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Carsten Wiethoff
08-19-2009, 06:40 AM
Why I go overtly

When I told my wife that I joined a forum about secret politics which requires that you give your real name, she was worried. Anybody can find parts of what I think just by googling my name. As someone currently working in the aerospace/defense industry this could become an issue with my employer. It could make my friends and collegues react strangely. People could award me the title “Conspiracy Theorist”.
So be it.

To just state a few facts here:
I have never in my life had suicidal tendencies and I hope I never will.
I don’t have a weapon. If I get shot or stabbed or poisoned with Polonium it will not be a random event.
If I develop cancer or a heart desease, I pray that it’s from working too much.
If they find drugs with me, it’s laughable.
If I will ever fly an airplane into a building, I will not be on board.
Besides all that, I lead a normal life, and I want it to stay that way.
By giving my name I could get on a list. With my record of google searches and my amazon wishlist I am already on that list. Now everybody can find my name on that list, and that makes the difference. If something happens to me, there will be reason to be suspicious. And besides, there are some people around here that understand exactly what I mean. I am happy to be here.

19.8.2009 Carsten Wiethoff

Ed Jewett
08-20-2009, 05:57 AM
Why I go overtly

... there are some people around here that understand exactly what I mean. I am happy to be here.

19.8.2009 Carsten Wiethoff

Welcome, Carsten... tip o' the cap to you.

I'm on the list .. have been for decades... happens when you speak out publicly... I share some of your concerns, but then I've already had the heart problems and although that tried to kill me (and did, for 3 minutes), on the whole it failed miserably.

I am happy to be here too...

So I write on....

I'd recommend reading "The Denial of Death"; it explains a lot about why things are going down the way they are. So embrace your mortality, and make your time here count for something and someone.

Breathe deeply, smile, laugh, dance,
make love to someone, empower someone,
and other things that infuriate them,
and tell them to :reddy:.

Peter Presland
08-20-2009, 10:11 AM
A belated welcome from me too Carsten. Your post rung a few bells.

As George Orwell said, 'In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' eh? - and it is indeed a sobering exercise to consider the fate of pretty well ALL revolutionaries through the ages. To the extent they pose a credible threat to established power structures (ie attract attention) they tend to be dealt with accordingly. In practice that ranges from social ostracism, through petty harassment and a stalled career right up to and including a premature meeting with ones maker.

I too 'took the Red pill', so to speak, relatively recently - maybe 6 or so years ago. Anyone interested can get a flavour of how it developed from my now more-or-less redundant blog. (http://sabretache.blogspot.com/2007/02/new-start.html#links)

I didn't know Ed was an Ernest Becker fan. Me too and I heartily endorse his 'Denial of Death' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Denial-Death-Free-Press-Paperback/dp/0684832402/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250761739&sr=1-1) recommendation. Also 'Escape from Evil' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Escape-Evil-Ernest-Becker/dp/0029024501/ref=pd_sim_b_3) which is shorter but a summation of all his writings and published postumously. There is considerable 'Jungian' expertise on this forum. In my view, Becker builds on Jung in a thoroughly accessible fashion and to the point almost of a fulfillment of the Freud-Jung continuum. Some find his stuff pretty bleak with its ruthlessly honest probing and exposing of core personal motivations; I found it marvellously liberating - the very embodiment of that hoary old biblical cliché, 'the truth will set you free', in fact, except that it does not require blind faith in anything.

Carsten Wiethoff
08-20-2009, 11:30 AM
Thanks Peter.
Your quote reminded me that someone wrote "Work will make you free." ("Arbeit macht frei"). I think that is a clever lie.
Carsten

Peter Presland
08-30-2009, 07:25 PM
I didn't know Ed was an Ernest Becker fan. Me too and I heartily endorse his 'Denial of Death' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Denial-Death-Free-Press-Paperback/dp/0684832402/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250761739&sr=1-1) recommendation. Also 'Escape from Evil' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Escape-Evil-Ernest-Becker/dp/0029024501/ref=pd_sim_b_3) which is shorter but a summation of all his writings and published postumously. There is considerable 'Jungian' expertise on this forum. In my view, Becker builds on Jung in a thoroughly accessible fashion and to the point almost of a fulfillment of the Freud-Jung continuum. Some find his stuff pretty bleak with its ruthlessly honest probing and exposing of core personal motivations; I found it marvellously liberating - the very embodiment of that hoary old biblical cliché, 'the truth will set you free', in fact, except that it does not require blind faith in anything.

Oops.Hope nobody got the wrong idea there.

I've just found out that the above is chiseled in stone in the entrance Hall of the CIA's Langley HQ.

Duh.

Is that REALLY true?

Ed Jewett
08-30-2009, 07:51 PM
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3108/yeshalluploadau3.jpg

No harm done, though ...

