PDA

View Full Version : The Sound of Silence



Kate Story
03-23-2009, 02:45 AM
The year was 1961, and John Kennedy was soon to become the 35th President. Shortly before Kennedy’s inauguration, President Dwight D. Eisenhower shocked the nation and the world with his televised farewell speech. The speech’s content was shocking because General Eisenhower was a very popular war hero, and American military might was second to none.
Eisenhower, a highly decorated five-star general, was the Supreme Commander of all allied forces during World War II. It was Eisenhower’s leadership during the Normandy invasion that ultimately freed Europe from the Nazi scourge.
Incredibly, in his farewell address, this great American hero did not warn the nation of the budding communist threat or the horrors of nuclear proliferation No, not at all! Instead, this career military genius poignantly and soberly declared to this great nation:
“… We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.”
“This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development Yet we must not fail to recognize its grave implications Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.”
“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or our democratic processes.”
Here we have a career military officer, and sitting US President warning the nation in his final farewell speech, that something called “unwarranted influence by the military-industrial complex” poses an extremely dangerous threat to our Free Republic society. According to Eisenhower, this threat “exists and will persist”.
To President Eisenhower, in January of 1961, this evil was a much greater threat to America than Castro’s Cuba or Kruschev’s Soviet Union What exactly could have happened in the “military-industrialist” establishment that would have caused.
Eisenhower to issue such a strongly worded warning? Improved machine gun production? Nope. Battleship production? Nope. Nuclear submarines? Nope. Proliferation of nuclear warheads? A concern of course, but a concern that most Americans were fully aware of.
No, obviously what caused Eisenhower such deep concern had to be something much more pervasively shadowy, dark and secret Some new, covert, technology had clearly emerged that had the very real potential to provide certain individuals with the “acquisition of unwarranted influence” that in turn would “endanger our liberties or our democratic processes” (i.e, our free and fair election process). In other words, it had the clear potential to circumvent the voice of the people and completely empower un-elected power mongers.
Eisenhower, I would submit, was warning America about something called the “Sound of Silence”.
Eisenhower was an honest and patriotic American Like Marine Corp General Smedley Butler, who decades earlier declared to Congress that “War is a Racket,” Ike knew that such absolute power and total covert control over the minds and hearts of individual citizens would corrupt society absolutely He also knew and understood, as did the German philosopher Goethe: “No man is more hopelessly enslaved, than he who falsely believes that he is free” Therefore, he issued his strong, concluding warning to America. Today, this author must do no less.
The Sound of Silence is a military-intelligence code word for certain psychotronic weapons of mass mind-control tested in the mid-1950s, perfected during the 70s, and used extensively by the “modern” US military in the early 90s, despite the opposition and warnings issued by men such as Dwight David Eisenhower.
This mind-altering covert weapon is based on something called subliminal carrier technology, or the Silent Sound Spread Spectrum (SSSS) (also nicknamed S-Quad or “Squad” in military jargon). It was developed for military use by Dr Oliver Lowery of Norcross, Georgia, and is described in US Patent 5,159,703 — “Silent Subliminal Presentation System” for commercial use in 1992 The patent abstract reads:
“A silent communications system in which nonaural carriers, in the very low (ELF) or very high audio-frequency (VHF) range or in the adjacent ultrasonic frequency spectrum, are amplitude- or frequency-modulated with the desired intelligence and propagated acoustically or vibrationally, for inducement into the brain, typically through the use of loudspeakers, earphones, or piezoelectric transducers. The modulated carriers may be transmitted directly in real time or may be conveniently recorded and stored on mechanical, magnetic, or optical media for delayed or repeated transmission to the listener”
In layman’s terms, this device, this “Sound of Silence”simply allows for the unwarranted implantation of specific thoughts, emotions, and even prescribed physical actions into unsuspecting human beings In short, it has the very real ability to turn human beings into mere puppets in the hands of certain “controllers,” or puppet-masters.
Eisenhower knew full well what such a “weapon” could do in the hands of greedy, conspiring men and women scheming to control the planet It could easily result in the takeover of American society without a single bullet being fired This is what he was warning America about, this is the “combination” he feared above all others.
Have the leaders of America ignored Ike’s warning? Have conspiring and evil men and women utilized this diabolical technology on unsuspecting Americans and others outside of our borders? If so, will they continue to utilize the technology through the medium of television and radio? This exposé will attempt to answer these questions, and give the reader a clear picture of exactly who made the decisions to use the “Sound of Silence” in both war and peace.
On March 23, 1991, a news brief was released in the form of an ITV News Bureau Ltd (London) wire service bulletin entitled “High-Tech Psychological Warfare Arrives in the Middle East” This was during the administration of George Bush Sr., during “Operation Desert Storm,” and describes in remarkable detail a US Psychological Operations (psy-ops) covert operation successfully deployed against Iraqi troops in Kuwait.
Saddam Hussein’s vaunted “Republican Guard” crack troops were promising Bush “the mother of all battles” with many thousands of dead coalition troops. On paper, it looked convincing. Hussein’s Republican Guard troops were battle-hardened veterans of the 10 year war with Iran, while coalition troops were unblooded. The Iraqis had modern weaponry and were well trained in how to use it.
Something very strange happened, however The “mother of all battles” ended before it began, as literally hundreds of thousands of Iraqi soldiers surrendered en masse without even firing a shot!
Here is what the British press reported on the incident (while the American press was censored):
“… an unbelievable and highly classified psy-ops program utilizing ‘Silent Sound’ techniques was successfully deployed. The opportunity to use this method occurred when Saddam Hussein’s military command-and-control system was destroyed. The Iraqi troops were then forced to use commercial FM radio stations to carry encoded commands, which were broadcast on the 100 MHz frequency. The US psy-ops team set up its own portable FM transmitter, utilizing the same frequency, in the deserted city of Al Khafji. This US transmitter overpowered the local Iraqi station. Along with patriotic and religious music, psy-ops transmitted ‘vague, confusing and contradictory military orders and information.
“Subliminally, a much more powerful technology was at work, however. A sophisticated electronic system designed to ’speak’ directly to the mind of the listener; to alter and entrain his brainwaves, to manipulate his brain’s electroencephalographic (EEG) patterns and thus artificially implant negative emotional states —- feelings of intense fear, anxiety, despair and hopelessness were created in the Iraqi troops This incredibly effective subliminal system doesn’t just tell a person to feel an emotion, it makes them feel it; it implants that emotion in their minds”.
While utilizing such a “non-lethal” covert psy-ops weapon resulted in many lives being saved, both American, Coalition, as well as Iraqi, the question begs to be asked: how can Americans be assured that such a weapon is not being used on them by “Big Brother” on a daily basis?
Moreover, why was the real story behind the mass Iraqi surrenders censored so completely from the American people? Typically, secrecy of this nature is only employed when the subject is morally offensive, or when the powers that be wish to continue to deploy the subject without public scrutiny or oversight, or both. Clearly, if such a device employed covertly on Americans could result in “unwarranted influence” over a society, as Eisenhower warned, I submit the majority of Americans would be completely outraged and incensed, and rightfully so. Therefore, of course the technology would need to remain hidden away.
Officially, the Sound of Silence (S-quad) technology does not exist, just as the US Government officially denies the existence of UFOs and Area 51 (Groom Lake) in the Nevada desert. However, the physical realities cannot be ignored by the rational and logical mind.
For instance, during the first Gulf war, the man who most likely ordered the deployment of the Sound of Silence was Major General Albert (Bert) Stubblebine, who was the Commanding General of the US Army’s Intelligence School and Center, as well as the Army’s Electronic Research and Development Command (ERADCOM) as well as the Army’s Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM) In short, Albert Stubblebine was the Army’s liaison with the CIA and Naval Intelligence operatives (ONI), and as head of ERADCOM, he would of necessity have had complete working knowledge of the Sound of Silence weaponry, if indeed it truly exists.
He was the US Army’s top spy-boss, and of course, was privy to all its secrets Now retired from active duty following a 32 year career, General Stubblebine has combined with his wife, Rima Laibow to form something called the Natural Solutions Foundation, supposedly dedicated to fighting all health freedom threats to individuals including Codex Alimentarius, vaccinations, and of course the FDA Gestapo.
On their website, www.healthfreedomusa.org one can read this about Albert N Stubblebine: “Many of the innovations he developed helped the US to conduct the First Gulf War effectively and swiftly with a very low casualty rate”.
But of course, such “innovations” are never fully disclosed to Americans and are officially non-existent With all due respect to General Stubblebine and shadowy power-brokers such as Frank Carlucci and Donald Rumsfeld, this author concurs whole-heartedly with General Eisenhower, and I declare that such posturing and secrecy with weapons of mind-control constitutes indeed an “acquisition of unwarranted power and influence” and has absolutely no place in a free and open society — no matter how many soldier’s lives it may save on the battlefield. The potential for massive misuse and abuse of such immense controlling power is simply too great.
Furthermore, with all due respect Mr Stubblebine, is he and Rima Laibow using the cover of Natural Health activistism to hide their true agenda? Could this hidden agenda be the covert promotion and testing of Sound of Silence equipment and technology commercially throughout the world?
… Immediately after “retiring” from the army, General Stubblebine took a position as the “VP for Intelligence Systems” with Braddock, Dunn, and McDonald (BDM), a major defense contractor owned by the shadowy Carlyle Group and ex-Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci of Iran-Contra infamy…
Since the Sound of Silence machine technology was patented for “privatization” commercial applications by Dr. Lowery on October 27, 1992 , it clearly opened the door to private defense contractors such as BDM to develop their own “intelligence systems”. It would then make sense to employ General Stubblebine as a consultant Of course, what would then stop BDM from quietly marketing and selling the Sound of Silence to large corporations tied to Wall Street?
For example, imagine utilizing the Sound of Silence in a large Wal-Mart store, mixing the ELF waves with background music to subliminally brainwash dishonest shoppers not to engage in shoplifting? Such a device would save Sam Walton many millions of dollars in lost revenue every year.
Suppose also that a young, black man from Illinois was given access to, and was able to utilize the S-quad Sound of Silence technology in his public speeches, radio and 30-minute television”infomercials” — all programmed and designed by “handlers” to illicit strong emotional responses from audience members who then are merely “hearing without listening”.
Moreover, what if televisions across the US and Canada all went 100% digital [to be mandatory in Feb 2009] in their signals (in order to successfully link to GWEN towers) which would allow the unrestricted use of the Sound of Silence frequencies in a complete and massive control of the nation’s mind and consciousness?
I am telling you that is exactly what is happening President Eisenhower was absolutely correct, and his worst fears were indeed well founded! The military-industrialist complex has quietly completed the takeover of the nation’s consciousness, and thus its very soul.
… Keep in mind that taking complete fascist control of America is just one step of the Zionist elites ultimate agenda, of which Stubblebine and Laibow have very likely pledged their true loyalty. The elitist Zionists overall objective is indeed absolute world control, something they refer to as a “New World Order”with them as dictators and overlords.
Again, the absolute secrecy surrounding the development and deployment of the electromagnetic mind-altering technology of the Sound of Silence in a very real way reflects the tremendous power that is inherent in it This is why Eisenhower knew that he had to warn the nation about it back in 1961 To put it bluntly, whoever controls this technology literally has the power to control the minds of men — all men and women everywhere.
Of course, whoever controls the minds of all humans, controls the wealth and destiny of planet Earth. Furthermore, Stubblebine, as commander of Army Intelligence would likely follow the prescribed manual of all covert ops, such as is found in a declassified US manual for the planned subversion and coup of the government of Nicaragua. The manual instructs the CIA “guerilla forces” to engage in different “false front” organizations designed to win the respect, trust, and influence of the enemy. Once complete trust and confidence is achieved by means of the activities of the “false front,” then the destruction of the enemy by means of misdirection and disinformation tactics can more easily be executed.
I would submit there is no better “false front” to infiltrate in America than Natural Health proponents, for they are typically healthier, better informed, and more dedicated to preserving individual freedoms and fighting tyranny than other Americans Thus, there could be no better “false front” to establish, and there is clearly no more potentially vicious wolf hiding in sheep’s clothing than the man who knows more about the Sound of Silence secret deployment than any other human…
There is ample evidence that certain elitists in America and Israel plan to definitely extend the capacity of this technology to encompass all people on every continent. A key to this is the HAARP project where ELF and VHF frequencies can indeed be beamed off of the Earth’s ionosphere to various GWEN towers world-wide.
Of course, the US Government officially denies all of this, telling the talking heads of the controlled news media that the GWEN towers are merely private cell-phone towers with no ulterior agenda, and therefore anybody who thinks otherwise is a lunatic-fringe conspiracy nut.
The evidence to the contrary, however is clear and unequivocal Dr Michael Persinger is a professor of psychology and neuroscience at Laurentian University, Ontario, Canada Concerning this subject, Dr Persinger writes:
“Temporal lobe stimulation can evoke the feeling of a presence, disorientation, and perceptual irregularities. It can activate images stored in the subject’s memory, including nightmares and monsters that are normally suppressed. Contemporary neuroscience suggests the existence of fundamental algorithms by which all sensory transduction is translated into an intrinsic, brain-specific code Direct stimulation of these codes within the human temporal or limbic cortices by applied electromagnetic patterns may require energy levels which are within the range of both geomagnetic activity and contemporary communication networks A process which is coupled to the narrow band of brain temperature could allow all normal human brains to be affected by a sub-harmonic whose frequency range at about 10 Hz would only vary by 0.1 Hz”.
Dr Persinger concludes the article by writing:
“Within the last two decades a potential has emerged which was improbable, but which is now feasible. This potential is the technical capability to influence directly the major portion of the approximately 6.5 billion brains of the human species, without mediation through classical sensory modalities, by generating neural information within a physical medium within which all members of the species are immersed.
“The historical emergence of such possibilities, which have ranged from gunpowder to atomic fission, have resulted in major changes in the social evolution that occurred inordinately quickly after the implementation Reduction of the risk of the inappropriate application of these technologies requires the continued and open discussion of their realistic feasibility and implications within the scientific and public domain”.
How can one have an “open discussion” on the subject when government circles continually deny the existence of such technology?
..
Lyrics to the pop song ‘The Sound of Silence’
By Paul Kane (aka Paul Simon), 1963
Hello, darkness, my old friend
I’ve come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains within the Sound of Silence
In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
Beneath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night and touched the Sound of Silence
And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share…
And no one dare disturb the Sound of Silence
“Fools,” said I, “you do not know
Silence like a cancer grows”
“Hear my words that I might teach you,
Take my arms that I might reach you”
But my words like silent raindrops fell,
And echoed in the wells of silence
And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the signs said: “The words of the prophets
Are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls,
And whisper’d in the Sound of Silence”
Paul Simon/Paul Kane’s musical work in the early 1960’s was primarily as a contracted songwriter in the famed “Brill Building machine.” He would write songs for other artists to record. He did try his hand at performing, however. He wrote many ballads and rockabilly tunes which were recorded, both by Paul and his mildly-successful Tico and the Triumphs Paul also had a famous collaborator, Carole Kane (who changed her name to Carol King).
Paul Simon, whose family was part of the military-industrialist complex, was very likely a product of the early 1960s military experimentation in Silent Sound mind control, which is clearly what the lyrics of “The Sound of Silence” convey to those “in the know”.

