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View Full Version : Mariyln Monroe was murdered on this day.....



Peter Lemkin
08-03-2012, 04:08 PM
It reads:

Wiretape of telephone conversation between reporter Dorothy Kilgallen and her close friend, Howard Rothberg (A); from wiretap of telephone conversation of Marilyn Monroe and Attorney General Robert Kennedy (B). Appraisal of Content: [A portion redacted.]

1. Rothberg discussed the apparent comeback of subject with Kilgallen and the break up with the Kennedys. Rothberg told Kilgallen that she was attending Hollywood parties hosted by the "inner circle" among Hollywood's elite and was becoming the talk of the town again. Rothberg indicated in so many words, that she had secrets to tell, no doubt arising from her trists [sic] with the President and the Attorney General. One such "secret" mentions the visit by the President at a secret air base for the purpose of inspecting things from outer space. Kilgallen replied that she knew what might be the source of visit. In the mid-fifties Kilgallen learned of secret effort by US and UK governments to identify the origins of crashed spacecraft and dead bodies, from a British government official. Kilgallen believed the story may have come from the New Mexico story in the late forties. Kilgallen said that if the story is true, it would cause terrible embarrassment for Jack and his plans to have NASA put men on the moon.

2. Subject repeatedly called the Attorney General and complained about the way she was being ignored by the President and his brother.

3. Subject threatened to hold a press conference and would tell all.

4. Subject made reference to "bases" in Cuba and knew of the President's plan to kill Castro.

5. Subject made reference to her "diary of secrets" and what the newspapers would do with such disclosures.

[An indented block of text is redacted near the bottom of the page, and the document is signed JAMES ANGLETON, who at the time was the Chief of Counterintelligence for the CIA.]This document is dated just days before her murder.

3916

Seamus Coogan
08-06-2012, 01:53 AM
It reads:

Wiretape of telephone conversation between reporter Dorothy Kilgallen and her close friend, Howard Rothberg (A); from wiretap of telephone conversation of Marilyn Monroe and Attorney General Robert Kennedy (B). Appraisal of Content: [A portion redacted.]

1. Rothberg discussed the apparent comeback of subject with Kilgallen and the break up with the Kennedys. Rothberg told Kilgallen that she was attending Hollywood parties hosted by the "inner circle" among Hollywood's elite and was becoming the talk of the town again. Rothberg indicated in so many words, that she had secrets to tell, no doubt arising from her trists [sic] with the President and the Attorney General. One such "secret" mentions the visit by the President at a secret air base for the purpose of inspecting things from outer space. Kilgallen replied that she knew what might be the source of visit. In the mid-fifties Kilgallen learned of secret effort by US and UK governments to identify the origins of crashed spacecraft and dead bodies, from a British government official. Kilgallen believed the story may have come from the New Mexico story in the late forties. Kilgallen said that if the story is true, it would cause terrible embarrassment for Jack and his plans to have NASA put men on the moon.

2. Subject repeatedly called the Attorney General and complained about the way she was being ignored by the President and his brother.

3. Subject threatened to hold a press conference and would tell all.

4. Subject made reference to "bases" in Cuba and knew of the President's plan to kill Castro.

5. Subject made reference to her "diary of secrets" and what the newspapers would do with such disclosures.

[An indented block of text is redacted near the bottom of the page, and the document is signed JAMES ANGLETON, who at the time was the Chief of Counterintelligence for the CIA.]This document is dated just days before her murder.

3916

Hello Peter its old 'annoying me again'. You may want to check out this article here. http://www.ctka.net/2011/MJ-12-pt1.html. This worthless piece of paper is regarded as the first of the JFK-MJ/12 documents. Like the rest of them they were considered to be faked by a guy called Tim Cooper in about 1992-1993. This was done in cahoots with two guys with US intel backgrounds at the time called Mike Collins and Richard Doty.

Vasilios Vazakas
08-06-2012, 07:58 AM
Do we know if Marylin Monroe was murdered and why?

