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Peter Lemkin
08-27-2009, 06:09 PM
Conspiracy theorists rejoice: Prized 'moon rock' in Dutch national museum is a fake
'Moon rock' in Dutch museum is just petrified wood
By TOBY STERLING | Associated Press | 2 hours, 30 minutes ago

It's not green cheese, but it might as well be.

In this photo released by the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam on Thursday, Aug. 27, 2009, a rock supposedly brought back from the moon, and a note from the then-U.S. ambassador is seen. The Dutch national museum... (Associated Press)

The Dutch national museum said Thursday that one of its prized possessions, a rock supposedly brought back from the moon by U.S. astronauts, is just a piece of petrified wood.

Rijksmuseum spokeswoman Xandra van Gelder, who oversaw the investigation that proved the piece was a fake, said the museum will keep it anyway as a curiosity.

"It's a good story, with some questions that are still unanswered," she said. "We can laugh about it."

The museum acquired the rock after the death of former Prime Minister Willem Drees in 1988. Drees received it as a private gift on Oct. 9, 1969 from then-U.S. ambassador J. William Middendorf during a visit by the three Apollo 11 astronauts, part of their "Giant Leap" goodwill tour after the first moon landing.

Middendorf, who lives in Rhode Island, told Dutch broadcaster NOS news that he had gotten it from the U.S. State Department, but couldn't recall the exact details.

"I do remember that (Drees) was very interested in the little piece of stone," the NOS quoted Middendorf as saying. "But that it's not real, I don't know anything about that."

He could not immediately be reached for comment Thursday.

The U.S. Embassy in the Hague said it was investigating the matter.

The museum had vetted the moon rock with a phone call to NASA, Van Gelder said.

She said the space agency told the museum then that it was possible the Netherlands had received a rock: NASA gave moon rocks to more than 100 countries in the early 1970s, but those were from later missions.

"Apparently no one thought to doubt it, since it came from the prime minister's collection," Van Gelder said.

The rock is not usually on display; the museum is primarily known for its paintings and other works of fine art by masters such as Rembrandt.

A jagged fist-size stone with reddish tints, it was mounted and placed above a plaque that said, "With the compliments of the Ambassador of the United States of America ... to commemorate the visit to The Netherlands of the Apollo-11 astronauts." The plaque does not specify that the rock came from the moon's surface

It was given at the opening of an exhibition on space exploration.

It was on show in 2006 and a space expert informed the museum it was unlikely NASA would have given away any moon rocks three months after Apollo returned to Earth.

Researchers from Amsterdam's Free University said they could see at a glance the rock was probably not from the moon. They followed the initial appraisal up with extensive testing.

"It's a nondescript, pretty-much-worthless stone," Geologist Frank Beunk concluded in an article published by the museum.

He said the rock, which the museum at one point insured for more than half a million dollars, was worth no more than euro50 ($70).

Van Gelder said one important unanswered question is why Drees was given the stone. He was 83 years old in 1969 and had been out of office for 11 years. On the other hand, he was the country's elder statesman, the prime minister who helped the Netherlands rebuild after World War II.

Middendorf was treasurer of the Republic National Committee from 1965 until 1969, when President Richard Nixon dispatched him to the Netherlands.

Jan Klimkowski
08-27-2009, 08:05 PM
Shawshank Redemption - Andy's in the infirmary after being abused by the "sisters", and Red and the cons are looking to find him some rocks suitable for carving into chess pieces



79 EXT -- FIELD -- DAY (1949) 79

A HUNDRED CONS at work. Hoes rise and fall in long waves.
GUARDS patrol on horseback. Heywood turns up a rocky chunk,
quickly shoves it down his pants. He maneuvers to Red and the
others, pulls out the chunk and shows it to them.

FLOYD
That ain't quartz. Nor limestone.

HEYWOOD
What are you, fuckin' geologist?

SNOOZE
He's right, it ain't.

HEYWOOD
What the hell is it then?