Myra Bronstein
08-31-2009, 03:15 AM
Related thread here:
http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2053

Myra Bronstein
08-31-2009, 04:12 AM
Why I go overtly

When I told my wife that I joined a forum about secret politics which requires that you give your real name, she was worried. Anybody can find parts of what I think just by googling my name. As someone currently working in the aerospace/defense industry this could become an issue with my employer. It could make my friends and collegues react strangely. People could award me the title “Conspiracy Theorist”.
So be it.

To just state a few facts here:
I have never in my life had suicidal tendencies and I hope I never will.
I don’t have a weapon. If I get shot or stabbed or poisoned with Polonium it will not be a random event.
If I develop cancer or a heart desease, I pray that it’s from working too much.
If they find drugs with me, it’s laughable.
If I will ever fly an airplane into a building, I will not be on board.
Besides all that, I lead a normal life, and I want it to stay that way.
By giving my name I could get on a list. With my record of google searches and my amazon wishlist I am already on that list. Now everybody can find my name on that list, and that makes the difference. If something happens to me, there will be reason to be suspicious. And besides, there are some people around here that understand exactly what I mean. I am happy to be here.

19.8.2009 Carsten Wiethoff

Thanks for posting this Carsten. When I first joined JFK discussion forums I was ambivalent about the requirement to use first names. I still am. I can understand the stated reasons, yet I don't know if the stated reasons are the actual reasons (excepting this forum). There are clear pros and cons.

So I'm curious, if people were starting a deep politics type/JFK forum today with no precedent of using real names and it could be run however you'd like, would you opt to use real names or not?

Myra Bronstein
08-31-2009, 04:15 AM
I didn't know Ed was an Ernest Becker fan. Me too and I heartily endorse his 'Denial of Death' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Denial-Death-Free-Press-Paperback/dp/0684832402/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250761739&sr=1-1) recommendation. Also 'Escape from Evil' (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Escape-Evil-Ernest-Becker/dp/0029024501/ref=pd_sim_b_3) which is shorter but a summation of all his writings and published postumously. There is considerable 'Jungian' expertise on this forum. In my view, Becker builds on Jung in a thoroughly accessible fashion and to the point almost of a fulfillment of the Freud-Jung continuum. Some find his stuff pretty bleak with its ruthlessly honest probing and exposing of core personal motivations; I found it marvellously liberating - the very embodiment of that hoary old biblical cliché, 'the truth will set you free', in fact, except that it does not require blind faith in anything.

Oops.Hope nobody got the wrong idea there.

I've just found out that the above is chiseled in stone in the entrance Hall of the CIA's Langley HQ.

Duh.

Is that REALLY true?

:D

What it actually says at Langley is "the truthiness will set you freeiness."

Ed Jewett
08-31-2009, 05:24 AM
I appreciate both sides of this question. Anonymity has its obvious benefits, and using one's name has its obvious drawbacks. But there is something to be said for authenticity, for standing up for what you believe in, or standing out for what you stand against.

Earlier today I ran across these tidbits, from Philip Zimbardo's "Situationist Perspective on the Psychology of Evil: Understanding How Good People Are transformed Into Perpetrators":

Environmental Anonymity Breeds Vandalism.
It is possible for certain environments to convey a sense of anonymity on those who live or behave in their midst. Where that happens, the people living there do not have a sense of community. Vandalism and graffiti may be interpreted as an individual's attempt for public notoriety in a society that deindividuates them. ...…

[E]nvironmental, societal conditions [may] contribute to making some members of society feel that they are anonymous, that no one knows who they are, that no one recognizes their individuality and thus their humanity, makes them …."


“Please consider this Zimbardo homily that captures the essence of the difference between dispositional and situational orientations: “While a few bad apples might spoil the barrel (filled with good fruit/people), a vinegar barrel will always transform sweet cucumbers into sour pickles -- regardless of the best intentions, resilience, and genetic nature of those cucumbers.” So does it make more sense to spend resources to identify, isolate and destroy bad apples or to understand how vinegar works, and teach cucumbers how to avoid undesirable vinegar barrels?”

Magda Hassan
08-31-2009, 07:27 AM
An excellent point Ed! Thanks so much for this.

Peter Presland
08-31-2009, 07:37 AM
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3108/yeshalluploadau3.jpg

No harm done, though ...
Thanks Ed

The full inscription, in stone at the OHB (Original HQ Building) entrance is:

"And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" - John 8:32.

It was placed there at the insistence of Allen Dulles of all people (Son of a Presbyterian Minister no less). Apparently it was referred to in his speech at the dedication ceremony of the OHB and has become the Agency's motto.

Jesus, when you consider what the CIA has been and is involved in, is that sick or what?

Maybe I'd better watch my lip eh? - potential 'enemy of the State' or some such classification on their infinite scale of enemies/dupes/patsies etc - and the UK does have this grossly one-sided extradition treaty with its masters. :eek:

Myra Bronstein
08-31-2009, 08:09 AM
...
It was placed there at the insistence of Allen Dulles of all people (Son of a Presbyterian Minister no less)...

