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Carsten Wiethoff
08-20-2009, 11:23 AM
Germany has a FOIA law (Informationsfreiheitsgesetz).
Did you know that?
I did not. I am living in Germany for all my life. Maybe I am underinformed.

The CDU/CSU opposed it and tried to kill it ever since. Maybe something to consider in the upcoming elections. But there are no parties anyway worth voting for, don't you think?
But wait, there is http://www.pp-international.net/.
Check it out.
:bandit:

Magda Hassan
08-20-2009, 12:06 PM
Yes, most FOI is a well kept secret least people actually find out about it and, god forbid, use it. When it is not the possessive pedantic bureaucrats resentful of an outsider coming in to their territory it is the extortionate fees in some places which make it very expensive to actually exercise the right to this information. It is perhaps better called 'Freedom From Information'. I do wish there were much more openness and transparency in all parts of public life and business life.

Peter Lemkin
08-20-2009, 01:29 PM
Germany has a FOIA law (Informationsfreiheitsgesetz).
Did you know that?
I did not. I am living in Germany for all my life. Maybe I am underinformed.

The CDU/CSU opposed it and tried to kill it ever since. Maybe something to consider in the upcoming elections. But there are no parties anyway worth voting for, don't you think?
But wait, there is http://www.pp-international.net/.
Check it out.
:bandit:

As I've been working on a book on the some secret aspects of the end of WW2 and the occupation afterwards, I wonder if those documents are included - any idea how far back this act claims to provide documents for? - although many are Allied Occupation documents and captured Nazi documents, granted [some not yet returned to Germany - some have been]. It does appear to me that certain matters have been 'sanitized' on both sides - all sides. FOIA used to work (poorly) in the USA - then under Bush it almost stopped working. I've not heard if it has changed under Obama.

Peter Presland
08-20-2009, 01:45 PM
Yes, most FOI is a well kept secret least people actually find out about it and, god forbid, use it.

And if people do set about using it effectively, well, officialdom will fall back on the sort of tactics used against Craig Murray (ex-UK ambassador to Uzbekistan) to sanitise his book 'Murder in Samarkand'. Back in 2005 Craig was still battling with the UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office over the contents of the book. He had made extensive use of the FoI Act to obtain documents relating to his dismissal as Ambassador and had posted them on his blog. Now, get this: He was forced to remove some of the documents because, in spite of them having been released to him under freedom of information legislation, the FCO still claimed copyright over them. Not only did they refuse permission to publish them, they threatened legal action which Craig was advised could easily bankrupt him to defend. QED.

Craig tells the story briefly here (http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/documents/docs.html). At the time I forwarded them to both Cryptome and Wikileaks but the book had to be published without them because of that threat. You really couldn't make this up could you?

Jan Klimkowski
08-20-2009, 06:03 PM
Yes, most FOI is a well kept secret least people actually find out about it and, god forbid, use it.

And if people do set about using it effectively, well, officialdom will fall back on the sort of tactics used against Craig Murray (ex-UK ambassador to Uzbekistan) to sanitise his book 'Murder in Samarkand'. Back in 2005 Craig was still battling with the UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office over the contents of the book. He had made extensive use of the FoI Act to obtain documents relating to his dismissal as Ambassador and had posted them on his blog. Now, get this: He was forced to remove some of the documents because, in spite of them having been released to him under freedom of information legislation, the FCO still claimed copyright over them. Not only did they refuse permission to publish them, they threatened legal action which Craig was advised could easily bankrupt him to defend. QED.

Craig tells the story briefly here (http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/documents/docs.html). At the time I forwarded them to both Cryptome and Wikileaks but the book had to be published without them because of that threat. You really couldn't make this up could you?

:joyman:

Kafka's grey and labyrinthine corridors of power being traversed by the C21st ruling elites to protect Their filthy secrets and lies...


Someone must have traduced Joseph K., for without having done anything wrong he was arrested one fine morning.