Seamus Coogan
08-06-2012, 08:32 AM
There's a lot of theories going around as you know. Marijane Grey is one of the best Marilyn researchers and has an interesting take on her and believes her psychologist and his family were implicated. She totally bagged the whole Chuck Giancana bullshit. Another good one you can try and check out is Spoto's book which is pretty good. Though he is light on a potential murder going more along the lines of an accidental death. The Grey Spoto paradigm is a good place to be in. I'd like to point out that sweet FA Marilyn fans/researchers buy into the idea of the Kennedy's being involved. Further dudes like Wolfe and Slatzer are regarded as low lifes in the Monroe zone. Monroe fans are the best ones to ask methinks. lol. Grey can be found in Part I of the piece I sent Pete in the link. Spoto's book maybe online somewhere, I've read as many excerpts of it as I can. Best of luck finding it. That's pretty much regarded as the definitive word on the subject or her life. Jim did a good job on the Posthumous assassination of JFK.

Magda Hassan
08-06-2012, 08:35 AM
There's a lot of theories going around as you know. Maryjane Grey is one of the best Marilyn researchers and has an interesting take on her and believes her psychologist and his family were implicated. She totally bagged the whole Chuck Giancana bullshit. Another good one you can try and check out is Spoto's book which is pretty good. Though he is light on a potential murder going more along the lines of an accidental death. Regardless sweet FA Marilyn fans/researchers buy into the idea of the Kennedy's being involved. They're the ones to ask methinks lol. Grey can be found in Part I of the piece I sent Pete in the link. Spoto's book maybe online somewhere, I've read as many excerpts of it as I can. Best of luck finding it. That's pretty much regarded as the definitive word on the subject.
So, Anthony Summers is not good on this subject matter?

Seamus Coogan
08-06-2012, 08:41 AM
There's a lot of theories going around as you know. Maryjane Grey is one of the best Marilyn researchers and has an interesting take on her and believes her psychologist and his family were implicated. She totally bagged the whole Chuck Giancana bullshit. Another good one you can try and check out is Spoto's book which is pretty good. Though he is light on a potential murder going more along the lines of an accidental death. Regardless sweet FA Marilyn fans/researchers buy into the idea of the Kennedy's being involved. They're the ones to ask methinks lol. Grey can be found in Part I of the piece I sent Pete in the link. Spoto's book maybe online somewhere, I've read as many excerpts of it as I can. Best of luck finding it. That's pretty much regarded as the definitive word on the subject.
So, Anthony Summers is not good on this subject matter?

Nope Magda not as good as Grey and Spoto no way at all. Nonetheless, he didn't use the MJ-12 Documents.

Peter Lemkin
08-06-2012, 09:16 AM
You may well be correct that that document is a fake. MM is not a primary research focus of mine, but in my readings on JFK, RFK and covert ops, generally it seems to me that the evidence points to a CIA-Mafia plot to kill her [likely using poison suppositories after drugging her unconscious]. The motive would have been to implicate and/or compromise JFK, RFK, or both. I can't believe her psychiatrist was involved and have never before heard anything along that line.

Magda Hassan
08-06-2012, 09:29 AM
Yes, I have heard of the suppository too. There was not much to be found in the stomach contents for anything to have been ingested that way. I've definitely heard of the doctor being involved and seems like fertile grounds.

Seamus Coogan
08-06-2012, 09:43 AM
You may well be correct that that document is a fake. MM is not a primary research focus of mine, but in my readings on JFK, RFK and covert ops, generally it seems to me that the evidence points to a CIA-Mafia plot to kill her [likely using poison suppositories after drugging her unconscious]. The motive would have been to implicate and/or compromise JFK, RFK, or both. I can't believe her psychiatrist was involved and have never before heard anything along that line.

