PDA

View Full Version : Indian state to debunk black magic



David Guyatt
12-16-2013, 09:04 AM
An interesting development, I think.

But there are problems with it. Firstly, it is not easy to replace a mindset that has been in situ for thousands of years. It is also virtually impossible to change people's superstitions just by saying so, as we can clearly see in the west today.

Secondly replacing "superstitious" thinking with scientific and secular reason, simply ignores those things that go bang in the night. Pretending they don't happen is a form of repressive thinking, which is psychologically unhealthy. As Jung said: "Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you"




Indian state moves to debunk black magic

Police in Maharashtra get powers to investigate religious fraud, extremism and human sacrifice after death of campaigner



Associated Press in Delhi
theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/), Monday 16 December 2013 08.29 GMT

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/12/16/1387182526660/Indian-hindu-women--008.jpgHindu women at their local temple. Narendra Dabholkar had encouraged villagers to embrace secular and scientific reason. Photograph: Loren Holmes/Alamy

Politicians in western India (http://www.theguardian.com/world/india) have passed a bill aimed at debunking black magic and prosecuting religious charlatans after the death of an activist who campaigned for nearly two decades for the legislation.
Maharashtra is the first state to pass such a measure in multicultural and secular India, where witch doctors and Hindu holy men enjoy huge popularity and can amass millions in tributes from followers or fees for promised miracles and health cures.
The anti-superstition legislation allows police to investigate religious fraud, extremism and human sacrifice.
It was passed over the weekend following an 18-year debate and intense lobbying from Narendra Dabholkar, who was shot on 20 August after receiving death threats for encouraging villagers to embrace secular and scientific reason. Two people were arrested over the killing.

Magda Hassan
12-16-2013, 11:51 AM
I'm all for scientific reasoning and I think it is not taught well or widely enough as so many have no basic understanding of the natural world and the scientific principles and how it works together. It is an excellent way to understand the world. Not that it has all the answers to the questions right now but eventually the questions will be answered using scientific principles. There are gaps in our knowledge. But I mean, for some, the world is only 6,000 years old? Really? And we actually have these people in government in some places and trying to make policies that affect our lives. But there is also a very cult like mindset with some who identify as 'rational' and 'scientific' in their out look including some of the new atheist proponents whose mind seem almost as closed minded and as bigoted as some religious nutters. While too many people are doing crazy things like beheading others, blowing up strangers and mutilating children's genitals or flying planes into buildings because their god told them to it is clear that education is important and urgent. Still, its not a great leap at all to fly a drone and drop bombs on a wedding party because some guy with pretty ribbons and shiny buttons told you to. And think of all the scienctific thinking that went into making that drone from concept, drawing board to manufacturing and the computer system that operates it? What a waste. But still the ignorant and superstitious have always been useful for the powers that be who tend to not believe in god themselves but believe themselves to be gods. An uneducated and fearful populace is easily manipulated by the church and the state. And I do say that there has been policy to make it so and keep it so. Look at the funding by the US of all the crazy madrasses to promote a crazy Islam because of it usefulness in combating the atheistic Soviets? For the same money they could have used the same money to establish a free secular education system and no wars. Well that rooster has come home. But every Gulf Sheik and princeis going to support it because they don't want to give up their privileges either. And look what happens when we accept foreign policy on biblical mythology instead of natural justice and human rights. The fascist Germans get almost all of Europe, after a short stay on the naughty chair, Europe and the US get a beach head in the middle east and and the Palestinians get the shaft and nothing but a refugee camp and a diaspora. It would be better for the Jews and Roma to get Germany and the Palestinians to get their promised independence. The promotion of so called Christian Democratic parties to counter the various socialist parties and the preferential treatment of the church as an ally against socialism in various aspects of public life to the extent that crimes were covered up and children sacrificed to keep the church on side. And then there is the creepy Tony Blair and his front foundation for 'faith'. It is complex....

David Guyatt
12-16-2013, 01:12 PM
My whole take would be objectivity and science but fully drawn from a position of consciousness.

If a scientist is still largely unconscious (and plenty are as we know), or are ruled by their complexes, they are little better than the indian native believing in the witch doctor or ju-ju man. On the other hand, there are witch doctors and ju-ju men who have a broader spectrum of consciousness than many scientists, I think.

Science can't answer all the questions, at least yet, but some are trying hard. It's a case of "there's more things in heaven and earth Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT0uMo_TmiU

Magda Hassan
12-17-2013, 12:07 AM
Yes, a bit (lot?) more enlightenment is needed on all sides.


My whole take would be objectivity and science but fully drawn from a position of consciousness.

If a scientist is still largely unconscious (and plenty are as we know), or are ruled by their complexes, they are little better than the indian native believing in the witch doctor or ju-ju man. On the other hand, there are witch doctors and ju-ju men who have a broader spectrum of consciousness than many scientists, I think.

Science can't answer all the questions, at least yet, but some are trying hard. It's a case of "there's more things in heaven and earth Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.