The full article can be read here:
http://www.escapetheillusion.com/blog/2009/01/digital-tv-mind-control-by-the-sound-of-silence/
:sheep:

David Healy
03-23-2009, 03:52 AM
The elitist Zionists overall objective is indeed absolute world control, something they refer to as a “New World Order”with them as dictators and overlords.



I knew it was in there somewhere and I wasn't disappointed...

anyway, a reasoned response to the piece from the same blog follows....

*******

Nanook
January 13, 2009 am31 10:00 pm

I will be surprised if my response gets published here, because I take issue with the author. I have no way to prove, in this reply, that I’m not some kind of gov’t sympathizer or informant or otherwise a hack for Uncle Sam. The average conspiracy person (and I certainly believe that there are conspiracies out there) looks for material like that which this author publishes, which uses a combination of techno-speak and “probable” logic to foment a myth.

Note that one “conclusion” leads to another with words such as “very likely” or “probably means” or similar. But the conclusory jumps are not always correct nor do they connect the dots they purport to connect. Anyone who has done any research or even just informed reading on the MIC (Military-Industrial Complex) knows what Eisenhower really meant. There was NO subliminal technology available and working at the time, regardless of any patents granted. There were patents granted for potential weather control back in the 1950s (technology which later came to be associated with HAARP), but do any readers think the gov’t has figured out weather control yet? The conspiracy people will respond with “well, look at this crazy weather we have been getting.” Yes, quite. The gov’t doesn’t live on another planet, not yet anyway. The people within the gov’t still eat food, breathe air, take a dump every day, etc. They have to live on this planet with us. And it’s not logical to presume they would use HAARP to destroy the only place they can live on. So, let’s not get caught up in the issue of patents and whether that proves that a mind-control wave is working.