The sources for a CIA/Mafia plot to blackmail the Kennedy's via her death has been entertained. I'm not completely opposed to the idea, I have a bit of respect for Tony Summers. The big problem I have with all of it Pete is that the source material for it really isn't strong. In Monroe circles there's actually a lot of suspicion about her therapist and the house cleaner. I'll tell you one book to avoid is the Chuck Giancana book lol. Anyhow Pete here's an excellent article by Grey.

http://immortalmarilyn.com/TwilightTheMythsOfAugustFifth.html

Charles Drago
08-06-2012, 01:06 PM
Yes, I have heard of the suppository too. There was not much to be found in the stomach contents for anything to have been ingested that way. I've definitely heard of the doctor being involved and seems like fertile grounds.

It was a Texas School Book Suppository.

Magda Hassan
08-06-2012, 01:28 PM
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Yes, I have heard of the suppository too. There was not much to be found in the stomach contents for anything to have been ingested that way. I've definitely heard of the doctor being involved and seems like fertile grounds.

It was a Texas School Book Suppository.

Peter Lemkin
08-06-2012, 02:13 PM
Yes, I have heard of the suppository too. There was not much to be found in the stomach contents for anything to have been ingested that way. I've definitely heard of the doctor being involved and seems like fertile grounds.

I personally interviewed Naguchi [mostly about RFK related things], but also asked if he looked in her colon for any signs of anything [he said no, and he regretted not doing so], or if he had looked for unusual poisons in her body [he said no, and that he regretted not doing so...i.e. he no longer believed it was just a self-inflicted OD.]

Seamus Coogan
08-06-2012, 04:00 PM
Yes, I have heard of the suppository too. There was not much to be found in the stomach contents for anything to have been ingested that way. I've definitely heard of the doctor being involved and seems like fertile grounds.

I personally interviewed Naguchi [mostly about RFK related things], but also asked if he looked in her colon for any signs of anything [he said no, and he regretted not doing so], or if he had looked for unusual poisons in her body [he said no, and that he regretted not doing so...i.e. he no longer believed it was just a self-inflicted OD.]

That's actually quite valuable information Peter, it's been awhile since I read the bullshit by Slatzer, Wolfe and Speriglio but if I recall they all talked a lot of shit about what Noguchi supposedly said or what he examined. Thanks for that as said its very interesting. What was the date?

Peter Lemkin
08-06-2012, 07:32 PM
Yes, I have heard of the suppository too. There was not much to be found in the stomach contents for anything to have been ingested that way. I've definitely heard of the doctor being involved and seems like fertile grounds.

I personally interviewed Noguchi [mostly about RFK related things], but also asked if he looked in her colon for any signs of anything [he said no, and he regretted not doing so], or if he had looked for unusual poisons in her body [he said no, and that he regretted not doing so...i.e. he no longer believed it was just a self-inflicted OD.]

That's actually quite valuable information Peter, it's been awhile since I read the bullshit by Slatzer, Wolfe and Speriglio but if I recall they all talked a lot of shit about what Noguchi supposedly said or what he examined. Thanks for that as said its very interesting. What was the date?

Date...wow!....really challenging the aging neurons now......! It would be [approx.] 20-22 years ago, to the best of my memory. I have notes on the interview somewhere, but on an OLD hard drive I haven't even put into my computer in decades. I'm sure however, of my memory of the discussion. He was surprisingly easy to get an appointment with and forthcoming with information. With RFK he felt he did a good job, though had been hampered in minor ways by the LAPD; on MM he got [what I interpreted as] embarrassed, as he realized he didn't [in hindsight] do all he could have and was trained to do with her autopsy. I asked the questions mentioned above point blank and he took a deep breath, long pause and said no with deep regret in his voice. He too had heard that there was discussion/rumor of a poison suppository, but couldn't opine on it and felt badly about that.

Magda Hassan
12-30-2012, 12:16 PM
FBI files on Marilyn Monroe that could not be located earlier this year have been found and re-issued, revealing the names of some of the movie star's communist-leaning friends who drew concern from government officials and her own entourage.