Son of a lotta things.


...
Apparently it was referred to in his speech at the dedication ceremony of the OHB and has become the Agency's motto.

Presumably he was making air quotes with his fingers when he said it.

Magda Hassan
08-31-2009, 08:15 AM
...
It was placed there at the insistence of Allen Dulles of all people (Son of a Presbyterian Minister no less)...

Son of a lotta things.


...
Apparently it was referred to in his speech at the dedication ceremony of the OHB and has become the Agency's motto.

Presumably he was making air quotes with his fingers when he said it.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Carsten Wiethoff
09-13-2009, 07:14 PM
Greetings to everybody, I am just back from my vacation which could also be described as an emergency break. I was really a bit over the top, when I left, but three weeks with my family and friends and without internet (deliberately) made me much more calm. But I am also much more determined.

First of all, Happy Birthday to the forum!

Second, yes, meanwhile I am a billionaire. The mailing from Singapore arrived while I was away, but it remained safely in my mailbox. I will detail this in the appropriate thread later.

Third, to the question of anonymity versus using your name. I have thought alot about this in my vacation and I have also noticed that in Germany the "Datenschutzbeauftragte" (person taking care of data security issues) warned on TV against using your real name on the internet, for privacy reasons.
I was also asked by a friend why I think that this warning was issued, and spontaneously I answered that the authorities are afraid of the liberating effect of speaking out the truth openly. That was based on my own experience. Meanwhile I see other reasons also. It is really the second oldest trick in the book of secrecy to use code names, and the reason is that even if the message is read, it cannot be fully understood without the correct assignment of the code names. On an internet forum I feel that a message can also not be fully understood, if the reader does not know, who has written it, what is the background of that person and what other material that person has produced. Without the availability of that information a statement by Posner would be indistinguishable from a statement of P.D.Scott and every statement would have to be analyzed without context.
Of course there is a risk. Standing up against a criminal system is supposed to be risky. Standing up under a pseudonym does not protect you from that risk, but it limits the effectiveness of your action and it eliminates the possible protection from being a publicly known enemy of that system. The more publicly known opponents are attacked, the more people will realize that there is indeed a criminal system at work, desperately trying to suppress the reality to enter the consciousness of the masses.
More later.
Carsten

Myra Bronstein
09-13-2009, 08:09 PM
Greetings to everybody, I am just back from my vacation which could also be described as an emergency break. I was really a bit over the top, when I left, but three weeks with my family and friends and without internet (deliberately) made me much more calm. But I am also much more determined.
...

Welcome back Carsten. We were wondering where you were.


...
First of all, Happy Birthday to the forum!
...

Thank you!



...
Third, to the question of anonymity versus using your name.
...
Of course there is a risk. Standing up against a criminal system is supposed to be risky. Standing up under a pseudonym does not protect you from that risk, but it limits the effectiveness of your action and it eliminates the possible protection from being a publicly known enemy of that system. The more publicly known opponents are attacked, the more people will realize that there is indeed a criminal system at work, desperately trying to suppress the reality to enter the consciousness of the masses.
More later.
Carsten

Appreciate the input. And looking forward to the "more later."

Ed Jewett
09-14-2009, 02:11 AM
On an internet forum I feel that a message can also not be fully understood, if the reader does not know, who has written it, what is the background of that person and what other material that person has produced.

Of course there is a risk. Standing up against a criminal system is supposed to be risky. Standing up under a pseudonym does not protect you from that risk, but it limits the effectiveness of your action and it eliminates the possible protection from being a publicly known enemy of that system. The more publicly known opponents are attacked, the more people will realize that there is indeed a criminal system at work, desperately trying to suppress the reality to enter the consciousness of the masses.
Carsten

Welcome back, Carsten. The first paragraph of yours which I have quoted is quite similar to what I have said about the subject on another forum. The use of a pseudonym masks that vital background. The same would be true if I encountered another on a street wearing a costume or mask or not having some recognizable prior identity. Another factor in this discussion is authenticity. A third is the phenomenon of "being a witness", made famous in many places but notably in the film of the same name. It is difficult to be seen taking a stance when one's persona is partially hidden. But then I think part of the strategy used by those we stand against is to break down or demean 'self' and individual identity and to mask their policy or approach as the desire of the mass of people who do not speak out. In a discusison elsewhere about 9/11 and the current mess in Afghanistan, I was told I needed to prove allegations of statist complicity in the crimes because such attitudes went against the "conventional wisdom", which surely is some amorphous mass of perspective held by anonymous commentators.

I am Ed Jewett, and I approved this message.

Magda Hassan
09-14-2009, 03:01 AM
'conventional wisdom' is right up there with 'the invisible hand of the market' and 'manifest destiny' and western 'exceptionalism' Total BS. My conventional wisdom is certainly different to the states and all those anonymous amorphous commentators out there.