Moving on…. a lot of research has been done on the brain. To date, the most advanced medical research can only map general areas where certain functions happen. But NO equipment can read thoughts. And since this is still not possible, it is also NOT possible to engender thoughts in someone for “mind control”. Iraq’s Revolutionary Guard freaked out and gave up for one reason: In his controlled media environment, Saddam had been lying to his people for years. It was his bravado that said he will bring the mother of all wars to the U.S. Saddam convinced his soldiers that they were the ultimate warriors and that through Allah (and Saddam’s great wisdom) they were unbeatable, even by the infidels of the U.S. The Iraqi soldiers may have fought desert wars with Iran but they were unprepared for some of the American munitions that were deployed against them. One of these, that had a true psychological effect, was the aerial gas bomb. Ever heard of that, readers? A bomb is dropped over a large troop formation, filled with gasoline or highly flammable liquid. It is exploded not on the ground, but several hundred feet up in the air. The heat and shock wave precipitates downward, with the shock wave doing the most damage, turning soldiers’ organs to jelly. A horrific but simple weapon. The first time that was used (and it was used a number of times) it terrified the Iraqis. They had no way to fight that, nor could they know when one was coming. What would you do in such a circumstance, facing overwhelming and lethal (and agonizing) force attack? Now add to that the fact that Saddam was squandering money and wasn’t outfitting his troops very well. They were low on equipment and rations, some were already starving, short on water and ammo. Many had zip. They didn’t dare complain, because that would land them in one of Saddam’s torture prisons. So they suffered through their involuntary military service. Until they could take no more. Beaten down physically and psychologically by years of abuse under Saddam, and then further by overwhelming physical force from the U.S., they surrendered. There was NO mind control wave transmission. That is a lie.

Why? What’s the reason for the lie? Because it sounds good. Blaming the MIC, which I don’t like either, becomes the rallying cry. They are usually the bad guys (look at what happened at Abu Ghraib), so why not believe this as well? The clue comes in the following snip taken from the presentation:

>>>>>Keep in mind that taking complete fascist control of America is just one step of the Zionist elites ultimate agenda, of which Stubblebine and Laibow have very likely pledged their true loyalty. The elitist Zionists overall objective is indeed absolute world control, something they refer to as a “New World Order”with them as dictators and overlords.<<<<<

Ah, finally. It took several paragraphs of drum beating but the author finally got down to business. The Zionists. Oh yes, the Zionists. That is to say, the Jews. The fear of the Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. This is an OLD and worn out drum. This emanates from the extreme political right wing of the U.S., and surprisingly, even though that segment of our society has the greatest degree of insensitivity and intolerance concerning Muslims (foolishly believing them all to be terrorists), their philosophy is right in line with the extremist faction among Muslims.

I could go on.

The point here, is that, we all must guard against not only true conspiracies, but guard against those who would subvert our very goodness and make us fearful and hateful by pulling our collective string, mixing overt falsehood with just enough truth, or seeming truth, to make all of the falsehood seem real. It is the responsibility of EACH AND EVERY CITIZEN of our beloved country to get the facts. Yes, it takes work to dig them out. You have to pick up BOOKs, people, you have to READ. The Internet is not the fountain of truth. Neither are all books, for that matter. You must sift through what you hear and figure out what is real and what is carefully crafted BS. Look for those telltale phrases in which one “conclusion” leads to another by such words as, “this probably means”, or “very likely such and such will happen next”. (And then in the next writing or paragraph, the “very likely” event is treated as thought it already happened, in order to build on it with the next falsehood).

Get the picture? THINK. ASK QUESTIONS. FIND WHAT IS TRUE AND WHAT ISN’T. THE REAL MIND CONTROL IS IN GETTING YOU TO AVOID THINKING!!!! That is how a complacent and compliant citizenry is developed and manipulated. Through lies and fear-mongering, which creates confusion and distrust, not only of gov’t, but of each other.

Kate Story
03-23-2009, 05:09 AM
"THINK. ASK QUESTIONS. FIND WHAT IS TRUE AND WHAT ISN’T. THE REAL MIND CONTROL IS IN GETTING YOU TO AVOID THINKING!!!! "

If most bible believers would only take their own advice!!!!

Did you not read this part? (The Sound of Silence is a military-intelligence code word for certain psychotronic weapons of mass mind-control tested in the mid-1950s, perfected during the 70s, and used extensively by the “modern” US military in the early 90s, despite the opposition and warnings issued by men such as Dwight David Eisenhower.)

There were mind control programs in Eisenhower's time. They were not advanced as what we now have but enough to scare the hell out of any right thinking person. He had sense enough to realize technology would increase and he also knew the government would most likely continue to use these black ops against the innocent citizens of this country.

You have no idea what technology was available as far back as the 1940's and you sure have no idea what is being hidden from the public today. I would suggest you find and read Brotherhood of the Bell: Black Arts & Black Sciences by William Dean Ross.

I think it was Thomas Paine who wrote "serving a mean god makes a mean man".

David Guyatt
03-23-2009, 09:10 AM
There is no question that this technology exists, and has existed for a very long time.

I wrote the following in 1996 at the request of the International Committee of the Red Cross. I'm quite happy for the entire thing to be posted on this forum but for brevity am linking it HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/some_aspects_pr.htm)

It is a now long out of date and others have carried on the research - one being John J McMurtry who's Remote Behavioral Influence Technology Evidence essay can be read HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/remote_behavioral_techology_pr.htm)

Magda Hassan
03-23-2009, 11:48 AM
Does any one here recall a BBC tv series from the 1980's called 'A Very Peculiar Practice'?

Kate Story
03-23-2009, 05:27 PM
There is no question that this technology exists, and has existed for a very long time.

I wrote the following in 1996 at the request of the International Committee of the Red Cross. I'm quite happy for the entire thing to be posted on this forum but for brevity am linking it HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/some_aspects_pr.htm)

It is a now long out of date and others have carried on the research - one being John J McMurtry who's Remote Behavioral Influence Technology Evidence essay can be read HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/remote_behavioral_techology_pr.htm)

David, that is a wonderful article! I had read many of those items from research done by others but you have it all in one neat bundle. Thank you for posting the link. You can type in 'Victims of Childhood Mind Control in the 1940's' under any search engine and get some shocking first hand accounts of just how advanced and far back these atrocities are.

None of this is new and is just a continuation of all the ancient mystery schools. The NT speaks of the mysteries and the jesus figure teaches in parables to the common people and tells his chosen followers only they can receive the true knowledge and it will be hidden from all others. If the day ever comes when the complete contents of the Dead Sea Scrolls have been truthfully translated and released the world can clean up the mess that religions have caused. If these evil secret organizations have tainted governments how could any right thinking person be so naive to believe religions were left untainted? Next to governmental control religion is next in line as a tool of human brainwashing and control. The three major Abrahamic religions keep fighting each other and don't have one clue what is really going on or what they are truly worshipping. In 2007 at his Easter sermon Pope Benedict stirred up quite an uproar by declaring that he believed Jesus celebrated passover in the Essene tradition and also that John the Baptist grew up in the Qumrum Essene community. The Essenes were the radical zealot jewish sect that had split from the church at Jerusalem and declared they were the real 'chosen' of god. They were pro-torah law keepers and anti-gentile. That would be why Jesus and his followers referred to non-jews as dogs. I would think from the many controversial statements of the Pope in the last two years, he knows it is a matter of time before the truth will come forth. It is my opinion that to see the beginnings of these secret societies, mind control and 'mystery schools' one needs to look no further than the so-called holy books, especially the KJV of the christian bible. I believe those books are blueprints for these societies and have been followed down through the ages. Apparently, there were as many different secret societies in those days as now. The so-called Apostle Paul had his own thing going and his form of christianity is what is presented today. Many scholars and scroll translators believe he is the "spouter of lies" that the Essenes referred to in some of their scrolls.

Kate Story
03-23-2009, 05:28 PM
Does any one here recall a BBC tv series from the 1980's called 'A Very Peculiar Practice'?

Magda, I have never heard of this series but am interested if you find where I can obtain it.

David Guyatt
03-23-2009, 07:05 PM
There is no question that this technology exists, and has existed for a very long time.

I wrote the following in 1996 at the request of the International Committee of the Red Cross. I'm quite happy for the entire thing to be posted on this forum but for brevity am linking it HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/some_aspects_pr.htm)

It is a now long out of date and others have carried on the research - one being John J McMurtry who's Remote Behavioral Influence Technology Evidence essay can be read HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/remote_behavioral_techology_pr.htm)

David, that is a wonderful article! I had read many of those items from research done by others but you have it all in one neat bundle. Thank you for posting the link. You can type in 'Victims of Childhood Mind Control in the 1940's' under any search engine and get some shocking first hand accounts of just how advanced and far back these atrocities are.