But the records, which previously had been heavily redacted, do not contain any new information about Monroe's death 50 years ago. Letters and news clippings included in the files show the bureau was aware of theories the actress had been killed, but they do not show that any effort was undertaken to investigate the claims. Los Angeles authorities concluded Monroe's death was a probable suicide.
Recently obtained by The Associated Press through the Freedom of Information Act, the updated FBI files do show the extent the agency was monitoring Monroe for ties to communism in the years before her death in August 1962.
The records reveal that some in Monroe's inner circle were concerned about her association with Frederick Vanderbilt Field, who was disinherited from his wealthy family over his leftist views.
A trip to Mexico earlier that year to shop for furniture brought Monroe in contact with Field, who was living in the country with his wife in self-imposed exile. Informants reported to the FBI that a "mutual infatuation" had developed between Field and Monroe, which caused concern among some in her inner circle, including her therapist, the files state.
"This situation caused considerable dismay among Miss Monroe's entourage and also among the (American Communist Group in Mexico)," the file states. It includes references to an interior decorator who worked with Monroe's analyst reporting her connection to Field to the doctor.
http://prod.static9.net.au/~/media/images/2012/december/29/2912_monroe2_a.ashx?h=228&w=403Playwright Arthur Miller and his wife Marilyn Monroe. (AAP)

Field's autobiography devotes an entire chapter to Monroe's Mexico trip, titled An Indian Summer Interlude. He mentions that he and his wife accompanied Monroe on shopping trips and meals and he only mentions politics once in a passage on their dinnertime conversations.
"She talked mostly about herself and some of the people who had been or still were important to her," Field wrote in From Right to Left.
"She told us about her strong feelings for civil rights, for black equality, as well as her admiration for what was being done in China, her anger at red-baiting and McCarthyism and her hatred of (FBI director) J Edgar Hoover."
Under Hoover's watch, the FBI kept tabs on the political and social lives of many celebrities, including Frank Sinatra, Charlie Chaplin and Monroe's ex-husband Arthur Miller. The bureau has also been involved in numerous investigations about crimes against celebrities, including threats against Elizabeth Taylor, an extortion case involving Clark Gable and more recently, trying to solve who killed rapper Notorious BIG.
The AP had sought the removal of redactions from Monroe's FBI files earlier this year as part of a series of stories on the 50th anniversary of Monroe's death. The FBI had reported that it had transferred the files to a National Archives facility in Maryland, but archivists said the documents had not been received. A few months after requesting details on the transfer, the FBI released an updated version of the files that eliminate dozens of redactions.
For years, the files have intrigued investigators, biographers and those who don't believe Monroe's death at her Los Angeles area home was a suicide.
http://prod.static9.net.au/~/media/images/2012/december/29/2912_monroe3_a.ashx?h=228&w=403An FBI file about Marilyn Monroe. (AAP)

A 1982 investigation by the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office found no evidence of foul play after reviewing all available investigative records, but noted that the FBI files were "heavily censored."
That characterisation intrigued the man who performed Monroe's autopsy, Dr Thomas Noguchi. While the DA investigation concluded he conducted a thorough autopsy, Noguchi has conceded that no one will likely ever know all the details of Monroe's death. The FBI files and confidential interviews conducted with the actress' friends that have never been made public might help, he wrote in his 1983 memoir Coroner.
"On the basis of my own involvement in the case, beginning with the autopsy, I would call Monroe's suicide 'very probable,"' Noguchi wrote.
"But I also believe that until the complete FBI files are made public and the notes and interviews of the suicide panel released, controversy will continue to swirl around her death."
Monroe's file begins in 1955 and mostly focuses on her travels and associations, searching for signs of leftist views and possible ties to communism. One entry, which previously had been almost completely redacted, concerned intelligence that Monroe and other entertainers sought visas to visit Russia that year.
The file continues up until the months before her death, and also includes several news stories and references to Norman Mailer's biography of the actress, which focused on questions about whether Monroe was killed by the government.
For all the focus on Monroe's closeness to suspected communists, the bureau never found any proof she was a member of the party.
"Subject's views are very positively and concisely leftist; however, if she is being actively used by the Communist Party, it is not general knowledge among those working with the movement in Los Angeles," a July 1962 entry in Monroe's file states.
http://vault.fbi.gov/Marilyn Monroe