RED
Horse apple.

HEYWOOD
Bullshit.

RED
No, horse shit. Petrified.

Cackling, the men go back to work. Heywood stares at the rock.
He crumbles it in his hands.

Peter Lemkin
08-28-2009, 05:40 AM
The implications are rather amazing, and I guess every receipient of a moon-rock will now start testing them. Most all were given encased in plexiglass with a plaque and seal of the USA w/flag. It was once insured for 2 million...and is worth 2 cents - if that!......hmmmm.... Hey, Jack, maybe you were right.

Myra Bronstein
08-28-2009, 08:08 AM
The implications are rather amazing, and I guess every receipient of a moon-rock will now start testing them. Most all were given encased in plexiglass with a plaque and seal of the USA w/flag. It was once insured for 2 million...and is worth 2 cents - if that!......hmmmm.... Hey, Jack, maybe you were right.

I'm agnostic on the veracity of the moon landings. But I would LOVE it if this incident spurred more "moon rock" testing and they proved fraudulent. It's my domino theory--if one whopper is exposed maybe people will open their minds to others.

Back to reality, the mainstream media would probably refuse to report a wide spreak moon rock dubunking.

Peter Lemkin
08-28-2009, 09:16 AM
The implications are rather amazing, and I guess every receipient of a moon-rock will now start testing them. Most all were given encased in plexiglass with a plaque and seal of the USA w/flag. It was once insured for 2 million...and is worth 2 cents - if that!......hmmmm.... Hey, Jack, maybe you were right.

I'm agnostic on the veracity of the moon landings. But I would LOVE it if this incident spurred more "moon rock" testing and they proved fraudulent. It's my domino theory--if one whopper is exposed maybe people will open their minds to others.

Back to reality, the mainstream media would probably refuse to report a wide spreak moon rock dubunking.

This is not a subject I've labored on, but my educated guess is that there were some real and some not real missions. I'm a professional mineral collector and mineralogist and it is quite easy [if expensive!] to test if a rock is terrestrial or not [meteor, moon-rock, other]. I'm also aware from mineral shows that very small pieces of rock represented as moon-rock get prices in the many millions. I fear many have been had....but that an Ambassador, who presumably got the sample from NASA, was passing a fake [likely unaware of this fact]......is really amazing! Many museums must be quite alarmed today, and authorizing the appropriate tests! I do believe some samples have proven to be non-terrestrial - although some non-terrestrial rock does come down to Earth naturally - meteorites, for example. Another indication on meteorites are ages older than the Earth. I have one such in my collection. It hardened from molten form about 1 billion years before Earth did.

Magda Hassan
08-28-2009, 09:30 AM
Well, it is bad form too treating your 'good friends' like that though I expect that Ambassador himself had no idea. I wonder if all the other countries that received 'moon rocks' will test theirs? It's like Richard Burton buying Liz Taylor a zircon for an engagement ring and passing it off as the Hope Star.

Peter Lemkin
08-28-2009, 10:07 AM
Well, it is bad form too treating your 'good friends' like that though I expect that Ambassador himself had no idea. I wonder if all the other countries that received 'moon rocks' will test theirs? It's like Richard Burton buying Liz Taylor a zircon for an engagement ring and passing it off as the Hope Star.

It will be interesting to find-out who high in NASA was parceling-out the rocks and the chain-of-evidence, if known. Others are in leading university Geology Departments. They can easily test theirs. What, as a mineralogist, amazes me is that they choose a completely wrong type of rock for this fake....like Burton putting a lump of coal on a ring and trying to pass it off as the Hope Diamond. I think only that they were encased [for the most part] in lucite has kept this silent so far....if others are fakes and are 'official' USG via NASA gifts......a von Braun joke or 'get even'?! Is NOTHING real nor truthful in American anymore?!