None of this is new and is just a continuation of all the ancient mystery schools. The NT speaks of the mysteries and the jesus figure teaches in parables to the common people and tells his chosen followers only they can receive the true knowledge and it will be hidden from all others. If the day ever comes when the complete contents of the Dead Sea Scrolls have been truthfully translated and released the world can clean up the mess that religions have caused. If these evil secret organizations have tainted governments how could any right thinking person be so naive to believe religions were left untainted? Next to governmental control religion is next in line as a tool of human brainwashing and control. The three major Abrahamic religions keep fighting each other and don't have one clue what is really going on or what they are truly worshipping. In 2007 at his Easter sermon Pope Benedict stirred up quite an uproar by declaring that he believed Jesus celebrated passover in the Essene tradition and also that John the Baptist grew up in the Qumrum Essene community. The Essenes were the radical zealot jewish sect that had split from the church at Jerusalem and declared they were the real 'chosen' of god. They were pro-torah law keepers and anti-gentile. That would be why Jesus and his followers referred to non-jews as dogs. I would think from the many controversial statements of the Pope in the last two years, he knows it is a matter of time before the truth will come forth. It is my opinion that to see the beginnings of these secret societies, mind control and 'mystery schools' one needs to look no further than the so-called holy books, especially the KJV of the christian bible. I believe those books are blueprints for these societies and have been followed down through the ages. Apparently, there were as many different secret societies in those days as now. The so-called Apostle Paul had his own thing going and his form of christianity is what is presented today. Many scholars and scroll translators believe he is the "spouter of lies" that the Essenes referred to in some of their scrolls.

I agree, Kate, at least to a certain extent. It is true, at least I think it is true, that Christianity actually is misnamed and should be called Paul-anity. And I agree that religion has very largely become a curse in that it seeks to bind and imprison it's followers thoughts and beliefs when it should be setting them free. However, I disagree on your blanket cynicism of religion per se, although I think I well understand where you are coming from in saying this and why.

But not everything is black in perpetuity.

On Mystery Schools I would say that they have their mysteries for the very understandable reason that beholding mysteries is something that the majority of people are not able to, nor wish to, accomplish. For example, the great secret of the Greek mystery schools was openly chiseled into the stone lintel above the entrance door of their temples for all to see (and thus ignore in their multitudes): "Gnothi Seaton". Check it out. The Upanishads also have their own version of Gnothi Seaton. Others too. Or as Sir Francis Bacon once said: "why feed a donkey lettuce when nettles will do?" Meaning, in other words that not everyone wants or even likes lettuce, and if given it finds it hard to digest.

Magda Hassan
03-23-2009, 09:22 PM
Does any one here recall a BBC tv series from the 1980's called 'A Very Peculiar Practice'?

Magda, I have never heard of this series but am interested if you find where I can obtain it.\

I saw it on tv when it was on the first time. Unfortunately it is not available in Australia in DVD format for some reason so I am relying on 20 year old memory. The general outline is of a provincial British university and there is one department there conducting very strange secret experiments using amongst other things using low frequency sound waves. It was not a documentary but a black comedy.

David Healy
03-23-2009, 09:44 PM
There is no question that this technology exists, and has existed for a very long time.

I wrote the following in 1996 at the request of the International Committee of the Red Cross. I'm quite happy for the entire thing to be posted on this forum but for brevity am linking it HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/some_aspects_pr.htm)

It is a now long out of date and others have carried on the research - one being John J McMurtry who's Remote Behavioral Influence Technology Evidence essay can be read HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/remote_behavioral_techology_pr.htm)

David, that is a wonderful article! I had read many of those items from research done by others but you have it all in one neat bundle. Thank you for posting the link. You can type in 'Victims of Childhood Mind Control in the 1940's' under any search engine and get some shocking first hand accounts of just how advanced and far back these atrocities are.

None of this is new and is just a continuation of all the ancient mystery schools. The NT speaks of the mysteries and the jesus figure teaches in parables to the common people and tells his chosen followers only they can receive the true knowledge and it will be hidden from all others. If the day ever comes when the complete contents of the Dead Sea Scrolls have been truthfully translated and released the world can clean up the mess that religions have caused. If these evil secret organizations have tainted governments how could any right thinking person be so naive to believe religions were left untainted? Next to governmental control religion is next in line as a tool of human brainwashing and control. The three major Abrahamic religions keep fighting each other and don't have one clue what is really going on or what they are truly worshipping. In 2007 at his Easter sermon Pope Benedict stirred up quite an uproar by declaring that he believed Jesus celebrated passover in the Essene tradition and also that John the Baptist grew up in the Qumrum Essene community. The Essenes were the radical zealot jewish sect that had split from the church at Jerusalem and declared they were the real 'chosen' of god. They were pro-torah law keepers and anti-gentile. That would be why Jesus and his followers referred to non-jews as dogs. I would think from the many controversial statements of the Pope in the last two years, he knows it is a matter of time before the truth will come forth. It is my opinion that to see the beginnings of these secret societies, mind control and 'mystery schools' one needs to look no further than the so-called holy books, especially the KJV of the christian bible. I believe those books are blueprints for these societies and have been followed down through the ages. Apparently, there were as many different secret societies in those days as now. The so-called Apostle Paul had his own thing going and his form of christianity is what is presented today. Many scholars and scroll translators believe he is the "spouter of lies" that the Essenes referred to in some of their scrolls.

here we go, if its not Jew bashing well, what else, its Christian bashing, all wrapped up in intelligentsia. My but the world is full of F-E-A-R

Be nice if you'd post your scholars and scroll translators (whoever in the hell, they are) their cites for your above. Ya wanna sell something other than opinion, provide the goods.

Tnx,
David Healy

Kate Story
03-23-2009, 10:18 PM
[quote=David Guyatt;5242
I agree, Kate, at least to a certain extent. It is true, at least I think it is true, that Christianity actually is misnamed and should be called Paul-anity. And I agree that religion has very largely become a curse in that it seeks to bind and imprison it's followers thoughts and beliefs when it should be setting them free. However, I disagree on your blanket cynicism of religion per se, although I think I well understand where you are coming from in saying this and why.

But not everything is black in perpetuity.

On Mystery Schools I would say that they have their mysteries for the very understandable reason that beholding mysteries is something that the majority of people are not able to, nor wish to, accomplish. For example, the great secret of the Greek mystery schools was openly chiseled into the stone lintel above the entrance door of their temples for all to see (and thus ignore in their multitudes): "Gnothi Seaton". Check it out. The Upanishads also have their own version of Gnothi Seaton. Others too. Or as Sir Francis Bacon once said: "why feed a donkey lettuce when nettles will do?" Meaning, in other words that not everyone wants or even likes lettuce, and if given it finds it hard to digest.[/quote]

I wasn't trying to use a blanket of cynicism and although everything is not black in perpetuity, neither is everything black OR white. I firmly believe the people with good hearts and intentions would be the same with or without religion. The good or evil in mankind comes from within and we each make the discision what we choose for ourselves. I believe in an evil force and I also believe with all my heart in a good force. I do not know what/who or why that force is or where it comes from. I do know it is not the 'deities' presented in any holy book. If I had to attribute any of them to a supernatural being, it would have to be the evil side.

All religious systems enslave the mind. Certain things are demanded, certain things must be believed, certain things must be done, and anyone who becomes the subject or servant of this superstition must give up all idea of individuality or hope of intellectual growth and progress. The dark ages proved that beyond a doubt. We must all become sheep in one flock. Group think and marching lock step due to some manmade dogma is suicide for one's independence and self worth. The bible teaches the best we can do is "filthy rags in the sight of God". What decent mortal parent would teach something so hateful to their child?

The Arab world is muslim. Israel is jewish. America is considered christian of one sect or another. We have been taught to police one another. If one fails to fall in line with the leading accepted religion of their own culture, they are looked upon as an infidel, a heathen or a dog. Each can clearly point out the faults and errors of all other religions but each is just as sure as the other their god is the only god. I have known many people who really don't care for religion at all but go along just to get along with family and society. Some do it for business purposes. Apparently a 'religious' businessman is a better man! That should not be. Where is the freedom in that when one feels forced to live a lie just to live in peace? Not only do they waste much of their precious lives but continue to pass it along to the next generation. If the day comes when the world if forced by threat of death into a one world religion, then it will become painfully clear how dangerous religion truly is. It should have remained clear after the crusades and inquisitions that both the catholics and then the protestants leveled against all resistors. It is true that the only thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history. The horrid mess and slaughter that is about to boil over in Palestine at this very moment is due to religious doctrine and pitting one god against another. The US christians have been taught, since Cyrus Scofield came along, that the bible says we must bless and pray for the Jews or we will reap the curse of god. To that I shout a hardy BULLSHIT and will hush...for now.

Kate Story
03-23-2009, 10:23 PM
Does any one here recall a BBC tv series from the 1980's called 'A Very Peculiar Practice'?

Magda, I have never heard of this series but am interested if you find where I can obtain it.\

I saw it on tv when it was on the first time. Unfortunately it is not available in Australia in DVD format for some reason so I am relying on 20 year old memory. The general outline is of a provincial British university and there is one department there conducting very strange secret experiments using amongst other things using low frequency sound waves. It was not a documentary but a black comedy.


I'll try later and see if there is a Torrent site that has it.