Peter Lemkin
12-30-2012, 01:10 PM
Long ago now I personally met and spoke with Noguchi. It was mostly about RFK, but I did ask if during the autopsy on MM he checked to see it any drugs were given via an anal route [should be traces in the intestines and surrounding tissues]. He admitted he did not and should have [would had he to do it over again]..... I do not think Noguchi nor most forensic pathologists are complicit in cover-up [although a few are known to do what the Police or Intelligence tell them to 'find'], but their mind set is often tainted by the scenario that is put into play....sadly. [in this case, all her psychological 'problems' and the plethora of pill bottles and orally ingested pills. All done like a magic show.....by distraction. The CIA has hired and retained as consultants many magicians....documented in A Terrible Mistake.

Phil Dragoo
12-30-2012, 07:04 PM
A syringe without the point to introduce the Nembutal and chloral hydrate sufficient to dispatch ten people yet magically leave no residue; the membranes of the area in question providing rapid death, indicated by cyanosis.

Follows is a Jaws boatful from wikipedia swallowed whole with no attempt at niceties--other than a quick check to be certain no MJ 12 "documents" were harmed in the amassing of this down-and-dirty account:

BEGIN WIKI

Most notable are the discrepancies in exactly what time Monroe either made or received her last phone call and at what time during the late night and early morning hours of August 4 and 5 her body was discovered.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marilyn_Monroe#cite_note-Ellis-5)

7–7:15 p.m.: Joe DiMaggio Jr., son of baseball player Joe DiMaggio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_DiMaggio) (and thus Monroe's former stepson) phones her about his broken engagement to a girl in San Diego.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Marilyn_Monroe#cite_note-6) DiMaggio Jr. said when interviewed that Monroe sounded cheerful and upbeat. On duty with the Marines in California, DiMaggio was able to place the time of the call because he was watching the seventh inning of a Baltimore Orioles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Orioles)-Los Angeles Angels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Angels_of_Anaheim) game being played in Baltimore. According to the game's records the seventh inning took place between 10 and 10:15 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time; thus, Monroe received the call around 7 p.m. California time.
7:30–7:45 p.m.: Peter Lawford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Lawford) telephones Monroe to invite her to dinner at his house, an invitation she had declined earlier that day. According to Lawford, Monroe's speech was slurred and was becoming increasingly indecipherable. After telling him goodbye the conversation abruptly ends. Lawford tries to call her back again but receives a busy signal. Telephone records show that this is the last phone call Monroe's main line received that night.
8 p.m.: Lawford telephones Eunice Murray, spending the night in Monroe's guest house, on a different line asking if the maid would check in on her. After a few seconds Murray returns to the phone telling Lawford that she is fine. Unconvinced, Lawford will try all night long to get in touch with Monroe. Lawford telephones his friend and lawyer Milton A. "Mickey" Rudin, but is advised to keep away from Monroe's house to avoid any public embarrassment that could result from Monroe possibly being under the influence.
10 p.m.: Housekeeper Eunice Murray walks past Monroe's bedroom door and later testifies that she saw a light on under the door but decided not to disturb Monroe.
10:30 p.m.: According to actress Natalie Trundy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Trundy) (later Mrs. Arthur P. Jacobs), Monroe's agent Arthur P. Jacobs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_P._Jacobs) hurriedly leaves a concert at the Hollywood Bowl that he is attending with Trundy and director Mervyn LeRoy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_LeRoy) and his wife, after being informed by Monroe's lawyer Mickey Rudin that she has overdosed. Trundy's timeline fits with undertaker Guy Hockett's (see below) estimation that Monroe died sometime between 9:30 p.m. and 11:30 p.m.
12 a.m.: Murray notices the light under the door again and knocks but gets no reply. She tells police she immediately telephoned Dr. Ralph Greenson, Monroe's psychiatrist.
Dr. Greenson arrives and tries to break open the door but fails. He looks through the French windows outside and sees Monroe lying on the bed holding the telephone and apparently dead, so breaks the glass to open the locked door and checks her. He calls Dr. Hyman Engelberg. There is some speculation that an ambulance might have been summoned to Monroe's house at this point and later dismissed.
1 a.m.: Peter Lawford is informed by Mickey Rudin that Monroe is dead.
4:30 a.m.: Police are called and arrive shortly after. The two doctors and Murray are questioned and indicate a time of death of around 12:30 a.m. Police note the room is extremely tidy and the bed appears to have fresh linen on it. They claim Murray was washing sheets when they arrived. Police note that the bedside table has several pill bottles but the room contains no means to wash pills down as there is no glass and the water is turned off. Monroe is known to gag on pills even when drinking to wash them down. Later a glass is found lying on the floor by the bed but police claim it was not there when the room was searched.
5:40 a.m.: Undertaker Guy Hockett arrives and notes that the state of rigor mortis indicates a time of death between 9:30 and 11:30 p.m. The time is later altered to match the witness statements.
6 a.m.: Murray changes her story and now says she went back to bed at midnight and only called Dr. Greenson when she awoke at 3 a.m. and noticed the light still on. Both doctors also change their stories and now claim Monroe died around 3:50 a.m. Police note Murray appears quite evasive and extremely vague and she would eventually change her story several times. Despite being a key witness, Murray travels to Europe and is not questioned again.