Peter Presland
08-28-2009, 11:04 AM
.... It's like Richard Burton buying Liz Taylor a zircon for an engagement ring and passing it off as the Hope Star.
A type of behaviour which over the past half century or so has, with increasing accuracy, come to define "The American Way". Or so it seems to me.

Jack White
08-28-2009, 03:02 PM
The implications are rather amazing, and I guess every receipient of a moon-rock will now start testing them. Most all were given encased in plexiglass with a plaque and seal of the USA w/flag. It was once insured for 2 million...and is worth 2 cents - if that!......hmmmm.... Hey, Jack, maybe you were right.

I'm agnostic on the veracity of the moon landings. But I would LOVE it if this incident spurred more "moon rock" testing and they proved fraudulent. It's my domino theory--if one whopper is exposed maybe people will open their minds to others.

Back to reality, the mainstream media would probably refuse to report a wide spreak moon rock dubunking.

This is not a subject I've labored on, but my educated guess is that there were some real and some not real missions. I'm a professional mineral collector and mineralogist and it is quite easy [if expensive!] to test if a rock is terrestrial or not [meteor, moon-rock, other]. I'm also aware from mineral shows that very small pieces of rock represented as moon-rock get prices in the many millions. I fear many have been had....but that an Ambassador, who presumably got the sample from NASA, was passing a fake [likely unaware of this fact]......is really amazing! Many museums must be quite alarmed today, and authorizing the appropriate tests! I do believe some samples have proven to be non-terrestrial - although some non-terrestrial rock does come down to Earth naturally - meteorites, for example. Another indication on meteorites are ages older than the Earth. I have one such in my collection. It hardened from molten form about 1 billion years before Earth did.

Peter, I did not know of your geological expertise. In recent years
I read that METEORITES FROM THE MOON had been discovered in
Antarctica. Please tell me how...

1. A meteorite would decide to leave the moon and go to earth, and
2. How is it determined that a given meteorite is "from the moon"?

When I read this, my curiosity was aroused.

Jack

PS...anyone interested in my Apollo studies click on:

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html
http://www.aulis.com/skeleton.htm

Peter Presland
08-28-2009, 04:19 PM
PS...anyone interested in my Apollo studies click on:

http://www.aulis.com/jackstudies_index1.html
http://www.aulis.com/skeleton.htm
That's some impressive work Jack. Thanks for posting it.

Frankly I have never taken that much interest in the 'did US astronauts really land on the moon?' thing. Plenty of other crap to be going along with, without opening another can of worms.

My working assumption/hypothesis - held for the purposes of living the consensus trance along with masses of others - has always been that they did. I'm now forced to turn yet another one on its head. :hmpf:

Hey Ho.

Peter Lemkin
08-28-2009, 07:26 PM
[QUOTE=Peter Lemkin;9928]The implications are rather amazing, and I guess every receipient of a moon-rock will now start testing them. Most all were given encased in plexiglass with a plaque and seal of the USA w/flag. It was once insured for 2 million...and is worth 2 cents - if that!......hmmmm.... Hey, Jack, maybe you were right.

I'm agnostic on the veracity of the moon landings. But I would LOVE it if this incident spurred more "moon rock" testing and they proved fraudulent. It's my domino theory--if one whopper is exposed maybe people will open their minds to others.

Back to reality, the mainstream media would probably refuse to report a wide spreak moon rock dubunking.

This is not a subject I've labored on, but my educated guess is that there were some real and some not real missions. I'm a professional mineral collector and mineralogist and it is quite easy [if expensive!] to test if a rock is terrestrial or not [meteor, moon-rock, other]. I'm also aware from mineral shows that very small pieces of rock represented as moon-rock get prices in the many millions. I fear many have been had....but that an Ambassador, who presumably got the sample from NASA, was passing a fake [likely unaware of this fact]......is really amazing! Many museums must be quite alarmed today, and authorizing the appropriate tests! I do believe some samples have proven to be non-terrestrial - although some non-terrestrial rock does come down to Earth naturally - meteorites, for example. Another indication on meteorites are ages older than the Earth. I have one such in my collection. It hardened from molten form about 1 billion years before Earth did.