Kate Story
03-23-2009, 11:33 PM
F-E-A-R[/B]

Be nice if you'd post your scholars and scroll translators (whoever in the hell, they are) their cites for your above. Ya wanna sell something other than opinion, provide the goods.

Tnx,
David Healy


John Strugnell. Chief Scroll Editor for over 30 years.
Entire article..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Strugnell
Strugnell was removed from his editorial post on the Scrolls project in 1990 after critics charged that he was moving too slowly in publishing them and he gave an interview to Ha'aretz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha%27aretz) saying that Judaism was a "horrible religion" which "should not exist".[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Strugnell#cite_note-nyt-3) The removal of Strugnell from his editorial post ended the more than three-decade blockade that he and other Harvard-educated scholars, such as Notre Dame's Eugene Ulrich, had maintained to keep other scholars from accessing the scrolls.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Strugnell#cite_note-4)
The more than 30-year blockade on the publication of the scrolls effected by Strugnell and other members of Harvard's academic community was broken by the combined efforts of Hershel Shanks of the Biblical Archaelogy Review (who had personally waged a 15-year campaign to release the scrolls) and David Ben Zion Wacholder of Hebrew Union College, along with his student, Martin Abegg, who published the first facsimile of the suppressed scrolls in 1991.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Strugnell#cite_note-5)
In the interview, Strugnell insisted Judaism was "a Christian heresy, and we deal with our heretics in different ways. You are a phenomenon that we haven't managed to convert -- and we should have managed."[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Strugnell#cite_note-nyt-3) There was immediate condemnation of his comments, including an editorial in the New York Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times). He was removed from his position as editor-in-chief, and he was forced to take early retirement on medical grounds at Harvard.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Strugnell#cite_note-times-1)

Strugnell later claimed he was struggling with alcoholism and manic depression. Alcoholism seemed to go with the territory of DSS translators.

Jozef Milik. Original DSS translator and catholic priest. He later left the church, married and overcame a drinking problem.

By Robert Feather
This article is a brief examination of the nature and historical roots of the Qumran community that lived and worked on the western shore of the Dead Sea around 150 BCE to 68 CE and the connections that may be discerned between it and the preaching of John the Baptist, the ministry of Jesus, and the origins of Christianity. It looks through the eyes of scholars like Jozef Milik, one of the first to discover the nature of the Dead Sea Scrolls and to analyse them in depth, back in the 1950s, and the author’s analysis of the latest research now that translations of most of the Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered near Qumran, have been officially published.
My previous book The Mystery of the Copper Scroll of Qumran,1 dealt with aspects of the Dead Sea Scrolls and, more particularly, one of the scrolls that had been engraved on copper by the strange community of Essenes that inhabited Qumran. As a trained metallurgist, the use of copper by a devout Jewish sect, living by the Dead Sea around the first century BCE, had aroused my curiosity – especially as the Hebrew text seemed to be a list of buried treasures that apparently had never been found (see New Dawn No. 80, September-October 2003).
For my next book I had planned to take a closer look at the Qumran community’s beliefs and way of life, examining how these may have influenced the beginnings of Christianity and its emergence as a daughter religion of Judaism. However, while discussing the project with Jozef Milik, one of the scholars who originally worked on deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls back in the early 1950s, my research took a strange and totally unexpected twist. Jozef Milik had been the leader of the team of translators based at the École Biblique in East Jerusalem; he had also been, at that time, an ordained Catholic priest.
What Monsieur Milik revealed to me, in the course of many intriguing conversations he and I shared about the Essene community, inspired me to write a new book and informs a substantial part of it.
The main thrust of the current search, however, was the nature of the people who lived at Qumran between, perhaps, 150 BCE and 68 CE, when their settlement was destroyed by the Romans, the secrets they kept, their relationship to the earliest followers of Jesus, and the incredible revelations of Monsieur Milik.
It was not until my third visit, in October 1999, when I returned to present him with a copy of my book on one of the Dead Sea Scrolls, that Jozef Milik started to talk more freely about his early life and work, volunteered his date of birth as March 24, 1922, and told me why he had left the Catholic Church. Ostensibly it was to marry his rather delightful wife, Yolanta, née Zaluska, but there were other reasons, reasons connected with what he had found and interpreted in the scrolls of the Dead Sea.
Two hours into our conversation he quietly and almost casually spoke of certain events near Qumran. It was one of those nerve tingling moments; my mind reeled with the impact of what he was saying.
Those dramatic words of Jozef Milik started me on a journey of discovery to determine how the circumstances at the time of Jesus might confirm or disprove his revelation. It was a quest that was to take me from the cold dampness of a Parisian autumn day to the remote dryness of Egypt, to the holy places of Jerusalem, to an offshore haven on the Isle of Man, to catacombs in Rome, to Washington and New York, to a Gothic building in Germany, and back to the barren shores of the Dead Sea in Israel.
As my journeys and investigations progressed, it became increasingly clear that something extraordinary, as yet not revealed, may have occurred at or near to Qumran, and there were others who were party to this knowledge but were not keen for the evidence to become public.
Entire article:http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/where-did-christianity-really-come-from

Robert Feathers book The Secret Initiation of Jesus at Qumram is a must read. He collaborated with Milik on the contents of the book.

There is much more on the translators but I am pressed for time at the moment but will get it out ASAP.

Magda Hassan
03-24-2009, 12:13 AM
Barbara Theiring is a local DSS scholar who has written extensively on the interpretation of the DSS. She makes a far better case for real history than does the bible or church.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Man-Interpretation-Dead-Scrolls/dp/0552139505

Kate Story
03-24-2009, 03:22 AM
Barbara Theiring is a local DSS scholar who has written extensively on the interpretation of the DSS. She makes a far better case for real history than does the bible or church.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Man-Interpretation-Dead-Scrolls/dp/0552139505

I believe a lot of her work can still be found on scribd.com. I think she was another maverick as was John Allegro who is becoming more vindicated as more of the scrolls are being published. Sex, drugs and ancient rock n roll! People never change.

I agree with much of Theiring's opinions but anything contrary to the rubbish that has been handed down by the church is kept as quiet as possible. A trillion dollar per year industry doesn't go away overnight but now there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

David Healy
03-24-2009, 09:18 PM
Barbara Theiring is a local DSS scholar who has written extensively on the interpretation of the DSS. She makes a far better case for real history than does the bible or church.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Man-Interpretation-Dead-Scrolls/dp/0552139505

I believe a lot of her work can still be found on scribd.com. I think she was another maverick as was John Allegro who is becoming more vindicated as more of the scrolls are being published. Sex, drugs and ancient rock n roll! People never change.

I agree with much of Theiring's opinions but anything contrary to the rubbish that has been handed down by the church is kept as quiet as possible. A trillion dollar per year industry doesn't go away overnight but now there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

just so we understand who we;re talking about and the other side of the story (and what appears to be peer review)....

Barbara Thiering
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Barbara Thiering (born 1930) is an Australian nonfiction writer, historian, and Biblical exegete specializing in the origins of the early Christian Church. In books and journal articles, she challenges Christian orthodoxy, drawing on claimed new evidence that gives alternative answers to its supernatural beliefs. Her analysis has been rejected by many scholars in the field.

From her speciality, studying the Dead Sea Scrolls, their semiotics, and their hermeneutics, she has propounded a theory arguing that the miracles, including the Turning water into wine, the Virgin Birth, Healing a man at a distance, the man who had been thirty-eight years at the pool, and the Resurrection, among others, did not actually occur (as miracles), as Christians believe, nor were they legends, as some skeptics hold, but were "deliberately constructed myths"[1] concealing (yet, to certain initiates, relating) esoteric historic events. She alleges that they never actually happened (that is, that the events they chronicle were not at all miraculous), as the authors of the Gospels knew. They wrote, according to the methods of pesher, which she discovers in the scrolls, on two levels. For the “babes in Christ,” there were apparent miracles, but the knowledge of exact meanings held by the highly educated members of gnostic schools gave a real history, of what Jesus actually did.

Born in Sydney, Australia, Thiering graduated in 1952 from Sydney University with first class honours in modern languages, was a high school teacher of languages for several years, and then, while caring for her three young children, continued study and research privately. She obtained an external B.D. degree from the University of London, a M.Th. degree from Melbourne College of Divinity, and a Ph.D. degree from Sydney University in 1973.

As a consequence of her research publications in academic journals, she was invited to lecture at Sydney University, at first in the Department of Semitic Studies, then in the School of Divinity (now the Department of Religious Studies) where she continued until her retirement. During this time she was a member of the Board of Studies in Divinity and the Board of Continuing Education, and served for twelve years as a lay member of the NSW Equal Opportunity Tribunal. When her work became known in the USA, she was made a Fellow of the Jesus Seminar.

