicate] still...in fact their grip on the levers of power and propaganda has never been so complete. Solve it [it is solved]; get it out 'there [AHA, that is our problem!]; or die soon as a serf on your knees - as likely as not in a concentration camp if you are like most of us on this Forum.....it is THAT bad, IMO. A few years more....the System is NOT self-correcting! It must be fought by the largest number or persons possible worldwide and with everything we have.....by any means necessary...it is them or us. Choose. A sad day indeed! A successful coup d'etat in the most powerful nation on Earth - and a secret one.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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#4
Mark Stapleton Wrote:That's the size of it Myra. November 22 is a sad day and should be commemorated.

Personally I doubt JFK was ever a cold war warrior. In 1960 he exploited public fear of the missile gap because he wanted to win the Presidency. He couldn't implement changes if he lost the election.

According to Douglass in his book, when Kennedy got his first briefing on the status of the missile gap after arriving in office, his response at being told by an advisor that there actually was no missile gap was a "single word expletive," said in annoyance/anger.
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#5
Mark Stapleton Wrote:Personally I doubt JFK was ever a cold war warrior.

Mark,

You've hit upon the KEY element in understanding John and, for that matter, Robert Kennedy.

Even though you're dead wrong.

Neither man entered the world fully grown -- physically, intellectually, or spiritually.

Noam Chomsky's assassination analysis fails because it is predicated on the notion that humans cannot evolve as thinkers and as spiritual beings.

The greatness of John Fitzgerald Kennedy may be measured in direct proportion to his evolution in those areas -- especially the latter.

Charles
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#6
Charles Drago Wrote:Noam Chomsky's assassination analysis fails because it is predicated on the notion that humans cannot evolve as thinkers and as spiritual beings.

The greatness of John Fitzgerald Kennedy may be measured in direct proportion to his evolution in those areas -- especially the latter.

Charles

Precisely.
"It means this War was never political at all, the politics was all theatre, all just to keep the people distracted...."
"Proverbs for Paranoids 4: You hide, They seek."
"They are in Love. Fuck the War."

Gravity's Rainbow, Thomas Pynchon

"Ccollanan Pachacamac ricuy auccacunac yahuarniy hichascancuta."
The last words of the last Inka, Tupac Amaru, led to the gallows by men of god & dogs of war
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#7
Peter Lemkin Wrote:A sad day I remember well 47 years ago in Mrs. Fisher's Science Class, when the Principal if the school came in crying, silently plugged in a radio, left it on and left the room in uncontrollable tears. They killed JFK and they killed America and it has never recovered - in fact it has been on a very sharp downhill slide ever since, directly related to the fact that those behind it [and hundreds if not thousands of political assassinations] were never held responsible and secretly run the Country [or Crime Syndicate] still...in fact their grip on the levers of power and propaganda has never been so complete. Solve it [it is solved]; get it out 'there [AHA, that is our problem!]; or die soon as a serf on your knees - as likely as not in a concentration camp if you are like most of us on this Forum.....it is THAT bad, IMO. A few years more....the System is NOT self-correcting! It must be fought by the largest number or persons possible worldwide and with everything we have.....by any means necessary...it is them or us. Choose. A sad day indeed! A successful coup d'etat in the most powerful nation on Earth - and a secret one.


How ironic... My own memory was of a French class at prep school taught by a fellow from Czechslovakia. The bells in the campus church carillon tolled 43 and we got a tear-filled lecture not in French but in liberty. It was the first seed; it required quiet nurturing. Decades later, I am here with you all. Thanks, Myra, for the links to those videos. Thanks to all of us who labor in the deep political research mines. Perhaps the best way I can commemorate the man is to continue the work of learning more about modern-day sequelae,
"Where is the intersection between the world's deep hunger and your deep gladness?"
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#8
Charles Drago Wrote:
Mark Stapleton Wrote:Personally I doubt JFK was ever a cold war warrior.

Mark,

You've hit upon the KEY element in understanding John and, for that matter, Robert Kennedy.

Even though you're dead wrong.

Neither man entered the world fully grown -- physically, intellectually, or spiritually.

Noam Chomsky's assassination analysis fails because it is predicated on the notion that humans cannot evolve as thinkers and as spiritual beings.

The greatness of John Fitzgerald Kennedy may be measured in direct proportion to his evolution in those areas -- especially the latter.

Charles

Of course you're right about JFK's evolution during those thousand days Charles.

The reason I believe he never was a cold warrior is because he was championing independence movements long before he won high office. His speech in 1956 supporting Algerian independence didn't win him many friends inside the French or Israeli Governments.

It seems incongruous to me that he could do this and still be a genuine cold war warrior.

I know some of his public comments, especially during the 1960 campaign, indicated he was a cold warrior but I think he was just playing the game for political expediency without really believing in it. The seeds of his spiritual and intellectual evolution were there from the early days.

Just my opinion.
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#9
Mark Stapleton Wrote:That's the size of it Myra. November 22 is a sad day and should be commemorated.

Personally I doubt JFK was ever a cold war warrior. In 1960 he exploited public fear of the missile gap because he wanted to win the Presidency. He couldn't implement changes if he lost the election.


Mark: Jim DiEugenio has made a compelling case for that point. I wish we could get him to post here.

Dawn
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#10
Dawn Meredith Wrote:
Mark Stapleton Wrote:That's the size of it Myra. November 22 is a sad day and should be commemorated.

Personally I doubt JFK was ever a cold war warrior. In 1960 he exploited public fear of the missile gap because he wanted to win the Presidency. He couldn't implement changes if he lost the election.


Mark: Jim DiEugenio has made a compelling case for that point. I wish we could get him to post here.

Dawn

Can you point me to where I could find it Dawn?

btw, the JFK speech on Algerian independence was in July 1957, not 1956 as I stated earlier.
According to Arthur Schlesinger Jnr's 'A Thousand Days' this speech brought Kennedy more mail than any other he made in the Senate. It also earned the ire of the CFR, New York Times, Dept. of State and several fellow politicians. But it earned him many friends in Africa.

JFK's criticism of America's support for France's refusal to accept Algerian self determination doesn't seem to be typical behavior of a cold war warrior in 1957, although the two issues are directly related only insofar as I believe the Soviets broadly supported Algerian nationalism.

A cold war warrior describes a person who favored direct confrontation and even war with the Soviets during the cold war. To place Kennedy--before or after becoming President-- in the same category as a full blown psychotic like General Curtis LeMay is a bit rich I think.

Kennedy often said that a nuclear war would represent the ultimate failure of his administration and there is no evidence to suggest he thought the opposite prior to becoming President.
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