Peter, I did not know of your geological expertise. In recent years
I read that METEORITES FROM THE MOON had been discovered in
Antarctica. Please tell me how...

1. A meteorite would decide to leave the moon and go to earth, and
2. How is it determined that a given meteorite is "from the moon"?

When I read this, my curiosity was aroused.

Jack

Not just in Antartica, but especially there they have found both meteorites from the Moon and from Mars. Even without going to a planet, one can use spectral analysis of the light from them to know the relative percentages of certain elements. Most are the same range as here on Earth, a few are unique and act like a 'fingerprint' and identify where it is from. They didn't just decide to leave after a fight with the neighbor stones....they were blasted outward during enourmous meteors crashed into Moon/Mars and while most of the rock fell back due to gravity, some was moving fast enough to go into orbit and/or leave the gravitational field of the respective body and later when floating around the solar system fell prey to the gravitational attraction of Earth. Antartic glaciers are especially good at collecting and CONCENTRATING these...one special area - designated 'ALA' has provided hundreds that can be found in most big museums or on the internet.
------------------------------------------
By BBC News Online Science Editor Dr David Whitehouse

A brown stone the size of a coconut has been identified as only the 14th known meteorite from Mars.

It was picked up in the Dar al Gani region of the Libyan Sahara desert last year by an anonymous meteorite hunter.

A 10-gramme section of the rock was supplied by the finder to Dr Luigi Folco, meteorite curator of the Museo Nazionale dell'Antartide of the University of Siena in Italy.

The meteorite was also investigated by Dr Ian Franchi of the UK's Open University, who, through an analysis of oxygen isotopes, identified a unique "Martian signature" in the rock.

Great stress

Mineralogical and petrographic analyses were also carried out by studying thin slices of the rock with optical and more powerful electron microscopes.

"We're quite delighted," said Dr Folco. "It is definitely from Mars. It is quite a find."

The rock shows signs of having been subjected to great stress and intense shocks, probably from the explosion that tore it away from Mars and sent it on a path to Earth about a million years ago.

The announcement of the new find will appear soon in the Bulletin of The Meteoritical Society. It will be designated Dar al Gani 489.

Poor specimen

Unfortunately, it is not a particularly good specimen. It is fairly weathered, has probably been contaminated by terrestrial bacteria and is not particularly suitable to search for evidence of past life.

Early data indicates that Dar al Gani 489 is very similar to the piece of rock that was classified as the 13th Martian meteorite - Dar al Gani 476. Indeed, the two specimens may have been fragments from the same fall.

Scientists think that there could be more Mars rocks in the Libyan desert.

Of 14 rocks now identified as coming from Mars, six have been picked up in the frozen wastes of Antarctica.
-----------------------------------
More than 130 named stones have been described in the scientific literature that appear to be lunar meteorites. Other rocks that have not yet been described in the scientific literature but which might be lunar meteorites are being sold by reputable dealers. The complication is that some to many of these stones are “paired,” that is, two or more of the stones are different fragments of a single meteoroid that made the Moon-Earth trip. When confirmed or strongly suspected cases of pairing are taken into account, the number of actual meteoroids reduces to about 65. Pairing has not yet been established or rejected for the most recently found meteorites, so the actual number is not known with certainty. In the List, known or strongly suspected paired stones are listed on a single line separated by slashes. In most cases, the stones were found close together because a meteoroid broke upon encountering the Earth’s atmosphere, hitting the ground or ice, or while traveling within the ice in Antarctica. (In the other cases, all from northern Africa, we don't know for sure where they were found.) The six LaPaz Icefield stones all have fusion crusts and the broken edges don’t fit together, thus the LAP meteoroid likely broke up in the atmosphere. Among the numerous Dhofar lunar meteorite stones, about 15 appear to all be pieces of a single meteorite.