In 1990 a documentary film about her research, Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls, was shown by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

Dr. Thiering's book: Jesus the Man has recently been re-published.
Contents

Academic Reception of her Work

While Thiering's thesis attracted some controversy in the media when Jesus the Man was published in 1990, her ideas have not received acceptance by her academic peers. In a response to a letter Thiering wrote to The New York Review of Books, objecting to a review by Geza Vermes, Vermes gave his personal estimation of the academic reaction to her work:

"Professor Barbara Thiering's reinterpretation of the New Testament, in which the married, divorced, and remarried Jesus, father of four, becomes the "Wicked Priest" of the Dead Sea Scrolls, has made no impact on learned opinion. Scroll scholars and New Testament experts alike have found the basis of the new theory, Thiering's use of the so-called "pesher technique", without substance."

(The New York Review of Books, December 1st, 1994)

In 1993 Nicholas Thomas Wright, now Bishop of Durham, wrote:[2]

It is safe to say that no serious scholar has given this elaborate and fantastic theory any credence whatsoever. It is nearly ten years since it was published; the scholarly world has been able to take a good look at it: and the results are totally negative.


Historian Dr. C.B. Forbes from the Department of Ancient History of Macquarie University says "No reputable historian agrees with her identifications between people in the Scrolls and people in the New Testament, or believes in her "hidden history". Here she is utterly out on her own...Dr. Thiering's ideas have no historical credibility."[3]

In 2005 Peter Flint, Professor of Religious Studies and Co-Director of the Dead Sea Scrolls Institute at Trinity Western University in British Columbia, wrote:[4]

"Her views and theories on Jesus and Christian origins have little basis in the scrolls, and even less in the New Testament. Her pesher technique misuses the concept of pesher, her datings of the scrolls are suspect and seem informed by an outside agenda, the connections she draws between Qumran and other nearby communities in the Judean Desert are highly questionable, and the links she finds between the scrolls and the New Testament are almost always without foundation."

David Guyatt
03-24-2009, 10:08 PM
Barbara Theiring is a local DSS scholar who has written extensively on the interpretation of the DSS. She makes a far better case for real history than does the bible or church.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Man-Interpretation-Dead-Scrolls/dp/0552139505

I believe a lot of her work can still be found on scribd.com. I think she was another maverick as was John Allegro who is becoming more vindicated as more of the scrolls are being published. Sex, drugs and ancient rock n roll! People never change.

I agree with much of Theiring's opinions but anything contrary to the rubbish that has been handed down by the church is kept as quiet as possible. A trillion dollar per year industry doesn't go away overnight but now there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

just so we understand who we;re talking about and the other side of the story (and what appears to be peer review)....

Barbara Thiering
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Barbara Thiering (born 1930) is an Australian nonfiction writer, historian, and Biblical exegete specializing in the origins of the early Christian Church. In books and journal articles, she challenges Christian orthodoxy, drawing on claimed new evidence that gives alternative answers to its supernatural beliefs. Her analysis has been rejected by many scholars in the field.

From her speciality, studying the Dead Sea Scrolls, their semiotics, and their hermeneutics, she has propounded a theory arguing that the miracles, including the Turning water into wine, the Virgin Birth, Healing a man at a distance, the man who had been thirty-eight years at the pool, and the Resurrection, among others, did not actually occur (as miracles), as Christians believe, nor were they legends, as some skeptics hold, but were "deliberately constructed myths"[1] concealing (yet, to certain initiates, relating) esoteric historic events. She alleges that they never actually happened (that is, that the events they chronicle were not at all miraculous), as the authors of the Gospels knew. They wrote, according to the methods of pesher, which she discovers in the scrolls, on two levels. For the “babes in Christ,” there were apparent miracles, but the knowledge of exact meanings held by the highly educated members of gnostic schools gave a real history, of what Jesus actually did.

Born in Sydney, Australia, Thiering graduated in 1952 from Sydney University with first class honours in modern languages, was a high school teacher of languages for several years, and then, while caring for her three young children, continued study and research privately. She obtained an external B.D. degree from the University of London, a M.Th. degree from Melbourne College of Divinity, and a Ph.D. degree from Sydney University in 1973.

As a consequence of her research publications in academic journals, she was invited to lecture at Sydney University, at first in the Department of Semitic Studies, then in the School of Divinity (now the Department of Religious Studies) where she continued until her retirement. During this time she was a member of the Board of Studies in Divinity and the Board of Continuing Education, and served for twelve years as a lay member of the NSW Equal Opportunity Tribunal. When her work became known in the USA, she was made a Fellow of the Jesus Seminar.

In 1990 a documentary film about her research, Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls, was shown by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

Dr. Thiering's book: Jesus the Man has recently been re-published.
Contents

Academic Reception of her Work

While Thiering's thesis attracted some controversy in the media when Jesus the Man was published in 1990, her ideas have not received acceptance by her academic peers. In a response to a letter Thiering wrote to The New York Review of Books, objecting to a review by Geza Vermes, Vermes gave his personal estimation of the academic reaction to her work:

"Professor Barbara Thiering's reinterpretation of the New Testament, in which the married, divorced, and remarried Jesus, father of four, becomes the "Wicked Priest" of the Dead Sea Scrolls, has made no impact on learned opinion. Scroll scholars and New Testament experts alike have found the basis of the new theory, Thiering's use of the so-called "pesher technique", without substance."

(The New York Review of Books, December 1st, 1994)

In 1993 Nicholas Thomas Wright, now Bishop of Durham, wrote:[2]

It is safe to say that no serious scholar has given this elaborate and fantastic theory any credence whatsoever. It is nearly ten years since it was published; the scholarly world has been able to take a good look at it: and the results are totally negative.


Historian Dr. C.B. Forbes from the Department of Ancient History of Macquarie University says "No reputable historian agrees with her identifications between people in the Scrolls and people in the New Testament, or believes in her "hidden history". Here she is utterly out on her own...Dr. Thiering's ideas have no historical credibility."[3]

In 2005 Peter Flint, Professor of Religious Studies and Co-Director of the Dead Sea Scrolls Institute at Trinity Western University in British Columbia, wrote:[4]

"Her views and theories on Jesus and Christian origins have little basis in the scrolls, and even less in the New Testament. Her pesher technique misuses the concept of pesher, her datings of the scrolls are suspect and seem informed by an outside agenda, the connections she draws between Qumran and other nearby communities in the Judean Desert are highly questionable, and the links she finds between the scrolls and the New Testament are almost always without foundation."

This is not an area I have knowledge of so I will step with some care.


From her speciality, studying the Dead Sea Scrolls, their semiotics, and their hermeneutics, she has propounded a theory arguing that the miracles, including the Turning water into wine, the Virgin Birth, Healing a man at a distance, the man who had been thirty-eight years at the pool, and the Resurrection, among others, did not actually occur (as miracles), as Christians believe, nor were they legends, as some skeptics hold, but were "deliberately constructed myths"[1] concealing (yet, to certain initiates, relating) esoteric historic events. She alleges that they never actually happened (that is, that the events they chronicle were not at all miraculous), as the authors of the Gospels knew. They wrote, according to the methods of pesher, which she discovers in the scrolls, on two levels. For the “babes in Christ,” there were apparent miracles, but the knowledge of exact meanings held by the highly educated members of gnostic schools gave a real history, of what Jesus actually did.

Her theory strikes me as a very sensible hypothesis and one that is easier to believe for instance, than the reality of the Virgin birth, turning water into wine or the Resurrection etc.

I can easily see why Religious scholars find her theories abhorrent and unacceptable. That's scholars for you - a highly jealous and protective class of individuals who are, imo, less concerned with historical accuracy than with their own elevated place in the order of things.

Never-the-less her views are more than interesting to me and I think she may be getting close to the truth on these matters. Not necessarily the truth itself, but approaching the vicinity of it perhaps.

Kate Story
03-25-2009, 02:07 AM
David, if you call those entries 'peer reviews' you need to do a little background check of these 'peers'. Flint is mormon, Wright is christian and Forbes is christian also. You could hardly expect a glowing review on anything that cast a shadow on orthodox views of the bible and Jesus. The one that made me nearly fall from laughing is Geza Vermes!!!! He was another DSS translator, catholic priests who also left the church and the priesthood. He considered Jesus to be just a Hasidic jewish holy man. Starting to see a pattern here??
I wonder why you should be so concerned about the secular world not agreeing with your views on religion when so many who claim to be christian don't even believe in the divinity of jesus nor that believing is essential for salvation. The following quotes are just a sample of hundreds by 'christian leaders'. I would think you would be more concerned with the dirt around the church's door(rampant child molestation both catholic and protestant with over 800 million dollars paid out in settlements/hush money) and how the world is to understand just exactly what you people do believe when none of you seem to agree at all. If there is a god, he can take care of himself and would hardly need defending by mere weak mortals. BTW, if there is but one true god why are there over 2000 sects of Christianity alone!!

Now back to the true ‘theologians’.
Geza Vermes spoke as part of a panel on religious approaches to truth that also included Swiss Cardinal Georges Cottier, former theologian of the Papal Household under Pope John Paul II.