The pathologist, Dr. Thomas Noguchi, could find no trace of capsules, powder or the typical discoloration caused by Nembutal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nembutal) in Monroe's stomach or intestines, indicating that the drugs that killed her had not been swallowed. If Monroe had taken them over a period of time (which might account for the lack of residue), she would have died before ingesting the amount found in her bloodstream. Monroe was found lying face down. The body was covered in bruises[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)], all minor except for one on her hip. There was also evidence of cyanosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanosis), an indication that death had been very quick. Noguchi asked the toxicologist for examinations of the blood, liver, kidneys, stomach, urine and intestines, which would have revealed exactly how the drugs got into Monroe's system. However, the toxicologist, after examining the blood, did not believe he needed to check other organs, so many of the organs were destroyed without being examined. Noguchi later asked for the samples, but the medical photographs, the slides of those organs that were examined and the examination form showing bruises on the body had disappeared, making it impossible to investigate the cause of death.
The toxicology report shows high levels of Nembutal (38–66 capsules) and chloral hydrate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloral_hydrate) (14–23 tablets) in Monroe's blood. The level found was enough to kill more than 10 people. An examination of the body ruled out intravenous injection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intravenous_injection) as the source of the drugs. Coroner Dr. Theodore Curphey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Curphey) oversaw the full autopsy. Apart from the cause of death as listed on the death certificate, the results were never made public and no record of the findings was kept.



END WIKI

Phil's footnote: She was inconvenient to the Brothers Kennedy we are told by their posthumous libelers. Can we imagine either ordering her assassination? Not by worlds.

Hoover and Tolson probably high-fived and took the champagne bottle to bed upon news of the event.

Gangsters? In 1962?

Joe DiMaggio said she was upbeat. The housekeeper washing the sheets. A stage set involving no water to chase the pills she could barely swallow and weren't in her stomach.

The problem with taking fifty Nembies and twenty chloral hydrate without water is you tend not to be coherent on the phone and pass out before you get the job done.

Did she have a Medi-Alert locket with a I've Packed My Mouth With Gelatin Caps and Can't Speak to Your Courteous Operators setting?

Murder.

And Noguchi denied the tox material.

Even Holmes found it useless to speculate absent data.

Let alone pronounce.