Vermes devoted his presentation to arguing that on the basis of the New Testament, the image of Jesus that emerges is that of a charismatic, wonder-working Jewish holy man, and thus not the divine Son of God claimed by later Christian tradition.
The Greek-influenced version of Christianity developed by St. Paul and elaborated across centuries of Christian theological reflection, Vermes said, “would have perplexed Jesus the Jew.”

During a group discussion of religious leaders from around the world, held at the Thanksgiving World Assembly in Dallas, Texas, in March of 1999, Cardinal Francis Arinze, President of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, is quoted as follows:
"(A document from the Second Vatican Council) says that God's grant of salvation includes not only Christians, but Jews, Muslims, Hindus and people of good will. That is, a person can be saved, can attain salvation, but on condition that the person is open to God's action. ..." ...
Robert Ashley, news director at Dallas radio station KHVN-AM, asked Cardinal Arinze: "So you can still get to heaven without accepting Jesus?"
Cardinal Arinze answered: "Expressly, yes (he laughs with the audience)."
'If God himself gave freedom', article © March 20, 1999, by Brooks Egerton, staff writer of The Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/), third edition, page 1G.
This is a very interesting situation, where the Vatican is proclaiming itself to be the one true church of Christ, and that all non-Roman Catholic denominations "suffer from defects" and "are not Churches in the proper sense", and other religions "are in a gravely deficient situation", while at the same time they are denying that faith in Jesus Christ is necessary to salvation, that non-Christians can be saved. Truly Amazing!

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org (http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=80888)).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.
Boy!! That is a real doozie!

The Pope made this affirmation today at the general audience, commenting on a meditation written by St. Augustine (354-430).
Normally, “it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour (cf. Ad gentes, nn. 3, 9, 11)” (Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue – Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, Instruction Dialogue and Proclamation (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_19051991_dialogue-and-proclamatio_en.html), 19 May 1991, n. 29; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 1 July 1991, p. III).
Pope John Paul II, General Audience, Wednesday 9 September 1998 (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/1998/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_09091998_en.html)

Bernice Moore
10-01-2009, 08:23 AM
There is no question that this technology exists, and has existed for a very long time.

I wrote the following in 1996 at the request of the International Committee of the Red Cross. I'm quite happy for the entire thing to be posted on this forum but for brevity am linking it HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/some_aspects_pr.htm)

It is a now long out of date and others have carried on the research - one being John J McMurtry who's Remote Behavioral Influence Technology Evidence essay can be read HERE (http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/remote_behavioral_techology_pr.htm)

David, that is a wonderful article! I had read many of those items from research done by others but you have it all in one neat bundle. Thank you for posting the link. You can type in 'Victims of Childhood Mind Control in the 1940's' under any search engine and get some shocking first hand accounts of just how advanced and far back these atrocities are.

None of this is new and is just a continuation of all the ancient mystery schools. The NT speaks of the mysteries and the jesus figure teaches in parables to the common people and tells his chosen followers only they can receive the true knowledge and it will be hidden from all others. If the day ever comes when the complete contents of the Dead Sea Scrolls have been truthfully translated and released the world can clean up the mess that religions have caused. If these evil secret organizations have tainted governments how could any right thinking person be so naive to believe religions were left untainted? Next to governmental control religion is next in line as a tool of human brainwashing and control. The three major Abrahamic religions keep fighting each other and don't have one clue what is really going on or what they are truly worshipping. In 2007 at his Easter sermon Pope Benedict stirred up quite an uproar by declaring that he believed Jesus celebrated passover in the Essene tradition and also that John the Baptist grew up in the Qumrum Essene community. The Essenes were the radical zealot jewish sect that had split from the church at Jerusalem and declared they were the real 'chosen' of god. They were pro-torah law keepers and anti-gentile. That would be why Jesus and his followers referred to non-jews as dogs. I would think from the many controversial statements of the Pope in the last two years, he knows it is a matter of time before the truth will come forth. It is my opinion that to see the beginnings of these secret societies, mind control and 'mystery schools' one needs to look no further than the so-called holy books, especially the KJV of the christian bible. I believe those books are blueprints for these societies and have been followed down through the ages. Apparently, there were as many different secret societies in those days as now. The so-called Apostle Paul had his own thing going and his form of christianity is what is presented today. Many scholars and scroll translators believe he is the "spouter of lies" that the Essenes referred to in some of their scrolls.

here we go, if its not Jew bashing well, what else, its Christian bashing, all wrapped up in intelligentsia. My but the world is full of F-E-A-R

Be nice if you'd post your scholars and scroll translators (whoever in the hell, they are) their cites for your above. Ya wanna sell something other than opinion, provide the goods.

Tnx,
David Healy
...

not POSITIVE if this fits here but the saying "" if you want people to believe a lie, mix a little truth in it.."" comes to mind...why is it in the end so many times the JEWS ARE BLAMED FOR ALL THE ILLS EVENTUALLY THAT SEEM TO PLAGUE PEOPLE..ESPECIALLY ON THE WEB..I HAVE NEVER MET ONE THAT WAS NOT VERY HONEST AND TRUTHFUL AND GREAT TO DO BUSINESS WITH.....YET THEY ARE AND HAVE BEEN AND WILL CONTINUALLY BE BLAMED..IN EVERY OFF SUBJECT DISCUSSION THAT TAKES PLACE WHEN IT COMES TO RELIGION AND OR POLITICS IT APPEARS AT TIMES THAT IS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO I GUESS NOT HAVING A RUSSIAN BEAR TO BLAME ANY LONGER THE MOSLEMS AND JEWS HAVE STEPPED UP TO THE FRONT..THOUGH UNWILLINGLY I AM SURE..IT USED TO BE THE BLACKS THAT WERE ALL CONSUMING TO BLAME IF MEMORY SERVES.I IMAGINE IN SOME AREAS THEY STILL ARE AND OR MEXICANS ALSO..IN OTHERS ....THIS TYPE OF TURNS WITHIN WEB SUBJECTS SUCKS IMO..SORRY BUT THAT IS MO..AND THE REASON SOME LEAVE FORUMS AT TIMES.OR TURN UP LESS AND LESS...:hmmmm2:..IN OTHERWARDS WHO WANTS TO READ THIS KIND OF CRAP..I KNOW THEN DO NOT OPEN THE LINK BUT HOW IS ONE TO KNOW UNLESS THEY DO SO...:ahhhhh:B

Helen Reyes
10-01-2009, 02:21 PM
Re: SoS

Very interesting. The original post's quote confuses ELF and VHF audio and radio, but this is resolved in microwave-induced audio in David's excellent little essay.

Re: Jesus and Qumran

From what I understand of it. both Jesus and John the Baptist were part of the sect that was at Qumran. The Qumran types were both Essenes AND Zadokites, i.e. Sadducees, probably something new and not quite one or the other. The sect that was at Qumran was normally very secretive and protective, while John and Jesus were quite public. Jesus added a large measure of Galilean millenianlism and apocalypse to the mix, although the rehoabitism was endmeic to both the Galilee cults and the sect that was at Qumran, and provides a context to an earlier underground Judaism, prior to Solomon's Temple, that knew its roots were Egyptian and preserved a certain amount of esoterica.

What happened is that Jesus fell out with the sect that was at Qumran, or was excommunicated, for disclosing the mysteries to the uninitiated, or, as the followers of John put it, twisting the truth, i.e., lying. He warped the treasures, the Johannites wrote.

This schism between John the Baptist and Jesus, perhaps post-mortem in essence, can be seen if you read between the lines of the appropriate New Testament passages. GRS Mead's John the Baptizer has more on this. Fortunetaly, the followers of John survive until today and have their own scripture, see Lady Drower's Mandaeans of Iraq and Iran.

Paul's role was initially as infiltrator of the various sects then current on behalf of a nascent novel Jewish orthodoxy working in tandem with the Roman occupation. Qumran had a codename used by the followers to keep the place secret. Pauls' rabbi was involved in rounding up supposedly heretical Aramaic translations of the Book of Job. An Aramaic translation of Job is known from Cave 11 I believe (or Cave 4?) at Qumran. The chances are good Paul was on the way to Qumran, not Damascus, although the Zadokite/Essene group had allegedly fled to Syria before, during times of persecution.

As for the personalities of the Wicked Priest and the Good Teacher and all the rest, it appears they refer to an earlier mass crucifixion of members of a group that was the antecedent to the Qumran Zadokites/Essenes, in Jerusalem, long before Jesus was born.

It's interesting that Pope Ratzinger has made these statements, I was not aware of this. St. Augustine of Hippo's mother was of course Monica the Manichean. St. Augustine was a gnostic until he converted to Roman Christianity. Bishop Pike of the Anglican Church faced a similar kind of dilemma over doctrine in the 1960s, what to tell the Little People concerning the truth of what is in the Bible.

Vermes of course was blamed for suppressing a lot of what the Scrolls Commission did, delaying publication and the whole thing. Edmund Wilson got blamed for sparking controversy where there was none. John Allegro might have been a Methodist, I am not aware of that, but he was the only non-cleric on the Commission, a linguist, and he is usually said to have been non-sectarian or even atheist. He said the Essenes' name came from Sumerian ESSOI, whose meaning I forget. His assertion of an Amanita muscaria cult behind the Scrolls also points back to Egypt, where there is circumstantial evidence for an ancient Amanita cult, although I don't remember him making that connexion in Sacred Mushroom and the Cross.

That the parables were for outsiders while the inner group of believers got the plain truth in Christianity is well known. Morton Smith's discovery of correspondence from Clement of Alexandria concerning the same theme, knowledge for the initiated and denial of facts to outsiders, is only one very small piece of evidence for the fact tht Christianity was composed of an inner and an outer group, i.e. it had an esoteric and exoteric aspect (see his Secret Gospel).

James the Just Jesus's brother doesn't seem to have been a Christian at all, but was coopted for duty later. He was apparently assassinated at the Temple in Jerusalem. The sources say he was High Priest of the Temple in Jeruslaem, which makes zero null no sense if the High Priest ordered Jesus crucified (Antipas or Calaphais or Anaias or whatever his name was, I forget). James would be anathema as the heretic's brother. The Mandaeans confirm that John the Baptist's parents were aged and thought to be sterile when he was conceived. His mother was Elzbieta, Miriam's sister, I think they say. His father was, guess what, one of the High Priests in Jerusalem. The story is an angel heralded John's birth and a star was seen high in the heavens. There is also a story that Zachariah saw an ass in the Temple. That's an old joke and is a way of saying the paternity was in question.

Anyway, that's my take on it, not that I know a whole lot about it.

Ed Jewett
10-01-2009, 05:09 PM
One of the things touted within the world of geriatric medicine is that one should exercise one's mind regularly with crossword puzzles, sudoku, and other left brain/right brain games. Instead, I read the "Deep Politics Forum".

The above is interesting. I'm just getting started with its content. Thanks, David Guyatt, for the links to your articles.

Starting at the top, one could ask whether the patent referred to in the noted thread-leading article is real.

Google answers ( http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=189569 ) "yes", though I haven't opened any of the links:

You can view a copy of US patent # 5,159,703 on the web site of the
U.S. Patent & Trademark Office:

Silent subliminal presentation system
Inventors: Lowery; Oliver M.
Appl. No.: 458339
Filed: December 28, 1989
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,159,703.WKU.&OS=PN/5,159,703&RS=PN/5,159,703

Click on "Images" on the top of that web page, or use this link to
view the 7 pages drawings, specifications, etc.
http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=05159703&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fn ph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526d%3DP ALL%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm%25 26r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526s1%3D5,159,703.WK U.%2526OS%3DPN%2F5,159,703%2526RS%3DPN%2F5,159,703&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=9BAF295BA4AD

Note that to view the images, your web browser must be able to view
TIFF file
http://www.uspto.gov/patft/help/images.htm

If you're using a Macintosh, the QuickTime plug-in reads TIFF files.
If you're using a Windows machine, the Patent & Trademark Office
mentions two free TIFF plug-ins:
Alternatiff
http://www.alternatiff.com/
Internetiff
http://www.internetiff.com/

search strategy:
uspto.gov, searched for patent 5,159,703

I hope this helps.
Clarification of Answer by juggler-ga (http://answers.google.com/answers/ratings/users/2933016935541013412.html) on 11 Apr 2003 23:40 PDT With regards to your "incidental question," here's a seller of subliminal music that claim that its products are used in shopping malls:

"Our subliminal music is currently being successfully used by over forty(40) top corporations internationally."

windmillsofyourmind.com
http://www.windmillsofyourmind.com/##

I note also that I have used HoloSync's "Virtual Audio" meditation-deepening brain-wave technologies; books, monographs and more are available through Centrepointe Research. Listening to the demo of 'virtual audio' is an experience in itself. The purchased "dive" and "immersion" tools, used with very high-end headphones, alters one's brain waves sequentially from beta (normal daily functional brain chatter) to alpha (relaxation, the doorway to the sub-conscious), theta (wherein the creative and problem-solving emerges), and delta (sleep states, including 'awake' delta, like taking a power nap on steroids), and even on to gamma (the place of deep Tibetan Buddhist-type compassion).

In my other 'life', I have also studied the ways in which an individual can take control of his or her own mind and use these same concepts to create their own place of excellence, high creativity and performance. People can be taught to summon their own magic.

So some of this research and inquiry into subliminal technologies ought to be filtered through the research being done in the fields of neuroscience and other cognitive research fields.

With regards to the religious/spiritual/esoteric stuff, I am still in elementary school in my research, but here's one that is of interest, written by Mark Gaffney, a fellow who also dabbles in the 9/11 field of inquiry:

Gnostic Secrets of the Nassenes: The Initiatory Teachings of the Last Supper.

I am not a scholar, haven't been ordained in anything, and can't afford to stay at Holiday Inns, but I did read the book, have written a review of it for Amazon, and find it resonant with my life's experiences, including the peak experiences.

But then maybe someone was pointing one of those Ronald Ray-Guns at me when I had them:

"Who will prefer the jangle of jade beads
if he once has heard stone growing in a cliff?"

##

I may be Jung at heart, but I am also getting 'too soon oldt and too late schmardt'.

Ed Jewett
10-01-2009, 05:31 PM
In quick follow-up to the above:

"...a researcher named Dr. Gerald Oster of Mt. Sinai Medical Center in New York published a paper in Scientific American about research he had been conducting since the 1950s into the effects of sound waves on brain wave patterns"

See the article here:
http://talentdevelop.com/articles/HowHolosyncWorks1.html

An old blog entry of mine here:
http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid=57&showentry=554

Ed Jewett
10-01-2009, 06:27 PM
Wow, David Guyatt, those two articles you linked in by you and McMurtry are stunning ... chilling.

I take note of footnote #153 in McMurtry referencing Brzezinski Z. Between Two Ages: America's Role in the Technetronic Era Viking Press, New York, p 57 & 252, 1970 and the text “The logic in the prediction by Brzezinski[i] of the appearance of a more controlled and directed society dominated by a power elite willing to use the latest modern techniques for influencing behavior without hindrance by liberal democratic values is compelling.153 Potential behavioral influence targets are multiple. Since those supposedly expert regard a victim's perceptions as psychotic, all complaints are disregarded, not to mention capability to bear witness. Targets may include anyone worth neutralization: domestic adversaries;[170] security risks, which may only comprise classified disclosures; persons witnessing serious improprieties; and those prone to committing advantageous felonies. Legality is readily circumvented by executive orders, (particularly declaration of a crisis or emergency situation), which can be sealed, and this prerogative is only accountable to co-equal branches of government as is now the case with terrorism suspects...."



The red emphasis is mine and suggests that these articles also ought to be linked into threads having to do with martial law and the G-20 protests.

And it leads me to ask you (and others) if indeed there is any evidence that this technology is already in the hands of domestic US law enforcement and National Guard, or if it is already embedded into the LRAD technology?

Bernice Moore
10-01-2009, 06:48 PM
thankyou HELEN FOR YOUR INFORMATION, FROM A STUDENT SO INFORMED WITH THE STUDIES OF THE BIBLE, SCROLLS AND....I BELIEVE IT COMES DOWN TO THAT MEN TRANSLATED ALL FOR US AND MEN MAKE MANY ERRORS AS WE ARE ALL AWARE OF.....SO IN THE END ONE HAS A CHOICE TO BELIEVE IN A HIGHER BEING OR NOT..THEREFORE IT IS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL...THOSE THAT HAVE BELIEF AND FAITH IN SUCH WHEN NEEDED HAVE SUCH TO TURN TO THOSE THAT DO NOT HAVE ONLY THEMSELVES.......B..TX

Helen Reyes
10-02-2009, 01:44 PM
thankyou HELEN FOR YOUR INFORMATION, FROM A STUDENT SO INFORMED WITH THE STUDIES OF THE BIBLE, SCROLLS AND....I BELIEVE IT COMES DOWN TO THAT MEN TRANSLATED ALL FOR US AND MEN MAKE MANY ERRORS AS WE ARE ALL AWARE OF.....SO IN THE END ONE HAS A CHOICE TO BELIEVE IN A HIGHER BEING OR NOT..THEREFORE IT IS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL...THOSE THAT HAVE BELIEF AND FAITH IN SUCH WHEN NEEDED HAVE SUCH TO TURN TO THOSE THAT DO NOT HAVE ONLY THEMSELVES.......B..TX

np Bernice, but I'm a complete amateur on the subject. It seems really positive that Ratzinger said these things.